Rei in 3.0 and Beyond

Discussion of the new series of Evangelion movies ( "Evangelion Shin Gekijōban", meaning "Evangelion: New Theatrical Edition").
The third installment debuted in Japan on November 17, 2012.

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[SPOILERS] Rei in 3.0 and Beyond

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Postby CJD » Fri Nov 23, 2012 7:02 pm

Not often I make a new thread but after looking I noticed we have threads for most of the major characters in the movie but no Rei thread.

So I've heard some varying things about Rei in 3.0. It seems we've went from "She's a soulless doll" (when did people NOT say that about Rei) to "She slowly starts to develop in the latter parts of the movie." Consequently, and to no surprise, Rei Q strikes me as similar to Rei 3 in the TV series, where we went from the developed, human character that was Rei 2 to a very cold, ignorant of the world, doll of a human who, just like her predecessor, ultimately begins to develop as she's exposed to human characters. Indeed, it seems the same happens with Rei in 3.0.

The difference in Rebuild, though, is two fold the way I see it:

1. We have a whole movie for Rei Q to develop. Now, you consider that in the TV series we had something like 5 episodes (god I can't recall the exact number) and a movie for Rei 3 to develop and this doesn't sound like a lot, but given that the whole series is a movie, and it looks like 4.0 might be more character focused than it's predecessors, and one whole movie could amount to a lot of change, especially since we're left with Rei alone in a wasteland with Shinji and Asuka for god knows how long (if very long at all).

2. More importantly than #1 is that Rei 2 is still a variable in the equation. Whereas in the TV series Rei 2 died and was removed from the table, in Rebuild it's entirely possible she's still alive, if not likely. I've read that Rei 2 in Rebuild is stuck in Eva 01 but I don't know if that's official or a fan theory. Regardless, it's a safe bet that she may play a part in 4.0, which raises a whole bunch of questions to how she'd react to Rei Q and Shinji's relationship, whatever it may be, with her.

Obviously there's a whole load of questions in regards to 4.0 that the answers to which will each alter Rei's course in the movie, but I think it'd be insane to say, given the differences in both Rei's case and the plot, that Rei Q will ultimately take the same route as Rei 3 in the TV series.

Another thing I found interesting was that they seem to be really throwing around the phrase "The Ayanami Series" (or terms like it). One could say this is just casual usage of the term and I'm overthinking it but a line like Asuka's that Reichu mentions

View Original PostReichu wrote:Rei Q isn't confirmed to be the third Rei, AFAIK. Asuka says さっきのパイロットね。綾波タイプの初期ロットか。 (The pilot from earlier. She's from an early lot of Ayanami Types?) near the end of the movie, though.

(emphasis my own)

seems to hint at something more, almost like there's quite a lot of Rei's, and not just in the "Rei Tank" sense like we see Ritsuko destroy in the TV series. It reminds, possibly intentionally, of how you'd refer to a piece of technology by it's model type, the "The C 152 series" or something. We can also look back to the 3.0 preview at the end of 2.0 where we see 14 year old Rei and a handfull of little Rei's peaking out from behind her.

The obvious question, I suppose, is if there's more than a few Rei over the 28 year Eva history...why? In the TV series we go from Rei 1, who dies due to unexpected events, Rei 2, who dies due to unexpected events, to Rei 3, who lives until the end (or until she merges with Lilith depending on how you look at it). [s]Now, maybe we're kept in the dark and there were dozens more Rei's between Rei 1 and Rei 2 but that's entirely speculation and has little to nothing supporting it.[/s] (Previous statement unlikely considering numbering of Rei's in Reiquarium as pointed out by svenge.) So if there are more Rei's in Rebuild, why?

Is Gendo using them for experiments? This would definitely seem to go against his character in the TV series, where one of the few times he displays shock/fear is when Rei is in extreme danger, something he notably doesn't do in rebuild, but his character in Rebuild is already demonstrated to be slightly different (how different isn't quite obvious yet). So is he experimenting with or on them? Is he trying to "improve" them somehow, like you would improve a robot?

Alternatively, maybe the Rei's aren't compatible with his plans every time? Maybe they develop too fast or too slow, maybe the clone is a failure of some sort and he/Nerv puts it down? A horrid thought to say the least but Gendo never was squeamish about doing what "needs to be done."


Anyway, this is all just speculation. Like I said, it's entirely possible, if not likely, I'm over thinking things but I thought if I was going to make a thread about Rei I might as well give it a kickstart rather than just go "Rei thread? Rei thread." So feel free to utterly dismantle my theories, tell me my sources or interpretations are wrong, and call me an idiot. Or don't, I don't care, I just thought we could use a Rei thread for Rei posts.

PS: I'm not sure how the numbering of Rei works in Rebuild, so I've referred to the Rei from 1.0 and 2.0 as "Rei 2" since she fills the role of Rei 2 in the TV series.
Last edited by CJD on Mon Nov 26, 2012 4:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby Sailor Star Dust » Fri Nov 23, 2012 7:22 pm

We know that the Rei in 1.0 and 2.0 is Rei 2 because of Rei's collar in 2.0's plant (dummy plug plant?). I'm not 100% sure if Q's Rei is Rei 3 but Japanese wikipedia claims she was. I corrected that informative thread I have to say "apparently" until we find out from a proper source (3.0 CRC? 3.33 BD/DVD?).

Though it would be interesting if this Q Rei is actually Rei 1 as a "twist".
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Postby CJD » Fri Nov 23, 2012 7:38 pm

View Original PostSailor Star Dust wrote:We know that the Rei in 1.0 and 2.0 is Rei 2 because of Rei's collar in 2.0's plant (dummy plug plant?).


See, that I didn't know (guess I never paid attention to it or forgot).

I'm not 100% sure if Q's Rei is Rei 3 but Japanese wikipedia claims she was. I corrected that informative thread I have to say "apparently" until we find out from a proper source (3.0 CRC? 3.33 BD/DVD?).


Yea, I mean I wasn't trying to call you out or anything. It was just Reichu's post lit a spark in my head about how odd it was to refer to Rei Q in that way, and how the term "Ayanami Series/Types" seems to be used. And then I was going to quote that in a Rei thread, so I didn't derail your thread, but I noticed there was no Rei thread so I decided to make one. But yea, I didn't want to make an OP that amounted to "Rei thread? Rei thread." so I thought it'd be proper to throw in some good ol' speculah to keep the thread warm.

And indeed, that would be a twist. At the very least something I didn't consider.

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Postby Hyper Shinchan » Fri Nov 23, 2012 7:44 pm

About CJD's point number one, personally I fear that there won't be enough time to properly develop Rei Q, unless there will be another timeskip with more chunks of characters' development happening off-screen. Rei Q could end up dying just after realising that she's her own person, a typical anime cliché, or maybe she could even merge with the phantom Rei II already mentioned by CJD, this second theory looks less plausible to me but you never know with Anno, the master troll.
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Postby bobbyfischer's ghost » Fri Nov 23, 2012 7:51 pm

I wonder if at one point in 4.0 we might see Yui's soul combine with QRei's body. though it's just a thought
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Postby Darkwing » Fri Nov 23, 2012 8:08 pm

I would not be surprised to find out that Gendo has other Rei's out there. We are missing a few Eva's, and they probably would need pilots.

There's also the question of what would happen if Q Rei met Poka Rei. We might see Shinji accept Q Rei more as bieng her own person, and we may get to see how Asuka reacts to her.
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Postby Ornette » Fri Nov 23, 2012 9:04 pm

Don't know if it was mentioned in one of the other threads, but there's a shot of a room with what looks like a bunch of square sections, each with a severed head in it that looks like Rei. Don't know if they were used for experiments, whether they had died, or whether they were just failed cloning attempts. It sort of reminded me of the Eva graveyard from NGE.

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Postby Hyper Shinchan » Fri Nov 23, 2012 9:21 pm

It's been mentioned but I still can't even picture it in my mind. Would you mind giving some details about their expressions, or lack thereof? Were their eyes wide open or closed? Well, whatever you remember about that scene would help, I'm curious about the level of creepiness.
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Postby Sailor Star Dust » Fri Nov 23, 2012 9:25 pm

Hope this is the right thread, but apparently Lilith's head turned into either Yui's or Rei's before exploding? Can somebody confirm which character and when this happened? I've heard it was Yui's head/face but Rei would make the most sense if you go with NGE-lore.
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Postby Coral » Fri Nov 23, 2012 9:29 pm

I've heard it mentioned in various places that EVA 09 has trouble generating an AT field, which is why it gets decapitated almost immediately. If true, that's an interesting thing to note. Rei's always had the worst sync ratio out of the pilots, presumably because of the artifical nature of her bond. If she can't project an AT field, the whole soulless thing might not just be a euphemism. Rei Q might lack or have a severely reduced soul, either because large portion of it is tied up somewhere else (In Unit 01/The SDAT/Shinji/) or because it's become diminished and split up over multiple iterations and clones.

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Postby Ornette » Fri Nov 23, 2012 9:55 pm

View Original PostHyper Shinchan wrote:It's been mentioned but I still can't even picture it in my mind. Would you mind giving some details about their expressions, or lack thereof? Were their eyes wide open or closed? Well, whatever you remember about that scene would help, I'm curious about the level of creepiness.

It happened pretty quickly, and if memory serves correct, there were smiles on some of the faces? Don't remember any of the eyes, but I remember some of them were covered by hair. The place had a sort of antiseptic look, like maybe a lab, and not a junk yard or dumping ground, it was really dark. The scene was kind of creepy if not only because there were a bunch of heads in square slots.

@SSD I thought it was Rei's face, but I guess it could have been Yui's, I don't really remember what Yui's face in rebuild looked like so I sort of just assumed it was Rei.

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Postby Reichu » Fri Nov 23, 2012 10:08 pm

Here's a bit that's relevant to the discussion, as well: when Shinji asks Kaworu why Rei couldn't be used for the dual piloting operation, he replies,

No, a Lilin imitation cannot be used.
Their souls' placement is not right for it. [lit. differs (from the usual condition)]

Hmm...

Also relevant to Rei stuffs, the 12th Angel takes on a Rei-like form (reported as a giant head, is all I know) and starts giggling in the usual creepy way (very clear in the audio rip, around 1h15m), triggering immediate existential terror in Q!Rei. (This scene is probably where the "Rei staring in horror" shot from the trailers is from.)

This is...
This is... me?
What am I...?

I'm quite curious as to why an Angel that's been chilling in Mark.06 and (only??) attacks Eva-13 would take on Rei's form.

BTW, Ornette (or anyone else who saw the movie), I saw a Q montage-style fanart that had a Rei head in the middle with empty, bleeding eye sockets, and immediately thought that it must be the severed Lilith head. Do you remember if her eyes were missing? (Would make sense, since the mask had bolts going in through Lilith's eyes.)

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Postby EveryoneGotTurnedIntoTang » Fri Nov 23, 2012 11:03 pm

View Original PostReichu wrote:BTW, Ornette (or anyone else who saw the movie), I saw a Q montage-style fanart that had a Rei head in the middle with empty, bleeding eye sockets, and immediately thought that it must be the severed Lilith head. Do you remember if her eyes were missing? (Would make sense, since the mask had bolts going in through Lilith's eyes.)


Hmm, I haven't seen the movie, but I've heard there's a scene where after Fuyutski explains Rei's origins to Shinji, it's revealed there's a wall of stuffed Rei heads with hollowed eyes and mouths. Perhaps that's the reference?

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Postby Ornette » Sat Nov 24, 2012 1:18 am

If it's bloody, it's probably referring to the Lilith's head thing, because I don't remember there being blood in the collection of Rei heads (it was dark). The hallowed out eyes sounds familiar, but I can't remember if it was from the giant head or the collection of heads.

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Postby LiLi » Sat Nov 24, 2012 2:50 am

View Original PostReichu wrote:BTW, Ornette (or anyone else who saw the movie), I saw a Q montage-style fanart that had a Rei head in the middle with empty, bleeding eye sockets, and immediately thought that it must be the severed Lilith head. Do you remember if her eyes were missing? (Would make sense, since the mask had bolts going in through Lilith's eyes.)


IIRC, yesterday I noticed the eyes were missing and at some point the eye-sockets started bleeding.
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Postby NemZ » Sat Nov 24, 2012 2:54 am

Hmm... I had a theory about that headless corpse possibly being grown from nebuchadnezzar's key since that's exactly what the key was. The giant head being eyeless and also going to goo at the same time however does fit very nicely with the previous views of lilith down in nerv's basement.
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Postby LiLi » Sat Nov 24, 2012 3:00 am

View Original PostNemZ wrote: nebuchadnezzar's key


IIRC, It was shown that Gendo still had some box, which I thought was the one holding the N. Key (although I might be mistaken...)
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Re: [SPOILERS] Rei in 3.0 and Beyond

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Postby bladerj » Sat Nov 24, 2012 4:39 pm

View Original PostCJD wrote:N.

Is Gendo using them for experiments? This would definitely seem to go against his character in the TV series, where one of the few times he displays shock/fear is when Rei is in extreme danger, something he notably doesn't do in rebuild, .


Did you even watch the first movie ? the scene is the same as in the series,and in the end Rei sees gendo in Shinji.
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Re: [SPOILERS] Rei in 3.0 and Beyond

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Postby Seele00TextOnly » Sat Nov 24, 2012 6:37 pm

View Original Postbladerj wrote:Did you even watch the first movie ? the scene is the same as in the series,and in the end Rei sees gendo in Shinji.
Um actually she doesn't see Gendo in Shinji in the movie; that's just the series.
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Postby Darkwing » Sat Nov 24, 2012 6:46 pm

Reading some of the stuff over in the translation thread, I fear for Poka Rei. Seems like Gendo has deliberatly set up her bieng trapped in Unit-01 to get Shinji to do what he needs for his own plans. So Shinji will probably end up having to let her go, or even worse kill her himself. That's gonna be sad.
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