Eva Unit Format(s) and Name Meaning Discussion

Discussion of the new series of Evangelion movies ( "Evangelion Shin Gekijōban", meaning "Evangelion: New Theatrical Edition").
The third installment debuted in Japan on November 17, 2012.

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Eva Unit Format(s) and Name Meaning Discussion

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Postby Blue Monday » Wed Dec 05, 2012 10:58 pm

Okay, so this is something that is born purely out of me being a stickler for name/title consistency within fictional settings - So before I begin, let's do a quick run down of all the Evas in Q and their various iterations (with images):

SPOILER: Show
-Evangelion Test Type Unit-01

Image

-Evangelion Production Model Unit-2'β / Unit-02'γ
Image
Image

-Evangelion Mark.04

Image

-Evangelion Mark.06

Image

-Evangelion Production Model Custom Type Unit-08α / Unit-08β
Image

-Evangelion Mark.09
Image
Image

-Evangelion 13

Image
Image
[Images sourced from downloads linked in this thread].

First point for discussion is the "Mark" designation. From what we've gathered in Q, both the Mark.06 and 09 are referred to as an "Adams' Survivor" or "Adams' Vessel" respectively. Note that the two terms are used for a specific Mark unit in two different scenes. I'm not sure if they suggest or mean the same thing in/out of context, but it is likely that these two Evangelions are two of the Adams from 2I in Rebuild continuity, re-purposed. Which could mean that the Mark.09 may be responsible for this scenery in 1.0:

SPOILER: Show
Image
Apparently in a supplemental source, this outline is linked with Second Impact.
Mark.06 and Mark.09 have also both been seen emitting Halos/Rings of Light. The only other Evangelions to have done so as well are Unit-01 and Eva-13 - Eva units which do not carry the "Mark" designation.

So, what's the consensus here? That is, if one can be attained at this point in time.

Is there any other information floating around about the Mark units?

Anyway...

Next is the Grecian alphabet signifiers featured on Units 02 and 08. Obviously they help distinguish the iterations/changes of the Evangelion units, much like computer programs or software that goes through version updates and editions, i.e. 1.0, 1.25, 2.0, 2.1, etcetera.

One thing that caught my eye though is that in the Q theatrical program, Unit-02 has an apostrophe placed before the Greek character on the end, and Unit-08 does not (Look above to see for yourselves). Is there a reason for this? I'm merely writing it off as an oversight in the publishing, but I have been reading people referring to the new Unit-02 as "Unit-02 Dash", and similar other things by other users.

Edit: Added the apostrophe/prime symbol to Unit-02 under the spoiler tag run down.

Edit 2: Added the Mark.04.
Last edited by Blue Monday on Thu Apr 25, 2013 3:07 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Postby Seele00TextOnly » Wed Dec 05, 2012 11:07 pm

I suppose it's possible that Eva-01 and Eva-13 are the other 2 of the 4 Adams, but that's just rampant speculation on my part.
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Postby Reichu » Wed Dec 05, 2012 11:07 pm

Eva-13 is the "Adams' survivor", isn't it? I haven't seen the line in-context, but:

01:18:06 Damn it! It's entering its pseudo-evolved form!
01:18:09 Guess it's Awakening...
01:18:12 It's one of the surviving Adams (lit. Adams' survivor)!

Another odd thing about Eva-13 is how the designation is written. It's エヴァンゲリオン第13号機. Dai Juusangouki. No other Eva unit uses "Dai". I'm not sure what the significance is, if any.

The apostrophe/prime symbol after "Eva-02" is a signifier for 改, "upgraded". (This notation was also used for Eva-00's upgraded form both in NGE and NME.) In-film, we hear them use the spoken forms "02-dash" (ツウダッシュ, tsuu-dasshu) during the space mission, and, later, 改弐号機 (Kai-Nigouki). Not sure what the reason for the discrepancies is.

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Postby Blue Monday » Wed Dec 05, 2012 11:41 pm

Ahh, the apostrophe makes sense now, especially as it's used to differentiate #25-26 (EOTV) and #25'-26' (EOE). So obvious...

:doh:

Very informative reply, thanks.

Also, feels like a bit of a missed opportunity that Unit-08 doesn't get the prime symbol to explain it's ultimately different appearance in Q compared to that as seen in the 2.0 'next time' preview.

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Postby Reichu » Thu Dec 06, 2012 12:17 am

View Original PostSeele00TextOnly wrote:I suppose it's possible that Eva-01 and Eva-13 are the other 2 of the 4 Adams, but that's just rampant speculation on my part.

Breaks down like this, I guess. (Not exhaustive, since I haven't fully processed all of the latest stuff from the spoilers thread.)

THE FOUR SUSPECTS ARE...


Eva-01:
- After fusing with goo-Rei (= core of Eva-00 + body fluid of 10th Angel), "pseudo-evolves" into a Radiant Giant suspiciously resembling one of the Adams
- Halo: yes
- Causes Near Third Impact

Mark.06:
- Gendo says the method used to construct it is... different (actually "unique", or just... "different"? dunno)
- We've speculated for a while that Mark.06 was an Adam launched to the Moon on the 2I blood spout and subsequently excavated.
- Seele seemed to have big plans for this one. But who knows what happened with that.
- Halo: yes

Mark.09
- Referred to as an "Adams' vessel" (why "vessel"? because the soul is missing?)
- Halo: yes
- An onboard Seele program initiates an Awakened-like state, wherein the Eva develops a halo and levitates, freely projects energy blasts, regenerates its head (twice), and shapeshifts its legs into tentacle-like appendages that hack into the Wunder's control systems
- "Awakened" state is covered in a shell of dark armor and lighter underneath; a mark resembling a cross between Seele's emblem and the "Angel face" symbol is on the abdomen; head has a horn and two slits filled with multiple red eyes
- Implicitly connected to the Wunder in some way; Ritsuko says it is Wunder's "original master"

Evangelion 13
- Called a survivor of the Adams
- When Kaworu is "cast down" to the 13th, the pylons jettison and red appendages grow from the shoulders
- Merges with a red mass comprised of the 12th Angel (and Lilith's remains, as well?)
- Afterwards, Awakens / Pseudo-Evolves into a Radiant Giant
- Causes Fourth Impact
- Halos: two (only on account of being dual-piloted?)
Last edited by Reichu on Sun Dec 16, 2012 2:13 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby Blue Monday » Thu Dec 06, 2012 4:05 am

Ever since seeing those final scenes in 2.0 I've tentatively wagered Unit-01 being one of the Adams. Only way to explain the halo and all those other crazy powers (1st phase pseudo-evolution) before it absorbs the 10th Angel, 00's core and Rei II's soul.

Remember in 1.0 though that it is shown having a lighter skin colour than in NGE?

SPOILER: Show
Image
It's possible that may have been a small intended "fix" as, you know, the Test Type looked like a regular Adam clone in NGE - And that doesn't quite add up considering it was generated from Lilith's body.

I was thinking a little more about the prime symbol (apostrophe) and the Greek alphabet characters. It would seem the prime symbol denotes a sort of "second life" or new iteration of an Evangelion post-recovery/salvage. The examples being Unit-02 post battle with Zeruel in NTE, and the blue refitted Unit-00 in NGE (And Reichu pointed out Unit-00 gets this same treatment in Rebuild when it's refitted after Operation Yashima too).

Whereas the Grecian characters seem to track modifications, i.e. seems a couple weeks or days (at least) have passed after that first scene with Asuka in space to Shinji waking up on the AAA Wunder - Because that's where we see the change of Unit-08α to Unit-08β, and Unit-02'β to Unit-02'γ. Both of which are more heavily armoured (among many other changes) than their previous versions seen in the previous scene.

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Postby Darkwing » Thu Dec 06, 2012 8:07 am

If Unit-01 is an Adam, instead of a clone of Lilith, that's a big change. Also it messes up my "Unit-01 + Rei= New Lilith" theory.

Some of these might just be the Japanese love of giving long designations to Mecha.
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Postby Xard » Thu Dec 06, 2012 8:30 am

Marks = Adams

Eva = clones, 01 still probably Lilith clone


I'm certain this has been planned since 2.0 at the latest
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Postby Reichu » Thu Dec 06, 2012 10:07 am

View Original PostXard wrote:Marks = Adams

Eva = clones

That doesn't explain Eva-13.

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Postby Charsi » Thu Dec 06, 2012 10:44 am

Am I the only one bothered by the substantial differences between two custom types of the same unit?

Take for example Unit 02 beta vs gamma, or 08 alpha vs beta. Look at the legs, or the wrists on 08. 08 beta appears more heavily armored than 08 alpha.

I can understand evolutionary changes due to damage like getting your arm blown off while in orbit. But some of those visual changes don't make any sense... at least at first.

Edit: I looked at it a little more and it seems clear the first variant of 02 and 08 respectively are the "space" models that are clearly more streamlined/lighter armored. Look at the legs, the feet in particular.

It makes me wonder how many Evas each 'side' actually has. In the case of 02 and 08, is it one unit being repeatedly customized/modified, or are there multiple variants of units in coexistance?

Mark 09 appears consistent.. except the head seems to pop on and off.. that's thrown me for a bit of a loop right there.
Last edited by Charsi on Thu Dec 06, 2012 10:51 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby Blue Monday » Thu Dec 06, 2012 10:50 am

That's what the characters denote though; modifications, updates. Not something like equipment changes to alter back and forth according to situation.

Mark 09 appears consistent.. except the head pops off.. what?

That's because it gets its head blown off... But it keeps working because it's "special".

:wink:

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Postby WereCrow » Wed Dec 12, 2012 6:50 pm

Could the outline in the red water near the shattered buildings not be where Lilith was excavated? Or has she been inside the Black Moon all along?

Well I guess I think I just answered my own question there. Then again Mark 09 proofed to be another trumpcard by Seele didn't it? Especially since Seele and not Nerv knows how to convert Adams into EVAs.

So how did get Nerv a hold on Mark.09? And how the hell can it be explained that there are more than 1 Adam.

The coffins on the moon. 4 were opened when Kaworu awakens, and he greets the Moon giant with "San ban", the third one. In the series at least it is explained that he is Adam given human form, so to me that seems one too many "sheer" coincidenses and it becomes quite reasonable that Seele already posesses the Adams but don't know how to awaken them. (Maybe they do or tried to during the Katsuragi expedition afterall. Maybe 2I served to trap and enslave the Adams in sad coffins).

Well after thinking about it, it seems reasonable to me that Seele already posseses all Adams, which are in the moon coffins until they arise. They build Mark 06 and Mark 09 and "gifted" them to Nerv probably after the decomissioning of 00 and 01.

Mark 06 becomes a sort of dead man trigger against another Impact by being implanted in Lilith and stabbed by a LoL.

It is possible that Eva 13 is built using a similiar method, but we can only speculate. That still leaves us with 1 Adam that is missing in action though.

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Postby Reichu » Wed Dec 12, 2012 7:18 pm

WereCrow: The coffins on the Moon are Lilin-sized, whereas the Adams... well, aren't. Not to mention, there are far more coffins than there are Adams. The way things are going, the most likely explanation for the coffins is that they house Kaworu clones. Would be fitting enough for a creation of Seele that is destined to die (by "contracted deicide") to be symbolically born from a coffin. The open, empty caskets would represent "failures", in the same vein as the many failed Ayanami clones.

The context of the ending of 1.0 indicates that "the Third" is Shinji, since they talk about a boy having awakened, and Kaworu indicates his interest to meet Shinji. Of course, the visual juxtaposition with the Mark.06 could be on purpose, too. Theories that the Eva pilots have the salvaged souls of the Adams have been circulating for a while.

That still leaves us with 1 Adam that is missing in action though.

Not necessarily.

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Postby Adam » Wed Dec 12, 2012 9:46 pm

View Original PostReichu wrote:
Mark.09
- Referred to as an "Adams' vessel" (why "vessel"? because the soul is missing?)
- Halo: yes
- "Awakens" into a multi-eyed "shadowy" form, as opposed to a "radiant giant", wherein it can regenerate and shapeshift on the fly
- Connected to the Wunder somehow; Ritsuko says it is Wunder's "original master"

Evangelion 13

- Called a survivor of the Adams
- Merges with Lilith and the 12th Angel
- Goes through Awakening / Pseudo-Evolution phases similar to Eva-01's
- Causes Fourth Impact
- Halos: two (only on account of being dual-piloted?)

About Mark.09: I think I said it looks shadowy in it's later (true?) form after seeing the movie for the 1st time, but when I paid more attention upon the 2nd and 3rd time, I noticed that it's not actually. It has a black or dark brown shell and a slightly lighter skin. Reminds me of Guyver III from the Guyver anime (which has been dubbed "Dark Shadow" at times however). The head form resebles that of Eva-01 most, incl. the aforementioned 3 "visors" with about a dozen eyes spread among them. It's really hard to remember. The sketch I did in that other thread is only very vague, but it might look substantially different in detail.

Regarding Eva 13: I'm not sure if it merges with the headless Lilith body. Lilith dissolves into goo after all if I'm correct. Also, another big difference is that different from what has been shown before, the halos are in it's back (one small and one big one), not over the head. And they seem to be attached to the neck.

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Postby Darkwing » Wed Dec 12, 2012 10:15 pm

Unit-13 is an odd one. It's construction wasn't done the same as the Mark-06. Mark-06 was built around something on the moon. Unit-13, from what I heard was in some sort of tank or chamber bieng grown? Someone want to clear this up for me in case I'm confused?
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Postby Blue Monday » Wed Dec 12, 2012 10:59 pm

View Original PostAdam wrote:About Mark.09: I think I said it looks shadowy in it's later (true?) form after seeing the movie for the 1st time, but when I paid more attention upon the 2nd and 3rd time, I noticed that it's not actually. It has a black or dark brown shell and a slightly lighter skin.

I caught this as well. I'm guessing it's black but with all the red shit everywhere, the debris from Fourth Impact, just casts more of a reddish tint over it; so it looks brown-ish, I guess...


View Original PostAdam wrote:Regarding Eva 13: I'm not sure if it merges with the headless Lilith body. Lilith dissolves into goo after all if I'm correct.

I'm adamant Eva-13 absorbs the enormous mass of red goo (Which would contain the remains of Lilith, the 12th Angel and possibly the Mark.06[?]). Kind of chomps it down in one bite, then goes all "Whore of Babylon". At least that's what I can picture from my memory. I could be wrong.


View Original PostDarkwing wrote:Unit-13 is an odd one. It's construction wasn't done the same as the Mark-06. Mark-06 was built around something on the moon. Unit-13, from what I heard was in some sort of tank or chamber bieng grown? Someone want to clear this up for me in case I'm confused?

Here's a thought... What became of the Key of Nebuchadnezzar? Maybe they grew it in that tank like a packet of Sea-Monkeys.

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Postby KnightmareX13 » Wed Dec 12, 2012 11:04 pm

View Original PostBlue Monday wrote:Here's a thought... What became of the Key of Nebuchadnezzar?

hmm that is an interesting idea, the key did have something that I remember being described here on the forum as a nervous system growing from it
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Postby Gendo'sPapa » Thu Dec 13, 2012 12:32 am

I find it curious that Evangelion 13 has no designation. It's not a Unit or a Mark or whatever. It's just 13.

Maybe Eva 13 having been grown in a surrogate womb is far more flesh/human than metal and therefore can't be given a title like the other Units.

Either way, 13 interests me a great deal.

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Postby Reichu » Thu Dec 13, 2012 1:13 am

View Original PostGendo'sPapa wrote:I find it curious that Evangelion 13 has no designation. It's not a Unit or a Mark or whatever. It's just 13.

Not quite:

View Original PostReichu wrote:Another odd thing about Eva-13 is how the designation is written. It's エヴァンゲリオン第13号機. Dai Juusangouki. No other Eva unit uses "Dai". I'm not sure what the significance is, if any.

It has the -gouki suffix that is commonly translated to "unit", although the movie booklet translator opted to render the whole thing as "Evangelion 13". 第 is used for turning numbers into ordinals (e.g., 1st Angel is Dai Ichi no Shito), though it being used together with -gouki (which, as we've seen, does not require dai as a companion) just seems weird to me.

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Postby Adam » Thu Dec 13, 2012 9:48 pm

View Original PostBlue Monday wrote:I'm adamant Eva-13 absorbs the enormous mass of red goo (Which would contain the remains of Lilith, the 12th Angel and possibly the Mark.06[?]). Kind of chomps it down in one bite, then goes all "Whore of Babylon". At least that's what I can picture from my memory. I could be wrong.

There's so much stuff going on... if you don't specifically pay attention to something, you're just gonna miss the details ;-)
View Original PostBlue Monday wrote:Here's a thought... What became of the Key of Nebuchadnezzar? Maybe they grew it in that tank like a packet of Sea-Monkeys.

If I may quote myself *erm, offtopic*:
View Original PostAdam wrote:00:53:39 Gendou: All existance is nothing more than a tool for that purpose.
-Gendo and Fuyutsuki talk. I think it is here, that we see the case with Nebuzaxxx's key (you know, that weird thing which Kaji brought with him in 2.0).

You only see the case, not the inside. I didn't doubleecheck with 2.22, but it should have been the same case. I mean, why would it be something else suddenly...


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