Evangelion 13: fate, mechanics, etc.

Discussion of the new series of Evangelion movies ( "Evangelion Shin Gekijōban", meaning "Evangelion: New Theatrical Edition").
The third installment debuted in Japan on November 17, 2012.

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[SPOILERS] Evangelion 13: fate, mechanics, etc.

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Postby Hiten777 » Thu Feb 28, 2013 12:14 am

Ok I already started a thread on Mark.06 and now I'm moving on to a discussion on this particular Evangelion, Evangelion 13. Eva 13 was the center evangelion in 3.0 although it was only at the end. Most already know that most of the features and abilities of Eva 13 were transferred from Unit-08 after Anno scrapped the original concept.

My main question for debate is, what is the future of Evangelion 13 in 4.0?

I ask this because we were all given a lot of hype and anticipation when Mark.06 was first introduced and so far the only thing we've seen is that that evangelion was reduced to nothing but a side tool (ignoring whatever "previews" we are shown for 4.0).

These are the main ideas that come to mind (at least in my mind):
- Eva 13 is cast aside until it can be fully awakened towards the end of 4.0 and destroyed before it can be awakened
- Eva 13 loses its importance
- Eva 13 serves as MP Eva during EoE, and finishes impaling itself to complete HIP
- Eva 13 becomes the combination of Adam (Surviving Adam) and Lilith (absorbed the body of Lilith and 12th Angel in 3.0)
- Eva 13 (Independent awakening like Mk.09) vs Eva Unit 01 (Shinji)

Some of these can go together as well. The first is because we've seen how powerful Eva 13 is and if it were awakened it would probably be difficult to defeat, unless it is stopped in the most unpopular fashion, which is before it can be released. The second is that Eva 13 becomes another Mk.06 and is then a stage prop for the rest of the movie. The third was harder to put down, but essentially fills in the role the MP Evas played during EoE (it already performed the action a bit during 3.0 before deactivating). The fourth can pretty much be considered legit a little since Eva 13 has been confirmed as a Surviving Adam and absorbed the body (not soul) of Lilith (potentially waiting for the soul to be given). And the final major one, is that Eva 13 is fully awakened in the same way Mk.09 was programmed to by Seele and thus becomes the main obstacle to Shinji piloting the Awakened Unit-01.

Anyway, feel free to add anything u feel I've left out. Also, let's try and keep this discussion strictly about Eva 13.

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Postby JKK_oneofakind » Thu Feb 28, 2013 12:58 am

Im probably wrong, and this is a bit off topic, but i've had this suspicion that perhaps the 'key of Nebuchadnezzar' Kaji gave gendo in Re2.0 ended up being grown into eva13.

im probably wrong, but after a few viewings of the camrip, i cant deny the thought hasnt crossed my mind.. after all, things are very different this time around..
dont even know what to say...

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Postby Giji Shinka » Thu Feb 28, 2013 5:50 am

Gendo still has The key in his suitcase for final plan.

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Postby JKK_oneofakind » Thu Feb 28, 2013 8:20 pm

View Original PostGiji Shinka wrote:Gendo still has The key in his suitcase for final plan.


Most likely.
dont even know what to say...

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Postby Xous » Fri Mar 01, 2013 6:15 am

Well, Unit-13 still has one of the two Spears Shinji needs to try to fix the world... So it's hard for me to believe it'll just be forgotten. I can't imagine they'd remove the Spears off-screen, either, but then again I never would have guessed they'd toss aside the Mark.06 like that, so I suppose anything is possible.

A showdown between it and the "new?" Unit-01 would be pretty awesome, but I'm not going to get my hopes up about that. Despite the fact there are so many important factors about Unit-13, a part of me doubts we'd get an awesome showdown with it. Maybe Unit-01 will just consume it as it lies inactive, or just pull the Spear it needs from it without any issue whatsoever. (Or maybe an EoE-style pulling of the Spear from the moon, where the Spear magically flew to Unit-01 - only this time it'd magically pull itself from the Eva.)

I do think it will serve some sort of role in Final (unless they take the aforementioned route of doing something off-screen), but there are just too many ways for them to handle it for me to really sit back and say, "I think for sure it'll go like this."
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Postby Hiten777 » Fri Mar 01, 2013 11:33 pm

I meantioned the last part about 13 vs 01, because near the end of 3.0 Mark.09 was awakened and became completely independent of it pilot. That got me to thinking that it's possible that Eva 13 might have the chance to do that as well since I doubt Gendo would leave it up to hope that Shinji would come back. From what the camrips showed, Gendo stated near the end that everything went as expected and that Eva 13 was now closer to being able to fully awaken. The fact that he's not the least but worried means he's got some other crazy plan that went beyond whatever Seele had planned.

One of the nagging questions I have right now regarding Eva 13's role is, why did Gendo decide to scrap using Unit-01 and go the completely different route by creating Eva 13 and focus on the spears?

Gendo obviously knew that Yui was inside Unit-01 from the beginning and yet even after becoming head of Nerv 14 years later he still chose to leave Unit-01 (and his precious Yui) in space. Something is obviously up. It's possible that Gendo is trying to make a real impact by bringing together the 4 Adams to perform the true Final Impact, but the only problem is that Mark.09 is technically destroyed, Mark.06 is decapitated (and mechanically tampered with to the point of ruin as stated by Kaworu), and Unit-01 is inactive and in the possession of Wille. I have a feeling Anno is going to pull the rug from under our feet and show us that all the trolls about building up new units only to shoot them down, is going to finally come to a close.

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Postby palerider1911 » Sat Mar 02, 2013 1:16 am

I don't think Eva 13 will just be left as is. I think Gendo has bigger plans for it than just triggering Near 4I. [Although....from the looks of what happened between 2.0 and 3.0, a "near" impact might be enough of a catalyst for bigger things to be set into motion at some later point, so...who knows?]

As far as it being mobilized again [after the lances are removed, of course], would it need two pilots, or just one? I got the impression that the two pilots [just the presence of their "souls", really] bit was only a necessity for breaking the barrier to Central Dogma and removing the two lances. I say just the presence of their "souls" because Kaworu stopped doing much once he noticed that the two lances they were sent to retrieve were the same. Fighting Asuka, climbing up Lilith's corpse, and removing the lances were Stupid Shinji's doing. Even after being double impaled, Eva 13 did not become inert until Shinji's plug was forcefully ejected by Mari.

After watching Kaworu's head pop though, I kinda doubt Shinji will be in the mood to get into Eva 13 anytime soon. [Though he could be forced into it, with just his presence being necessary for it to activate and resume 4I...]

View Original PostXous wrote:Well, Unit-13 still has one of the two Spears Shinji needs to try to fix the world... So it's hard for me to believe it'll just be forgotten.


But weren't those just lies that Kaworu was fed [just like his NGE iteration] by the Lilin so that he would act accordingly?

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Postby Reichu » Mon Mar 04, 2013 11:11 am

View Original Postpalerider1911 wrote:But weren't those just lies that Kaworu was fed [just like his NGE iteration] by the Lilin so that he would act accordingly?

Can't confirm or deny, since the scenario wasn't tested out.

I anticipate that Eva-13 will be important in some way for 4.0, since it is essentially an Adamic platform harboring Lilith's resurrection, and might at this point contain Kaworu's soul (and with it the only possibility of satisfying that "We'll meet again") along with part of Lilith's (courtesy of speculated 12th Angel / Rei clone antics). Some sort of actual meeting with Eva-01 seems inevitable, with 13 supplanting 06's original hinted role as 01's "dark counterpart". 01, 13; Alpha, Omega; blah blah blah.

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Postby Yokai » Wed Mar 06, 2013 9:33 pm

I'm guessing either Unit-13 will basically be this series' Unit-1, or Unit-13 will be replaced with something else -- again. All the new units are a bit far-fetched, but whatever.

As for the lances, I'm not really sure what exactly those lances are, so it's impossible to say whether or not they are lies or not. The only way we'll know if someone lied to Kaworu is if something is said about it / indicated in 4.0 -- assuming that 4.0 will actually happen directly after 3.0. (Which, now a-days, isn't a safe guarantee.)

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Postby Hiten777 » Thu Mar 07, 2013 8:08 pm

I highly doubt that Anno would risk trashing Unit-01 for Eva 13 after how much of a staple it is in NGE and the confirmation in 3.0 that it does indeed house Yui's and Rei 2's soul in it. I'm going to stick with one of my points that Eva 13 will be the main obstacle for Shinji and Unit-01, how that happens is up to thought.

The spears are definitely important because otherwise there would be no point in Eva 13 even having to wield them if there wasn't some sort of potential they possessed that could affect 4I. If Gendo didn't care about what the spears could be used for then he wouldn't have bothered telling Kaworu about why they need them, could've just had them release the 12th angel and have it nom its core and be done with the awakening.

I believe the spears help the user maintain control as to what takes place in impact since Eva 13 was made to house 2 souls because the spears needed 2 souls to use them. From what I've seen in the camrip and reading, all each uncontroled impact does is destroy being of the Fruit of Knowledge (lilin) and in their place creates beings of the Fruit of Life (Angels). Eva 13 appears to be a combined role of the MP Evas and Unit-01, spearing itself to complete 4I and becoming the controller and catalyst.

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Postby Yokai » Tue Mar 12, 2013 3:05 am

View Original PostHiten777 wrote:I highly doubt that Anno would risk trashing Unit-01 for Eva 13 after how much of a staple it is in NGE and the confirmation in 3.0 that it does indeed house Yui's and Rei 2's soul in it.


If Unit-01 was still important, I imagine gendo wouldn't just let Misato and the gang take it apart and use it as a core for their ship. Still, though, I'm not sure how that works -- but... I guess my point is that if Eva Unit 01 was still important, they probably would have (or should have) illustrated that in 3.0 in some way.

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Postby ElMariachi » Tue Mar 12, 2013 3:59 am

View Original PostYokai wrote:If Unit-01 was still important, I imagine gendo wouldn't just let Misato and the gang take it apart and use it as a core for their ship. Still, though, I'm not sure how that works -- but... I guess my point is that if Eva Unit 01 was still important, they probably would have (or should have) illustrated that in 3.0 in some way.
Well, Gendo already had EVA-13 and one of two souls to pilot it and start his plan... whatever they are. The only thing he needed was another soul with EVA piloting abilities, and Shini just been out of the fridge and be acting quickly enough(meaning before WILLE take the time to properly explain him the situation) he could securise him.
Frankly in 3.0 EVA-01 wasn't necessary at all, the only interrest Gendo could havo for it it's the fact it's Yui's Soul Jar, but anyway if he complete his mysterious plan he will be reunited with her again, so he can afford to let EVA-01 to WILLE. Besides he just can't take it back : it's an humoungous mecha strapped inside a mega-fortress, I doubt Mark.09 could get out with it, even with his ACME giant jetpack, with the whole WILLE fleet shooting at him, and Eva-02 and 08 who would immediately give it chase.

Respectively to Gendo's plan, EVA-01 isn't useful anymore, specially with his EVA-13 now "ready for his Awakening". On a narrative point of view, it's nothing more than one of the good guys best weapons, like it was in NGE, 1.0 and 2.0. maybe it will be an instrument for the final battle with Shinji piloting it for a glorious last stand, but that will be all.
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Postby Reichu » Tue Mar 12, 2013 3:04 pm

View Original PostYokai wrote:If Unit-01 was still important, I imagine gendo wouldn't just let Misato and the gang take it apart and use it as a core for their ship. Still, though, I'm not sure how that works -- but... I guess my point is that if Eva Unit 01 was still important, they probably would have (or should have) illustrated that in 3.0 in some way.

Far as I can tell, Fourth Impact was a bit of a feint to get Seele and Kaworu out of the way. It perhaps also accomplished the purpose of "resurrecting Lilith" [into Eva-13's body]. Gendo can now finish manufacturing his Eva Series, and use the Key of Nebuchadnezzar at his leisure. Odds are he plans to wield godly power to achieve -- I assume -- a reunion with Yui. As long as she's safe somewhere, he probably has a way to get to her.

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How does EVA 13 work?

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Postby Güf Trüp » Tue Mar 12, 2013 4:14 pm

Piloting it I mean. It's dual piloted, but it seems like Shinji did all of the work, to the point where Kaworu couldn't do anything to stop him. Could he lock out Kaworu's controls? Can it even be piloted by two people at the same time? When 4th Impact roles around, Shinji loses any control but Kaworu can still impale it, but I'm assuming this was more because Kaworu used his angel maaagic than any shift in controls. Is it only piloted by Shinji, with Kaworu acting more as a second soul then anything else? What are the piloting mechanics of a two person EVA?

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Postby Nuclear Lunchbox » Tue Mar 12, 2013 5:13 pm

Join tempos, make sure that you're both trying to do the same thing, and let the magic happen. If somebody wants to shut the other person out, it would probably work like one of those dual-steering wheel student cars. One person can take the controls away from the other if they really want to.

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Postby ElMariachi » Tue Mar 12, 2013 6:31 pm

Another thing really odd : how could Shinji even overwrite the control of EVA-13 from Kaworu?!
Shinji only had the few weeks as a pilot prior to the Time Skip as experience, while Kaworu had truckload more : 14 years ago he was already able to fly his Eva from the fucking MOON to impale EVA-01 tens of thousands of kilometers below on the middle of an Impact... it's like impaling a bug with a needle jumping from a building in the middle of an hurricane! And that's without the fact he's a fucking ANGEL, one normally able to give orders to unmanned EVAs like they are his b*tches...
How comes that he loses the control from Shinji, or that he couldn't take it back from him once the shock passed?! Or why couldn't he use his Space Jesus Magic to do something, like paralyzing EVA-13, making it drop the lances, or even knock out Shinji?!
Is Shinji for some reason more powerful than Kaworu? Although when you think about it, Kaworu said he "became the 13rd Angel", logically that would means that the place of 1rst Angel is vacant...
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Postby Reichu » Tue Mar 12, 2013 6:56 pm

View Original PostElMariachi wrote:How comes that he loses the control from Shinji, or that he couldn't take it back from him once the shock passed?!

He eventually does reclaim enough control to have Eva-13 stab itself twice. (This is some time after 13th Angel / Pseudo-Evolution antics lock Shinji out of the controls, as well.)

I've seen it speculated that Shinji's ability to lock Kaworu out is a contingency that Gendo built in. However, this does not explain how Shinji KNEW he could do such a thing, since this is his first time inside a dual-piloted Eva, and I certainly HOPE Kaworu did not tell him, prior to sortieing, "BTW, if you want to cut me off, all you have to do is..." Otherwise -- talk about holding the idiot ball.

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Postby Blue Monday » Wed Mar 13, 2013 3:50 am

View Original PostReichu wrote:Far as I can tell, Fourth Impact was a bit of a feint to get Seele and Kaworu out of the way. It perhaps also accomplished the purpose of "resurrecting Lilith" [into Eva-13's body]. Gendo can now finish manufacturing his Eva Series, and use the Key of Nebuchadnezzar at his leisure. Odds are he plans to wield godly power to achieve -- I assume -- a reunion with Yui. As long as she's safe somewhere, he probably has a way to get to her.

Powerful little paragraph right here.

Taking these factors into account, Eva-13 will most likely have a role in Final.
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Postby ElMariachi » Wed Mar 13, 2013 5:39 am

View Original PostReichu wrote:He eventually does reclaim enough control to have Eva-13 stab itself twice. (This is some time after 13th Angel / Pseudo-Evolution antics lock Shinji out of the controls, as well.)

I've seen it speculated that Shinji's ability to lock Kaworu out is a contingency that Gendo built in. However, this does not explain how Shinji KNEW he could do such a thing, since this is his first time inside a dual-piloted Eva, and I certainly HOPE Kaworu did not tell him, prior to sortieing, "BTW, if you want to cut me off, all you have to do is..." Otherwise -- talk about holding the idiot ball.

Still, Kaworu only regained control over EVA-13 after Shinji lost it.

Maybe like you said Gendo configured the double-plug system so that Shinji's is the "master unit" with the priority over the commands, with an automatic shut down of the "secondary unit"(Kaworu) in case of conflict in the commands : Kaworu wants to stop advancing, Shinji wants to continue to advance --> conflict in the commands --> automatic shutdown of plug #2 --> Kaworu get GENDOWN'D!
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Postby Alpha » Wed Mar 13, 2013 7:37 am

I doubt it was an automatic shut down, since Shinji clearly pulls a lever of sorts to cut Kaworu's controls
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