Does anyone else think Final isnt really the Final

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Postby Nuclear Lunchbox » Sat Sep 06, 2014 11:35 pm

That would require concurrency, something that I'm not bothering to think about until all of NTE is out.

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Postby Gendo'sPapa » Sun Sep 07, 2014 12:29 am

i'd argue the reason skipped over those missing 14 years is because he doesn't give a flying fuck about what happened in those missing 14 years & he doesn't feel there's a story to tell there. At least not a story that isn't just a dull case of fill-in-the-blanks.

SO the likelihood of Anno doing a show about those missing 14 years is very unlikely.

Now someone else who can bastardize it & make it feel like every other dumb anime show out there? That's likely.

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Postby Nuclear Lunchbox » Sun Sep 07, 2014 12:34 am

There's so much character development that took place with the other characters during those fourteen years that I don't believe Anno wouldn't make something because he thought that there was no story to tell.

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Postby ChaddyManPrime » Sun Sep 07, 2014 12:47 am

Actually, I think the preview for 3.0 gave a pretty good idea about what happened during those 14 years.
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Postby ElMariachi » Sun Sep 07, 2014 5:51 am

View Original PostChaddyManPrime wrote:Actually, I think the preview for 3.0 gave a pretty good idea about what happened during those 14 years.

The first weeks or even months after 2.0 yes, but there are much more things we didn't even glimpsed, such as the split between WILLE and neo-NERV, the 12th Angel attack, all the mindfuchery with the landscape turned to core, teeth canyon, FoIs, the Moon crashing... and as Nuke-kun noted, all the character development that led to Misato becoming so cold and professional, Mari and Asuka learning to letting go their "lone wolves" attitude and becoming friends and excellent teammates...

There's a lot of extremely interesting things that happened during the timeskip, concerning both the plot and the characters, and I really hope that it won't be sacrificed (ie never shown) just for the sake of confusing Shinji and the audience.
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Postby Sicarius VI » Sun Sep 07, 2014 11:09 am

View Original PostElMariachi wrote:The first weeks or even months after 2.0 yes, but there are much more things we didn't even glimpsed, such as the split between WILLE and neo-NERV, the 12th Angel attack, all the mindfuchery with the landscape turned to core, teeth canyon, FoIs, the Moon crashing... and as Nuke-kun noted, all the character development that led to Misato becoming so cold and professional, Mari and Asuka learning to letting go their "lone wolves" attitude and becoming friends and excellent teammates...

There's a lot of extremely interesting things that happened during the timeskip, concerning both the plot and the characters, and I really hope that it won't be sacrificed (ie never shown) just for the sake of confusing Shinji and the audience.


I was thinking about the new title for the fourth movie "Evangelion "1.0+3.0" and I have a idea as to why it is named this. My theory is that the final movie will be two parts a lot like End of Evangelion.

Now anyone can put whatever they think these two parts are going to show, but my idea was that the first part would start off right after 2.0 and this part would cover the 14 year gap in between. This would answer many of the questions including what happened to Kaji? Was there a bigger 3rd Impact after Shinji was trapped? Why did Mark 06 become Autonomous? How'd Asuka react to everything that happen after she woke up, and also how long after N3I did she wake up? How was the Wunder built? How was Gendo's plan revealed? How and When did they launch Unit 01 into space? Basically it would answer some or most of the questions left by 3.0. This would be essentially the Flashback sequence that most want.

Now the second part of 3.0+1.0 would be the actual final end of the rebuild series. This part I cannot speculate on nearly as much since there is a great deal that we don't know about post Q's plot. The only thing I will say is that somehow, and someway Shinji will find hope as stated in the preview for 3.0+1.0/4.0/Final.

Now I already see people asking questions about this theory, like about run-time, and because we got nothing for the new preview it must mean that the last movie is in early production! My reasoning behind this is first, I don't believe they got rid of a lot of the original Q plot and they are going to change it to make it fit in. Secondly it has almost been two years since Q has been release, and I don't think in a two year time-frame they are only in early production. In fact considering how short Q was compared to Jo and Ha I think they have been working on the final movie since before Q, even if then they where only in the beginning stages. Also a flash back sequence would allow the movie to reveal information with the audience getting one huge info dump. Now with run time I could see 3.0+1.0 being 4 hour s, 2 for part 1, and 2 for part 2.
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Postby Gendo'sPapa » Sun Sep 07, 2014 12:36 pm

What's the story of those missing 14 years? Aside from Misato feeling remorse over what path she let Shinji go on there isn't one. There's maybe 5 minutes of material there. Those five minutes being a shorthand of seeing how Misato & (perhaps Asuka too) became who they are today.

There's a bunch of superfluous background elements that ultimately don't matter but if the 20 past years haven't made it clear let it be said again - Evangelion has never been about robots vs. aliens from the sky. It's always been about the characters.

If they want to cover the missing years all they need is a quick UP style montage but knowing Anno's style it would more likely be quick flashes of random images.

4 minutes tops would be needed to cover those missing 14 years. Nothing more. Certainly not 2 hours. (Which by the way, no way are we getting anything near a four hour movie)

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Postby Sicarius VI » Sun Sep 07, 2014 12:45 pm

View Original PostGendo'sPapa wrote:4 minutes tops would be needed to cover those missing 14 years. Nothing more. Certainly not 2 hours. (Which by the way, no way are we getting anything near a four hour movie)


Yea I would figure as much, 4 hours is a little too good to be true, but my point was that part 1 and 2 are even in run time, a lot like End of Evangelion with 25 and 26.

Also the entire 14 years can be cover in 4 minutes if it was an info dump, I stated they would give an actual flashback sequence so the writers don't give the audience an info dump.
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Postby Nuclear Lunchbox » Sun Sep 07, 2014 12:47 pm

Since we only know the effects and not a complete list of the causes that led to 3.0-verse, it seems premature to say that there isn't enough material to make a movie. Not that I'm arguing for one, of course. Besides, having an infodump defeats the point of "show-don't-tell" and isn't as fun for the audience.

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Postby Gendo'sPapa » Sun Sep 07, 2014 12:52 pm

I'm not saying a four minute montage needs to cover all the details of those missing 14 years. Just what happened to Misato. Make it character focused & put all the useless crap to the background.

In the end it's not the extraneous world details that keep people coming back to Eva. It's the characters.

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Postby Nuclear Lunchbox » Sun Sep 07, 2014 12:56 pm

And there's plenty to talk about with regards to Asuka as well, don't forget. As to the second point, I won't call it right or wrong but simply state that I disagree with you. The world the show takes place in is absolutely one of the factors that makes me return to Evangelion, in addition to the character

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Postby ElMariachi » Sun Sep 07, 2014 12:58 pm

View Original PostGendo'sPapa wrote:There's a bunch of superfluous background elements that ultimately don't matter but if the 20 past years haven't made it clear let it be said again - Evangelion has never been about robots vs. aliens from the sky. It's always been about the characters.


There's also everything that concerns the 12th Angel, Lilith and whatever crazy thing that turned the landscape into some pipedream straight out of Lovecraft's brain.

Sure Eva is first and foremost about the characters, but when the main source of character development for Shinji is to learn to properly take responsibility for what he did, yet all the evidences we have points toward him not being the one behind the world as we see it in Q, then we need some explanations about what happened, or any character development will fall completely flat.

Besides, all of Q was dedicated to Shinji's character development (Kaworu was a simple plot device, and got the flatness that go with it) and a bit of the beginning of Rei Q's own, that would be a little disappointing to leave all the character development only about those two: one of NGE and even the first two Rebuild movies' main force was to show us the development of a gallery of characters: Shinji realizing that he's not alone and all the rest, Rei opening herself little by little, Asuka realizing that relying on others isn't a weakness, Misato coming to grips with her dual role as the pilots' guardian and their commanding officer, Gendo maybe beginning to be human again at Rei's contact... but then having Q show up and basically saying "well, 90% of the character development we showed us earlier was resolved off-screen, move along there's nothing to see, now we concentrate only on Shinji, we even put him in a fridge for 14 years so we can continue exactly where we left last time! Okay there's a little about that blue-haired chick, but you're warned, she has nothing to do with the previous one!", that would be... poor, don't you think?
Last edited by ElMariachi on Sun Sep 07, 2014 12:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Sicarius VI » Sun Sep 07, 2014 12:58 pm

Also the characters deserve more than 4 minutes.
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Postby Gendo'sPapa » Sun Sep 07, 2014 1:00 pm

Agree to disagree.

P.S. I gotta get this though out there. Sorry.

4 minutes is more than enough. It's not screen time that matters it's ECONOMY OF SCREEN TIME. It's not how long you dwell on a certain moment or beat but how the filmmaker uses what little time they have - all movies are inherently too short in regards to what the filmmaker wants to achieve - to achieve & hit the dramatic beats they want. I go back to Pixar's UP, you only spend 5 or 6 minutes with Carl & Ellie but because the economy of filmmaking is so strong in those few minutes her presence is felt for the duration of the movie & beyond that for the viewer. It's one of the great cinematic romances of recent years. Compare that to two films in the The Amazing Spider-man reboot series, because the economy of screen time is so wasted & the films are so dramatically inert even though the two movies collective runtime is about 5 hours & about 3 of those hours were spent on Peter Parker & Gwen Stacy her death is a non-emotional moment. It's empty. I'd argue a lot of recent mainstream filmmaking fails at economy of screen time so we keep getting these empty 3 hour spectacles that have no emotional pull - Man of Steel & the new awful Hobbit movies are prime examples - & people keep making the mistake that more screen time equals greater movie. I see a lot of people on here talking about how they want the Evangelion movies to be close to 3 hours because The Disappearance of Haurhi Suzumiya was like 170 minutes & if that film did it than so could Eva. I remember enjoying the movie the one time I saw it but I also know I've never once had a desire to revisit it & why? Because the fucking thing dragged because of terrible use of the economy of screen time. Things that should have taken 2 minutes for key dramatic effect took 5 so they could placate the fans who wanted more of whatever nonsense made the show memorable.

I feel there's nothing of worth to tell about the missing years. But, I can understand why people would want those missing years to be told (though not in a TV series, Eva has to take a rest at some point). But, if those years have to be told then it needs to be fast & emotionally powerful so we the audience feel the horror of it & move on quickly. Not slow & sloppy so people can take notes for whatever fan fiction they want to write down.

I'd argue one thing that makes Anno a strong filmmaker is he doesn't dawdle (well... outside his live action filmmaking which while great does tend to drag at times). He plans & edits his movies so they're fast. A less talented filmmaker probably would've made 3.0 last for 2 1/2 hours. If Anno is gonna cover those missing years - something I'm positive he doesn't give a fuck about & understands that the only thing worth going over is why Misato became such a different person - then he's gonna cover it with speed.
Last edited by Gendo'sPapa on Sun Sep 07, 2014 1:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby Sicarius VI » Sun Sep 07, 2014 1:04 pm

View Original PostGendo'sPapa wrote:Agree to disagree.


I see what you're saying, but I just think a lot of people trust 3.0+1.0/Anno to not make terrible writing decisions. Granted we likely won't get a flashback sequence, and a 4 hour movie, I'll agree with you on that. And this of course.
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Postby Ray » Sun Sep 07, 2014 1:06 pm

My advice? Believe everything Anno says is a lie!
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Postby Nuclear Lunchbox » Sun Sep 07, 2014 1:08 pm

View Original PostRay wrote:My advice? Believe everything Anno says is a lie!

Ahem.

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Postby Sicarius VI » Sun Sep 07, 2014 1:14 pm

View Original PostNuclear Lunchbox wrote:Ahem.


That's one thing, another would be that he said he was goning to spin Eva on it's head which turned out to be true. I'll help Ray out by adding- Unless it is proven to be true, What Anno says is a lie.

Or if it is just Generally accepted(like who Shot Kaji, which is Nuclear Lunchbox's example).
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Postby ChaddyManPrime » Sun Sep 07, 2014 1:27 pm

I don't think that he spun it on it's head :huh: I think he just gave stuff logical conclusions, you do one thing, this thing happens in return. Unless consequences count as Eva being spun on it's head.
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Postby Sicarius VI » Sun Sep 07, 2014 2:26 pm

View Original PostChaddyManPrime wrote:I don't think that he spun it on it's head :huh: I think he just gave stuff logical conclusions, you do one thing, this thing happens in return. Unless consequences count as Eva being spun on it's head.


I meant with the way 3.0 went with the 14 year time skip, Anno had Eva spin his head like he said he would, what did you think I was talking about?
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