The last line in 3.0

[qu4d]

Just rewatched Q and it seemed kinda odd to me, even though I'm probably reading too much into Asukas final line...

But why is she using the term Lilin? It doesn't make sense to me, because this way, she's speaking from an "outsider's perspective", like Kaworu for example, because he is no part of the Lilin. Shouldn't Asuka say something like: "We're going to where some other people are..."?

This would imply, that Asuka is no human... maybe there's something with the Bardiel-incident after all. Being kinda angelic and so on...

Flame on.

[Mr. Tines]

The Curse of Eva means that none of the pilot are garden variety humans any more.

[ElMariachi]

Maybe it's to imply "where other people than WILLE are". Had she just said "...to where the others are", people would have tough she was talking about the AAA Wunder or some other WILLE base.

And it's a vague enough term to means anything Anno will want it to mean once FINAL is released : a big city where live the rest of mankind, one of WILLE's base of operations...

[Nuclear Lunchbox]

Perhaps she's referring to something Zion-esque, Matrix style?

[Warren Peace]

One idea: post-Bardiel, Asuka doesn't identify as purely human anymore. Kinda hope that's not the direction they're going, but it's a possibility.

[Stan]

I think over the years Misato, Asuka and Mari perhaps learned about the evangelion "back-story" with the Adams/Lilins, so they know the big picture like Kaworu. So perhaps the meaning behind that phrase could be that she is going to drop the bomb on Shinji and reveal essential plot points (telling him the "truth" is like giving us, the viewers, more information about the history we're so interested in).

Honestly there were enough questions unanswered at the end of 2.0...why would they introduced even more questionable material in 3.0 and not give us any sort of expansion? At this rate 4.0 will be extremely rushed with overwhelming amounts of info (unlikely), or an extension to 5 films (unlikely), or nothing will be answered and we'll be left at the credits with a big "WTF did I just see" thought bubble over our heads...(very likely)

[Azathoth]

Perhaps she's referring to something Zion-esque, Matrix style?

While I wouldn't at all be surprised if this is so, it still doesn't explain why Asuka uses the term Lilin. It's not even clear where she's learned the term.

[TheFriskyIan]

While I wouldn't at all be surprised if this is so, it still doesn't explain why Asuka uses the term Lilin. It's not even clear where she's learned the term.

This. Regardless of why she actually uses the term, it's a little weird to see her being the only other person besides Kaworu to actually use it.

[Guy Nacks]

At this rate 4.0 will be extremely rushed with overwhelming amounts of info (unlikely), or an extension to 5 films (unlikely), or nothing will be answered and we'll be left at the credits with a big "WTF did I just see" thought bubble over our heads...(very likely)

I mean EOE had an OVERWHELMING amount of visual and auditory information that no one could possibly decipher on a first or even second viewing, but it WAS decipherable given enough study of the film and the series.

What I'm afraid of is that 4.0 (and maybe the series as a whole) won't even BE decipherable beyond fanwanking, given how little information about certain characters/plot points has been dished out thus far. Yeah, I know the series isn't finished yet and Anno's working in the limits of theatrical runtimes (but c'mon the dude's had a little over 5 hours of screentime for the entire series thus far, so lack of time can't be used as an excuse), but I can't help feeling a sense of dread about this. I mean Anno's not exactly making Gummo here where the plot and characters aren't SUPPOSED to matter.

[Warren Peace]

Something tells me this series just ain't your cup of tea, Guy Nacks.

[Guy Nacks]

Something tells me this series just ain't your cup of tea, Guy Nacks.

I was introduced to NGE and Rebuild roughly around the same time, watching 1.0 and 2.0 about a month or two after allowing myself to digest EOE, which is how I finished out the main series.

Maybe it's that my expectations were so astronomical after finishing the series, finding how great the character development was among a wide variety of the cast, coming to really care about most of their plights no matter how fucked in the head they were, amongst other things that I loved, that perhaps Rebuild was doomed from the start of not being able to hold a candle to it. That or maybe I've seen a few too many Plinkett reviews in the span of time between 2.0 and Q so maybe I could be nitpicking a little too hard. But there ARE valid criticisms to be made about 3.0 and the series in general up to this point. Maybe it's because 1.0 and 2.0 painted the series as having more of an ensemble cast than 3.0 did.

That said. I DID love 3.0 for FINALLY going significantly off the rails of NGE that Rebuild had (for about 80% of the time up until 3.0) been sticking to. I loved the animation, I loved the character designs, I loved the darker tone, I loved the soundtrack. Really I did. Something just hasn't sat right with me with 3.0's lack of subplots concerning minor characters that were given attention in 1.0 and 2.0. Or how mostly everyone now hates Shinji.....would they rather have had Zeruel cause the end of the world in 2.0 had he not acted? Dude was just trying to do his job, give him a break.

It would be way easier for me to just wipe my memory of the series clean and see if I'd have as many problems with Rebuild. This is also part of the reason why I'm anxious for a critic outside of the fandom such as SFDebris to finish a review of the rebuild movies BEFORE he checks out the series, just out of curiosity to see if viewing the series before the entirety of Rebuild really does make Rebuild seem even more inferior by comparison.

TL;DR: I don't hate Rebuild. NGE just set my expectations for it way too high.

[lastcody]

You people are talking like its over, save this debate about expectations till all the films are out.

[pwhodges]

Although comparisons with NGE are moot until we have the whole picture of both series, discussion of Rebuild itself is perfectly valid at this stage. Three films have been made, and have been presented in the public arena with the intention that people should pay money to see them - of course they are valid subjects for criticism. Even if perceptions may be changed by the ending (as perceptions of 1.0 and 2.0 have been changed somewhat by Q), they still need to work in this intermediate state of the series, at which point expectations for the ending are especially part of the deal.

[ElMariachi]

Perhaps she's referring to something Zion-esque, Matrix style?

That's what I meant, but as always I say it with far too many words! It would be jarring if WILLE, Gendo and Fuyutsuki are the last survivors, all these "younger news guys" Maya get mads about must have come from somewhere, since they seems to be in their twenties, and I doubt the Wunder have a daycare service!

By the way that story that WILLE has a cover story in which they are trying to purify the oceans is true, or just fanwank?

I think over the years Misato, Asuka and Mari perhaps learned about the evangelion "back-story" with the Adams/Lilins, so they know the big picture like Kaworu. So perhaps the meaning behind that phrase could be that she is going to drop the bomb on Shinji and reveal essential plot points (telling him the "truth" is like giving us, the viewers, more information about the history we're so interested in).

WILLE seems to know SEELE's existence : Mari calls Kaworu "Mr-Sucks-to-be-SEELE's-pilot", and Asuka made a comment about how cheap tactics like the special plate of Mark.09 is "SELLE's style".

But anyway I hope WILLE learnt more about the "back-story" : they wouldn't have lasted very long if they didn't knew about the mechanisms governing everything Angel related.(that includes the EVAs, Lilith and the Lilin)
And as Shinji won't come back to NERV any time soon(and probably not on friendly terms), WILLE is now the only source of info dump I could see, unless Quantum Rei decides to make an halt!

That said. I DID love 3.0 for FINALLY going significantly off the rails of NGE that Rebuild had (for about 80% of the time up until 3.0) been sticking to. I loved the animation, I loved the character designs, I loved the darker tone, I loved the soundtrack. Really I did. Something just hasn't sat right with me with 3.0's lack of subplots concerning minor characters that were given attention in 1.0 and 2.0. Or how mostly everyone now hates Shinji.....would they rather have had Zeruel cause the end of the world in 2.0 had he not acted? Dude was just trying to do his job, give him a break.

Let's better stay on topic, or it will become another Shinji thread and be closed!
We should better wait what this "place where the Lilin are" is, if like the preview said it will give back hope for Shinji that must be at least some decent place, if it's a glorified giant refugee camp where everyone is half starving to death, it won't be very hopeful right?

[Warren Peace]

I would be disappointed to see a refugee camp. It has been 14 years, plenty of time to... rebuild (hey hey!). A society able to sustain the Wunder (and Evas) must be at least somewhat advanced.

[ElMariachi]

That's why I said it should be a somewhat decent place : I would opt for a fortified city like Tokyo-3, or maybe a subterranean one like Zion in Matrix, to be protected against tempests, Angels and hte Nemesis Series.

Or if it's a surface city, it will have a big energy shield and be barded of anti-aerial defenses. Hey! Maybe that will be Shinji's next job since he can't pilot anymore.
That or as a form of twisted revenge he will be sent in Lilin City's school : after all he's still a brat, and brats have to go to school!
Asuka would have the time of her life making fun of Shinji!

[FreakyFilmFan4ever]

Honestly there were enough questions unanswered at the end of 2.0...why would they introduced even more questionable material in 3.0 and not give us any sort of expansion? At this rate 4.0 will be extremely rushed with overwhelming amounts of info (unlikely), or an extension to 5 films (unlikely), or nothing will be answered and we'll be left at the credits with a big "WTF did I just see" thought bubble over our heads...(very likely)

I like to think that the questions in 3.0 have the same basic answers to the questions in the other two films. EoE worked similarly, in that everything was explained with Misato stating that humans are similar to angels and that we can't live on the same planet as each other. Basically, everything in NGE can be explained with the "Hedgehog's Dilemma," with some visual cues here and there that help explain what's going on with Rei, where the Dummy Plug came from, and how SEELE is operating around their "Hedgehog's Dilemma."

Also, this.

Everything else in EoE was explained by virtually showing the viewers what's going on. ("What was that Human Instrumentality project EoTV mentioned? Well, let us show you.")

I expect FINAL to have a similar basic approach to the exposition that EoE had. We might have a few lines outright telling Shinji what's going on that probably ties in with a lot of themes from the first three films and visual demonstrations of everything else not verbally explained, this time maybe excluding the few frames of hate mail.

[Bagheera]

This. Regardless of why she actually uses the term, it's a little weird to see her being the only other person besides Kaworu to actually use it.

Yup. That's true even if she and the other pilots are no longer human. They seem to have started out as humans, so . . .

Something tells me this series just ain't your cup of tea, Guy Nacks.

Something tells me that's rather dismissive and missing the point.

Although comparisons with NGE are moot until we have the whole picture of both series, discussion of Rebuild itself is perfectly valid at this stage. Three films have been made, and have been presented in the public arena with the intention that people should pay money to see them - of course they are valid subjects for criticism. Even if perceptions may be changed by the ending (as perceptions of 1.0 and 2.0 have been changed somewhat by Q), they still need to work in this intermediate state of the series, at which point expectations for the ending are especially part of the deal.

Very much agreed. We can't act like anything's set in stone, or like there's nothing more to be said, but what's out there is out there and critique thereof is legit.

I expect FINAL to have a similar basic approach to the exposition that EoE had. We might have a few lines outright telling Shinji what's going on that probably ties in with a lot of themes from the first three films and visual demonstrations of everything else not verbally explained, this time maybe excluding the few frames of hate mail.

But will Anno bother? It seems he's been content to discard plot points thus far, so he might run with that all the way to the end. Even though he claims he can't change his essential nature he's been pretty careful about addressing plot points in the past; for this series of films, though, that doesn't seem to be one of his main goals.

[Warren Peace]

In Q, rather than answer questions, Anno piles on even more questions. This suggests that he appreciates the value of mystery more than a lot of his fans. Which is nothing new for him... ever since sitting us down in that folding chair, he's made no effort to hide his viewpoint. A man who thinks plot is king doesn't end his show with two episodes bereft of it.

Q says that those wishing for a row of perfectly lined ducks are valuing the wrong things. On top of that, the whole thing is about NOT getting what it is you want, and the dangers of failing to accept that! I call this a hint.

As always, there are bed crumbs for the obsessives (not counting myself out, there). For those willing to comb through storyboards to find out who the Hell is in Unit-00, or finish videogames to figure out what half of who is in Unit-02, curiosity can be satisfied (plot points were not as transparent as some remember). That these things were not featured in the show itself is far from a mistake. If Anno gave up answers that easily, this board would not exist.

[Bagheera]

In Q, rather than answer questions, Anno piles on even more questions. This suggests that he appreciates the value of mystery more than a lot of his fans. Which is nothing new for him... ever since sitting us down in that folding chair, he's made no effort to hide his viewpoint. A man who thinks plot is king doesn't end his show with two episodes bereft of it.

The difference is that the plot in EoE was nice but not necessary -- Anno did not leave more questions than answers going in to it. All we really needed to know going in to EoTV was that the Angels were defeated and that (somehow) the HIP was underway. Fans naturally wanted to know the specifics of how that happened, but that's hardly essential information. That's really not the case with Q and Final, where virtually none of the questions raised from the start have been addressed in any meaningful fashion (compare to 21-24, which are packed to the gills with info dumps and big reveals).

Q says that those wishing for a row of perfectly lined ducks are valuing the wrong things.

And I call that a straw man, since nobody's asking for that.

As always, there are bed crumbs for the obsessives (not counting myself out, there). For those willing to comb through storyboards to find out who the Hell is in Unit-00, or finish videogames to figure out what half of who is in Unit-02, curiosity can be satisfied (plot points were not as transparent as some remember).

That doesn't seem to be the case so far. I mean, people have been poring over the CRCs for years now and haven't found any great insights on the Key of Nebuchadnezzar, the contract with Lilith, the coffins on the moon, Shikinami's background/the reason for her name change, Mari's role and relationship with Kaji, or any of the other big, obvious questions that really should have been addressed in some fashion by this point. And that's to say nothing of plot reversals, such as Unit 06's diminished role or Lilith's ultimate dismissal.

CRC 3 might address this, or it might not. But at the moment the notion that the answers are out there is false.