What would you change about Evangelion?

This is a forum for casual discussion of Evangelion. Topics like "Asuka is hot!" or "Which Eva kicks the most ass?" belong here.

Moderator: Board Staff

Bagheera
Banned
User avatar
Posts: 18626
Joined: Oct 15, 2010

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Bagheera » Mon Jun 23, 2014 12:52 pm

View Original PostRosenakahara wrote:^ No it really did look like his punishment for the way he treated Shinji and Rei was being rejected by instrumentality an killed (though yui has no room to talk as she is the evil mastermind behind of all of this and thus shares the blame)


Right, but note he was killed by Unit 01, when we know Unit 01 was elsewhere at the time. What we saw there was no different than Fuyutsuki's vision of Yui or Maya's vision of Ritsuko -- it's just the form Rei took when collecting his soul for Instrumentality.

Even if he didn't get bitten in half the earth was basically wiped clean so he wouldn't have survived that and again im almost 100% certain he was rejected so im pretty damn sure gendo is dead.


He was tanged just like everyone else, and can presumably come back in the same fashion. As I asked NemZ in another thread, why would Rei/Lilith let people like Seele and all the other really horrible people in the world into Instrumentality and kick out Gendo? It doesn't make sense.
For my post-3I fic, go here.
The law doesn't protect people. People protect the law. -- Akane Tsunemori, Psycho-Pass
People's deaths are to be mourned. The ability to save people should be celebrated. Life itself should be exalted. -- Volken Macmani, Tatakau Shisho: The Book of Bantorra
I hate myself. But maybe I can learn to love myself. Maybe it's okay for me to be here! That's right! I'm me, nothing more, nothing less! I'm me. I want to be me! I want to be here! And it's okay for me to be here! -- Shinji Ikari, Neon Genesis Evangelion
Yes, I know. You thought it would be something about Asuka. You're such idiots.

ElMariachi
Le Posteur Verbeux
Le Posteur Verbeux
User avatar
Age: 30
Posts: 6843
Joined: Feb 26, 2013
Location: France
Gender: Male

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby ElMariachi » Mon Jun 23, 2014 1:07 pm

View Original PostBagheera wrote:He was tanged just like everyone else, and can presumably come back in the same fashion. As I asked NemZ in another thread, why would Rei/Lilith let people like Seele and all the other really horrible people in the world into Instrumentality and kick out Gendo? It doesn't make sense.

Maybe she simply doesn't give a shit about SEELE? And I was always sure that it was actually Yui who took advantage of the Third Impact spreading to the whole planet to get out of EVA-01 and give Gendo a little visit, and carry out his punishment.
In the same scene you see Yui, the three Reis and Kaworu, I don't see why everyone except Yui and Rei would be here if they were just a construct of Instrumentality, for me all of them were actually here.
Avatar: THE HIGHEST OF ALL HIGHS WE AAAAAAAAAARE!!!
Kensuke is a military otaku who, at one point, is shown creepily taking pictures of girls to sell. He would clearly fit right in as an animator at Studio Gainax. -- Compiling_Autumn
EoTV is a therapist, EoE is a drill instructor. -- Chuckman
Seriously, that is the most fananked theory I've ever heard, more than Mari being Marty McFly travelling through time to keep her parents (Asushin) together. -- Jäeger

Bagheera
Banned
User avatar
Posts: 18626
Joined: Oct 15, 2010

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Bagheera » Mon Jun 23, 2014 1:11 pm

View Original PostElMariachi wrote:Maybe she simply doesn't give a shit about SEELE? And I was always sure that it was actually Yui who took advantage of the Third Impact spreading to the whole planet to get out of EVA-01 and give Gendo a little visit, and carry out his punishment.
In the same scene you see Yui, the three Reis and Kaworu, I don't see why everyone except Yui and Rei would be here if they were just a construct of Instrumentality, for me all of them were actually here.


The Reis and Kaworu were in the same body at the time, and as I noted Unit 01 was an avatar of Rei. I mean, the alternative is that the Reis, Kaworu, and Yui (in the form of Unit 01???) were somehow physically present, and that makes no sense at all. Really, how is this different than Aoba seeing a bunch of Reis?
For my post-3I fic, go here.
The law doesn't protect people. People protect the law. -- Akane Tsunemori, Psycho-Pass
People's deaths are to be mourned. The ability to save people should be celebrated. Life itself should be exalted. -- Volken Macmani, Tatakau Shisho: The Book of Bantorra
I hate myself. But maybe I can learn to love myself. Maybe it's okay for me to be here! That's right! I'm me, nothing more, nothing less! I'm me. I want to be me! I want to be here! And it's okay for me to be here! -- Shinji Ikari, Neon Genesis Evangelion
Yes, I know. You thought it would be something about Asuka. You're such idiots.

Tumbling Down
Matarael
Matarael
User avatar
Age: 21
Posts: 590
Joined: Jun 16, 2014
Gender: Male

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Tumbling Down » Sat Jul 05, 2014 2:54 am

More jokes. Good god, more jokes. I hardly remember anything funny in this show. The only moment I remember laughing at was when Misato went through a phone tree and the guy at the top was playing golf.

There are lot of things in this show that could've been funny, though. Like SEELE. If everything I know about SEELE and the Instrumentality Project is correct, then Gainax could've defined their motivations in more explicit terms and turned SEELE into a comic relief of sorts, since their motivations are so damn silly. The best comic reliefs are also an integral part of the story, so there's no doubt in my mind that this could have been done.


Like, they could be snobs who think they know what's best for humanity, or, uh, total losers who are lonely and never want to feel lonely again, or, uh.. something else ripe for comedy, instead of just a group of spooky shadow men.

Vikocho
Embryo
User avatar
Age: 20
Posts: 14
Joined: Jul 07, 2014
Gender: Male

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Vikocho » Mon Jul 07, 2014 6:57 am

If i have the chances...

I would make a Rebuild-esque story where Gendo doesn't agree with Seele's Instrumentality Project, but still oppose the Angels somehow.

Wouldn't that be interesting?

Mr. Tines
Administrator
Administrator
User avatar
Age: 60
Posts: 19825
Joined: Nov 23, 2004
Location: This sceptered isle.
Gender: Male
Contact:

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Mr. Tines » Mon Jul 07, 2014 6:59 am

View Original PostVikocho wrote:story where Gendo doesn't agree with Seele's Instrumentality Project, but still oppose the Angels somehow.
I believe it was called Neon Genesis Evangelion

episode 21 wrote:Ikari: I know. Today, I'm starting a new project.
I've already made the proposal to Chairman Kihl.

Fuyutsuki: You're going to do That?

Ikari: Right.
The way to become a god, which no one has achieved.
The Human Instrumentality Project.
Reminder: Play nicely <<>> My vanity publishing:- NGE|blog|Photos|retro-blog|Fanfics|G+|MAL
Avatar: Ritsu-chan

HiImAnAlien
Embryo
User avatar
Age: 24
Posts: 23
Joined: Jun 18, 2014
Location: Europe, Romania
Gender: Male

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby HiImAnAlien » Mon Jul 07, 2014 11:18 am

View Original PostMr. Tines wrote:I believe it was called Neon Genesis Evangelion



lol, classic answer
Misato Katsuragi + Motoko Kusanagi :WIN

Vikocho
Embryo
User avatar
Age: 20
Posts: 14
Joined: Jul 07, 2014
Gender: Male

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Vikocho » Mon Jul 07, 2014 9:15 pm

View Original PostHiImAnAlien wrote:lol, classic answer


Ah daaamn, then what i'm looking for is Instrumentality in general... :um:

Tumbling Down
Matarael
Matarael
User avatar
Age: 21
Posts: 590
Joined: Jun 16, 2014
Gender: Male

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Tumbling Down » Tue Jul 08, 2014 6:01 pm

I want to see a live-action Evangelion where the story is fundamentally the same but there is a noticable Western sensibility.

That probably doesn't belong in this thread but I think the live-action Eva forum is closed.

Ray
Elder God
Elder God
User avatar
Age: 24
Posts: 6379
Joined: Feb 10, 2014
Location: USA
Gender: Male

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Ray » Tue Jul 08, 2014 6:19 pm

THAT SCENE in the hospital room. That has to go. if everything else was the same except THAT scene I think I'd be a lot more comfortable talking about Eva with my friends. I think the franchise would be a lot more popular than it is in the states if everything was the same except for THAT scene.

I mean, couldn't they have used something else that was less Squicky to get the same point across?

Other things I would change? I'd add a 60 second after credits scene showing Shinji got at least a modestly happy ending after all he's been through. God knows he deserves it.
I’ll escape now from this world, from the world of Jean Valjean, Jean Valjean is nothing now! Another story must begin!
Avatar: "There's a Starman, waiting in the sky. He'd like to come and meet me, but he thinks he'd blow my mind."
Phew, I’m not tense anymore… now I’m just miserable.
People say "be yourself" but that's bad advice, if we were all to "be ourselves" many of us would stop wearing clothes. -Chuckman

Vikocho
Embryo
User avatar
Age: 20
Posts: 14
Joined: Jul 07, 2014
Gender: Male

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Vikocho » Tue Jul 08, 2014 9:08 pm

View Original PostRay wrote:THAT SCENE in the hospital room. That has to go. if everything else was the same except THAT scene I think I'd be a lot more comfortable talking about Eva with my friends. I think the franchise would be a lot more popular than it is in the states if everything was the same except for THAT scene.

I mean, couldn't they have used something else that was less Squicky to get the same point across?


It actually became a 'good thing' to talk about Evangelion, it depicts Shinji's struggle and problems clearly... though i agree they could have changed it into something else and still deliver the message. It's not uncomfortable to talk about it with friends in my case though since i don't have many friends :(
"Freude, schöner Götterfunken Tochter aus Elysium, Wir betreten feuertrunken, Himmlische, dein Heiligtum!
Deine Zauber binden wieder Was die Mode streng geteilt; Alle Menschen werden Brüder, Wo dein sanfter Flügel weilt"

Bagheera
Banned
User avatar
Posts: 18626
Joined: Oct 15, 2010

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Bagheera » Wed Jul 09, 2014 2:23 am

View Original PostRay wrote:THAT SCENE in the hospital room. That has to go. if everything else was the same except THAT scene I think I'd be a lot more comfortable talking about Eva with my friends. I think the franchise would be a lot more popular than it is in the states if everything was the same except for THAT scene.


No, that scene's important. It tells us a lot about what's fucked up about Shinji's relationships with Asuka and others, and is symbolic in a lot of ways (if she forgives him for that she forgives him for everything, for instance). It's incredibly useful in a narrative sense.
For my post-3I fic, go here.
The law doesn't protect people. People protect the law. -- Akane Tsunemori, Psycho-Pass
People's deaths are to be mourned. The ability to save people should be celebrated. Life itself should be exalted. -- Volken Macmani, Tatakau Shisho: The Book of Bantorra
I hate myself. But maybe I can learn to love myself. Maybe it's okay for me to be here! That's right! I'm me, nothing more, nothing less! I'm me. I want to be me! I want to be here! And it's okay for me to be here! -- Shinji Ikari, Neon Genesis Evangelion
Yes, I know. You thought it would be something about Asuka. You're such idiots.

xPearse
Ramiel
Ramiel
User avatar
Age: 25
Posts: 331
Joined: May 11, 2014
Location: Belfast, Northern Ireland
Gender: Male

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby xPearse » Wed Jul 09, 2014 6:34 am

It also shows what Shinji is capable of, he does lock the door which shows he knows what he is doing and the intent. I remember people saying he didn't know what to do and wanted Asuka to wake up so he did an outrageous thing to do so which I disagree with as he locks the door, it would be different if he just did it on the spot without thinking. I personally would keep the scene because of said reasons, similar to Shinji trying to kiss Asuka in her sleep. It shows another side of him when others aren't looking as always when people are alone.

There's a lot of stuff I would change in Evangelion but it would take away from what it is, I always thought the original contact experiment was Gendo and Yui's bid for power to become gods through the use of Eva's as in a way they are gods themselves. I would make that change, also a lot of others. Including more Gendo, Kaji and new characters.

ElMariachi
Le Posteur Verbeux
Le Posteur Verbeux
User avatar
Age: 30
Posts: 6843
Joined: Feb 26, 2013
Location: France
Gender: Male

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby ElMariachi » Wed Jul 09, 2014 6:49 am

View Original PostBagheera wrote:No, that scene's important. It tells us a lot about what's fucked up about Shinji's relationships with Asuka and others, and is symbolic in a lot of ways (if she forgives him for that she forgives him for everything, for instance). It's incredibly useful in a narrative sense.

True that, although I wonder if the intent didn't backfired on Anno. He wanted to show us just how much Shinji was crushed and out of his mind by his recent experiences, and the symbolism with Asuka as you said, but people seem to have focused so much on that moment that it took away everything else Shinji did or felt: look around the Internet for opinions about Shinji, and you'll invariably find a majority of "whiny emo that jerks off a comatose girl", most of his struggles, his epiphany, his moments of goodness and badassery, all of this is eclipsed, he's "the boy who jerked off to a comatose girl".
Avatar: THE HIGHEST OF ALL HIGHS WE AAAAAAAAAARE!!!
Kensuke is a military otaku who, at one point, is shown creepily taking pictures of girls to sell. He would clearly fit right in as an animator at Studio Gainax. -- Compiling_Autumn
EoTV is a therapist, EoE is a drill instructor. -- Chuckman
Seriously, that is the most fananked theory I've ever heard, more than Mari being Marty McFly travelling through time to keep her parents (Asushin) together. -- Jäeger

Bagheera
Banned
User avatar
Posts: 18626
Joined: Oct 15, 2010

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Bagheera » Wed Jul 09, 2014 6:55 am

Like Anno gives a fuck about what the internet thinks! :lol:
For my post-3I fic, go here.
The law doesn't protect people. People protect the law. -- Akane Tsunemori, Psycho-Pass
People's deaths are to be mourned. The ability to save people should be celebrated. Life itself should be exalted. -- Volken Macmani, Tatakau Shisho: The Book of Bantorra
I hate myself. But maybe I can learn to love myself. Maybe it's okay for me to be here! That's right! I'm me, nothing more, nothing less! I'm me. I want to be me! I want to be here! And it's okay for me to be here! -- Shinji Ikari, Neon Genesis Evangelion
Yes, I know. You thought it would be something about Asuka. You're such idiots.

ElMariachi
Le Posteur Verbeux
Le Posteur Verbeux
User avatar
Age: 30
Posts: 6843
Joined: Feb 26, 2013
Location: France
Gender: Male

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby ElMariachi » Wed Jul 09, 2014 7:14 am

^
Well, he doesn't let the audience reaction influence him too much sure, but having misinterpreted his MC into "wanks to a comatose girl" instead of nearly everything he built for his character might had pushed to change his strategy for Rebuild.
Avatar: THE HIGHEST OF ALL HIGHS WE AAAAAAAAAARE!!!
Kensuke is a military otaku who, at one point, is shown creepily taking pictures of girls to sell. He would clearly fit right in as an animator at Studio Gainax. -- Compiling_Autumn
EoTV is a therapist, EoE is a drill instructor. -- Chuckman
Seriously, that is the most fananked theory I've ever heard, more than Mari being Marty McFly travelling through time to keep her parents (Asushin) together. -- Jäeger

Bagheera
Banned
User avatar
Posts: 18626
Joined: Oct 15, 2010

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Bagheera » Wed Jul 09, 2014 8:03 am

Not like "Impact Boy" is all that much better.
For my post-3I fic, go here.
The law doesn't protect people. People protect the law. -- Akane Tsunemori, Psycho-Pass
People's deaths are to be mourned. The ability to save people should be celebrated. Life itself should be exalted. -- Volken Macmani, Tatakau Shisho: The Book of Bantorra
I hate myself. But maybe I can learn to love myself. Maybe it's okay for me to be here! That's right! I'm me, nothing more, nothing less! I'm me. I want to be me! I want to be here! And it's okay for me to be here! -- Shinji Ikari, Neon Genesis Evangelion
Yes, I know. You thought it would be something about Asuka. You're such idiots.

Ray
Elder God
Elder God
User avatar
Age: 24
Posts: 6379
Joined: Feb 10, 2014
Location: USA
Gender: Male

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Ray » Wed Jul 09, 2014 9:37 am

A character can do all the good in the world. But if he does one act that is considered "Taboo' everything else about the character is pretty much eclipsed by that one selfish act. I hate to say it, but Human beings tend to remember the bad things rather than the good. Case in point a President can go to war for good reasons, but the media will crucify him for going to war altogether.

Maybe that was Annos intent with the rebuilds? Maybe he saw the way the western fandom reacted to Shinji's one really terrible act, and decided to apply something like that to the Rebuild universe to get some point across? Having Shinji be guilty of a crime so irredeemably bad, it makes all the good he did before worthless?

But seriously, couldn't they have come up with an alternative and get the same point across?
I’ll escape now from this world, from the world of Jean Valjean, Jean Valjean is nothing now! Another story must begin!
Avatar: "There's a Starman, waiting in the sky. He'd like to come and meet me, but he thinks he'd blow my mind."
Phew, I’m not tense anymore… now I’m just miserable.
People say "be yourself" but that's bad advice, if we were all to "be ourselves" many of us would stop wearing clothes. -Chuckman

ElMariachi
Le Posteur Verbeux
Le Posteur Verbeux
User avatar
Age: 30
Posts: 6843
Joined: Feb 26, 2013
Location: France
Gender: Male

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby ElMariachi » Wed Jul 09, 2014 10:07 am

^
I doubt Anno cares that much of Western audience's reaction, Evangelion is primarily a series for the Japanese audience.
And since the setup for FINAL will be that Shinji will get better, making a point across (what point?) by supposedly making him make an irredeemable crime doesn't make sense.
Avatar: THE HIGHEST OF ALL HIGHS WE AAAAAAAAAARE!!!
Kensuke is a military otaku who, at one point, is shown creepily taking pictures of girls to sell. He would clearly fit right in as an animator at Studio Gainax. -- Compiling_Autumn
EoTV is a therapist, EoE is a drill instructor. -- Chuckman
Seriously, that is the most fananked theory I've ever heard, more than Mari being Marty McFly travelling through time to keep her parents (Asushin) together. -- Jäeger

pwhodges
A Lilin in Wonderland
A Lilin in Wonderland
User avatar
Age: 71
Posts: 9436
Joined: Nov 18, 2012
Location: Oxford, UK
Contact:

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby pwhodges » Wed Jul 09, 2014 10:12 am

View Original PostElMariachi wrote:I doubt Anno cares that much of Western audience's reaction,

The delayed release of the US version of 3.33 seems to indicate otherwise!
"Being human, having your health; that's what's important." (from: Magical Shopping Arcade Abenobashi )
"As long as we're all living, and as long as we're all having fun, that should do it, right?" (from: The Eccentric Family )
Avatar: Sad, sad Shinji... (details); Past avatars.
Afterwards... my post-Q Evangelion fanfic (discussion)


Return to “Evangelion Chit-Chat”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest