What would you change about Evangelion?

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Postby LukeMM95 » Sun Dec 14, 2014 9:31 am

View Original Postmechashiva wrote:BUT I wished there just more episodes with happy endings like the Jet Alone episode and ep. 9 where Asuka and Shinji have to put aside their differences temporarily and work together, even if right afterwards they go back to bickering :lol:

I do too. Ep. 9 is one of my personal favourite episodes and that minute long sequence at the end of the two of them working in perfect unison is a thing of beauty. It's a shame we didn't get more episodes where we could see them put that training to good use. The closest thing we got was in Episode 11 where they came up with a battle plan. After that it seems like each Eva battle is nothing but trial and error. This makes sense in the context of the story but a part of me still wishes we got a few more episodes before the more depressing stuff started to happen.

Also a part of me would have loved to see what would have happened if Shinji got to his Unit 01 straight away when the MPE appeared in EoE and he and Asuka fought them together. Of course then, it would be a completely different movie but it would have been one hell of a spectacle. I'm not saying I want to see over-the-top Eva battles like we do in the Rebuild movies but seeing a version of NGE where the two become more skilled pilots over time would have been pretty neat.

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Postby Bagheera » Sun Dec 14, 2014 1:32 pm

View Original PostLukeMM95 wrote:I was under the impression that NGE was on a very tight budget, which is why many of the scenes of people talking either cover the characters' mouths or don't show the characters at all (talking off screen, black silhouettes, etc). And of course, there are the over long pauses where nothing happens like the train station scene, Asuka and Rei in the elevator and Shinji contemplating on whether to kill Kaworu.


Those were all deliberate, and had nothing to do with budget constraints. As I noted above budget wasn't the issue; interviews make it clear that problems with Tatsunoko were the main reason the show has production/quality issues.
For my post-3I fic, go here.
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People's deaths are to be mourned. The ability to save people should be celebrated. Life itself should be exalted. -- Volken Macmani, Tatakau Shisho: The Book of Bantorra
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Yes, I know. You thought it would be something about Asuka. You're such idiots.

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Postby Sicarius VI » Sun Dec 14, 2014 6:48 pm

View Original PostLukeMM95 wrote:Also a part of me would have loved to see what would have happened if Shinji got to his Unit 01 straight away when the MPE appeared in EoE and he and Asuka fought them together. Of course then, it would be a completely different movie but it would have been one hell of a spectacle. I'm not saying I want to see over-the-top Eva battles like we do in the Rebuild movies but seeing a version of NGE where the two become more skilled pilots over time would have been pretty neat.


Well the manga made it so Shinji saves Asuka but with the same result as EOE(that's in vol13) because they get back up and capture Shinji still, the diffrence that Asuka is alive and witnesses this.

If this where to happen in the original EOE, I would say the only diffrence would be that Asuka and Shinji would be on better terms durning HIP.

As for what I would change about Eva, not saying I would've changed this now, because budget restraints are what created EOE. But I would've liked to see what would've happened if they had the money to do the last two episode like they I tented which was a shorter version of EOE from my belief. It would be interesting, in 25 and 26 there are scenes of Ritsuko and Misato dead and they are used in EOE, but I'll be it they are much more creepy in 25 and 26 due to the fact it is just a shot of them dead and no other sound.
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Postby LukeMM95 » Sun Dec 14, 2014 7:27 pm

View Original PostSicarius VI wrote:Well the manga made it so Shinji saves Asuka but with the same result as EOE(that's in vol13) because they get back up and capture Shinji still, the diffrence that Asuka is alive and witnesses this.

If this where to happen in the original EOE, I would say the only diffrence would be that Asuka and Shinji would be on better terms durning HIP.

I've read the manga and if I remember correctly, Shinji still only arrives AFTER Asuka's Unit 02 runs out of power. So he saves her but third impact still happens. I was wondering; what if Shinji wasn't in a state of total depression during EoE and as soon as the MPEs arrived at the GeoFront, he got in his Unit 01 (let's say the Bakelite wasn't a problem) and teamed up with Asuka to kick some ass? Would they have been able to successfully stop them or would the same events still happen?

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Postby Sicarius VI » Sun Dec 14, 2014 8:45 pm

View Original PostLukeMM95 wrote:I've read the manga and if I remember correctly, Shinji still only arrives AFTER Asuka's Unit 02 runs out of power. So he saves her but third impact still happens. I was wondering; what if Shinji wasn't in a state of total depression during EoE and as soon as the MPEs arrived at the GeoFront, he got in his Unit 01 (let's say the Bakelite wasn't a problem) and teamed up with Asuka to kick some ass? Would they have been able to successfully stop them or would the same events still happen?


That is hard to say, granted I would want both of them to win and with Shiniji helping it would be easier on Asuka. If this was in EOE I would believe third Impact would still happen just because it is the way Shinji, Asuka, and Rei come to completing their character arcs and the way Anno put everything into EOE as he did. If not following EOE it seems logical to think that Unit-01 and Unit-02 would over power the MP Evas and also Shinji would make sure the cores are destroyed. That is the one thing Asuka failed to do and the reason why the re-generated.

Either way with Third Impact or HIP or not Shinji and Asuka would have a closer relationship in someway or another, and in Evangelion the story is about human interaction and the characters so that is the a very important aspect. In what way they would bond afterwards I don't know, but even in the Managa when Shinji comes at the end once Asuka has run out of power she is greatful even if teasing him. Also she is screaming his name with tears as he his captured by the MP Evas. Man I wish Sadamanga kept to the EOE ending, but maybe he didn't because he wanted EOE to remain the way it has been.

Reason why I say all of this is because I wish in someway or another Shinji and Asuka's relationship got some closure, which it barly does. Asuka caressing his cheek and her realizing she isn't alone, and also how Shinji stops choking Asuka is the closest thing to any form of closure any will get from NGE.
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Postby LukeMM95 » Mon Dec 15, 2014 3:19 am

View Original PostSicarius VI wrote:Reason why I say all of this is because I wish in someway or another Shinji and Asuka's relationship got some closure, which it barly does. Asuka caressing his cheek and her realizing she isn't alone, and also how Shinji stops choking Asuka is the closest thing to any form of closure any will get from NGE.

A part of me wants that too and I personal believe that after the event of EoE, Shinji and Asuka become very close. They're currently the only two people on Earth (or at least in that area of Japan) and after third impact, they know everything about each other, including their feelings so I imagine they're going to do a lot of talking eventually.

If I was going to alter the ending of EoE, I would have probably had it end with Shinji and Asuka sitting side by side on the beach, looking towards the red sea (similar to the DVD cover) and maybe after a long, awkward pause, the two slowly touch hands. Just something to make the ending seem a little less abrupt and it would also show the hedgehog dilemma between the two has been broken.

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Postby Sicarius VI » Mon Dec 15, 2014 7:12 am

View Original PostLukeMM95 wrote:A part of me wants that too and I personal believe that after the event of EoE, Shinji and Asuka become very close. They're currently the only two people on Earth (or at least in that area of Japan) and after third impact, they know everything about each other, including their feelings so I imagine they're going to do a lot of talking eventually.

If I was going to alter the ending of EoE, I would have probably had it end with Shinji and Asuka sitting side by side on the beach, looking towards the red sea (similar to the DVD cover) and maybe after a long, awkward pause, the two slowly touch hands. Just something to make the ending seem a little less abrupt and it would also show the hedgehog dilemma between the two has been broken.


It's implied by them being there together that has already happened that they already broken the walls between them. Also Asuka's famous last line is just a refrence too what Shinji did in the beginning EOE and also her accepting that fact. But a little more like them getting up or Shinji at least stops crying would've been nice. On the box art it does show them standing up or rather Asuka sitting up and Shinji standing, atleast we can think they get up. A little more would've been nice, I imagine Shinji would protect the fact that someone like Asuka has been attracted to him all along and return the feelings, and Asuka would be glad that she can be strait foward with Shinji instead of doing the around-about flirting that she does through out the show.
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Postby Jäeger » Mon Dec 15, 2014 2:22 pm

View Original PostSicarius VI wrote:
If this where to happen in the original EOE, I would say the only diffrence would be that Asuka and Shinji would be on better terms durning HIP.

.


Her "death" is a key factor in triggering 3I and HIP, so IMO it's fine how it is. Sadamot's choice is the shitty one. "I want to be different than Anno!!!". Congratulations, you are worse writter than him.

But if you wanna know a real EVA 01/02 VS MP fight, there is always the ANIMA path

Oh wait..... :facepalm:
Do american "cool" people know that in Europe only alcoholics and homeless drink wine without food by its side???

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Postby Bagheera » Mon Dec 15, 2014 2:51 pm

Or Genocide. Only serious take on the matter that managed to retain a whiff of plausibility about it.
For my post-3I fic, go here.
The law doesn't protect people. People protect the law. -- Akane Tsunemori, Psycho-Pass
People's deaths are to be mourned. The ability to save people should be celebrated. Life itself should be exalted. -- Volken Macmani, Tatakau Shisho: The Book of Bantorra
I hate myself. But maybe I can learn to love myself. Maybe it's okay for me to be here! That's right! I'm me, nothing more, nothing less! I'm me. I want to be me! I want to be here! And it's okay for me to be here! -- Shinji Ikari, Neon Genesis Evangelion
Yes, I know. You thought it would be something about Asuka. You're such idiots.

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Postby Sicarius VI » Mon Dec 15, 2014 3:04 pm

View Original PostBagheera wrote:Or Genocide. Only serious take on the matter that managed to retain a whiff of plausibility about it.


I read that fanfic over the summer and I have been recently skimming it over. Agreed, but I fail to mention it because of how diffrent the circumstances getting to the End Game in that fic, I mean it makes third impact take place around the middle to beginning end of 2016 when in EOE I believe it was said that it is New Years or that last week in December when it happens(2015 this is).
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Postby Bagheera » Mon Dec 15, 2014 3:17 pm

View Original PostSicarius VI wrote:I read that fanfic over the summer and I have been recently skimming it over. Agreed, but I fail to mention it because of how diffrent the circumstances getting to the End Game in that fic, I mean it makes third impact take place around the middle to beginning end of 2016 when in EOE I believe it was said that it is New Years or that last week in December when it happens(2015 this is).


But that's why it's a decent effort: you can't change the plot of Eva without accounting for the (many) ripple effects that will occur as a result. Rommel did that, or at least made a decent effort at it, and that alone sets him apart from the pact. Everyone else just blows off the plot, and that makes the fic fail right out of the gate.

He's got edits on Chapter 9 up if anyone's interested.
For my post-3I fic, go here.
The law doesn't protect people. People protect the law. -- Akane Tsunemori, Psycho-Pass
People's deaths are to be mourned. The ability to save people should be celebrated. Life itself should be exalted. -- Volken Macmani, Tatakau Shisho: The Book of Bantorra
I hate myself. But maybe I can learn to love myself. Maybe it's okay for me to be here! That's right! I'm me, nothing more, nothing less! I'm me. I want to be me! I want to be here! And it's okay for me to be here! -- Shinji Ikari, Neon Genesis Evangelion
Yes, I know. You thought it would be something about Asuka. You're such idiots.

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Postby Chuckman » Mon Dec 15, 2014 3:36 pm

Sadamoto accidentally managed to capture the same theme as Asuka's murder-rape in EoE but in a more symbolic way.

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Postby Bagheera » Mon Dec 15, 2014 3:44 pm

View Original PostChuckman wrote:Sadamoto accidentally managed to capture the same theme as Asuka's murder-rape in EoE but in a more symbolic way.


How do you mean? I completely missed that.
For my post-3I fic, go here.
The law doesn't protect people. People protect the law. -- Akane Tsunemori, Psycho-Pass
People's deaths are to be mourned. The ability to save people should be celebrated. Life itself should be exalted. -- Volken Macmani, Tatakau Shisho: The Book of Bantorra
I hate myself. But maybe I can learn to love myself. Maybe it's okay for me to be here! That's right! I'm me, nothing more, nothing less! I'm me. I want to be me! I want to be here! And it's okay for me to be here! -- Shinji Ikari, Neon Genesis Evangelion
Yes, I know. You thought it would be something about Asuka. You're such idiots.

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Postby Chuckman » Mon Dec 15, 2014 3:47 pm

Rather than the more ritualistic sacrifice of the television show stealing Asuka's solar warrior-goddess force, that force is transferred to Shinji in the manga as he stands over and "rescues" her. Sadamoto is unconsciously reasserting Shinji's gender role just before 3I. The whole manga is a passive aggressive snipe at anime-Shinji being a pussy, really.

He clearly doesn't like or understand Asuka as a character.

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Postby Bagheera » Mon Dec 15, 2014 4:17 pm

View Original PostChuckman wrote:Rather than the more ritualistic sacrifice of the television show stealing Asuka's solar warrior-goddess force, that force is transferred to Shinji in the manga as he stands over and "rescues" her. Sadamoto is unconsciously reasserting Shinji's gender role just before 3I. The whole manga is a passive aggressive snipe at anime-Shinji being a pussy, really.

He clearly doesn't like or understand Asuka as a character.


Ah, I see. Yeah, that does make sense. People see Asuka's fate in EoE and are bummed out vs. being enlightened, which says much about both the work and them. Once you understand what's going on you see that it can hardly be any other way without cheapening her character (though Genocide narrowly avoided this, gods bless it).
For my post-3I fic, go here.
The law doesn't protect people. People protect the law. -- Akane Tsunemori, Psycho-Pass
People's deaths are to be mourned. The ability to save people should be celebrated. Life itself should be exalted. -- Volken Macmani, Tatakau Shisho: The Book of Bantorra
I hate myself. But maybe I can learn to love myself. Maybe it's okay for me to be here! That's right! I'm me, nothing more, nothing less! I'm me. I want to be me! I want to be here! And it's okay for me to be here! -- Shinji Ikari, Neon Genesis Evangelion
Yes, I know. You thought it would be something about Asuka. You're such idiots.

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Postby Chuckman » Mon Dec 15, 2014 4:19 pm

You don't get into Valhalla by some punk kid saving your ass.

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Postby Sicarius VI » Mon Dec 15, 2014 7:05 pm

View Original PostBagheera wrote:But that's why it's a decent effort: you can't change the plot of Eva without accounting for the (many) ripple effects that will occur as a result. Rommel did that, or at least made a decent effort at it, and that alone sets him apart from the pact. Everyone else just blows off the plot, and that makes the fic fail right out of the gate.

He's got edits on Chapter 9 up if anyone's interested.


Yea, to make it work to have 3I not happen you either need to start changing things durning the course of the show in a believable way or you need to start changing right around Kaworu's death/ EOE opening which is what he did, then he off sets it by 3 months and easily throughout the story he time skips days and weeks to easily add up to 3I happening more than a year after Shinji arrives in Toyko-3.

Also what chapter edits are you refering to? I have genocide open already, are the edits already on fanfiction? Or did I just completely misread what you said, and actual edits were not what you were talking about?

As for Chuckman's posts, while I never did hear of Asuka's "solar warrior-goddess force" it makes sense for what you are saying, Shinji coming in at the end to protect her represents that Asuka is in a way giving the fight for Shinji to finish, and it reinforces his character as someone who wanted to protect those he has close.

Also I must disagree Shinji is not a punk kid and I don't think Asuka would want to feast with Odin for eternity... :hahaha:
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Postby Mr. Tines » Tue Dec 16, 2014 2:19 am

View Original PostSicarius VI wrote:As for Chuckman's posts, while I never did hear of Asuka's "solar warrior-goddess force"


Try here. Also, this thread -- http://forum.evageeks.org/thread/15461/Neon-Genesis-Evangelion-is-an-Occult-Grimoire/

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Postby ReiAyanami25 » Thu Dec 18, 2014 1:36 am

The fan service? It strikes me as being wholly unnecessary and, in my opinion, it serves little purpose other than to be 'bait' for otaku.
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Postby Rosenakahara » Thu Dec 18, 2014 2:07 am

That was the point.
EoE's message probably wouldn't have worked as well without it.
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