Mark.06 in 3.0 Discussion

Discussion of the new series of Evangelion movies ( "Evangelion Shin Gekijōban", meaning "Evangelion: New Theatrical Edition").
The third installment debuted in Japan on November 17, 2012.

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[SPOILERS] Mark.06 in 3.0 Discussion

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Postby Hiten777 » Fri Nov 23, 2012 11:40 pm

Ok, like many people I have only been able to form ideas and images based on word of mouth (keyboard) or video trailers. From what most people have said, Eva 3.0 went way beyond everyone's train of thought, plot-wise. That said, one thing I have heard about that sounds strange is the what happened to the Mark 06 in the movie.

From what I've read about, Mark 06 was still in Terminal Dogma when Unit 13 went there, but that it had been possessed by an angel (whether it be deliberate or by accident). I read things, like the angel was defeated and Mark 06 is now free of its will, but dont know if thats true or not. Please enlighten me or confirm if you have heard different.

I don't get most of that since Mark 06 was said to be the "true evangelion" and was implied to be Seele's intrument to make a "true god." Now to find out that it played hardly any role in the sequel, has me wondering what is going on. Granted there was 14 year time gap. So what does happen to the Mark 06 in 3.0? Is this just another Anno troll meant to scrap the Mark 06 in favor of Unit 13? Or is this just another part of the story meant to give Mark 06 a new importance?

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Postby Reichu » Sat Nov 24, 2012 12:55 am

This is what I've been able to piece together (without having seen the movie)...

- Mark.06 is skewered by a Spear in Central Dogma. (Question for movie viewers: Are both of the Spears Longinus-type to start with?)
- Kaworu says of the Mark.06, "Remodeled into an independent type, exploitation by the Lilin brought the unit to a state of ruin."
- Movie viewers, confirm, please: When Shinji pulls out the Spears from Lilith and Mark.06, Lilith explodes into red goo, while Mark.06 expresses "blood type: blue" and activates autonomously.
- Acting on orders, Rei beheads Mark.06 using the Mark.09's scythe, and the Eva deactivates. However, the 12th Angel comes out of it. [I have a hard time shaking Prometheus-esque visuals of serpentine monsters emerging from people's esophagi, but that might not be quite how it goes...]
- Asuka expresses surprise that the 12th Angel is "still alive". We're also told that the 12th Angel's whole body is a core.
- And... Mark.06's role in the film is over? The unit, sans Angel, is still lying in Central Dogma without a head?

Adding onto all of this weirdness: Central Dogma has apparently been sealed off with a huge lid sort of thing for the past whole (?) 14 years.

So, my guess is that Angels did not magically stop attacking after Near 3I. Both the 11th (whoever that was; some speculation in the Wunder thread) and 12th did show up in short order.

We also know that Mark.06 was modified into an unmanned unit, for some unknown reason, after its first deployment. Perhaps Seele did this because they intended to do something to lure the Angel -- or its core, anyway -- into the Eva, and did not want any pilots to be involved. Once the 12th was inside, the Eva could be Speared and dumped into Nerv's basement to await the time when Seele want the 12th Angel dead for reals, so they can ceremonially proceed with "unlocking" the 13th Angel, or... something. :stars:

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Postby Ornette » Sat Nov 24, 2012 1:26 am

View Original PostReichu wrote:(Question for movie viewers: Are both of the Spears Longinus-type to start with?)

Yes, they looked identical to me, or at least similar enough to be identical without any detailed inspection.

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Postby Reichu » Sat Nov 24, 2012 10:07 am

Following up on this:

Reichu wrote:I wonder if it will be possible to discuss Mark.06 and its fate in 3.0 in sufficient detail without talking about Lilith, too... The scope of the discussion may need to be modified somewhat, but how to do that without making the topic name all spoiler-y?

I thought about changing the thread topic to "Spears and those stabbed by them". Or do folks think this can honestly get back to just Mark.06 with a good ol' split? Does Lilith need her own thread? What does everyone think?

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Postby Hiten777 » Sat Nov 24, 2012 11:14 am

Yea, the point of this discussion was to talk mainly about facts concerning the Mark 06. I dont mind people talking about things in the movie that relate to the Mark 06, but I don't want us to go off topic and talk about Lilith. Maybe someone should make a Lilith threat, but I wanted to talk about things concerning this specific Eva.

Things to talk about:

1) The facts concerning Mark 06 fate in 3.0

2) Possible scenarios as to why it has met this fate

3) What happened during the time skip that might have led to this Eva becoming a "failure"?

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Postby Reichu » Sat Nov 24, 2012 11:41 am

Alright, Lilith thread made. Here's some bits that became displaced from the move:

View Original PostShinoyami65 wrote:I also don't think we learn enough about the Mark.06 before its "demise". They never explained how it could generate a halo and operate without a power cable in 2.0, and then killed it off in 3.0. We may learn more about the Eva Mk. Units in 4.0, although I wouldn't count on it. We also don't learn what happened to Eva Units Mk.07 and 08, either. It seems that several Eva Units were destroyed (possibly by Wille) or were hidden somewhere by Nerv during the timeskip.

In response to this, Eva-08 is a production model piloted by Mari. Eva-07's fate is unknown; we certainly don't know if it's a "Mark" type or not.

View Original PostDarkwing wrote:Kinda lame if they spent two movies building the Mark-06, and this is all they end up doing with it.

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Postby Kendrix » Sat Nov 24, 2012 11:52 am

I guess the angel possessed the Mark6 and they put a spear into it to seal the angel? and maybe that halted the progression of plot, because the angel wasn't defeated yet.

In any case, nerv etc looks like there were a lot more devastating events between semi T1I and Shinji's return.
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Postby Reichu » Sat Nov 24, 2012 12:07 pm

View Original PostKendrix wrote:I guess the angel possessed the Mark6 and they put a spear into it to seal the angel? and maybe that halted the progression of plot, because the angel wasn't defeated yet.

Agreed. That's what I was trying to get at in my first post, but I'm not sure how well across it came... -o-;

Drafts for Eva 2.0 had Seele bumbling about Eva-03 as a human sacrifice, deliberately used as a medium for the 9th Angel. It's possible that these story ideas are surfacing again in some way, with regard to Mark.06's fate.

From what we heard in Eva 2.0, though, it didn't sound as though Seele originally intended to put up their precious Mark.06 as a sacrifice for containing the 12th Angel until it was time to move the scenario forward again. Perhaps Eva-01's awakening successfully put a damper on the plans for Mark.06 -- but how?

Here's the important dialogue from 2.0:

SEELE:
There are more pressing issues at hand.
The true Evangelion we desire...
Its birth and Lilith's resurrection will seal the covenant.
The required rites must be carried out before that.
For the Human Instrumentality Project.

GENDO:
I understand. Everything shall proceed according to Seele's scenario.

GENDO:
The true Evangelion...
All currently active units, including Eva-01, are merely there to clear the path for its completion.

FUYUTSUKI:
And is that the Mark.06?
They want to create a real god, not just false ones?

GENDO:
Yes. We must expedite the awakening of Eva-01.

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Postby balofo » Sat Nov 24, 2012 12:40 pm

waste of a good design
LOL

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Postby Hiten777 » Sat Nov 24, 2012 1:21 pm

Yes, it was a waste of a good design and the fact that they built up so much controversy over its possible use and design, is a real damper. I was really looking forward to seeing what was underneath the armor of Mark.06, that lilith-type giant. We get to see its use only once before the preview for 3.0 and that's pretty much all we know is that it runs on a different power source and possibly has the same capabilities as God-Unit 01.

What Reichu said does make sense though, that Unit-01's awakening probably made them reconsider their chosen Eva's use, since it might be unnecessary to have 2 Evangelions with the power that they need to achieve the "true evangelion." But there are also more things that still give me a splitting headache trying to comprehend.

1) Why make Mark.06 an independent type after its launched? Did they switch to instead making MP Evas out of it now that Unit 01 changed its role?

2) Mark.06 did decend into terminal dogma as shown, but what happened after it went there is a mystery. Might the angel have attacked it while it was unmanned and left sealed after that event?

3) What could the role of Mark.06 be in the role of the "13th Angel" since its now a deactivated independent type Eva with no head?

I still don't believe that Mark.06 is done plot-wise. Seele always manages to find wierd ways to use Eva's and performs seemingly meaningless actions to make them become more Angel-like. I just don't understand the importance of the actions taken upon the Mark.06 and how that would help it still serve a purpose.

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Postby Jinroh » Sat Nov 24, 2012 1:25 pm

Well, correct me if I'm wrong, but couldn't unit 06 just be one of the Adams salvaged on the moon? It wouldn't have needed to be built (or cloned) from scratch like the other evas. Its body is nearly identical to Lilith. (giant of light from eva)

There's clearly something missing that we saw from the preview and that happened during the time skip. Maybe Kaworu headed to central dogma to stop and angel who tried to make contact with Lilith, got his eva infected kinda like what happened to Rei in the original show, and sealed the Eva afterwards with the Lance.

If unit 06 was indeed a "true" Adam, it would be as unique as unit 01 who is basically Lilith (at least in the original show). The main problem is that we can only make assumptions on what we know from the original show, and it might not work with NME. We don't even know what unit 01 or Adam are in these movies.

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Postby Reichu » Sat Nov 24, 2012 1:55 pm

Hiten777: Regarding the "independent type" business, the best guess I can bullshit out of my skull right now is:

- With Eva-01's awakening, Gendo forces Seele to modify their plans for Mark.06
- The scenario needs to be put on hold for 14 years (= time required between Impact attempts??). As a result, Seele must devise a way to trap the 12th Angel when it appears, so that it can be kept sealed at Seele's leisure.
- Mark.06 is deemed appropriate for this. It is made into an unmanned unit to avoid the risk of Angel/pilot fusion, and somehow or other contains the 12th Angel's core within itself.
- Mark.06 itself is subsequently put into suspended animation with one of the Spears (impaled by whom?), dumped into Central Dogma, and left to bide time with Lilith's corpse.

As for whether Mark.06's role is done or not... Someone who's seen the film will have to give us a report on the Eva's final known status.

Also, the 13th Angel is Kaworu, not Mark.06.

We already saw what was underneath the armor, too, at the end of 1.0 and in the middle of 2.0.

Jinroh: It is possible that the 12th Angel might have made it all the way down to Central Dogma, and Mark.06 was "infected" there, but as Kaworu says, Mark.06 was modified to an "independent type", which I'd take to mean "no pilot".


Deepening the mystery here is the fact that Asuka shows surprise that the 12th Angel is still alive... as if she'd previously been engaged in a combat with it, and events had transpired such that rumors of the Angel's demise spread prematurely.

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Postby Hiten777 » Sat Nov 24, 2012 10:04 pm

Thanks Reichu, that does give a better picture and like u said someone will tell us the whole picture eventually. My view on Mark.06 in 3.0 is what I would call the "Teen Gohan" effect in dbz lol. Gohan was made the strongest character in DBZ yet he had only a small amount of time in the spotlight before he was thrown out. This is what I see happened with Mark.06 right now. Anno probably had a good plot going for the Eva, but after they scrapped the old ideas, he most likely wanted to make Unit 13 the star role. I mean what Eva fan wouldnt drool at the sight of a 4 armed Eva? That being said, Mark.06 was pushed to the side during the time skip and made it all out to be a dud in controversy terms. Hopefully, Anno will explain some of the importance of the Evas in 4.0 and what the time skip did. Until then, we can only speculate and wonder what made all the build-up worth anything.

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Postby Clover » Sat Nov 24, 2012 10:08 pm

SPOILER: Show
Image

What's going on with its visor? Did it always do that?

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Postby Reichu » Sat Nov 24, 2012 11:36 pm

Hiten777: Well... even the four-armed Eva isn't anything we haven't seen already. Eva-03 after being infected by the 9th, much?

View Original PostClover wrote:What's going on with its visor? Did it always do that?

It looks a lot like the substance that cores are made of: red, glistening, etc. The 11th Angel is purportedly a 'full body core', as mentioned, so perhaps it emerges from Mark.06 through the eyes? Would be nice to get confirmation from someone who's seen the film, but, pending that, it would provide a grotesque visual match with Mark.06's partner in impalement and decapitation, Lilith (whose disembodied head apparently has empty, bleeding eye sockets).

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Postby Ramiel² » Sun Nov 25, 2012 4:10 am

It seems to me that Mark 06, as a 'true' evangelion served the same purpose for an Angel as Lilith.
In a way that for example Lilith was speared - getting inactive ( and lets say irrelevant or invisible for Angels to proceed it).

Now Mark 6 is beeing put there as a Bait, as the True evangelion might resemble this Thing angels seek out.
Angel arrives - tried to fuse or something along those lines.

For some Reason it doesnt work, or the desired effect doesnt occur and its beeing Impaled presumably bei Rei Q and Mark 9 to freeze the angel within mark 6 untill Seele/Nerv is ready to progress further with HIP.

In that case the 'true-ness' of the Mark 6 served only the Purpose to attract an Angel. How much sense that makes ill leave to you guys(Angels mistaking an Adam-based Eva for Lilith probable?), but that idea was floating around my Head for some time

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Postby Jinroh » Sun Nov 25, 2012 5:59 am

View Original PostRamiel² wrote:(Angels mistaking an Adam-based Eva for Lilith probable?)


In the series Angels were looking for Adam, not Lilith. Kaworu was surprised when he realized it was Lilith.

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Postby Reichu » Sun Nov 25, 2012 7:12 am

Ramiel²: The notion of Mark.06 as a Lilith substitute has potential worth exploring in more detail. In fact, now that Kaworu has confirmed for us that Lilith's body is a corpse, it puts this bit from 2.0 in a new light:

The true Evangelion we desire...
Its birth and Lilith's resurrection will seal the covenant.

So perhaps... Lilith exploding into goo is nothing the Puppet Masters intend to cry over, as Mark.06's true and ultimate purpose will be to serve as a vessel for the "resurrected" Lilith?

And if any of this is on the mark... no pun intended... Perhaps this provides explanation for further details:

- Let us assume for all intents and purposes that Rei 2's soul = Lilith's.
- With Lilith's soul snug inside Eva-01 with Yui, Gendo et al. can keep it away from Mark.06.
- Thereupon, they prevent the satisfaction of Seele's scenario.

View Original PostJinroh wrote:In the series Angels were looking for Adam, not Lilith. Kaworu was surprised when he realized it was Lilith.

It... would be nice if it were so succinct, but there are a plethora of threads waiting for you in Discussion ready to tear into the above statement.

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Postby Jinroh » Sun Nov 25, 2012 8:45 am

Which threads exactly? Angels had various objectives, but I don't remember any angel specifically heading towards Lilith. You could argue that they were already attacking Tokyo before Adam was brought in, but they might have mistaken Adam with Lilith, just like Kaworu did. And it might be the same in NME, we don't know.

If you remember any of those threads and have any links, that would be nice.

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Postby Ramiel² » Sun Nov 25, 2012 9:20 am

View Original PostJinroh wrote:Which threads exactly? Angels had various objectives, but I don't remember any angel specifically heading towards Lilith. You could argue that they were already attacking Tokyo before Adam was brought in, but they might have mistaken Adam with Lilith, just like Kaworu did. And it might be the same in NME, we don't know.

If you remember any of those threads and have any links, that would be nice.


I think you summed it up nicely.
If they mistook Adam for Lilith in NGE its possible the same could have happened here.
The true motive of every Angel is still speculation.
We have been told that they want to start 3rd impact but by which method this can be achieved is left in the dark.
Reaching Lilith presumably one Option, there might be others though and misconeptions of Angels could be based on this possibility.


Now that i think of it, it truely supports this idea that Rei II (if we asume she has the Soul of Lilith) is captured within Unit 01, so that every Possiblity of an Angel finding his 'real' Target is evaporated.

Instead they bait the angel with a 'true' Evangelion which resembles more like anything else Lilith/Adam and can now go on standby as long as they need by impaling the unit und putting it into hibernation ( if we presume this function exist and works the same way as in NGE).

If thats the case Kaworus comment on degrading to the 13th Angel could possibly imply that by 'rebooting' Mark 6 with an intact angel in him is the cause for him to become the 13th.


From here maximum fanwanking ahead:

Kaworu expected Lilth to be there and Mark 6 with both Lances, or both units which each one beeimb impaled by a lance. One for angelic life one for Lilith-base life.
He arrives and see Mark 6 with 2 lances of the same kind. He doesnt understand as to why.
Then he probably starts to understand or its justlater reveiled that lilith was dead the whole time and both lances served the function of freezing and keeping mark 6 and the angel inside ready for the moment he arrives and pulling the lances to start an impact on the conjuncture of lilith and Adam(mark-06) with Shinji beeing the Human control part and Kaworu the Angelic part.
Now with Lilith missing an Angel to defeat and Unit 13 absorbing the leftover core of Mark 6 we have the following:
Kaworu+Shinji+ Eva13+ the core of Adam and only angelic lances.
The key Question is, what is Eva 13 and what is it made of/imbued with.
If this is revealed we could bring more light into this scenario i think.

/fanwank off


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