What would you change about Evangelion?

This is a forum for casual discussion of Evangelion. Topics like "Asuka is hot!" or "Which Eva kicks the most ass?" belong here.

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What would you change about Evangelion?

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Postby EVAfacepalm » Wed Apr 24, 2013 3:52 pm

Now, we're all really big fans here. But, a key part of any good fandom is acknowledging the flaws of the work. I am not being one of those idiotic people who can only say "Eva was so confusing, I need all my characters and action to be simple and cool", I really do love the show, movies, and all other forms of Evangelion. So, what about Evangelion do you think was just not done right, even if it's not related to the plot of the show?

For me, it's how the series is marketed. I think one of the reason that people who aren't willing to think get into the early parts of Eva and get angry when it gets complicated is because a lot of promotional materials don't tell you that it's a character drama with some giant robot battles, not vice versa. And don't get me started on the fact that almost all materials seem to overtly sexualize every female character in some bizarre attempt to appeal to the lowest common denominator.
According to Seele, Tang is the ultimate form of life. I guess that means the astronauts are committing genocide all the time then.

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Postby Ornette » Wed Apr 24, 2013 3:57 pm

Somewhat related: http://forum.evageeks.org/thread/1729/LAEM-What-would-you-change/
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Postby EVAfacepalm » Wed Apr 24, 2013 4:00 pm

Should I have resurrected that one? I think the agreed rule was to only bring back threads from, at most, 4 years ago. That was from 2007 so I think I'm alright doing a new one.
According to Seele, Tang is the ultimate form of life. I guess that means the astronauts are committing genocide all the time then.

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Postby Mr. Tines » Wed Apr 24, 2013 4:04 pm

At the risk of meta-derailing the thread -- the one Ornette pointed out was aimed at the concept of a live-action adaptation, which has somewhat different constraints to pure animation; so this one is fine as it stands.
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Postby EVAfacepalm » Wed Apr 24, 2013 4:16 pm

Well, back on topic.

Another thing I would rather have been left out, is Death and Rebirth. The entire movie is essentially episode 14 stretched out to cover the whole series, with a preview for EoE at the end.
According to Seele, Tang is the ultimate form of life. I guess that means the astronauts are committing genocide all the time then.

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Postby Mr. Tines » Wed Apr 24, 2013 4:43 pm

D&R is pretty much forced, unless the change includes the heroic effort needed to get EoE out on the original schedule.

Personally, I think we could stand to lose the DC material, with associated reductions in shipping material in EoE. And in similar vein, use a tightened up version of the alternate live action scene just to keep everyone off balance.
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Postby Stryker » Wed Apr 24, 2013 4:54 pm

View Original PostMr. Tines wrote:Personally, I think we could stand to lose the DC material, with associated reductions in shipping material in EoE.


I'm interested in seeing your reasoning why. Not that I disagree, but I wonder what you find positive in removing that shipping aspect from Evangelion.
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Postby Rei IV » Wed Apr 24, 2013 6:38 pm

View Original PostStryker wrote:I'm interested in seeing your reasoning why. Not that I disagree, but I wonder what you find positive in removing that shipping aspect from Evangelion.

For one thing, it's one more unfavorable aspects of the fandom and the shipping actually tends to brings out the worst in some people. Evangelion is probably a perfect example where I would describe shipping as "toxic", at least to a degree. Some 18 years later, will still have fans still arguing whether Asuka or Rei should be paired with the Shinj, sometimes to ridiculous extremes and so far as going out their way to denigrate either character and their fanbases. The Kaworu x Shinji pairing tends to this as well and while I won't dispute the possibility of Yaoi fangirls/boys over blowing the "romance" and their relationship, some folks are clearly bothered and disturbed by the homo-erotic tones of said relationship and the possibility of our protagonist being in a BL relationship.

Come to think of it, I share Mr. Tines' sentiments and it would've been better if potential pairings were left ambiguous.
Last edited by Rei IV on Wed Apr 24, 2013 7:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby Lavinius » Wed Apr 24, 2013 6:47 pm

View Original PostLavinius wrote:Well I don't know about the Evangelions themselves, but I've wanted to make an amateur live-action film adaption of Eva. The Evas would be played by women in suits, by the way. There would be some major creative differences though. For instance, Asuka would be a French Nazi, Gendo would be a eunuch with his own musical number, Kiel would be Faust, and Shinji would be noble.

Also I forgot to add that Kiel would be Asuka's father.
But in altering the original work itself... maybe give more time and detail to Seele and the Angels.

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Postby Paranoid » Wed Apr 24, 2013 7:08 pm

View Original PostRei IV wrote:...some folks are clearly bothered and disturbed by the homo-erotic tones of said relationship and the possibility of our protagonist being in a BL relationship.

So? Let them be bothered. I'm not a KxS fan (nor am I into BL in general), but you shouldn't have to cater to people who are bothered by what others do in bed. Not to mention that in this case, it goes beyond the shippers; the homosexual overtones are there, regardless of whether you're a shipper or not.

Topic: I guess there are a couple of things I'd change about eva as a whole, but I'm going to have to be nitpicky and say the first thing I'd change would be the Engrish. Hearing "children" applied to one child makes me want to cry.
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Postby Nuclear Lunchbox » Wed Apr 24, 2013 7:11 pm

In all honesty, I like Evangelion just the way it is. I suppose that the Action Arc could have been made a bit less over-the-top, but that's about it. I like Anno's masterpiece. ^_^

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Postby EVAfacepalm » Wed Apr 24, 2013 8:05 pm

Oh yeah, I count the massive shipping as part of the over-sexualization I talked about. On that topic, I think the prime example of that is just the friggin' DVD cases. Look at the slipcase for the platinum edition, what did they put there? Rei in her tight plugsuit in a rather unflattering pose. The 2.22 case? Mari, a secondary character at best, in a tight plugsuit and nothing else. I think the marketing department of Gainax didn't get the memo from Anno that the series is actually meant to decry the type of anime that relies on abundant fanservice and action. And yes, the action arc does have some ridiculous fanservice but they at least do it in a way so awkward you laugh at the absurdity.
According to Seele, Tang is the ultimate form of life. I guess that means the astronauts are committing genocide all the time then.

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Postby Chuckman » Wed Apr 24, 2013 8:47 pm

The boobs were what drew me to the series anyway. It has staying power because it's secretly an alchemical formula and a commentary on the interplay of sexuality and violence and an attack on gender roles and and an allegory for the failures and selfishness of the cold war generation, but it's the psychotic redheaded German and her teasing flashes that got me there. Through the boobs, we find enlightenment.

I can sleep peacefully knowing that when I fall, I will be raised to Shipper Valhalla where I will feast every night in a golden hall attended by red headed waifus bearing meat and mead and every day riding a motorcyle into battle against the kaworushin hordes, butchering them like swine with skill and steel an M240 SAW until the end of time.

Suffer not the bishonen to live.

If it was up to me there would be more nudity. Misato never did full frontal.

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Postby Nuclear Lunchbox » Wed Apr 24, 2013 8:56 pm

View Original PostChuckman wrote:If it was up to me there would be more nudity. Misato never did full frontal.

There's a delicate balance of fanservice in NGE, and adding more would tip it. :um:

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Postby EVAfacepalm » Wed Apr 24, 2013 8:56 pm

On the KaworuShin debate. Personally, I'm in the "not gay" camp (no pun intended) but really don't have a problem with the shippers doing their thing. Also, the girls in Eva, save Misato, are all 14. Think about that in relation to some of the stuff shippers do in fanart and poses done with even official material. Whenever I purchase Eva stuff online I'm worried that I'm being put on some FBI watchlist.

Not that I don't enjoy some shipping art or discussion. I just find some stuff can get a bit creepy.
According to Seele, Tang is the ultimate form of life. I guess that means the astronauts are committing genocide all the time then.

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Postby nervshatter » Wed Apr 24, 2013 9:06 pm

View Original PostNuclear Lunchbox wrote:There's a delicate balance of fanservice in NGE, and adding more would tip it. :um:


You could always re-balance it by adding more depressing shit and more stuff that's left unclear.
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Postby Nuclear Lunchbox » Wed Apr 24, 2013 9:10 pm

View Original Postnervshatter wrote:You could always re-balance it by adding more depressing shit and more stuff that's left unclear.

True, true. :chinscratch:

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Postby EVAfacepalm » Wed Apr 24, 2013 9:11 pm

I think even Anno would say that's going too far.
According to Seele, Tang is the ultimate form of life. I guess that means the astronauts are committing genocide all the time then.

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Postby Hyper Shinchan » Wed Apr 24, 2013 9:14 pm

I would have introduced Kaworu earlier, before the destruction of Neo Tokyo 3, this was something Anno actually planned; also I would have scrapped Asuka and focused more and better on the relation between Shinji and Rei rather than killing it in episode 6.
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Postby EVAfacepalm » Wed Apr 24, 2013 9:21 pm

Yeah, Kaworu needed to be introduced earlier like in the manga. As it was his scenes could be summarized as thus:

"Hey Shinji I may or may not be gay for you but I'm also an angel and thus your enemy, but wait, it turns out I love you in an unspecified fashion so much that I'll let you crush me and save the world, bye!"

I wouldn't go so far as to cut Asuka, however. She is a major character. However, the experiment in vulgarity and fanservice that is Mari can go.
Last edited by EVAfacepalm on Wed Apr 24, 2013 9:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.
According to Seele, Tang is the ultimate form of life. I guess that means the astronauts are committing genocide all the time then.


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