Thoughts about Mari

Discussion of the new series of Evangelion movies ( "Evangelion Shin Gekijōban", meaning "Evangelion: New Theatrical Edition").
The third installment debuted in Japan on November 17, 2012.

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Postby Sachi » Sat Oct 11, 2014 9:35 pm

To me, Mari simply symbolizes the new side of Evangelion introduced in the films; along with her introduction in Ha, we're met with a variety of other new details that define NTE from the original, such as the Vatican Treaty, the IPEA, the Mark.06, etc. Eventually these changes culminate and lead us to the radically different setting we see in Q. Mari is the curve ball thrown into the equation to add to the mystery and bring the story into new territory; her backstory is unimportant because she exists only as an X factor.
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Postby xyz346 » Sun Oct 12, 2014 1:16 am

I've always thought that Mari was connected to Asuka in some way. We don't really know much about either of them, so for the sake of convenience in FINAL it would make sense for their stories to be intermeshed. That said, I really don't want it so that Mari is Shinji and Asuka's kid from the future, or a clone of Kyoko...those would be too predictable.
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Postby ElMariachi » Sun Oct 12, 2014 5:46 am

^
Well, Mari fought as an Eva pilot alongside Asuka for years, so this connection already exists and is very strong by the time of Q, I don't really think that it would be useful to give her another bond to Asuka or one with Shinji (long lost sister, clone, time traveling baby...), why Mari must absolutely be related to the other Eva pilots, can't she be her own person, like Touji was in NGE?
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Seriously, that is the most fananked theory I've ever heard, more than Mari being Marty McFly travelling through time to keep her parents (Asushin) together. -- Jäeger

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Postby xyz346 » Sun Oct 12, 2014 12:47 pm

^
To be honest, I think there is a possibility we won't learn anything about Mari. Considering the pace at which FINAL must go, it's more likely that we'll be focused on the present rather than the very distant past, unless it turns out that there's something plot-crucial about it.

And yes, I agree that Mari and Asuka definitely share a very strong bond by the time of Q. That might be another reason why we might not learn anything more about their past at all.

I just think that there are far too many red flags (being able to pilot the same EVA, the whole -name naming sequence) for there not to be some kind of connection, but it could all turn out for nothing.
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Postby ElMariachi » Sun Oct 12, 2014 2:04 pm

View Original Postxyz346 wrote:I just think that there are far too many red flags (being able to pilot the same EVA, the whole -name naming sequence) for there not to be some kind of connection, but it could all turn out for nothing.

The thing is that Mari isn't the only one able to pilot more than one Eva, hell by the time of Q, every known pilot has been seen piloting at least two different Evas: Shinji piloted 01 and 13, Asuka 02 and 03, Mari 05 and 02 and 08, Kaworu 06 and 13, and Rei... well it's complicated with the whole clone and soul placement thing, but a Ayanami type was seen piloting units 00 and 09.

The only Eva that seems locked to a specific pilot is Unit 01 due to Yui being its control system and thus deciding who pilots it or not, which translate by only Shinji, and eventually Rei (although it apparently comport unspecified great risks)
Last edited by ElMariachi on Mon Oct 13, 2014 8:31 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Seriously, that is the most fananked theory I've ever heard, more than Mari being Marty McFly travelling through time to keep her parents (Asushin) together. -- Jäeger

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Postby BlueBasilisk » Sun Oct 12, 2014 10:38 pm

She doesn't need a huge labyrinthian back story or anything, but I would at least like to know who she was working for/with during 2.0 and what that whole subplot was about. If we get any history on Wille in the last movie, I have a feeling it will be related to that.

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Postby Ray » Sun Oct 12, 2014 11:13 pm

We may never know. . .
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Postby xyz346 » Mon Oct 13, 2014 1:25 am

^^^
Ah, but I'm talking about an EVA that happens to be unique. The one possessing a beast mode yet to be replicated by any other EVA. It could be that Unit-02 could have its own rules as well, like Unit-01.
That's my reason why, at the very least.

Connected or not connected, believe what you like. FINAL will come and we'll have our answer then.
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Postby ElMariachi » Mon Oct 13, 2014 2:53 am

View Original Postxyz346 wrote:^^^
Ah, but I'm talking about an EVA that happens to be unique. The one possessing a beast mode yet to be replicated by any other EVA. It could be that Unit-02 could have its own rules as well, like Unit-01.
That's my reason why, at the very least.

Connected or not connected, believe what you like. FINAL will come and we'll have our answer then.

We don't know if Unit 02's Beast Mode is a feature unique to it, 03, 04 and 05 were destroyed before completion, and we didn't saw enough otf08 yet, but I'm sure that it does have some tricks up its sleeve too.
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EoTV is a therapist, EoE is a drill instructor. -- Chuckman
Seriously, that is the most fananked theory I've ever heard, more than Mari being Marty McFly travelling through time to keep her parents (Asushin) together. -- Jäeger

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Postby Shamsiel-kun » Mon Oct 13, 2014 5:52 am

View Original PostPen-Pen02 wrote:
- She's British and, of course, drinks tea
- She loves LCL (I think she could live inside an EVA without problems)


Some types of tea have the same color as LCL. Mari's taste buds are dysfunctional and she doesn't notice the difference.

- She loves piloting an EVA
- She loves pink


Mari needs new glasses. Everything looks like a blotch of color to her.

- She puts a cat face and to say nya-nya, I think so (in conclusion, she's a cat XD)
- She lives a carefree life


Like Nuku Nuku, she has a cat brain.

- She puts nicknames to people


In Mari-language, these are merely ways of categorizing people for later use.

- She's an excellent EVA pilot (in beast mode and as a sniper)
- She has the curse of EVA (does she has it or simply she can't grow old since before?)
- She knows more than she appears (Because of her parents or she's older than appears?... Were Mari's parents alive before Third Impact?... Does she have a familiar?)


Conclusion: Mari is a cat-brained eternal-living android who likes lapping up tea and has eyesight problems, but is also pre-programmed with combat routines and inside knowledge of the situation, some of which she cannot fully reveal due to filters that require a specific situation to be lifted.

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Postby UrsusArctos » Mon Oct 13, 2014 8:01 am

Frankly, I'm with everyone who says that Mari needs a backstory. She's done well enough so far without one, but to end the series with Mari being a total enigma really would mess things up, especially after all the changes she's brought about.

Ten to one Eva-08 has a Mari-specific combat mode - something like the Beast or Mode 777 - so it's possible we'll see that in Shin.

View Original PostElMariachi wrote:The only Eva that seems locked to a specific pilot is Unit 01 due ti Yui being its control system and thus deciding who pilots it or not, which translate by only Shinji, and eventually Rei (although it apparently comport unspecified great risks)


The great risks Gendo and Fuyutsuki were talking about seem to be either the possibility of Rei being absorbed into the Eva (as she was in 3.0) or awakening it prematurely.
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Postby NemZ » Wed Oct 15, 2014 5:27 pm

Sent all the Yui/Rei stuff HERE.
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Postby Charsi » Mon Nov 24, 2014 2:39 pm

Has this been discussed yet?

[removed]

E: Thanks for the linkage. I noticed a lot of stuff in that thread is redacted so I have removed the link here to be super safe. Follow the link in the next post if you really care.
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Postby pwhodges » Mon Nov 24, 2014 2:57 pm

Here, all properly spoilered.
SPOILER: Show
Of course, even mentioning it here is a spoiler...
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Postby WereCrow » Fri Nov 28, 2014 4:56 am

(Edit: Spoilered up now, due to reasons.)
SPOILER: Show

Finally we are getting some information about what and who Mari is. The way she acted in the manga fit very well to how she is in Rebuild. Competitive, highly intelligent but also understanding and careing.

Her age is mentioned at least two times so it appears to me that this was something to be stressed. In order to show how little she has aged in rebuild?

This would imply that she has been afflicted by the "curse of EVA" much longer. Secondly it would proof that this curse really exists and is not just some kind of dramaturgical instrument used to stress Shinji's innability to grow up. ( I would also refute this theory by simply stating that Asuka has this curse as well, for her own reasons.)

This would further imply that Mari would have had some kind of exposure working on EVAs and/or angels which sounds reasonable as she ends up at as a testpilot at a NERV base.

Very interesting is also her relationship to Yui. Maybe her competitive feelings (possibly when hearing that Yui is wanting to conduct a core contact experiment) lead her to conducting a similar experiment that gave her that curse. (As both Asuka and Shinji had similiar contact events with the cores of EVA-04 and EVA-01 respectively)

I like the idea that they used the manga to bridge the gap between Mari's past and present at least somewhat. But this also raises the question if it can be considered canon with the rest of the rebuilds. This is made clear by the fact that Gendo's surname in that chapter is still Rikobungi which was changed in the movies.

So now we come to two possibilities as to how this particular chapter connects to the rest of NGE and Rebuild.

#1 Let's presume Mari has already existed during the original Series but she moved on to work on a project in Halifax that may or may not have been connected to Seele and (Gehirn)Nerv. She was never heard of before and has no influence on the actual story. What happened in that Manga chapter happened in the context of the series entirely. So its just something to tease the fans with.

#2 This is IT. Truth about Mary, heaven and hell, fire and brimstone, cats and dogs living together...
Finally some closure to all of our speculation, fan-wanking and head-cannon-up-spinning. This chapter might also lead us to a clue to the omínous photo that might or might not have prooven her existance as an ever young teenage student way before the time of the movies. It would be a good idea to reinvestigate that photo in light of this new context.

As you can see I am incredibly excited about this new developement and I am very glad to see that NGE isn't dead.
[/spoiler]
Last edited by WereCrow on Fri Nov 28, 2014 10:49 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby ElMariachi » Fri Nov 28, 2014 5:52 am

Dude we... we just stressed in the post just above yours about the fact that what happened in the manga is still considered a spoiler and should be tagged as such! :facepalm:
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Kensuke is a military otaku who, at one point, is shown creepily taking pictures of girls to sell. He would clearly fit right in as an animator at Studio Gainax. -- Compiling_Autumn
EoTV is a therapist, EoE is a drill instructor. -- Chuckman
Seriously, that is the most fananked theory I've ever heard, more than Mari being Marty McFly travelling through time to keep her parents (Asushin) together. -- Jäeger

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Postby Sailor Star Dust » Fri Nov 28, 2014 1:22 pm

The thing is, about any of that, is different canons:

SPOILER: Show
This post here. https://forum.evageeks.org/post/763809/SPOILER-TAGS-Last-Eva-Manga-Volume-Features-New-Character/#763809 Yui's maiden name is different in NGE (Ikari) vs NTE (Ayanami), so how would Mari being the same exact person in the manga and Rebuild work? It's the same thing as different characters having different versions of them in each continuity (Shinji in ANIMA, NGE anime, the manga, Rebuild, etc is different in each story).

Or, it's like I said before in referencing Haruhi: Mari's the slider, Kaworu's the time-traveler, and Rei's the alien. :lol:
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Postby BlueBasilisk » Tue Jul 21, 2015 2:52 am

Sorry about dusting off this thread after so long, but I had some thoughts about Mari and her mysterious benefactors and this seemed like the best place for it.

A lot of people in this thread speculate that Mari was working with Kaji, the IPEA, or another mystery group that formed the nucleus for Wille, but maybe the situation's more simple than that and Mari's working with the same group she's with in the beginning of the movie: Nerv Bethany.

We know what whoever Mari is working for is working in conjunction with Euro as evidenced by her phone call and later by the unfreezing and launch of Unit 02, which was still under the Third Branch's ownership. They'd already shown the ability to mobilize an Eva on Japanese soil without HQ's input with Task 02.

Bethany is a joint European/Russian operation that apparently doesn't fall under the Third Branch's "Euro" umbrella, but the Unit 05 situation provides a solid motivation for them to jointly spy on/take covert action against the Japanese branch. As Ritsuko says, Europe and Russia place blame for Unit 05's sabotage on Asia's shoulders, and with it gone, Unit 02 is the only active Evangelion Europe/Russia has. Europe still owns the Eva, but it seems that Asuka has been signed over to Japanese jurisdiction. They can still take her out of the pilot seat however.

Europe has one branch with an Eva-less pilot and one with an Eva in a suspect foreign base with a pilot they may not have authority over anymore, and a joint grievance with Japan. Teaming up and having Mari covertly enter Japan to take control of Unit 02 if needed makes quite a bit of sense in that light, as does keeping Unit 02 in that political grey area. If they suspect Gendo disposed of Unit 05, then they still have their hands on an Eva to use against him if something comes up. With Units 3, 4, and 5 gone, Gendo would control all the Evas except for 02 and the top secret Mark.06.

Whoever mobilized Unit 02 had access to both Unit 02's core data and Mari's pilot data to overwrite the access key. It's not impossible that some other agency could have Mari's data but we know for a fact that the Bethany team does. They also sent Mari equipped with the new Unit 05 plugsuit that was hinted at during the first scene at said base. Kaji being the one to bring it up makes it a little less clear if the plugsuits are produced in house or elsewhere, but the former seems to be the case.

Some of the background voices in both scenes sound similar to me, especially the two prominent female voices. It's really hard to tell for sure with that heavy loudspeaker audio filter in the second scene! :lol:

I think this all nicely matches up with the little glimpses we get of Mari in 2.22 and 3.33 and Sakamoto's statement that Mari is a forthright character with no hidden agenda. She's an Eva fetishist who's just dying to pilot and loses her Eva after 5 minutes. If she was offered the chance tot take command of the slick, state of the art Unit 02, how could she resist? Wille gives her an Eva all her own and we never see her outside the entry plug! :tongue:

Mari doesn't seem to possess any knowledge someone in that position wouldn't have, at least not in 2.22. Her implied familiarity with the franchise's darker secrets comes from 3, and Wille already knows about those. Her statement about using adults is curious, unless she's just taking advantage of their needs to plant herself in an Eva.

I can't figure out what they were planning that would require an extraction, though. Maybe they were planning a covert recovery of Eva 02?

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Postby Shinoyami65 » Tue Jul 21, 2015 6:09 am

^Something that does intrigue me is her mention of extraction, implying that she was just going to up and leave after the Eva-02 mission, yet she apparently stuck around long enough to join Wille. That implies that Mari either abandoned who she was reporting to before, or that party no longer exists in the present day, or she returned at some point between 2.0 and 3.0 after being extracted.
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Postby BlueBasilisk » Tue Jul 21, 2015 10:40 am

They might have hung her out to dry or she was detained and couldn't leave following N3I. She was supposed to be working covertly, but she kinda blew her cover fighting the 10th Angel and wasn't in any shape to sneak out after getting her butt kicked.

That's why I think her intended mission was directly related to Unit 02. If it was just recon, intelligence or sabotage, why send the teenage Eva pilot instead of a regular spy? Nerv has no shortage of those. Plus, Mari was in Tokyo 3 for a while and it looks like she was just hanging out above ground in the city until they needed her to use the Eva. She was able to get in, suit up and get the Eva back to the Geofront without anyone noticing until she passed Misato on the elevator.

Or Euro could be one of the founding parties of Wille for all we know. They're definitely no friends of Gendo's and whether he meant to or not, Kaji put one of their people right on Gendo's doorstep to witness N3I play out. There would be some serious backlash in the international community after something like that and there's no way Nerv could brush it under the rug with so many witnesses. Look how quickly the other branches and the government turned on them in EoE, and that was before anything even happened!

I'd guess her connection to Kaji is how Mari ultimately gets into Misato's good graces.


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