The Shades of Gendo Ikari

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The Shades of Gendo Ikari

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Postby LordThaeon » Fri Mar 29, 2013 1:13 am

Like every other major character in Evangelion, Gendo Ikari is someone who you either really like or you really hate.

Honestly, I hate him.

But for curiosity's sake, what is interesting or likable about Gendo Ikari? How come this guy has such a polarizing effect even though his actions should paint a different image? What is it that makes some people look at him and see a sympathetic anti-hero while others would see a manipulative selfish monster?

Personally, I see Gendo as a selfish monster who abandoned his responsibilities as a parent and twisted it into another part of his grand plan to reduce mankind into orange juice to achieve some sort of spiritual/psychological/physical manifest destiny. What makes it worst for me is that he's really just starting Third Impact to be with his wife and sees everything else as a tool to achieve it.

Including his own child.

Call me a moralist, but this makes Gendo seem more villainous to me. Even when he does show shades of actual humanity including parallels to Shinji himself, I can't help but forget that he's manipulating children into erasing a threat to keep them from destroying humanity before him and Seele do.

While I can't see anything sympathetic or likable about the character of Gendo Ikari, I'm still curious and open-mined about why people sympathize with him or downright like him. I even get a chuckle from those Gendowned videos where he takes out anything from Justin Bieber to Sahaquiel with nothing but a gun and an icy stare.

Thoughts?
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Postby Ornette » Fri Mar 29, 2013 2:47 am

A couple of somewhat related threads:

http://forum.evageeks.org/thread/11756/Was-Gendo-ultimately-good-or-ultimately-bad/
http://forum.evageeks.org/thread/7624/Gendo-Ultimately-Good-or-Evil/

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Postby SimplyMason0 » Fri Mar 29, 2013 5:57 am

His abandonment with Shinji dose come off as human rather than monstrous. He was scared of Shinji.

As for Akagis, I do believe he was pretty monstrous since he manipulated 2 emotionally troubled women for his goals. His relationship with Akagi is up for debate since we don't know his last line.

Manga Gendo was monstrous

Also he looks really cool and stuff.

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Postby Nuclear Lunchbox » Fri Mar 29, 2013 12:27 pm

There's a great line in EoE when he describes how similar he is to Shinji, in the case that Gendo himself keeps running away. It was kind of touching to hear him say that, and sheds an interesting perspective on a lot of the Gendo-centric events of the show.

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Postby Bagheera » Fri Mar 29, 2013 12:42 pm

And then Yui ate him, so all's well that ends well?
For my post-3I fic, go here.
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Yes, I know. You thought it would be something about Asuka. You're such idiots.

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Postby Nuclear Lunchbox » Fri Mar 29, 2013 12:45 pm

View Original PostBagheera wrote:And then Yui ate him, so all's well that ends well?

I kinda laughed at that scene, since it was so unexpected. But yes.

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Postby Elect G-Max » Fri Mar 29, 2013 3:53 pm

He's just as fucked up as Shinji, but he deals with his problems by being a stone-cold badass instead of a spineless little pussy.

He is also the Uberpimp.
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Postby Bagheera » Fri Mar 29, 2013 4:22 pm

View Original PostElect G-Max wrote:He's just as fucked up as Shinji, but he deals with his problems by being a stone-cold badass instead of a spineless little pussy.


Yeah, right. He spent over a decade trying to get his dead wife back even after she made it clear she was done with him, and he died a broken little man after she rejected him. Shinji, meanwhile, choked out his love interest when she pushed him too far and said "fuck it, I'm gonna keep on living" afterwards. Shinji did more in 6 months than his father managed in 15 years.

There's a spineless little pussy in this picture, but it ain't Shinji.
Last edited by Bagheera on Sat Mar 30, 2013 3:48 am, edited 1 time in total.
For my post-3I fic, go here.
The law doesn't protect people. People protect the law. -- Akane Tsunemori, Psycho-Pass
People's deaths are to be mourned. The ability to save people should be celebrated. Life itself should be exalted. -- Volken Macmani, Tatakau Shisho: The Book of Bantorra
I hate myself. But maybe I can learn to love myself. Maybe it's okay for me to be here! That's right! I'm me, nothing more, nothing less! I'm me. I want to be me! I want to be here! And it's okay for me to be here! -- Shinji Ikari, Neon Genesis Evangelion
Yes, I know. You thought it would be something about Asuka. You're such idiots.

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Postby Guy Nacks » Fri Mar 29, 2013 4:36 pm

Gendo isn't likeable in any canon continuity (NGE/Manga/Rebuild). The ends for him always justify the means and he doesn't give a shit what he has to put Shinji or anyone else through to meet his own aims.

Although he is slightly more sympathetic in some continuities rather than others when his backstory is more fleshed out and we get an idea of just HOW and WHY he went off the deep end. It doesn't excuse anything he does, but it makes us understand his plight.
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Postby Blue Monday » Sat Mar 30, 2013 12:23 am

View Original PostBagheera wrote:Yeah, right. He spent over a decade trying to get his dead wife back even after she made it clear she was done with him, and he died a broken little man after she rejected him. Shinji, meanwhile, choked his love interest out when she pushed him too far and said "fuck it, I'm gonna keep on living" afterwards. Shinji did more in 6 months than his father managed in 15 years.

Oh man, this little paragraph right here... BOOM.

I still love me some Gendo though, haha.
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Postby ElMariachi » Sat Mar 30, 2013 7:25 am

View Original PostBagheera wrote:Yeah, right. He spent over a decade trying to get his dead wife back even after she made it clear she was done with him, and he died a broken little man after she rejected him. Shinji, meanwhile, choked out his love interest when she pushed him too far and said "fuck it, I'm gonna keep on living" afterwards. Shinji did more in 6 months than his father managed in 15 years.

There's a spineless little pussy in this picture, but it ain't Shinji.

You Sir, are awesome and your post deserves to be Quoted For Truth! :exalt:

On a side note : it was said somewhere that the events of NGE occurred in a period of 6 months?
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Postby Bagheera » Sat Mar 30, 2013 8:03 am

View Original PostElMariachi wrote:On a side note : it was said somewhere that the events of NGE occurred in a period of 6 months?


No, but it can be inferred once you piece events together. An unofficial timeline can be found here.
For my post-3I fic, go here.
The law doesn't protect people. People protect the law. -- Akane Tsunemori, Psycho-Pass
People's deaths are to be mourned. The ability to save people should be celebrated. Life itself should be exalted. -- Volken Macmani, Tatakau Shisho: The Book of Bantorra
I hate myself. But maybe I can learn to love myself. Maybe it's okay for me to be here! That's right! I'm me, nothing more, nothing less! I'm me. I want to be me! I want to be here! And it's okay for me to be here! -- Shinji Ikari, Neon Genesis Evangelion
Yes, I know. You thought it would be something about Asuka. You're such idiots.

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Postby Nuclear Lunchbox » Sat Mar 30, 2013 11:42 am

Gendo did manage to make the right call sometimes. During the Baradiel battle, there was a call to be made: either Toji or the loss of Unit-01. Making the call was the right idea, even though it made some of us look at him like he was the biggest raging asshole on the face of the earth. It may have just been the shitty situations that he was forced to make the calls in that makes him such a jerk in our eyes.

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Postby Bagheera » Sat Mar 30, 2013 12:14 pm

View Original PostNuclear Lunchbox wrote:Gendo did manage to make the right call sometimes. During the Baradiel battle, there was a call to be made: either Toji or the loss of Unit-01. Making the call was the right idea, even though it made some of us look at him like he was the biggest raging asshole on the face of the earth. It may have just been the shitty situations that he was forced to make the calls in that makes him such a jerk in our eyes.


He's a jerk in that situation because the entire situation was unnecessary. If he'd displayed even a smidgen of tactical acumen -- which you'd really think he'd possess, given that he's the commander of a paramilitary organization tasked with defending the world against alien attack -- he'd have deployed his resources effectively and averted the situation from the outset. Likewise, if he'd actually talked to Shinji, and made plain the fact that failure on his son's part would result in the extinction of every single life on Earth, you can bet Shinji wouldn't have waffled as he did. And of course there was no reason to frame the encounter as a false dilemma to begin with -- if he'd told Shinji to fight like mad and extract that entry plug at all costs what do you think would have happened?

DUDE 3.0 SPOILERS NOT COOL  SPOILER: Show
This was Anno's 4I moment in the original series, easily its lowest point due to the sheer absurdity of the setup. I don't want to say it would be impossible for the man to contrive a more obviously forced scenario, but, well . . . :shrug:
For my post-3I fic, go here.
The law doesn't protect people. People protect the law. -- Akane Tsunemori, Psycho-Pass
People's deaths are to be mourned. The ability to save people should be celebrated. Life itself should be exalted. -- Volken Macmani, Tatakau Shisho: The Book of Bantorra
I hate myself. But maybe I can learn to love myself. Maybe it's okay for me to be here! That's right! I'm me, nothing more, nothing less! I'm me. I want to be me! I want to be here! And it's okay for me to be here! -- Shinji Ikari, Neon Genesis Evangelion
Yes, I know. You thought it would be something about Asuka. You're such idiots.

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Postby tomrule123 » Sat Mar 30, 2013 1:38 pm

View Original PostBagheera wrote:
SPOILER: Show
Yeah, right. He spent over a decade trying to get his dead wife back even after she made it clear she was done with him, and he died a broken little man after she rejected him. Shinji, meanwhile, choked out his love interest when she pushed him too far and said "fuck it, I'm gonna keep on living" afterwards. Shinji did more in 6 months than his father managed in 15 years.

There's a spineless little pussy in this picture, but it ain't Shinji.

QUOTE OF THE FLIPPING YEAR!

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Postby LordThaeon » Sat Mar 30, 2013 1:53 pm

View Original PostBagheera wrote:He's a jerk in that situation because the entire situation was unnecessary. If he'd displayed even a smidgen of tactical acumen -- which you'd really think he'd possess, given that he's the commander of a paramilitary organization tasked with defending the world against alien attack -- he'd have deployed his resources effectively and averted the situation from the outset. Likewise, if he'd actually talked to Shinji, and made plain the fact that failure on his son's part would result in the extinction of every single life on Earth, you can bet Shinji wouldn't have waffled as he did. And of course there was no reason to frame the encounter as a false dilemma to begin with -- if he'd told Shinji to fight like mad and extract that entry plug at all costs what do you think would have happened?


Hell, I wouldn't be surprised if Gendo had indirectly set up the Bardiel incident to follow the Dead Sea Scrolls.

Why else would Nerv have failed to detect Bardiel within Unit 03 until it was too late? No one else thought that it was strange for an evangelion to have weird goo within it's core? Was the scanner malfunctioning? Did Misato take an idiot pill?

There's no way that this situation would make sense unless Gendo or Seele had some hand in setting it up and even that takes a long stretch.
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Postby Elect G-Max » Sat Mar 30, 2013 2:19 pm

View Original PostBagheera wrote:Yeah, right. He spent over a decade trying to get his dead wife back even after she made it clear she was done with him,


She what?

View Original PostBagheera wrote:she rejected him.


When?

View Original PostBagheera wrote:Shinji, meanwhile, choked out his love interest


No, he choked Asuka. His love interest merged with Lilith and turned everyone to Tang. Weren't you paying attention?

View Original PostBagheera wrote:and said "fuck it, I'm gonna keep on living"


When?
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Postby ElMariachi » Sat Mar 30, 2013 3:24 pm

View Original PostNuclear Lunchbox wrote:Gendo did manage to make the right call sometimes. During the Baradiel battle, there was a call to be made: either Toji or the loss of Unit-01. Making the call was the right idea, even though it made some of us look at him like he was the biggest raging asshole on the face of the earth. It may have just been the shitty situations that he was forced to make the calls in that makes him such a jerk in our eyes.

It's not just why Gendo responded to the Bardiel situation that made him a colossal jerk, but HOW he responded to it :

First thing, like Bagheera said, his "tactic" was completely retarded : you're against a Production Model Evanglieon specialized for battle, possessed and powered by a fucking Angel, on your side you have one advantage : numerical superiority. What do you do? If your answer is "Launch all of your EVAs to crush him with your numerical superiority", then congratulation, you are a far better tactician than Gendo, who for some reason decided to spread the pilot far enough so that Bardiel was able to trash them one by one without the others pilots being able to help.

Second, when Toji's entry plug couldn't eject, Gendo immediately announced that EVA-03 must be designed as "Angel" and that its destruction is the one and only objective, he completely discarded Toji's life and didn't even considered thinking of a plan to retrieve Toji's entry plug with the 3 EVAs, hell he didn't even considered that he could be saved! He directly ordered to the pilots to destroy EVA-03 without taking Toji's life in account. When even Rei, his most loyal soldier, hesitates on carrying the order, it's the sign that said order is wrong!

When Shinji refused to fight, Gendo asked him why he don't fight, Shinji's response is that he can't because there is a person still inside. Gendo's response? "Irrelevant! It's an Angel! Our enemy!" If you needed a proof that he didn't give a shit about the pilot life if it's not named Rei Ayanami, there it is!

SPOILER: Show
Image

When you make that face while the bio-robot on auto-pilot with your son inside is shredding to pieces another bio-robot with the future team mate of said son inside, then there really something fucked up with you!

When Shinji begged him to stop because the Dummy Plug already transformed EVA-03 in chunky salsa and there was still a chance for the entry plug to be intact, he did nothing. When the Dummy Plug got the entry plug in its hand and started to crush it and then Shinji begged him even more frantically to stop because really, there was nothing Bardiel could do anymore, he did nothing. When the Dummy finally crushed the entry plug and Shinji lost it in shock, he didn't reacted.

Later when Shinji was in the cage and refused to go out EVA-01 and was threatening to wreck the place until Gendo deigned talk and tell him why he let the Dummy Plug maims Toji, while the Bridge Bunnies were trying to reason him, what was Gendo's action? "Increase the pressure of the LCL to maximum. We have no time to waste on a petulant child." Aside the fact he didn't deigned respond to the desperate call of the pilot(who is his son) who has to be on first seat to see his friend maimed, there is no way in hell that raising the pressure of the liquid where the pilot is to the point of unconsciousness is an harmless procedure!

And then finally Gendo grants Shinji an audience with him after he was brought out of EVA-01 and waked up from his coma(totally harmless!)... handcuffed. And then he wanted Shinji to take responsibility for his various infractions!


What else do your need to see that Gendo handled the situation as a complete uncaring asshole?


View Original PostLordThaeon wrote:Hell, I wouldn't be surprised if Gendo had indirectly set up the Bardiel incident to follow the Dead Sea Scrolls.

Why else would Nerv have failed to detect Bardiel within Unit 03 until it was too late? No one else thought that it was strange for an evangelion to have weird goo within it's core? Was the scanner malfunctioning? Did Misato take an idiot pill?

There's no way that this situation would make sense unless Gendo or Seele had some hand in setting it up and even that takes a long stretch.

Well Iruel managed to infiltrate NERV's system and remaining undetected until the last minute, so über-stealthy Angels able to bypass the scanners aren't something new...
And the loss of EVA-03 was considered a loss for Gendo(see his talk with Fuyutsuki) and pissed off greatly SEELE, so that exclude the possibility that they set up the incident, or at least knew of the details.


View Original PostElect G-Max wrote:When?

When she munched him in EoE


View Original PostElect G-Max wrote:No, he choked Asuka. His love interest merged with Lilith and turned everyone to Tang. Weren't you paying attention?

Asuka is Shinji's love interest; it's made very clear thorough the series(he tried to kiss her on her sleep, the blush when Toji made the comment about the "newlywed arguing", his comment of how he wants to "help her and be with her forever" in EoE, the wanking scene...)
Shinji is intrigued by Rei, because of the uncanny resemblance with Yui(although he made the connection on a subconscious level at first) and her relationship with Gendo, but he was not attracted by her, unlike in Rebuild where they are clearly in love.



View Original PostElect G-Max wrote:When?

When he rejected Instrumentality, you know, the climax of EoTV and EoE?
Last edited by ElMariachi on Fri Apr 12, 2013 4:24 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Seriously, that is the most fananked theory I've ever heard, more than Mari being Marty McFly travelling through time to keep her parents (Asushin) together. -- Jäeger

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Postby BlackX32 » Mon Apr 01, 2013 8:44 pm

I hated Gendo before EoE. But at the end, I shed a single tear for a man who only feared his because he didn't want to hurt him and wanted to return to his love. While I believe his death is justifiable, and certainly unexpected, I wouldn't have minded some other ending for him.
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Postby Nuclear Lunchbox » Mon Apr 01, 2013 9:09 pm

View Original PostBlackX32 wrote:I hated Gendo before EoE. But at the end, I shed a single tear for a man who only feared his because he didn't want to hurt him and wanted to return to his love. While I believe his death is justifiable, and certainly unexpected, I wouldn't have minded some other ending for him.

Nobody would have minded, but there was some nice closure in watching his upper body get bitten off. :tongue:


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