Anime does not equal Japanese cartoons

[Xavierla]

I know many of you will scoff at me for saying this but think about it for a second. By saying that all Japanese cartoons are anime is like saying that if the Japanese were to make a cartoon like the Simpsons it could be considered anime and I don't think this is the case. I see anime as a sub medium of animation that was merely invented by the Japanese but can be done by anime. Anime is short for the Japanese word animēshon which means cartoon, NOT Japanese cartoon CARTOON. That's just me.

[Reichu]

In the Anglosphere, "anime" is generally understood to refer to animation made by the Japanese* for the Japanese, and has basically come to replace that unfortunate portmanteau "Japanimation". That "anime" is intrinsically a borrowed term that the Japanese themselves use to refer to all animated film is ultimately inconsequential, so long as we're speaking a language other than Japanese.

* Use of outsourcing notwithstanding.

[Xard]

anime = animation


literally.

in fan use outside Japan itself

anime = animation from Japan


that's all there is to it. I think this is simple and useful scenario

[Mr. Tines]

You have to realise that Betty Boop is the spiritual grandmother of all the big-eyed small-mouthed cute ~uguu~; from consciously copying American styles in the middle of last century, Japanese animation has simply evolved in a different direction from a common base.

Then, you have to factor in the "don't lump me in with all that otaku faggotry" effect that makes Miyazaki deny that what he produces is anime.

And on the gripping hand, the Japanese will refer to foreign animated material as anime anyway.

[C.A.P.]

You have to realise that Betty Boop is the spiritual grandmother of all the big-eyed small-mouthed cute ~uguu~; from consciously copying American styles in the middle of last century, Japanese animation has simply evolved in a different direction from a common base.

There's actually a Betty Boop cartoon that addresses that, or at least, uses that awareness for use in a cartoon, apparently because the Fleischer studio was aware of that appeal.

Here it is, "A Language On My Own".

[Reichu]

in fan use outside Japan itself, anime = animation from Japan. that's all there is to it. I think this is simple and useful scenario

It's not just "fan use" anymore, since it's been adopted by the actual industries that sell and distribute the stuff, replacing the term "Japanimation" as I noted.

Saying it's just "animation from Japan" quickly runs into problems; the additional qualifier that it's created first and foremost for a Japanese audience is needed. Otherwise, the term "anime" has to include a huge number of gaijin productions (by such names as Rankin-Bass, Disney, and Warner Bros.), on account of the fact that Japanese studios were utilized.

[chee]

Yes. It does.

[A.T. Fish]

Here it is, "A Language On My Own".

I never noticed how creepy Betty Boop is until now, with that weirdly shaped head and no neck, what a horrendous aberration.

[soul.assassin]

The first animated features from Japan were pre-war imitations from the West, especially that of Walt Disney's early works. These ran for something like ten to twenty minutes, and the characters almost shared the same looks.

From what I know, they're very far different from what's being produced today.

[Hyper Shinchan]

What really puzzles me are the imitations of Japanese anime, should we call them anime too even though they don't come from Japan?
Talking about it, Steel Wings when?

[Atropos]

What really puzzles me are the imitations of Japanese anime, should we call them anime too even though they don't come from Japan?

No more than the Scott Pilgrim movie is a video game, I'd say.

[Oz]

^ Movies and video games are different formats so that's a different case.

The western "imitations of anime" are essentially imitations of the style that is stereotypically considered anime-like. I don't see any terminological confusion in this case because these imitations do not fall under the definition we have established in this thread. It's just stylistically anime-like animation made outside Japan.

[Xard]

yeah, "animesque" or "anime inspired" are enough - just like PSG is anime inspired by western animations and not some odd hybrid either

[Xavierla]

I just think it puts too many limitations on other artists out there.

[Baz]

Well, neither can the Japanese call their whisky Scotch.

[Hyper Shinchan]

^
Oh, they can do it, Parmesan and the likes taught us more than a lesson about it.

It's just stylistically anime-like animation made outside Japan.

Too long, people will call them just anime. More seriously, I'm confused about this topic, on one hand I feel bad when patchworks like Robotech are qualified as anime, on the other hand I'm fine with using this term in the regards of original animation works inspired by Japanese animation.

[pwhodges]

For comparison, would you call Scott Pilgrim manga?

[Oz]

Too long, people will call them just anime.

If it's too long to call them "anime-like" (or any of the words Xard mentioned) then "people" are just lazy. I used the longer and more precise definition in order to create a contrast between that and the definition of anime brought up in this thread.

For comparison, would you call Scott Pilgrim manga?

I wouldn't. It's just a western comic that happens to have perceived similarities with manga, but then again even manga is an umbrella term (in terms of style, content and so forth) for Japanese comics just as anime is an umbrella term for Japanese animation. However, many stores categorize it under manga because the target group is similar and it's more convenient for the stores to have manga and Scott Pilgrim next to each other.

[Xavierla]

But I don't see why it has to be from Japan.

[Oz]

Because that's the only thing that genuinely separates anime from animation in general. It just happened so that Japanese animation in particular received special attention on a worldwide scale and people began to refer to it with a specific term that differentiated it from animation made elsewhere. There isn't really anything else to it other than this obvious fact.