Q mod policy is retarded

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Q mod policy is retarded

Postby Xard » Wed Dec 05, 2012 8:14 pm

The mod policies on Q subforum are (were? I've been away for week after all) way oberblown, ludicruous and not justified by need. It's like handing out "ha ha! No more hand for you! *chop*" punishments for littering.


Of course my ridiculous week long ban from the whole forum has further aggravated me but I was already thinking along these lines before it happened.

First of all the spoiler policy is way out of scale. I can see why it's done and it's justified to very high degree but too much is too much. Most blatant cases:


NemZ's ban for innocious, impossible to get without context generic namedrop

IO's week long ban for using material from film booklet for avatar


NemZ's case was already touched on in locked thread and since mods seem to be unwilling to discuss it I'll let it be for now


IO's week long ban was twice worse and twice more full retard. Okay people, I get the ban on using booklet material because concept art obviously feature spoilers here and there with mechanics, revised character designs for some cast members, new characters et cetera et cetera. It's good general rule. That doesn't mean things shouldn't be evaluated case by case basis because it's beyond stupid construing use of some images as spoilers and IO's avatar definetly falls under this category.


IO used cropped pic Rei's head as his avatar. The same old Rei everyone here knows how she looks like and has looked like since 90s. The spoiler value in that picture was ZERO and if maintaining hardline rule when there's no reason to is more important than having a bit of common sense about it why not just delete the avatar and remind him of absolute ban on use of that material?

Giving a long ban for that is such ridiculously overblown measure all I can do is shake my head stupefied.

Concept art of characters when they're free of spoilerific redesigns are just that and don't tell/reveal anything at all for those unspoiled. I was considering asking if I could use similar mugshot of Pinkie-chan from the booklet carefully cropped because the trailer crop I've used for most of November (though I intend to change it soon) is hardly ideal. The mugshot crops I was considering would contain zero information about her looks and character we didn't know from trailer (pink hair, lipstick, Diebusterish look).

Well good thing I got myself banned via other routes so I didn't need to bother asking stupid questions. :rolleyes:

Here's example of concept art I was considering cropping:

"spoilers" for clinically paranoid  SPOILER: Show
Image


If you're telling me the fact she apparently has hand in addition to neck and face is a spoiler I don't even



As it's own category I could also mention Bagheera's Q subforum local ban for bickering that for some reason didn't extent to his partner in crime but apparently that's "case closed" too.


Okay, that's for spoilers. Then there's the whole draconian off-topic policy which in its causticness has got many stupid bans underway - twice for me.

It's not that there's something wrong with trying to maintain order etc. but some limits, people! Q subforum has hardly been chaotic after the initial 60+ page spoiler summary thread was all that existed in it. There's maintaining a policy for sake of keeping things something fit for discussion and then there's policy that smells of OCD. Very few of the dreaded OTs in Q discussion were anything out of ordinary or line for this forum in general and discussion on topics like ones covered in most Q threads are naturally sprawling ones and to be frank I think it's legitimate to question if every little OT mention in larger context is worthy of going through process of searching for the precisely "correct" topic and thus creating meager, meaningless discussion there instead. Answering short OT question in context of larger post is more sensible than spamming short comments in bazillion threads that won't likely create worthwhile discussion.

Secondly what the hell are you expecting from the subforum? Some sort of massively interconnected hub with field of discussion in every subpart defined with anal accuracy?

This makes posting stressful and pain in the ass more than anything and there are some things which I never brought up anywhere because

- they either touched on too many strictly limited topics (durr split up your post) to fit under any single topic comfortably
- they weren't worthy of becoming new topics or informative enough to generate much discussion on their own.

Also excuse me for considering discussing the crucial differences between Rei and Asuka and what they represent in NGE relevant for understanding the differences in how they're portrayed and the role they play in the story of NME. That whole tangent that got Reichu all bothered again wasn't even fully Ot to begin with and to be frank clarifying some of these things many newbs populating Q forum probably never get to digging up from ancient Discussion threads is good in itself. It was not shipping bullshit.


Last but not least even if Q's OT rules weren't overblown and ridiculously draconian next to forums in general that wouldn't mean they're entirely justified. It's not like the subforum is THAT busy for example next to Completely Off Topic subforum and if that subforum can go by without such policies so should Q.

Secondly the actions seem more or less arbitrary on occasion. I'm not asking for bans for them too (I don't think they deserve those anymore than I did) but why folks like Azathoth who were just as active in OTing the shit out of Asuka thread got no punishment while I got a week long ban? Hello?


Last but not least even if with all above mod policy is justifiable the punishments are overblown regardless. I got banned for whole week for daring to answer quickly some question by Shinchan (IIRC) immeaditly after the draconian rules got reinstated again in one topic instead of replying in another topic because to be frank I thought it was such minor matter bringing it up in other topic was not worth it as it could be tidily answered there without fear of tangents popping up from it later.


Sorry but week long ban for OT posting is in any case moronically overblown punishment. Is this case of use of hammer making everything look like nails or what? It's hard for me to see how OT as innocious as has gone in Q subforum could be reason for any global ban in any case but a week is simply too stupid.


Also if you absolutely have to ban people for these horrid OT crimes why not make it local ban from Q subforum? That already solves the issue and doesn't involve using cannon to swat a fly. You already did that with Bagheera so no bullshit about such thing being impossible to do.

Posting OT in Q is no reason to deny access to forum as a whole. :irked:



One doesn't and shouldn't take too seriously the average /a/ shit talk about other boards in general but y'know, after this debacle I find it a bit harder to simply chuckle about anon remarks about "enjoying your nazi mods" next time EGF randomly pops up in discussion there. :hohum:

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Postby Reichu » Wed Dec 05, 2012 8:39 pm

Alright. I've graveyarded the "Topic, bitches!" bulletin again. It was a bad idea to bring it back out in the first place.

Going to pass on commenting on the rest, because I don't feel like doing this thread again right now.
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Postby NemZ » Wed Dec 05, 2012 8:51 pm

You got banned again? Seriously, WTF is up with this place lately...
3.0  SPOILER: Show
it's like we've all been fitted with bomb collars and the mods have itchy trigger fingers. A conversation that goes out of control might cause an Impact or something, oh noes!


Added some spoiler tags for you. Trying to prove a point, eh? Very cute. See you in a week. -staff[/spoiler]
Last edited by NemZ on Wed Dec 05, 2012 8:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Q mod policy is retarded

Postby Ornette » Wed Dec 05, 2012 8:52 pm

View Original PostXard wrote:It's not like the subforum is THAT busy for example next to Completely Off Topic subforum and if that subforum can go by without such policies so should Q.

Just because I was curious what the actual numbers are. Since Nov 16th:

Evangelion Q and Beyond: 4341 posts
Offtopic + Anime + Film: 1478 posts

Q subforum was a good idea, and it has been awesome compared to the days right after 2.0's premiere, when the Rebuild subforum had at least 3 threads for every imaginable topic and 2 of those threads didn't even have a thread title remotely related to what the conversation veered off to. Most of those threads ended up getting locked because any hope of splitting them into the 3 or 4 unique topics and merging them was hopeless.

Also, last time, we got a lot of complaints about our spoiler policy, a lot of people were getting inadvertently spoiled because of avatars, images/spoilers outside of the subforum, and especially thread titles. I got emails from non-forum users that complained about spoilers with most lurkers of EGF saying that they'd avoid the forum entirely until 2.0 was released in their region.

If it was easier to ban someone from the subforum, I think we probably would have just done that. As it stands, the nasty hack method of performing a ban and subsequent unbanning of someone from the Rebuild subforum makes it almost impossible to do on a wider scale outside of specific extreme circumstances.

While it may have swung a little harshly to the stricter side of things this time around. I'm fine with it. It only applies to Rebuild 3.0 and the Rebuild subforums. They're all judgement calls, since by the time we wait the 2 or 3 days to discuss it in the admin forum, a spoiler or tangent would have gotten out of control. Maybe you would have made a different judgment call compared to the moderator-at-the-time who pulled the trigger, but since the tangents were after warnings to get back on topic, and in some cases, multiple warnings to the thread, I don't think it's unjustified to swing the hammer. People are heeding the warnings much more this time around than when 2.0 was released where a thread would get warned 3 or 4 times before finally getting locked.

Yes, we are nazi mods, at least for the short while when 3.0 is a hottest topic of the times. It'll die down shortly. I look at the result of the policy and I am 100% fine with it.

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Postby Seele00TextOnly » Wed Dec 05, 2012 9:13 pm

Er not to cheerlead, but I would have to agree that Q subforum has been a resounding success. From the very creation of it to keep the spoiler threads segregated to the initial measures needed for topic purposes, to the spoiler policy, I think it has been going over really well, especially considering the circumstances. I'm not sure when the the OT policy should best have been lifted, but now is probably a safe time so that's okay too.

As for week long bans, it's just a week, honestly. Not to dredge up stuff but I remember friends being banned for a couple years for being a little testy or snarky; this is fine.

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Postby TehDonutKing » Wed Dec 05, 2012 10:25 pm

View Original PostNemZ wrote:You got banned again? Seriously, WTF is up with this place lately...
3.0  SPOILER: Show
it's like we've all been fitted with bomb collars and the mods have itchy trigger fingers. A conversation that goes out of control might cause an Impact or something, oh noes!


Added some spoiler tags for you. Trying to prove a point, eh? Very cute. See you in a week. -staff[/spoiler]


Thanks for proving Xard's point. There was not a single spoiler in this post. Seriously, i haven't even seen 2.0 yet, and i hate spoilers, and yet i was not bothered by this post at all. Referring to an "impact" definitely isn't a spoiler, as it's brought up very early on in the original series, discussion of which doesn't involve spoiler considerations here. There is not a single other phrase in the post that could possibly be construed as a spoiler, unless you have Adrian Monk levels of OCD, and this is coming from someone who suffers from the syndrome himself. I've removed the spoiler tags in the post for all to see. Don't like it, then see you later!

By the way, i loved the concept of the spoiler policy, but things like this are out of hand.

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Postby CJD » Wed Dec 05, 2012 10:47 pm

[s]If what I think happened to TehDonut's post happened, might want to make it more clear.[/s] Nevermind, it was edited while I typed.

@Topic: What I think is nice is that the question isn't "Was it successful?" but rather "Was it necessary?" Judging by what I've seen it seems to have been hugely successful. Hell, the whole "Keeping spoiler words out of titles" policy is brilliant and not something that would have come to my mind. But is the overall strictness necessary? Mmmm... yea to an extent. Mod's here are awfully lax if I do say so myself (which I think is one of the good things about this place) so going into Q I imagine a lot of people (myself included judging by my early posts in the Q forum contributing to off topic discussions) wouldn't be prepared to buckle down through self restraint. And the amount of mod work really sort of bolsters that' point, no?

I guess my only complaint is the nature of the ban's. It's apparently rather hard to ban people from Q only? That sort of rules out that option. But even then, what would you do for someone who posts spoilers in another forum by accident? Ban them from everything but Q? So I guess my only thing is that the bans are week long. Yea, Xard got banned twice so you could say he "earned" the week, but I'm not sure it was necessary. I think 3 days would have been fine.

And, for the record, this is coming from someone who's resigned himself to the likelihood that he'll get banned in the future. It's bloody inevitable that I'm going to slip up and post a spoiler somewhere, I just know it. ( ._.)
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Postby Dream » Wed Dec 05, 2012 11:33 pm

I don't check the rebuild sub-forums and couldn't care less one way or the other about anything related to all this.

That said, regarding the spoiler policies, what the mods are asking out of the users really doesn't seem to be that hard. I think they're aware of how extreme they're being with the policy, but they just want to set the limit on the safe side. Might not be necessary, but by no means one could say it's an outlandish decision.

I can't say about anything going on in the Rebuild sub-forums but i wouldn't be surprised if it were as bad/exxagerated as Xard says it is. I get why the mods are being so harsh with the bans, but i also get why it bothers so many people. It might not be the best way to go around things, but it seems to be a very efficient one.
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Postby KnightmareX13 » Thu Dec 06, 2012 12:02 am

View Original PostCJD wrote:[s]If what I think happened to TehDonut's post happened, might want to make it more clear.[/s] Nevermind, it was edited while I typed.


editing? there is such a thing. I guess the mod squad is learning some new tricks rather than just simply nuking the post. Now if we only could get faz housebroken
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Postby UrsusArctos » Thu Dec 06, 2012 1:11 am

View Original PostCJD wrote: It's bloody inevitable that I'm going to slip up and post a spoiler somewhere, I just know it. ( ._.)


Don't feel so down. It's just a matter of stopping before hitting the "submit" button and thinking "Does this contain 3.0 spoilers? Is it in the 3.0 subforum? If not, are the spoilers in spoiler tags?". It just takes a few seconds.

Remember the golden rule: Consider how others feel if you want others to consider your feelings.

Giving bans (even temp-bans) is not pleasant for the board staff. But do understand the reason why we're doing this - we want this to be a forum for everyone, both people who want spoilers and those who don't. And since we have the responsibility of running this place, we want it to stay healthy. It's not personal.

KnightmareX13 wrote:I guess the mod squad is learning some new tricks rather than just simply nuking the post.


We never nuke 'em unless we really have to.
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Postby KnightmareX13 » Thu Dec 06, 2012 1:17 am

View Original PostUrsusArctos wrote:We never nuke 'em unless we really have to.
right, let me guess Elvis is still alive and living in Vegas, the moon landing was a hoax, JFK planned his own death, and Nessie, big foot, and the yeti get together every Saturday night for poker.
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Postby CJD » Thu Dec 06, 2012 1:50 am

View Original PostUrsusArctos wrote:Don't feel so down. It's just a matter of stopping before hitting the "submit" button and thinking "Does this contain 3.0 spoilers? Is it in the 3.0 subforum? If not, are the spoilers in spoiler tags?". It just takes a few seconds.


You overestimate my attention to detail. :lol: Also not sure if stuff between this line and the Knightmare quote was directed specifically at me or not, but if it was directed at me don't worry, I know.
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Postby Oz » Thu Dec 06, 2012 2:08 am

I like the idea of spoiler policy because I try to avoid them myself. I haven't come across anything spoiling yet here on EGF, but I'm getting fed up with this constant temp-banning of most core members of EGF. It is getting absolutely ridiculous. It isn't good for any one of us so don't try to hide behind "we don't like doing this either" excuse.
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Postby Ornette » Thu Dec 06, 2012 2:19 am

View Original PostKnightmareX13 wrote:right, let me guess Elvis is still alive and living in Vegas, the moon landing was a hoax, JFK planned his own death, and Nessie, big foot, and the yeti get together every Saturday night for poker.

You can make whatever irrelevant guesses you want, but if you think we're going to edit one of your spam posts that consist of a single word "Wimp" as opposed to just deleting it, then I guess Elvis is still alive.

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Postby KnightmareX13 » Thu Dec 06, 2012 2:22 am

View Original PostOrnette wrote:You can make whatever irrelevant guesses you want, but if you think we're going to edit one of your spam posts that consist of a single word "Wimp" as opposed to just deleting it, then I guess Elvis is still alive.

I was referring to the other non spam posts that I have posted within the last four months that have just been outright deleted, not the wimp post.
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Postby Ornette » Thu Dec 06, 2012 2:39 am

View Original PostKnightmareX13 wrote:I was referring to the other non spam posts that I have posted within the last four months that have just been outright deleted, not the wimp post.

Well, if you really want to press the issue, I happen to have a log of every one of your posts that's been deleted by a moderator since August:

  • Posted in http://forum.evageeks.org/thread/10052/Official-Departures-Thread/ on 2012-08-23 11:40:10 PST a list of dildo articles. Offtopic. That and a number of other posts, including some from HyperShinchan was split and deleted
  • Posted in http://forum.evageeks.org/thread/12366/News-2012-News-NO-POLITICS/ on 2012-08-25 12:32:58 PST and 2012-08-25 12:51:30 PST, second post edited by you at 2012-08-25 12:53:14 PST. Off topic tangent about dildos, related to the previous split in the departures thread, and along with a number of other off topic posts, split and deleted
  • Posted in http://forum.evageeks.org/thread/6022/A-remake-or-a-sequel/ on 2012-11-04 20:48:14 PST and edited by you at 2012-11-04 20:48:31 PST. Warren Peace posts a bunch of offtopic stuff, his tangent was removed, he decides to post the offtopic rant about his offtopic post being removed, and you joined in. Entire tangent was split and deleted.
  • Posted in http://forum.evageeks.org/thread/13560/TDSA/ on 2012-11-29 18:22:15 PST. This is the wimp post, it was spam and consisted of "Wimp", and it was deleted.

Those are the only posts since July of yours that were deleted by a moderator. Which one of these were non-spam posts? More pertinent, none of these posts could have been salvaged by an edit, as there was nothing in any of those posts that were topical.

And just in case you were wondering, in July:

Posted in http://forum.evageeks.org/thread/13006/General-RML-Thread-2/ at 2012-07-31 13:03:25 PST. Since the FML thread was locked, you (and a couple of other people) posted FML posts in the RML thread instead, they were all split and deleted.
    Last edited by Ornette on Thu Dec 06, 2012 2:48 am, edited 2 times in total.

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    Postby Mr. Tines » Thu Dec 06, 2012 2:44 am

    Let's try and keep this to the Q policy, rather than turn into a general "Mods are trigger happy" thread.

    So far as Q policy goes, it's no different from what you'd be expected to do with keeping commercial company confidential information partitioned from everything else in real life. Anything post 15:00UTC 16-Nov-2012 is under embargo until an official home video release is made -- not "anything apart from this little leak, and that little leak, until it's hard to tell what hasn't been leaked by stages".

    As an alternative to the raps over the knuckles to help guide people to talk somewhere close to topic, we could of course reinstate Eva Monkey's original policy of one "Topic, Bitches" followed by a lock if the drift persisted. But I'm not sure that people would want that :D
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    Postby pwhodges » Thu Dec 06, 2012 5:01 am

    I understand the spoiler policy, even though there may be arguable cases (e.g. how is simply the face of an otherwise unknown character a spoiler to those who don't even know who it is or where it comes from?); but the off-topic thing has me stupefied. It is the nature of discussion that it spreads, with tangents that illuminate the original and increase the value of the discussion as a whole. If a complete new topic seems to arise, it is easy to tell people to start another thread, or to move some posts to do that. But in any case, I do find the level of separation that's insisted on here quite mystifying, and also inhibiting to the kind of imaginative thought that the subject naturally engenders. And bans (of any sort) for off-topic posts? - to my mind that is crazy.

    I had a forum blow-up on the same scale as Q produced here a few weeks ago (when the comic introduced a transgender character), and all it required to control the mass of newcomers was a few tut-tutting moderator messages, a few PMs and just two 24-hour bans (one of which was subsequently made permanent) - none of this constant mother-hen stuff.

    Ah well - do as you will; but I'm sure not taking any lessons from here in administering the forum that I run!
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    Postby BobBQ » Thu Dec 06, 2012 1:22 pm

    It's been a while since I saw so much anal inflammation in one thread.

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    Postby Rj123541 » Thu Dec 06, 2012 8:36 pm

    Hmm, this is not going to be pretty. I am expecting a lot of bans from this alone.
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