Eva Unit Format(s) and Name Meaning Discussion

Discussion of the new series of Evangelion movies ( "Evangelion Shin Gekijōban", meaning "Evangelion: New Theatrical Edition").
The third installment debuted in Japan on November 17, 2012.

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bladerj
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Postby bladerj » Sun Dec 16, 2012 12:13 am

Just so you guys know, mark is a old designation given to guns, that's why iron man armors are called mark i-vii, the bomb rockeye is called mk-20 (mark 20), the jdams (guided bombs) mk-84.
So unit 06 being called mark means it was to be a combat unit, wich is odd since Asuka eva is the first actual combat unit followed by unit 3 and they were not called marks. Maybe it was the new process of construction gendo speaks of, but if so why is eva 13 not a mark either ?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_%28designation%29

A friend of mine gave me another theory that seems more fitting with evangelion religious theme, mark may be a reference to the aposthole.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_the_Evangelist
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Postby Jinroh » Sun Dec 16, 2012 8:39 am

View Original Postbladerj wrote:if so why is eva 13 not a mark either ?

I don't know if unit 01 being a clone of lilith holds true in the rebuild universe, but maybe unit 13 might be her sister unit. That might explain why the look alike, who knows.

So there might be 3 kinds of evas, the Adams, the cloned Adams, and units like shogoki directly taken from Lilith's body.

But I have a hard time figuring out why they would make something that wasn't really easy to understand in the original series more complex. Why multiple Adams? Why one Lilith? And why such complicated impact mechanics? The fact that there's a time skip between the two last movies doesn't help either, since nothing is explained.

I really do hope they will adress all these issues. It seems overly complex for no real purpose.

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Postby Shinoyami65 » Sun Dec 16, 2012 9:00 am

The term Adams was used only in the preview, and with a question mark next to it... So here's my theory. Maybe there are two Adams and two Liliths? In the TV series it was implied that Adam and Lilith look very similar in their natural forms.Having two Adams and two Liliths would make more sense than having three Adams and only one Lilith.
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Postby Reichu » Sun Dec 16, 2012 11:28 am

View Original PostShinoyami65 wrote:The term Adams was used only in the preview, and with a question mark next to it

"Adams" has appeared in-speech by 3.0. ("Adams' vessel" and "surviving Adams".) There was no question mark; you're thinking of "LILIN+?".

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Postby Shinoyami65 » Sun Dec 16, 2012 11:36 am

Oh. Sorry about that. Going back to the topic, maybe the Eva Series, derived from Adam, is the opposite of the Ayanami Series, derived from Lilith? The Mark. Evas and Eva-13 could be actual Adams and the normal numbered units are clones derived from them.
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Postby Jinroh » Sun Dec 16, 2012 12:15 pm

Since it has a different designation, I don't think it's wise to consider unit 13 as an Adam. Maybe it's related to the key we see in second movie, I don't know.

I haven't watched screener yet (and don't plan to because of the quality), do we know what happens to unit 13 once everything is once again aborted? Does it just fall to the ground, or is it obliterated?

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Postby Reichu » Sun Dec 16, 2012 2:07 pm

View Original PostJinroh wrote:Since it has a different designation, I don't think it's wise to consider unit 13 as an Adam.

It's right there in the dialogue, as already noted in the thread. From when Eva-13 is turning into a Radiant Giant:

01:18:07 {Asuka} It's entering its pseudo-evolved form!
01:18:09 {Mari} Guess it's Awakening...
01:18:12 {Mari} It's one of the surviving Adams!

"Mark Designation = converted from an Adams" was just an assumption. Eva-13 throws a monkey wrench directly into that -- and leaves open the possibility that Eva-01 is the fourth Adams, as well.

Eva-13 is skewered with both of the Spears and takes a hell of a fall, but is probably intact otherwise. Might still end up being important, since it apparently absorbed Lilith's remains. (Remember all of that stuff about Seele wanting a "true Evangelion" to usher in "Lilith's resurrection"?)

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Postby Gendo'sPapa » Sun Dec 16, 2012 2:21 pm

All that talk about Awakening Eva 13 certainly leaves me to assume the Beast is coming back in FINAL.

The bigger questions regarding it are will the Eva even need a pilot? Or pilots? And if yes, then who? More Rei clones?

Also - I imagine/guess 13 or Unit 01 will have to undergo some kind of color change since it feels pretty certain the two Eva's will share the screen at some point.

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Postby Darkwing » Sun Dec 16, 2012 2:50 pm

So they were definitly talking about Unit-13 and not the Mark-09 there? Huh I had been figuring it was the Mark-09.

Well we've had funnels, Rocket Punch, Inzanami kick, and Eyebeams. I suppose we could get the golden super mode for Unit-01 or 13. Or we could get Unit-01 in it's white paintjob from the proposal. Or we could be barking up the wrong tree.

Speaking of Unit-01, who knows what kind of shape it's in. Wille may have had to do some dissassembly to hook it up to the Wunder. And they seem to lack the ability to properly repair an Eva, so it could still be missing the arm. And really, if their just using it as a battery, then it's not like they have reason to fix it.
I'm not sure what I feel about Eva anymore, but I'm pretty sure I don't actually enjoy the series anymore.

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Postby Reichu » Sun Dec 16, 2012 3:02 pm

Just to get this out of the way: A thought I've had about Eva-13 is that it might have been Kaworu's original body -- i.e., the First Angel itself. The double entry system, along with allowing for the "double wielding of Spears" business, is most fundamentally intended to mimic what we oldfags consider the "customary setup", i.e., (A) one soul for the Eva's body, and (B) one soul to synch with that and act as pilot. That Kaworu is playing the part of "resident soul" might provide some explanation as to why he is so subdued and submissive within the Eva for the majority of Eva-13's deployment. However, like a "resident soul", he is ultimately able to "go berserk" (seize control to impale the Eva, etc.).

Of course, this leaves wide open the question of who's in control when 4I starts up, and neither Shinji and Kaworu seem to be telling the Eva what to do...

Another thing I'm totally "WTF" about is that, apparently, Eva-13 doesn't project its own A.T. Field. It uses four free-moving mechanoids to deploy a barrier. An Eva, with two souls inside, and it can't even deploy an A.T. Field? What's the significance of this?

After Mari shoots the Eva with the AA Ammo (Anti-A.T. Field?), we see a cut of what looks like the ammo sinking into the Eva (at least, that's how a description I've seen elaborates upon it), and then Mari says,

01:13:30 {Mari} No A.T. Field?
01:13:32 {Mari} Don't tell me this unit...

What was significant about what happened there? What was Mari about to say?

It would be interesting if, through death, Kaworu merged with 13 and become its soul, and through Eva-13 meets Shinji again.

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Postby bladerj » Sun Dec 16, 2012 3:10 pm

White from the proposal, what proposal ?
If any unit should be white is whoever Rei pilot, i mean seriously, Shinji got a plugsuit that matches his eva, and even mari got eva something painted in her suit scheme.
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Postby Reichu » Sun Dec 16, 2012 3:14 pm

View Original PostDarkwing wrote:So they were definitly talking about Unit-13 and not the Mark-09 there? Huh I had been figuring it was the Mark-09.

The camrip provides context if you watch closely:

- The Gendo/Seele meeting ends
- Eva-13's eyes "expand" (go from slit-shaped to round) and its mouth opens
- The red parts of the armor start glowing
- The red mass surrounding the Eva is suddenly pulled off-screen
- We see that it's being concentrated into Eva-13's mouth; it bites down on it and a circular rainbow appears
- ??? (not visible in camrip), then Eva-13 glows white and manifests haloes
- {Asuka} It's entering its pseudo-evolved form!
- {Mari} Guess it's Awakening...
- As Mari says, "It's one of the surviving Adams!", we see 13's shoulder appendages extend and two halos manifest

bladerj: http://wiki.evageeks.org/Resources:Neon_Genesis_Evangelion_Proposal_%28Translation%29

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Postby Shinoyami65 » Mon Dec 17, 2012 2:18 am

View Original PostReichu wrote:
Eva-13 is skewered with both of the Spears and takes a hell of a fall, but is probably intact otherwise. Might still end up being important, since it apparently absorbed Lilith's remains. (Remember all of that stuff about Seele wanting a "true Evangelion" to usher in "Lilith's resurrection"?)


What? The two Spears impale it? Ouch, I that it just dropped them. I'll update the Spears thread accordingly. About the AA Ammo, is that what Mari blows the Mark 09's head off with? That might explain why it didn't deploy an A.T. Field to stop the bullet. Or maybe the Adam-derived Evas (Mark 06 and 09 and Eva-13) are unable to deploy an A.T. Field for some reason? They are the only Evangelions not shown to use an A.T. Field. Though this wouldn't work for Eva-01, which demonstrates its pro A.T. Field manipulation against Zeruel.
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Postby Darkwing » Mon Dec 17, 2012 8:42 am

Has Unit-01 actually been confirmed as an Adam? Because that was only speculation last I knew. If it's still made from Lilith, it keeps its unique nature amongst the Evangelions.
I'm not sure what I feel about Eva anymore, but I'm pretty sure I don't actually enjoy the series anymore.

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Postby Shinoyami65 » Tue Dec 18, 2012 1:35 am

Well, its marshmallow-white skin tone in NME screams Lilith to me..but who knows? In the original TV Series it was pretty much indistinguishable from a regular Eva physically, so any guesses at its origins at the moment are just conjecture, as we don't have much to go on.
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Postby kuwisdelu » Tue Dec 18, 2012 1:45 am

View Original PostDarkwing wrote:Has Unit-01 actually been confirmed as an Adam? Because that was only speculation last I knew. If it's still made from Lilith, it keeps its unique nature amongst the Evangelions.


This is getting into Impact mechanics a bit, but since it pertains to more to what units are what, I'll post it here. Unless I'm missing something, I think Unit-01 would have to be made from Lilith for Third Impact to make sense. By absorbing Zeruel, Unit-01 has both the Fruit of Life (from Zeruel) and the Fruit of Knowledge (from Lilith), and thus Awakens to become a god.

It's possible Rei's soul was needed somewhere in that, too, but if she were sufficient for Awakening, then Zeruel wouldn't have needed to continue toward Terminal Dogma to get Lilith's body, too. Unless of course he just wanted to wreck stuff up, which is entirely possible. Zer seems a bit more vicious than his counterpart NGE, who didn't feel the need to chomp down and brunch on Unit-00.

So unless Impact mechanics have changed quite a bit — which is entirely possible — there's definitely evidence that Unit-01 is still Lilith-based. But then again, we have a whole thread about Impact mechanics, and who knows how any this jives with Fourth and Final Impact...

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Postby Reichu » Tue Dec 18, 2012 5:58 pm

Impact mechanics in the new movies are quite obtuse at the moment, and a lot of the speculation in that arena relies on things we took for granted in NGE still being true. Consider that Second Impact involved four things called "Adams". There's no precedent for that, and, honestly, unless we come to some kind of grips with what was going on there, we'll likely just be groping in the darkness with regard to everything else. (Especially since Third Impact is called a continuation of Second, and Fourth a continuation of Third.)

Working with what's provided in the new films only: Eva-01 undergoing "pseudo-evolution"* and absorbing an Angel results in the Eva becoming a Radiant Giant greatly resembling one of the four Adams seen at 2I. Eva-13, who is flat-out said to be a "surviving Adams" by Mari, undergoes a similar process: absorbing an Angel and pseudo-evolving into a Radiant Giant.

* ("Pseudo-" probably because the Eva is implied to be not "evolving into a new state" so much as "reverting to a prior one". The term is used again when Eva-13 becomes a Radiant Giant.)

And here's another thing I noticed:

Image

All four of these Evas are unified by the "forehead horn(s)" design motif. I think it could be signifying something...

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Postby bladerj » Tue Dec 18, 2012 7:35 pm

I always thought the horn was a radar dopller or a radio antenna for comms.Also it breaks in 1.0, and i seriously doubt they would bother to regen a new one. But yeah, to us audience, it makes them stand out away from the other evas.
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Postby Darkwing » Tue Dec 18, 2012 8:58 pm

Horns. Deep meaningful signifigance or another one of those "Hey it'll look cool, lets throw it in!" things?
I'm not sure what I feel about Eva anymore, but I'm pretty sure I don't actually enjoy the series anymore.

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Postby Kendrix » Tue Dec 18, 2012 9:08 pm

The horns themselves may just have been a random cool design choice, but I can see them thinking, "EVA 01 is important. This other EVA is also supposed to be important. Let's give it a horn, too!"

As for the "Mark"-designations: Both of them were SEELE's special playthings.
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