Impact Mechanics

[Xard]

Main Spoilers thread getting cluttered again. Argue about 3rd and 4th Impact mechanics here, bitte. (EDIT: And 2nd, too. Can't forget about that...) --Reichu



oh forget about it, I just quote relevant part:



For whatever it's worth rewatching the scene yesterday for caps couple of times deals with this issue. Just like in End of Evangelion you can compare Geofront to being the "safe spot" in eye of tornado. The apocalyptic destruction spreads outwards from Geofront but doesn't consume it:


[URL=http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/109/snap2012111804h58m05s14.png/][/URL]
this is last shot of "outside world" by the way so we can't tell just how much further the effects spread

So I don't think there's any lolwutness at play here. The effect of Impacts can clearly overcome the range of the fireworks as 2nd Impact turning
*all* seas red quickly shows well. Perhaps the red ring started emitting some sort of "kill all humans" wave etc.

But really, it's not as lolwut looking at it again. The visuals in 2.0 justify "well fuck, we fucked now" interpretation as they stand.

edit: so for some reason the picture under was not resized. Fix'd

[Hyper Shinchan]

What they showed us makes only think about an event limited to the area of Hakone, they never showed the global effect à la EoE; Anno made up this shit for sure, the movie seems beautiful on its own but the connection with the previous ones looks weak between this exaggeration of 3I and the 14 years time-skip (which could give way to some OVAs or manga...).

[Xard]

What they showed us makes only think about an event limited to the area of Hakone, they never showed the global effect à la EoE; Anno made up this shit for sure, the movie seems beautiful on its own but the connection with the previous ones looks weak between this exaggeration of 3I and the 14 years time-skip (which could give way to some OVAs or manga...).

Again, point is we don't see how far it spreads AFTER that point because the "camera" keeps firmly fixed on nothing but Geofront.

Secondly, the size of physical explosion thing has never been the most important part about Impact. The gloomy ring of red death is probably more important than the explosion preceding it in any case as far as Impact's effects on mankind goes.

Since we don't see tanging or anything we don't know enough about how exactly third impact (or impacts in general) operate in RoE-verse. But the damage and SF vortex of doom mindfuck shown is more than enough to establish together with Ritsu's dialogue that world is about to get fucked.

[Hyper Shinchan]

that world is about to get fucked.

This is the point, Xard. I still don't even understand exactly how it ended up getting fucked up anyway, tidal waves? It doesn't look plausible. Limited area tanging?

[Xard]

This is the point, Xard. I still don't even exactly how it still ended up getting fucked up anyway, tidal waves? It doesn't look plausible. Limited area tanging?

Again, we don't know how. Tidal waves perhaps and the following social chaos? We don't get exact answer what wipes out most of humanity after 2nd Impact but assuming tidal waves, earthquakes, volcanoes etc. together with wars breaking out took care of it.

Something similar is entirely feasible with 3rd Impact.

Or then some kind of limited tanging started.

Or then the vortex of doom literally sucks life energy.


Or then it emits some radio wave bad enough to wipe out most humanity, perhaps by playing horrid pop music at highest possible volume within their heads and so they end up killing themselves.

Point is, we simply don't know enough about Impact mechanisms in RoE or even the precise scale for them.

This is why I asked Lili does she remember anything about scale of 3rd vs 4th Impact etc. but she didn't answer for some reason. Maybe she simply didn't remember. Hell, I'm still not sure if it was 3rd or 4th that was implied to have destroyed most of remaining humanity.

Point is there's no reason to assume based on 2.0 it's impossible Third Impact could fuck the world so badly. It's plenty apocalyptic as it is and the reason we don't go to global scale is that the focus of drama is in Geofront and Shinji's reifagging in his bubbleverse.

[Seele00TextOnly]

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[TheTuna]

Regarding 3I, I'd expect that we'll see some more flashbacks in 3.0 or 4.0 to explain what exactly happened.

[Hyper Shinchan]

This is why I asked Lili does she remember anything about scale of 3rd vs 4th Impact etc. but she didn't answer for some reason. Maybe she simply didn't remember.

Or maybe they simply didn't explain it, more shitty writing.

Point is there's no reason to assume based on 2.0 it's impossible Third Impact could fuck the world so badly.

It's not "impossible", it's fiction after all, but it does sound quite implausible.

[Xard]

As for the rest of the world, again I can't say. It certainly looked a lot like the depiction of Second Impact in Misato's flashback. I think calling retcon writing might sound easy and convenient, but it just isn't necessary to jump to that conclusion in this case. Some things aren't adding up very well with relation between this movie and last, but I don't think the consequences of Near Third Impact is one of them.

Thanks. Basically this. We simply don't know enough about exact Impact mechanism to rule out as implausible global catastrophe on material given in 2.0

Far better question is how Wille got set up and where it gets its money though since it looks like SEELE is goner now that might afford Misato enough moving space to maneuver UN organization for herself during past 14 years.

Or maybe they simply didn't explain it, more shitty writing.

There's no reason to explain third impact beyond "bad shit happened, world got even more fucked than before, Shinji you suck". All relevant info for storytelling is conveyed.

It's not "impossible", it's fiction after all, but it does sound quite implausible.

You're coming from EoE background expecting EoE level fireworks (which - incidentally - aren't enough on their own to wipe out humanity either. Most of globe wasn't part of the giant eyeball of doom explosion after all) like all of us which skewers our expectations though.

It's clear RoE impact plays different game as far as depiction and mechanics go.

Leaving scale of 4th Impact unknown is to be expected, I'm just not sure if "most humans seem to be perished" is impression that carries through WHOLE film or is it about the EoEsque final scene. That's why I asked about both.

It doesn't fundamentally even matter if Shinji "just" fucked over Tokyo-3 and Hakone or the globe as everyone has more than heavy enough justification for grudges regardless.

[Kestrel]

Not now, I think. We lack information to make any sort of meaningful thread about Impact mechanism.

I think it's safe to draw at least a couple of parallels between both Eva TV's Second Impact, and Rebuild's Second Impact.

At least in Eva TV, the 2I at the South Pole resulted in a massive tsunami over the southern hemisphere, with melting icecaps furthering the damage and resulting in worldwide flooding / general havoc. A lot of scrambling and war between nations occurred in the aftermath, resulting in a pretty nasty population drop.

Rebuild furthers that idea with the multiple Adams, as witnessed by Misato, at the South Pole. In contrast with Eva TV, however, those rings are still there years later. Pardon as I gracefully borrow this image from the Evageeks wiki...



Similar written within the wiki, on the faulty activation of the fourth unit (S2 engine perhaps?), we had a mini impact..



And that's where it gets fuzzy. Eva 04's failed activation in rebuild results in a similar sort of mini-catastrophic event, similar to the Rebuild 2I, but not at all similar to the proposed sea of dirac vanishing present in Eva TV.

So.. We're caught in a bit of a mix here. I think it's safe to say that Kaworu's lancing of Eva 01 cut the impact short. Was it as bad as the second impact? Doubtful. Hell - Misato and the rest of the bridge bunnies are still alive at ground zero. And it's obvious that we didn't have some sort of large scale destruction of Japan in general, given the setting of 3.0.

So what's the beef? How exactly did the pseudo third impact exactly screw things up, especially if it was cut short by Kaworu? We *need* that backstory. 4.0 had better deliver.

My guess is that in order to break Shinji, he's going to have to somehow experience or see all of his destruction firsthand. We'll probably get some sort of flashback to clear all of that up at the same time. Otherwise, I just don't see him losing hope in himself and making the preview suggest push for instrumentality.

I'm not really a Shinji fan this time around. Last time, I could identify with his angst. This time, he seems much less angsty (and in some respects, a much stronger character...) but trades his weakness for poor decision making skills. It's a really weird attitude for him to have, and I don't think Anno is setting him up as an identifiable character, or even likeable in as many respects as he was in Eva TV. It's almost as if Rebuild in general doesn't want you to like him as much. It's... lacking the depth that the original Shinji did have.

[Kestrel]

And just another tidbit..

If the supposed Third Impact resulted in Kaji's death, it would do wonders to explain Misato's 3.0 actions and attitude toward Shinji.

[Hyper Shinchan]

If the supposed Third Impact resulted in Kaji's death, it would do wonders to explain Misato's 3.0 actions and attitude toward Shinji.

It'd be weird as fuck if he was the only one to die in that area.

Anyway this stuff about Eva-like creatures sounds interesting but it's also really confusing.

[Xard]

Thanks for your hard work Lili anyway, even if you dreamed up the giant part. We'll see

[quote="Kestrel"][/quote]

I think your pictures (esp. that of 2nd Impact) already show one big difference between NGE and RoE: in NGE the 2nd Impact was basically "just" this gigantic explosion that blew up antarctis etc.

In Rebuild we get space vortex of doom rainbows that might be gate to another dimension and looks like it might suck/swallow earth on a bad day hanging on over ten years later. Basically it's just bigger version of Third Impact in 2.0

Regardless our material doesn't explain what exactly is the purpose of that sphere thing and how it influences things in both impacts. Is it responsible for changing colour of water red across the globe (explosions don't do that)? If so its area of influence goes way beyond its size etc.


I don't see need for a Third Impact flashback because we already saw it in 3.0 and I still maintain there's no reason to think it couldn't have fucked up things in global scale (not a single Impact has caused most of its damage with power of its explosion).

But to be honest it is more natural exception to think it was more local in scale if still very, very destructive. This is what I've assumed about Third Impact all the time untill the talk about "humanity being mostly wiped out" by end of the film started to go around but just like the LCL=curse of eva thing I haven't found out a way to confirm whether or not this is just more fan rumours or seriously implied in the film.

Beats me.

We didn't really get any sufficient insight into Impact mechanisms in NGE before CI was translated so I'm not expecting our ability to make any sense of Impact mechanisms in RoE before it's all over (and maybe not even then). We don't even know for sure just how different they are from NGE Impacts too.

[TB3]

It could also be suggested that the major consequence of 3I was not so much the event itself but the aftermath - based on reports from Japan we've got Eva-corpses lying around the impact site and so on - what if a result of 3I was an 'Evangelical Arms War' that resulted in even greater fallout, but which is a direct result of 3I, for which Shinji must also shoulder the blame, much as how the average German or Japanese resented the Nazis and Imperialists for everything they had to suffer in the post-war reconstruction.

Or, in other words:

Shinji/EVA-01: A God Am I!

KWAROU/MARK-06: Nope!
(impales 01 on the lance)

REST OF WORLD: Holy shit we gotta get ourselves some of that tech! F**k the Vatican Treaty!
(and the world goes to shit)

Might also explain some of the missing Eva-series numbers. I mean we've got to account for 7, 10, 11 and 12 right? We've also got proof of radical developments in Eva-related technology (which may have actually been deployed in combat) with the 'angelic' Mark-4a/b drones, the Wunder's 'angel parts' and the use of 01 as a power-core, suggesting that a lot of things have gone down in 14 years, a chain of events initiated by Shinji's actions.

I'm also for some reason prone to the idea that one or more of the 'trio' (Toji, Hikari, Kensuke) survived 3I and ended up as a pilot for NERV or WILLE, consequently kicking it in the line of duty (a little reasonable given that Sakura is a member of WILLE and someone just 'happened' to have Toji's old clothes lying around), but that's just my personal fanwank.

[12souls]

this is last shot of "outside world" by the way so we can't tell just how much further the effects spread

There is a aerial view of third impact after the credits. With mount fuji there it shows it's scale quite nicely. This is the very second before 01 is lanced so i'd assume this is as big as it gets. It looks like it covers Tokyo 3 and a little of the surrounding areas. Compare this to second impact and it's very difficult to believe this could have been a global catastrophe. The difference in size is just too large.

Perhaps people who have seen 3.0 are exaggerating the implied effects of third impact? It obviously killed a lot of people but is it actually made clear in 3.0 that it was a global scale kind of thing? I'm not too immersed in spoilers just yet so I don't know exactly what is said about it. Either that or there is something funky going on with the mechanics of impacts that we don't know about.




Scroll up for a comparison against second impact which seems hundreds of times larger.

[Charsi]

http://goo.gl/maps/iDZWP

Google map placement using the two rivers for approximation.

Honestly that makes it difficult to think of as Japan-wide, let alone world-wide.

[Xard]

LastSoul, mind swapping the bigass picture for scaled one I edited in? That's ruining the entire page and I'm not sure how that happened because I swear last night when I wrote the post they were both nicely resized pictures


Good catch on post-credits scene

[driftking18594]

I thought for a day or so that 3I would have triggered earthquakes, but considering that the ex-NERV members in WILLE are still alive, I think earthquakes following 3I would have been unlikely.

[Shinoyami65]

In Rebuild we get space vortex of doom rainbows that might be gate to another dimension and looks like it might suck/swallow earth on a bad day hanging on over ten years later. Basically it's just bigger version of Third Impact in 2.0.

Maybe Near-Third Impact caused some kind of reaction from the vortex in Antarctica? Ritsuko does say that Third Impact is the continuation of Second Impact, so is it possible that Third Impact also caused the Second Impact vortex to grow or cause more changes to the climate that led to the demise of humanity. We don't see much of what's happening worldwide during Third Impact, so it's entirely possible that weird shit could be occurring and we just can't see it.

[Seele00TextOnly]

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