Impact Mechanics

[Shinoyami65]

Yeah, it looks like one of the Adams which has a thrid eye (Eva-01 has a third eye in Giant of Light form). Misato even actively compares the Wings of Lihgt produced by Eva-01 (GoL) with the Wings of Light produced by the Adams, so there's clearly some kind of link going on. Then again, Lilith has been mistaken (apparently) for Adam in NGE.

Strangely, Eva-01's 4I Giant of Light form is different from Eva-01's and the Adams, despite being a surviving Adam...Instead of becoming the Giant of Light, it starts glowing and grows wings and a halo, while still retaining its basic Eva form. No third eyes, either (although it already has four anyway).

As for Lilith only having the FoK, it's implied in NGE that each Seed actually has both Fruits (or at least, that's what I've gathered from discussion about the subject) in order to accomplish its objectives.

[Monk Ed]

As for Lilith only having the FoK, it's implied in NGE that each Seed actually has both Fruits (or at least, that's what I've gathered from discussion about the subject) in order to accomplish its objectives.

What you've "gathered" is a position I've seen expressed by only one poster here so far (that being Bagheera, who came up with it). It is, shall we say, verily the opposite of the consensus if there can be said to be one on any topic in Evangelion fandom.

[NemZ]

As for Lilith only having the FoK, it's implied in NGE that each Seed actually has both Fruits (or at least, that's what I've gathered from discussion about the subject) in order to accomplish its objectives.

that doesn't make any damn sense at all. If seeds already have both then how can the union of them be forbidden? Why does Gendo need to shove the Adam fetus into Rei to kick things off, I mean shouldn't she already have everything she needs anyway? Why did 2I only happen after the contact experiment between Adam and a Lilith-based donor?

Besides, we have absolutely no evidence of 'fruits' (or 'seeds' for that matter) having anything to do with anything in Rebuild. Nobody knows what the hell is actually going on. Both 01 and 13 started going all impact-y BEFORE they ate/absorbed/whatever an angel, and in 01's case there were no lances involved in kicking it off so that can't be crucial either. We don't really know enough about whatever the hell happened in CD with Lilith, 06, angel 12 and the FoI to make any judgements whatsoever.

Anno can just make up whatever he wants at this point, which is good because he probably doesn't know or care how it works either.

[Shinoyami65]

What you've "gathered" is a position I've seen expressed by only one poster here so far (that being Bagheera, who came up with it). It is, shall we say, verily the opposite of the consensus if there can be said to be one on any topic in Evangelion fandom.

Ah. Sorry for the confusion then.

[Angel of Will]

1 Got Impacty after consuming Rei+Zeruel, 6+12th Angel got impacty after fusing with Lilith, and 13 got impacty after eating Lilith+12th Angel. The Fruits have been mentioned in multiple contexts, and there are trends to be discerned in Rebuild's events concerning them, and other matters. Let's not brush aside the likeliest possibilities- that's way more skepticism than is helpful to us.

[Monk Ed]

Both 01 and 13 started going all impact-y BEFORE they ate/absorbed/whatever an angel, and in 01's case there were no lances involved in kicking it off so that can't be crucial either.

Notice that in both cases they started going impacty as a result of proximity/contact to the things they would eventually absorb/eat, though. It's like how two ends of a wire don't have to be completely touching for electricity to jump between them, even if it's still better to do so. Or like how a plug doesn't have to be plugged all the way into an outlet to take power, but it's still a good idea if that is your goal. I don't see too much to read into the fact that things were "ignited" before the actual fusion/consumption.

[NemZ]

1 Got Impacty after consuming Rei+Zeruel, 6+12th Angel got impacty after fusing with Lilith, and 13 got impacty after eating Lilith+12th Angel.

in the first and last case the doors of guf were opened BEFORE then angel or whatever was consumed, and the evas involved were clearly becoming 'awakened' before that.

We don't know what happened in the time skip and it isn't helpful to make wild speculations.

Edit: If mere proximity of an eva to an angel is all it takes why doesn't an impact happen when Shinj faces Sachiel?

[Monk Ed]

Edit: If mere proximity of an eva to an angel is all it takes why doesn't an impact happen when Shinj faces Sachiel?

Who said that's all it takes? In both instances of impactness, the trigger is contact between the Eva and an Angel that has already fused with both something else and (to some extent) Rei. In the case of Ha, the impactness begins when Eva-01 comes into contact with an Angel that has already fused with both Eva-00 and Rei. And in the case of Q, the impactness begins when Eva-13 comes into contact with an Angel that has already fused with both Lilith and presumably Rei (it demonstrably has some essence of her, because the core that the 12th Angel forms around Unit 13 is noted by Rei-Q as having resemblance to her).

You know what I just realized as I was writing the above? It would be hilarious if it turned out that this time around it was Eva-00 and all the other non-true Evangelions (i.e. not ones made from the original Adams) who are cloned from Lilith, and that Rei had been piloting a clone of her original body the whole time.

[ElMariachi]

My take is that to completely awaken, an EVA needs to eat an Angel core(FoL?) and be "pseufo-awakened" first. But the pesudo-awakening state can seemingly be triggered without an Angel core nearby, like a "super-mode". It seems it can be activated by two ways :
- a sufficiently powerful pilot's will : Shinji going all red-eyed on Zeruel
- during the time skip SEELE seems to have understand enough of this mechanism to trigger it automatically via a background program : first when EVA-13 grabbed the spears, suddenly the the controls of the pilots where cut off; and secondly when the Wunder approached, Mark.09 cut ReiQ's control and began to hack the Wunder.

Notice than in the three case we saw similarities : firstly the changes of colors, all three going from their original color palette to a black and red coloring; and secondly their sudden capacity to do really crazy shit like eye-beams, ATF limbs or EVA-13 which could levitate.

From here a pilot can somewhat control its pseudo-awakened EVA(demonstrated by Shinji), but seemingly not for long, as the amount of concentration required seems extremely high, the moment the pilot stop being focused, the EVA start doing as it wants.
And what the EVA wants seems to attain its true purposed form : complete awakening and evolution for EVA-01 and EVA-13(becoming a "giant of light") and reunite with the Wunder for Mark.09(if Mark.09 was the Wunder's core as well as its "master")

Now back to 01 and 13, because that's the one that interest us here : once they manage to absorb the necessary Angel core(FoL?) they enter their complete evolution phase, that's when they go all white and glowy. From here, the eventual pilot lose any control of the EVA, as the Evangelion is now in complete control of its body, and starts an Impact.
The big question being why? Why would an awakened EVA immediately wants to start an Impact?

For EVA-13 the answer seems simple : its clearly stated that its one the 4 ADAMs from 2I, last time we saw it it was right on the middle of and Impact party with its three friends before being stopped by unknown means. So naturally once it "regains its sense" its first reflexes will be to continue what he was doing.

Now why would EVA-01 want to do the same thing? I have two guesses :
1/ EVA-01 is also a surviving Adams(the one with the three eyes is the more likely candidate), and like his VEA-13 pal want to continue their Impact party.
2/ it's Yui who started N3I, because for some reason that was part of her own agenda, but Gendo didn't wanted it, or didn't knew it was part of Yui's wish.

There is one thing I'm convinced of : EVA-01 is special compared to the rest of the "normal" EVAs(00, 02, 03, 04(the Unit, not the Mark) and 08) : in 2.0 when Gendo has finished his conference with SEELE in the big green room, he told to Fuyutsuki that SEELE wanted to create a "true God" with Mark.06, and that "all the other EVAs, even 01, are just means to open the path for it", that clearly means that 01 is special, both for Gendo and for SEELE. The only thing I could think of is that or 01 was made from Lilith like in NGE, or that its one of the surviving Adams but SEELE decided to use Mark.06 instead for their plans.

Now the last point : why when it evolved, EVA-01 transformed into a giant of light like during 2I(thus regaining its "original form" according to Ritsuko), but EVA-13 "just" became a white version of itself with a double halo?
The answer is simple : the spears! Kaworu stopping N3I with the lance of Cassius and weakening EVA-13's 4I with the two lances of Longinus are the proof that the lances retains their roles as "control rods" for godly beings from NGE.

Now my take on what happened during 4I : when Shinji pulled out the lance, it activated a backdoor program placed by SEELE and/or Gendo which deactivated the controls of both the pilots and activated the "pseudo-evolved mode". From here the EVA acted on instinct and devoured the 12th Angel's core(I'm not even sure Lilith's remains were needed, looking at how rotten it was), beginning his awakening. But thanks to the two lances, the background program kept EVA-13 under its control, thus white body but without fully evolving into a giant of light which would grant the Evangelion full control of its body, and started SEELE's version of an Impact. When all ended, Fuyutsuki explicitly said that "nearly all went as SEELE intended." meaning that this version of 4I was exactly what SEELE wanted.

[Angel of Will]

*slams head on table*

Taking hints from what is shown to us in 3.0 is not 'Wild Speculation'. It's Educated Guess-work, and mostly what we're all doing here.

"in the first and last case the doors of guf were opened BEFORE then angel or whatever was consumed..."

*goes back to watch those scenes*
That's not true.

[K40s]

You know what I just realized as I was writing the above? It would be hilarious if it turned out that this time around it was Eva-00 and all the other non-true Evangelions (i.e. not ones made from the original Adams) who are cloned from Lilith, and that Rei had been piloting a clone of her original body the whole time.

I don't think Eva-00 could have been Lilith-based, otherwise Zeruel absorbing her would have caused an Impact... the only way I can possibly see Eva-00 being Lilith-based is if it was like the "regular" evas in NGE: Adam-based but without the FoL, so Eva-00 would be Lilith-based but without the FoK.

If Eva-01 was an Adams survivor (or Adam-based with the FoL):
1) why isn't it called a Mark.01 like Mark.06 and Mark.09?
2) why would it cause an Impact by absorbing another FoL from Zeruel?
3) where would it get the FoK from to cause n3I, if as I established before even if Eva-00 was Lilith-based she couldn't possibly have the FoK.

The only explanation I see for this is that Eva-01 is Lilith-based with the FoK and Eva-00 is Adam-based without the FoL (like in NGE), that would explain why Zer didn't cause an Impact by absorbing Eva-00, and why Eva-01 went impacty the moment it did her palms trick on Zer's core.

Also Lilith's leg are still missing in 1.11 and 2.22.

[riffraff11235]

Everyone seems to be assuming that the 12th Angel absorbed Lilith's remains after she exploded; I don't think that's the case. After reviewing that part of the movie, It looks to me like Lilith's remains are the ocean of red goo that Eva-13 and Mark.06 are floating over. Eva-13 only absorbs the 12th Angel after it escapes from the "shell" of Mark.06 which it was sealed in. It's the combination of Eva-13 + 12th Angel (+ Spears?) which causes the Impact to start/resume.

This is why the Mark.06 was made autonomous. If Kaworu had been inside, he along with the Spears and the 12th Angel could have become an Impact Trigger. Instead, the Mark.06 took the 12th Angel - which looks like it's an infection type - within itself and sealed it in using one of the spears. The other was used to stop Lilith's movement.

I can already see a couple of holes in this argument, but I'll leave it to you guys to point them out. I'm feeling lazy today.

Also, something that's been touched upon before: When Gendou and Fuyutsuki are viewing the South Pole, we can clearly see that the Door of Guf is still open. But in both impacts that we've seen, the portal closed once the Awakened Eva that opened it was speared. Does this imply that Second Impact never truly ended?

[ElMariachi]

If Eva-01 was an Adams survivor (or Adam-based with the FoL):
1) why isn't it called a Mark.01 like Mark.06 and Mark.09?

To not rise suspicions as to why the Test type has a different denomination? Although I always saw it as the "Unit" designing NERV's EVAs(including neo-NERV's EVA-13), while the "Mark" designed SEELE's EVA : Mark.06 is explicitly said as being created by SEELE(even if they were using NERV's material) and Mark.06 has a big special protective plate with SEELE's logo on it.

2) why would it cause an Impact by absorbing another FoL from Zeruel?
3) where would it get the FoK from to cause n3I, if as I established before even if Eva-00 was Lilith-based she couldn't possibly have the FoK.

The only explanation I see for this is that Eva-01 is Lilith-based with the FoK and Eva-00 is Adam-based without the FoL (like in NGE), that would explain why Zer didn't cause an Impact by absorbing Eva-00, and why Eva-01 went impacty the moment it did her palms trick on Zer's core.

Also Lilith's leg are still missing in 1.11 and 2.22.

The problem is that we don't even know if the ADAMs needs a FoK to trigger an impact, since we don't have any information about what happened during Rebuild's version of the Katsuragi Expedition. Maybe the Angels needs a FoK from Lilith to start an Impact, but the 4 ADAMs are powerful enough to launch one at will if they are awakened enough.

[TheFriskyIan]

Everyone seems to be assuming that the 12th Angel absorbed Lilith's remains after she exploded; I don't think that's the case. After reviewing that part of the movie, It looks to me like Lilith's remains are the ocean of red goo that Eva-13 and Mark.06 are floating over. Eva-13 only absorbs the 12th Angel after it escapes from the "shell" of Mark.06 which it was sealed in. It's the combination of Eva-13 + 12th Angel (+ Spears?) which causes the Impact to start/resume.

They get the idea from the fact that when the 12th Angel turns itself into a core, it begins to take on Rei's face. However, that could just be an effect from the 12th Angel being inside the Mark 06 which combined with Lilith.

[TMBounty_Hunter]

Everyone seems to be assuming that the 12th Angel absorbed Lilith's remains after she exploded; I don't think that's the case. After reviewing that part of the movie, It looks to me like Lilith's remains are the ocean of red goo that Eva-13 and Mark.06 are floating over.

Ocean of red goo is there from the beginning.


If anything, Lilith's explosion just clears out the islands of skulls.

SPOILER: Show

KawoShin + Rei arrive:


Asuka arrives:

[riffraff11235]

Ocean of red goo is there from the beginning.


If anything, Lilith's explosion just clears out the islands of skulls.

I'd say it covered them up instead of swept them away. Besides, there's no indication that the 12th Angel absorbed any of that red goo when it formed a core around Eva-13.

Ah, and one more thing I'd like to point out: In the shot of Eva-13 glowing inside the 12th Angel core, right after the SEELE monoliths get shut down and right before the core shrinks, you can barely make out numerous Rei faces on the inner walls of the core.

[Nuclear Lunchbox]

Ah, and one more thing I'd like to point out: In the shot of Eva-13 glowing inside the 12th Angel core, right after the SEELE monoliths get shut down and right before the core shrinks, you can barely make out numerous Rei faces on the inner walls of the core.

It's very evident in the 3.33 Making Of video. There's a screenshot of it floating around here somewhere in this very thread.

[Reichu]

Besides, there's no indication that the 12th Angel absorbed any of that red goo when it formed a core around Eva-13.

It's ambiguous, but... When we first see the 12th Angel starting to go Rei on us, it's clearly in contact with the LCL pool, and it's morphing in a spiraling motion from the bottom up. It's kind of suggestive, IMO.

[K40s]

I think the 12th Angel did enter in contact with the LCL lake + Lilith's goo, thus the Rei faces, take a look a this sequence:

SPOILER: Show

The 12th Angel envolving Eva-13Eva-02 standing on the LCL lake + Lilith's gooFires at the Angel, nothing happens, the Angel's still floating above the LCL lakeThe Angel expands and splashes on the LCL lake, here's when the Angel starts to change into core-redfull core, we can see the wave from the splash on the LCL lakeand the Angel transfigures into Rei face

[airman4]

I don't think Eva-00 could have been Lilith-based, otherwise Zeruel absorbing her would have caused an Impact... the only way I can possibly see Eva-00 being Lilith-based is if it was like the "regular" evas in NGE: Adam-based but without the FoL, so Eva-00 would be Lilith-based but without the FoK.

If Eva-01 was an Adams survivor (or Adam-based with the FoL):
1) why isn't it called a Mark.01 like Mark.06 and Mark.09?
2) why would it cause an Impact by absorbing another FoL from Zeruel?
3) where would it get the FoK from to cause n3I, if as I established before even if Eva-00 was Lilith-based she couldn't possibly have the FoK.

The only explanation I see for this is that Eva-01 is Lilith-based with the FoK and Eva-00 is Adam-based without the FoL (like in NGE), that would explain why Zer didn't cause an Impact by absorbing Eva-00, and why Eva-01 went impacty the moment it did her palms trick on Zer's core.

Also Lilith's leg are still missing in 1.11 and 2.22.

Well , seele designs mark while nerv design Eva's

Ithe thing i dont get is that Mark 06 seems to be designed on Lilith (at the end of 1.11 we can see the body with Lilith's supposedly face!!)
But mark 06 is adam's survivor (probably one of the 4 apocalypse adams)

I think Eva 01 is a adam survivor , the blue blood type is common to angels/adams and lilith
mark 06 is one too , and so mark 09 slightly different , maybe a pseudo-adam's survivor
Eva 13 could be the last adam survivor