Gundam (In All Its Incarnations) Mk. II

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Re: Gundam (In All Its Incarnations) Mk. II

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Postby MuscleRobo » Wed Aug 03, 2016 8:13 am

Yes I'm including Unicorn. Let me say that making the worst character in all of Gundam that everyone can easily agree upon is a great accomplishment in itself. Sure before people would say "Quess is annoying" or "Jerid is stupid" but we can all agree Riddhe takes the cake, wins the ribbon and received the trophy for most awful character. My problem with Unicorn is that it seems like fan fiction. I know that term gets thrown around a lot but let me clarify. It feels very disjointed from the series that come before and after it, more like it's there in the timeline just because there was a gap there. The main character is seemingly perfect and has a mobile suit that seems so overpowered it could take on a fleet of V2s. Also, he does have the closest thing to a harem in any gundam series with all the girls in his life drawn to him. The only connections it has to previous series is mostly in fandom entrenched things, heck before Unicorn came out ZZ was so forgotten it was almost skippable but hey what if there were even more Purus! Maybe I'm being too harsh on it, I only watched the first five OVA's but I'm wanting to finish up the loose ends in my gundam viewing so I'll give it another go.

Also, my roomie and I were playing Dynasty Warriors Gundam and talking about how odd ZZ is in the bigger picture of the Gundam meta series. We were wondering, do you think Tomino became more hands off once the CCA movie got approved? This is mostly based on it having cool and well written female characters though.

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Re: Gundam (In All Its Incarnations) Mk. II

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Postby Justacrazyguy » Wed Aug 03, 2016 9:39 am

Yes I'm including Unicorn. Let me say that making the worst character in all of Gundam that everyone can easily agree upon is a great accomplishment in itself. Sure before people would say "Quess is annoying" or "Jerid is stupid" but we can all agree Riddhe takes the cake


We're talking about UC here? Because I can think of a couple of characters from Victory that easily take the prize from his hands. Although I guess Victory hasn't been seen by that many people.

About the Gundam Banagher pilots, isn't this something that happens in other series? I always felt that the mechs Amuro and Char pilot in CCA were way stronger than the ones in Victory(Although that may be because they were made specially for NewTypes).
Not something that really bothers me though.

About Tomino being more hands off in ZZ...

Are well writen female characters absent in other Gundam series? It's not like Tomino is incapable of writing good females. I mean, Turn A has a bunch, MSG has Sayla and a few others, Zeta has Four, Haman and Fa(I guess these could be debated though) and even Victory has a couple. Does ZZ really have more cool female characters? Puru, Haman and the girls in the main group are all great but is there anything that makes them better than the ones in the other series?

I don't see him becoming more hands off at all. The directing to me feels consistent trough ought all his series I've watched.
It may just be that's his writing is a bit erratic at times. If it weren't for his personal touches that he has in every series I'd have a hard time believing that the man that directed Victory is also the man that directed Turn A and Reconguista!
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Re: Gundam (In All Its Incarnations) Mk. II

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Postby cyharding » Sat Aug 13, 2016 10:08 pm

Turn A Gundam will be released on Bluray early next year. The interesting thing about this is that they are going to let people who bought the DVDs last year to exchange them for the blurays, which is nice.

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Re: Gundam (In All Its Incarnations) Mk. II

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Postby Tankred » Wed Aug 31, 2016 12:45 pm

Glad you got into Gundam, Justacrazyguy.

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Re: Gundam (In All Its Incarnations) Mk. II

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Postby norival1992 » Wed Sep 14, 2016 6:31 am

My opinion:
when Frontal and Banagher are fighting in Earth's gravity well there's a sincere gruff/anger in Frontal's voice when he says "Banagher, if you can hear me, STOP THIS", almost all of Bright's lines had a similar gruff, Mr. Gilboa's telling Tikva to take care of the family as he died, etc., None were present in the OVAs'.

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Postby cyharding » Wed Sep 28, 2016 11:03 pm

A rather interesting short film was made.

http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/interest/2016-09-28/live-action-gundam-short-imagines-a-documentary-after-the-one-year-war/.106999

The video is in the article.

The only problem is that there is no translation for the part spoken in Russian.

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Re: Gundam (In All Its Incarnations) Mk. II

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Postby KnightmareX13 » Sun Oct 02, 2016 12:29 pm

Well Gundam Info has the first episode of Iron Blooded Orphans season 2 up on Youtube with english subs but its region locked to Asia and Ocenia :facepalm:

edit: Daisuki has it available
Last edited by KnightmareX13 on Sun Oct 02, 2016 4:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Gundam (In All Its Incarnations) Mk. II

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Postby pwhodges » Sun Oct 02, 2016 1:15 pm

You have a PM.
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Re: Gundam (In All Its Incarnations) Mk. II

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Postby robersora » Wed Oct 12, 2016 11:17 am

Gundam Thunderbolt a.k.a. I think I had huge robots
After struggling through 3 subbed Episodes and forgetting everything I’ve seen, I’ve watched the dubbed movie-version. While not having to read subtitles while trying my best to remember what happened in a previous Episode from a month or so ago made it significantly easier to force myself to pay attention, I nevertheless zoned out completely every few minutes. Something about those Gundam-space politics coupled with human melodrama which only purpose is screaming WAR IS BAD at you, makes me yawn. At least this wasn’t directed in the insufferable Tomino style (which destroyed both Turn A and G Reco for me) - but I have to admit, that it looks nothing short of breathtaking. I really appreciate the effort that went into animating this, even if you can do only so much when you have to work with a gritty-semi-realistic-nostalgic-space look. It seems like a rather stupid idea to go with that style, because the star of this show, the Gundam, looks even more atrocious when its not embedded into candy-culture-designs. The music is definitely a cute idea - but while the vibe of the songs hit the intended nail on their respective heads, the actual underlying quality of the songs is too mediocre, unfortunately. Where is Kanno when you need her?
It’s definitely one of the better Gundams I’ve watched so far (Turn A would be fantastic with less Tomino), still this franchise seems to be not for me. 4/10
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Re: Gundam (In All Its Incarnations) Mk. II

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Postby Tankred » Sat Oct 15, 2016 12:48 pm

View Original Postrobersora wrote:still this franchise seems to be not for me.


If you can't stand how Tomino directs Gundam, or at least can't get used to it, you're best avoiding everything to do with UC or Turn A.

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Postby Alaska Slim » Mon Nov 28, 2016 4:13 am

@ IBO episode 34

Oh dear God... McGillis is attempting to build a new world free from arbitrary restrictions, like looking down on people for their class... or, y'know, even sillier things like pedophilia. Him putting the girl on his lap so that she was straddling him is the most cringe-worthy moment in this series for me.

Is it wrong If I root for the antagonists now? I'm not even clear what makes them "bad", other than that they might kill the protagonists. The backers of Tekkadan are certainly seedy, and it's not clear things would be better under their control than Gjallarhorn's. McGillis equally doesn't leave the best impression as to his own motives, considering how cold and manipulative he is towards his own "friends".


I'm not sure I even follow what the economic bloc's stakes are in all of this. I thought that their getting their own militaries was a jab at galljahhorn; a sign that they were looking to grow to challenge the latter's power and start managing their own affairs. But the galljahhorn higher ups were saying that this was a part of their own plan to (somehow) stabilize the situation in the colonies.


Not sure I follow that logic, seems like that the nations would supplement their peacekeeping role overtime doing that, leaving them to do... what, fighting pirates?
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Re: Gundam (In All Its Incarnations) Mk. II

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Postby Gus Hanson » Sun Dec 04, 2016 4:47 pm

For the first time in over 15 years, I saw the first episode of Gundam: The 08th MS Team. Shiro manages that perfect balance of cocky and professional in a Gundam protagonist. This is also my first time watching it in Japanese so imagine my eargasm listening to Kikuko Inoue as Aina! :D I used to feel sympathy for Michel in the past due to him being a rookie as well but his big mouth whining starting from complaining about regular soldier behavior to thinking Shiro won't make it back alive which rightfully pissed off Sanders makes me want to smack the bum upside the head.
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Re: Gundam (In All Its Incarnations) Mk. II

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Postby Squigsquasher » Tue Jan 10, 2017 10:50 am

So as soon as I've watched a few of the shorter items on my backlog, I'm planning on getting right back into Gundam. I've neglected it for too long, and it is time to atone for my sins with a bloody marathon.

It's been so long since I last watched anything Gundam related that I'm going to "reset" my watch list and rewatch all the stuff I've already seen...only hopefully in the right order this time. First I'm going to rewatch the 0079 movie trilogy, then War in the Pocket and 08th MS Team (which is the best order to watch those two in?). Then I'm going to finally watch Zeta properly (that is, not getting distracted by other anime after 8 episodes and losing my place)- from then on I'm in "stuff I have yet to watch" territory- so Stardust Memory (which AFAIK happens between the One Year War and Zeta but requires knowledge of Zeta to understand properly), Double Zeta, and then Char's Counter-Attack (am I getting that in the right order?). As far as I'm aware, that's pretty much all the actually good stuff in the UC, so I'll probably take a break from Gundam and watch some other stuff before I get into the good AUs from there (so G Gundam, Turn A Gundam, Iron-Blooded Orphans, G-Reco and maybe Build Fighters).

TLDR: I'm going to finally conquer the mountain that is Universal Century. Or at least, the good bits- I'm not sure I'm ready to dive into the caldera of shit that is super-late UC.

***

I'm also planning (once A: I have my airbrush setup sorted out and B: once my 40K backlog is finally conquered) on doing some Gunpla. The question is, what are some good-looking, well-made but relatively affordable and fairly simple kits that are good for practicing painting on? I hear the MG Zaku 2.0 is a good starter kit due to it being very well engineered (and, well, a Zaku) though it isn't exactly cheap, and SDs I know are good for practicing on, and also very cheap due to being teeny-tiny.
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Re: Gundam (In All Its Incarnations) Mk. II

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Postby Justacrazyguy » Tue Jan 10, 2017 1:04 pm

View Original PostSquigsquasher wrote: As far as I'm aware, that's pretty much all the actually good stuff in the UC,


As one who likes F-91 and Victory, this statement hurts me. Seriously though, why not give F-91 a try? It's just one movie and, even if it doesn't live up to past Gundams, it's a gorgeous film.

I'm not going to try to convince you to watch Victory though. I'll just say that the consensus among the fans shouldn't be the final word on something.

Anyway, are you going o write about your new tour through Gundam? It would be cool to see your thoughts.
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Re: Gundam (In All Its Incarnations) Mk. II

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Postby Squigsquasher » Tue Jan 10, 2017 1:13 pm

View Original PostJustacrazyguy wrote:As one who likes F-91 and Victory, this statement hurts me. Seriously though, why not give F-91 a try? It's just one movie and, even if it doesn't live up to past Gundams, it's a gorgeous film.

I very well may give F91 a go. I do like the mecha designs (at least from what I've seen on MAHQ), and as you say it's just one movie. I suppose I'm not outright saying "I'm never watching late UC stuff" as much as "I'm not making late UC stuff a priority on my Gendum crusade".

I'm not going to try to convince you to watch Victory though. I'll just say that the consensus among the fans shouldn't be the final word on something.

I have heard it has its moments. I suppose the problem is that it's AFAIK pretty long. If it were just a 6 ep OVA I'd watch it for sure, I'm just not sure I want to greatly extend the length of what will already be a gigantic endeavour via something I may not like that much. I'll definitely watch it at some point though, just probably not as part of the Great Gundam Gallivant of 0016.

The one I'm really not sure on is Unicorn. Some say it's great, many say it's decent, but a worrying amount say it's absolute garbage. I will say the title Gundam looks pretty cool, though, so it has that going for it.

Anyway, are you going o write about your new tour through Gundam? It would be cool to see your thoughts.

You bet I am! Quite aside from anything else I'll need guidance on watching order and probably clarification on the more LOLTOMINO moments (bless his heart). I probably won't write Xardposts on it because my insight isn't that great, but I'll definitely share my thoughts on my journey.
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Re: Gundam (In All Its Incarnations) Mk. II

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Postby Justacrazyguy » Tue Jan 10, 2017 3:24 pm

View Original PostSquigsquasher wrote:The one I'm really not sure on is Unicorn. Some say it's great, many say it's decent, but a worrying amount say it's absolute garbage. I will say the title Gundam looks pretty cool, though, so it has that going for it.


Yeah, I've seen opinions ranging from great to the worst thing ever made. There's no way of knowing if you'll like it. Personally, I enjoyed it(if that 9 on MAL is any indicator) but my opinion doesn't count for much.
You're probably aware, but just to be safe, steer clear of the TV broadcast version. Episodes end at weird points, there are giant recaps at the beginning of every episode(some are nearly 5 minutes long) and the OP spoils things(the actual song is cool though).

I suppose the problem is that it's AFAIK pretty long.


Yeah, the length can be intimidating. I watched it almost right after finishing ZZ(and the movies) so I was still in the right mindset/state of spirit required to watch such a large series.

Have you seen Turn A? I decided to watch right after I finished Victory because it looked like the natural conclusion for the UC. I didn't bother with the AU stuff though. I know some people prefer to watch everything made before Turn A, but the nods to AU stuff is so subtle it's practically irrelevant.

Anyway, I look forward to seeing whatever you write.
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Re: Gundam (In All Its Incarnations) Mk. II

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Postby Squigsquasher » Tue Jan 10, 2017 4:02 pm

View Original PostJustacrazyguy wrote:Yeah, I've seen opinions ranging from great to the worst thing ever made. There's no way of knowing if you'll like it. Personally, I enjoyed it(if that 9 on MAL is any indicator) but my opinion doesn't count for much.
You're probably aware, but just to be safe, steer clear of the TV broadcast version. Episodes end at weird points, there are giant recaps at the beginning of every episode(some are nearly 5 minutes long) and the OP spoils things(the actual song is cool though).

Thanks for the warning, I'll bear that in mind.



Yeah, the length can be intimidating. I watched it almost right after finishing ZZ(and the movies) so I was still in the right mindset/state of spirit required to watch such a large series.

Have you seen Turn A? I decided to watch right after I finished Victory because it looked like the natural conclusion for the UC. I didn't bother with the AU stuff though. I know some people prefer to watch everything made before Turn A, but the nods to AU stuff is so subtle it's practically irrelevant.

Anyway, I look forward to seeing whatever you write.

I haven't seen Turn A- only Gundam I've seen so far (and bear in mind this was ages ago) was original movie trilogy, War in the Pocket, 08th MS Team and about 8 eps of Zeta.

I'm going to restart my grand crusade tonight though with the first Mobile Suit Gundam movie, so I'll let you know how it was probably tomorrow.
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Postby Squigsquasher » Tue Jan 10, 2017 8:15 pm

So I just rewatched the first Mobile Suit Gundam movie. It's a lot better than I remember it, actually. Like, a LOT better.

Wall of text + Moveable Pants Gendum plot details  SPOILER: Show
For starters, this movie is fucking grim. Not in a "hurr we r edgy and grimdark durr" way either- in a really personal, hard hitting way. For all its trappings of bright colours, toyetic designs, and general 70s goofiness, it really does nail the idea that war is hell. The opening montage shows a colony drop wiping out an entire city, and we are informed that in the merest beginnings of the war, both sides lost over half their respective populations. Within the first 10 minutes, countless civilians are killed, including poor Fraw Bow's mother. The violence isn't a particular gorefest (mostly bloodless in fact, probably to keep the rating down and sales up) but it is brutal and sobering nonetheless. The casualties don't feel like generic cartoon characters or mere cannon-fodder props; their deaths actually leave you thinking "Holy shit. They all just died." Even the Zeon deaths are pretty affecting. There's no triumphant music when the next Zaku is obliterated by beam rifle fire, and more often than not we are treated to the terrified screaming of the unfortunate pilot. The death of Crown (also, bonus points for actually giving the Zeon pilots names) as his Zaku burned up in re-entry was particularly hard to watch.

Both sides are portrayed to be equally monstrous. On the one hand, the Zeon are a literal dictatorship run by a family of madmen. But the Earth Federation feels almost more...personally nasty. White Base is being effectively used as a (admittedly powerful) decoy, with the Gundam itself the only thing of any real value to the Federation top brass. Feddie soldiers are shown comitting wanton acts of cruelty and abuse upon the civilians they are supposed to be defending. The civilians of Federation-controlled colonies are treated as expendable in favour of the war material contained within.

The attention to detail is quite phenomenal, actually. The science is actually fairly "hard" considering it's a mecha anime (and an old one at that). The colonies are designed after actual, seriously-proposed concepts for space stations, with artificial gravity generated by centrifugal force rather than technomagic bullshit. In space, the ships are shown to be zero-G environments inside. Hull breaches are repaired not with "How the fuck does that work" sliding doors but with hard-setting sealant polymer. And then there's the little things like the fact that few of the space-born people knew what lightning was, due to living all their lives in an artificially controlled environment.

The characters are one of the strong suits in an already strong film. Like, the characters are rock solid. Everyone feels like a person rather than a plot device. Char is incredibly likeable in spite of being an antagonist (and not in a "love to hate" kind of way either). Amuro is realistically flawed, but not to the point of annoyance. Bright is stern and stoic but not an arsehole. Even the orphans aren't too annoying, and they're just there for comic relief.

The acting is absolutely superb. Bright and Char are particularly excellent, but really everyone is stellar- everyone feels totally convincing in their roles. You really don't get acting of this sheer brilliance anymore. (Especially as, very sadly, a lot of the original cast is now long dead.)

Technically...well, obviously this is where the film falls a little short due to being made largely from footage animated in 1979, but it's actually surprisingly competent considering its age. Even with slightly crude animation in places and occasional lapses into QUALITY, on the whole it actually looks pretty good. The actual direction is top notch and the roughness actually adds a certain feeling of authenticity to it. Like, this isn't a clean, bright space opera, this is WAR. The animation, early as it is, depicts that well, and I applaud them for it.

The music (of which there isn't a huge amount) is very good. Very 70s, but very good, and it fits the tone very well. It's also very restrained in its use of said music, which is nice.

Character designs are great. Even without tonnes and tonnes of 80s SHADING or 90s ultra-expressiveness, they're very appealing designs- quite classy, actually- with everyone looking as they should. I will admit I'm a huge sucker for older character aesthetics, and I'm actually getting a real appreciation for the simpler designs of the 70s.

Mecha designs are variable, though it's unfair to judge the designs purely on the actual footage simply due to the inherent roughness.The actual designs are for the most part top-tier. The Zaku is a real favourite of mine, and even with the crude animation it at times looks downright menacing. The ships, too, are very well done, perfectly achieving the balance between WW2 battleships and space-age craft. The Feddie designs I'm less keen on due to them looking more toyetic than their Zeon counterparts, but on the whole they're still good. I do like the Guntank a lot- it looks simultaneously like a really fun toy and a capable war machine.

Particularly good bits are the whole sequence with Amuro's hometown (his farewell to his mother being particularly heartbreaking) and SIEG ZEON speech at the end. I could pick more, but I'd be here all night.

In terms of weaknesses...I can't think of many. I'm prepared to excuse the QUALITY because of its age, and whilst there are moments when Amuro acts a little bit stupid, it's nothing severe. There really isn't much to pick holes in, objectively. It's just a really, really good film.


Overall I'd go as far as to say that it's not just a really good mecha anime- it's a really good war movie. The only bits that have aged badly are the visuals; everything else is just as impressive today as it was when it was released. The fact that it remains this good not just considering its age, but the fact that it's the first "real robot" anime ever made (seeing as the first film is largely just the original TV series with a bit of a technical overhaul in places and re-recorded dialogue) is absolutely phenomenal.

Now let's just hope the next two films hold up as well. I recall liking them even more than this when I last watched them, so hopefully they'll exceed my expectations.

But yeah. Top marks. Ya done did good, Tomino.
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Re: Gundam (In All Its Incarnations) Mk. II

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Postby Justacrazyguy » Wed Jan 11, 2017 4:10 am

About that QUALITY, I wonder if anyone ever bothered to make an image archive compiling the differences between the movie and the TV versions. The art style remains so consistent I honestly cannot tell were there were changes or new animation. It's certainly not like the Zeta movies insane quality clash between old and new scenes.

I find it interesting you mention the music, since I really cannot remember noticing it at all aside from two scenes: the ending of the second and third movie. Looking back, it's weird how out of the major Gundam UC releases, 0079 is the only one that I didn't think had an amazing soundtrack.

I really should watch the 0079 TV series...Some day, some day.
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Postby Squigsquasher » Wed Jan 11, 2017 7:50 pm

I've now rewatched Mobile Suit Gundam 2: Soldiers of Sorrow.

Wall of Text  SPOILER: Show
This one didn't start out anywhere near as grim as the first movie, and at first seemed far more light-hearted than the previous entry. It didn't stay that way at all, mind you; pretty much as soon as Amuro met Ramba Ral in person, things took a turn for the heavy. Again, the characterization and drama is pretty spot on, and the way the Zeon soldiers are portrayed just as regular blokes is refreshing, with Ramba himself appearing as a genuinely good-hearted man (which made is death all the more sad).

Kill 'em All Tomino certainly lived up to his moniker in this movie; between Matilda, Ramba, Miharu, Ryu, Woody and the countless poor sods whose names are only given to make their deaths more personal, the bodycount is pretty high. None of the deaths seemed at all gratuitous, though, and all of them felt pretty tragic (Matilda especially... ;_;7 )

The action was actually pretty awesome, even with no small amount of QUALITY. The fight between the gundam and the Gouf was especially well done, as was the final fight at the end (Ai Senshi is an awesome song, FWIW). There was also a good deal of tense moments, especially everything involving the captured Zaku pilot, Cosun.

It did have it's weak moments though. The whole thing of Amuro running off with the Gundam seemed a bit daft, and LOLTOMINO was definitely in effect. Overall it seemed a bit...sillier and somehow more dated than the first movie, probably not helped by some of the dafter vehicle designs (Gunperry, Cuis, I'm looking at you). The bit near the end with the orphans accidentally foiling the plan to destroy the GM factory was a bit ludicrous as well.


Overall, whilst I felt it was weaker than the first entry, it was definitely still a good movie with some truly excellent bits to it. It felt a bit more anime than war movie in places (if that makes any sense at all) but regardless, a solid film with real emotional punch. I'm really looking forward to watching the last in the trilogy, as IIRC from my previous viewing it was probably the best out of the three.

Welp, next stop: Encounters in Space.
Here lies Squigsquasher.
2013-2017.


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