Misato's relationship with Shinji in 3.0

Discussion of the new series of Evangelion movies ( "Evangelion Shin Gekijōban", meaning "Evangelion: New Theatrical Edition").
The third installment debuted in Japan on November 17, 2012.

Moderators: New Moderators, Board Staff

UrsusArctos
The Beginning and the End
The Beginning and the End
User avatar
Age: 30
Posts: 8598
Joined: Jun 28, 2007
Location: Visiting forum at random

[SPOILERS] Misato's relationship with Shinji in 3.0

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby UrsusArctos » Sat Nov 17, 2012 8:17 am

Well, ladies and gentlemen, what do you think about Shinji's exploding collar? Do you think Misato went overboard in going Battle Royale with him? Or is that what our Troll-Emperor Anno is aiming at?

Discuss.
[Became a moderator on December 31st, 2007. Became an administrator on September 7th, 2013.]
Not knowing that Monk is bi is like not knowing the Pope is Catholic - ZapX.
You're either really bad at interpreting jokes or really good at pretending you are and I have no idea which.-Monk Ed
WAAAAAAAAGH!!!!!(<-link to lunacy)...Taste me, if you can bear it. (Warning: Language NSFW)
The main point of idiocy is for the smart to have their lulz. Without human idiocy, trolling would not exist, and that's uncool, since a large part of my entertainment consists of mocking the absurdity and dumbassery of the world, especially the Internet.-MaggotMaster

Shinoyami65
Seed
Seed
User avatar
Age: 21
Posts: 3926
Joined: Jul 26, 2012
Location: Vinculum Gate
Gender: Male

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Shinoyami65 » Sat Nov 17, 2012 8:32 am

I think her decision was a result of desperation and going off the deep end a bit. Basically a bad decision. She had no clue whether Fourth Impact would stop if Shinji died. It could have carried on with Kaworu alone for all we know. She was just stupid, crazy and trying to place blame on Shinji for something he didn't even know about. She didn't tell him anything about the past 14 years, and she's blaming him for something she was in favour of at the time, which had an unintentional side effect. Shinji isn't responsible for his actions, but Misato's so desperate to avoid blaming herself for her failures that even compassion didn't keep her finger off the button long. Basically she's just running away and making things worse for herself. I find I dislike Rebuild Misato much for than EoE Misato and TV Misato, because she kind of seems like bitch to me.

Bagheera
Banned
User avatar
Posts: 18626
Joined: Oct 15, 2010

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Bagheera » Sat Nov 17, 2012 8:41 am

View Original PostShinoyami65 wrote:I think her decision was a result of desperation and going off the deep end a bit. Basically a bad decision. She had no clue whether Fourth Impact would stop if Shinji died. It could have carried on with Kaworu alone for all we know. She was just stupid, crazy and trying to place blame on Shinji for something he didn't even know about. She didn't tell him anything about the past 14 years, and she's blaming him for something she was in favour of at the time, which had an unintentional side effect. Shinji isn't responsible for his actions, but Misato's so desperate to avoid blaming herself for her failures that even compassion didn't keep her finger off the button long. Basically she's just running away and making things worse for herself. I find I dislike Rebuild Misato much for than EoE Misato and TV Misato, because she kind of seems like bitch to me.


None of that seems even remotely accurate to me. What makes you think she didn't tell him anything about the past fourteen years, and where do you get the notion she was in favor of 3I? She was adamantly opposed once she knew what was going on, and it was Shinji's failure, egged on by his father, that made it happen. Gendo's the one who's responsible for all of this, with Shinji (and later Kaworu) as his proxy. Misato's just reacting as best she can without actively killing anyone.

(and it was actually quite a good decision, since if she'd pushed the button earlier Shinji wouldn't have been able to initiate 4I. But instead she tried to stop him, to be humane, and that gave him the time he needed to make yet another monumental fuckup. Your hate of Misato is sorely misplaced.)
For my post-3I fic, go here.
The law doesn't protect people. People protect the law. -- Akane Tsunemori, Psycho-Pass
People's deaths are to be mourned. The ability to save people should be celebrated. Life itself should be exalted. -- Volken Macmani, Tatakau Shisho: The Book of Bantorra
I hate myself. But maybe I can learn to love myself. Maybe it's okay for me to be here! That's right! I'm me, nothing more, nothing less! I'm me. I want to be me! I want to be here! And it's okay for me to be here! -- Shinji Ikari, Neon Genesis Evangelion
Yes, I know. You thought it would be something about Asuka. You're such idiots.

Shinoyami65
Seed
Seed
User avatar
Age: 21
Posts: 3926
Joined: Jul 26, 2012
Location: Vinculum Gate
Gender: Male

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Shinoyami65 » Sat Nov 17, 2012 8:46 am

Why doesn't she kill Gendo then? Sorry aboutt the troll-rage, I'm stillstuck on the fact she blew up Kaworu gruesomely in front of Shinji. Once again, we're not sure whether 4I could have happened with Kaworu alone, he IS an Angel.
Last edited by Shinoyami65 on Sat Nov 17, 2012 8:49 am, edited 1 time in total.
E̱͡v͈̙e͔̰̳͙r̞͍y͏̱̲̭͎̪ṱ͙̣̗̱͠h̰̰i͙n̶̮̟̳͍͍̫͓g̩ ̠͈en̶̖̹̪d̸̙̦͙̜͕͍̞s̸̰.̳̙̺̟̻̀

I always thought I might be bad
Now I know that it's true
Because I think you're so good
And I'm nothing like you

BiQ
Sahaquiel
Sahaquiel
User avatar
Age: 37
Posts: 638
Joined: Sep 02, 2010
Location: Finland

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby BiQ » Sat Nov 17, 2012 8:49 am

Well well...

For reference, self-quoting here:
SPOILER: Show
View Original PostBiQ wrote:If the so-called "team good" did the space mission to get Shinji back, it really needs to asked: WHY?

To pilot an Eva? Seemingly not.
To execute him as a war criminal? Well then, let's just get that over with, will you?
To keep him locked-up pondering just where the things went wrong when emotionally unstable kid is asked to pilot a WMD which has actual world-ending capabilities he's deliberately being kept in the dark on? well... okay? What purpose does that serve, exactly, except to let them have their scapegoat they can kick around (and pile all of their own faults too).
To make amends of ending humanity? How do you even begin to do that, even if it can be said to rest solely on your shoulders?

Well sorry, I think the real reason for the space mission was whatever was left of Unit 01. Handling with Shinji is just the inconvenient part of it.

And if I'm going to give EoE Shinji any slack, I'm going to do it to NME Shinji too. Sorry. It's either that or I'll start hating EoE Shinji too. I think being emotionally unstable 14 yo and NOT INFORMED on what's going to happen are the key here.

Now, his decision to go for his dad... surely a stupid one, but how do you figure doing smart decisions when you've lost everything, everybody hates you and there's no way you could even do anything to fix any part of the situation? And you're still that 14 yo kid.

I might have missed something in this thread. It's getting too long now. I guess I just need to stop looking at it for a while and come back when the internet has formed a distilled, comprehensive list of everything. My kindest of thank yous to everyone who participates in that process. Apologies if that sounds insincere, I'm in a bit of hurry but really do mean it.


Some of this might feel contradictory to my earlier points but...

Misato actually has a valid reason to go Battle Royale on Shinji with collar and all. Security of humanity, etc. If his punishment is to be locked up like that, however, I do think Shinji (all of his incarnations) should, does and always will have the inalienable right to two things, especially if responsibility for what happens or has happened is to be shoved on his shoulders:
- A right to know WHAT THE HELL IS GOING ON, with absolutely no secrets when it comes to things he is expected to handle. Also includes being informed what kind of stupid things he does actually tend to have world-scale disastrous effects.
- A right to know what happens to him, and what is actually expected of him from this point on forwards, instead of passive-aggressive ill will where he has to "just figure something out on his own" to redeem himself, not being even sure if that's actually possible. If it isn't possible, then being told so.

Given the track record of Evangelion universe in those two aspects so far, I'm not holding my breath. (I admit that if there's spoilers saying anything about it I have missed those) Even criminals have their right to be judged FAIRLY, regardless how harsh the sentence may be.
Last edited by BiQ on Sat Nov 17, 2012 8:52 am, edited 1 time in total.
The art of being grown up, the dirty little secret nobody lets on about, is that it's all about getting comfortable with acting the part, and reaching that point where you stop giving a fuck, and do stuff that needs to be done, because it just needs doing, and ain't nobody else going to do it for you. -Mr. Tines

Bagheera
Banned
User avatar
Posts: 18626
Joined: Oct 15, 2010

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Bagheera » Sat Nov 17, 2012 8:49 am

Edit: BiQ beat me to it, and added an important caveat besides. I agree in all respects.
For my post-3I fic, go here.
The law doesn't protect people. People protect the law. -- Akane Tsunemori, Psycho-Pass
People's deaths are to be mourned. The ability to save people should be celebrated. Life itself should be exalted. -- Volken Macmani, Tatakau Shisho: The Book of Bantorra
I hate myself. But maybe I can learn to love myself. Maybe it's okay for me to be here! That's right! I'm me, nothing more, nothing less! I'm me. I want to be me! I want to be here! And it's okay for me to be here! -- Shinji Ikari, Neon Genesis Evangelion
Yes, I know. You thought it would be something about Asuka. You're such idiots.

Reichu
Space-Time Teratoma
Space-Time Teratoma
Posts: 23058
Joined: Aug 21, 2004
Location: Lost in Bat Country
Gender: Female
Contact:

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Reichu » Sat Nov 17, 2012 8:53 am

I'm curious as to why, given the apparently harsh treatment Shinji received afterward, he was salvaged by Wille at all. Was there a downside to him remaining in Eva-01?

Bagheera
Banned
User avatar
Posts: 18626
Joined: Oct 15, 2010

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Bagheera » Sat Nov 17, 2012 8:55 am

View Original PostReichu wrote:I'm curious as to why, given the apparently harsh treatment Shinji received afterward, he was salvaged by Wille at all. Was there a downside to him remaining in Eva-01?


Being angry at someone doesn't mean you want them dead.
For my post-3I fic, go here.
The law doesn't protect people. People protect the law. -- Akane Tsunemori, Psycho-Pass
People's deaths are to be mourned. The ability to save people should be celebrated. Life itself should be exalted. -- Volken Macmani, Tatakau Shisho: The Book of Bantorra
I hate myself. But maybe I can learn to love myself. Maybe it's okay for me to be here! That's right! I'm me, nothing more, nothing less! I'm me. I want to be me! I want to be here! And it's okay for me to be here! -- Shinji Ikari, Neon Genesis Evangelion
Yes, I know. You thought it would be something about Asuka. You're such idiots.

Hyper Shinchan
God
God
User avatar
Age: 31
Posts: 4774
Joined: Aug 07, 2005
Location: Bunga Bunga Republic
Gender: Male

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Hyper Shinchan » Sat Nov 17, 2012 8:55 am

View Original PostReichu wrote: Was there a downside to him remaining in Eva-01?

Wasn't he capable of controlling Eva-01, at least to some extent? From the preview it looks like you just had to ask for his help and he was there to do the work.
So let’s make a wish.
“Please let me redo again.”
No matter how many times

From the book “All About Nagisa Kaworu: A Child of Evangelion”.

Shinoyami65
Seed
Seed
User avatar
Age: 21
Posts: 3926
Joined: Jul 26, 2012
Location: Vinculum Gate
Gender: Male

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Shinoyami65 » Sat Nov 17, 2012 9:00 am

If they wanted to keep Shinji they should have tried not to alienate him so much, that's why he went over to Gendo in the first place. I still don't think Shinji's responsible fir 3I and 4I, the poor kid doesn't know about all the world-ending shit, he was trying to save Rei when he caused 3I and the world when he caused 4I.
E̱͡v͈̙e͔̰̳͙r̞͍y͏̱̲̭͎̪ṱ͙̣̗̱͠h̰̰i͙n̶̮̟̳͍͍̫͓g̩ ̠͈en̶̖̹̪d̸̙̦͙̜͕͍̞s̸̰.̳̙̺̟̻̀

I always thought I might be bad
Now I know that it's true
Because I think you're so good
And I'm nothing like you

JimmyWolk
Matarael
Matarael
User avatar
Age: 36
Posts: 582
Joined: Jun 06, 2008
Location: here
Contact:

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby JimmyWolk » Sat Nov 17, 2012 9:11 am

Isn't it likely that the collar is just a failsafe in case it would turn out that whatever they extracted from the Eva isn't actually Shinji?

Shinoyami65
Seed
Seed
User avatar
Age: 21
Posts: 3926
Joined: Jul 26, 2012
Location: Vinculum Gate
Gender: Male

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Shinoyami65 » Sat Nov 17, 2012 9:31 am

View Original PostJimmyWolk wrote:Isn't it likely that the collar is just a failsafe in case it would turn out that whatever they extracted from the Eva isn't actually Shinji?

Why would it not be Shinji? Only Yui, Rei and Shinji were in the core, and it clearly wasn't one of them. Not like any if them would be dangerous outside of the Eva anyway. I think it was just Musato's way of keeping Shinji from starting 4I, like, ' If you fuck up I'll kill you'.
E̱͡v͈̙e͔̰̳͙r̞͍y͏̱̲̭͎̪ṱ͙̣̗̱͠h̰̰i͙n̶̮̟̳͍͍̫͓g̩ ̠͈en̶̖̹̪d̸̙̦͙̜͕͍̞s̸̰.̳̙̺̟̻̀

I always thought I might be bad
Now I know that it's true
Because I think you're so good
And I'm nothing like you

JimmyWolk
Matarael
Matarael
User avatar
Age: 36
Posts: 582
Joined: Jun 06, 2008
Location: here
Contact:

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby JimmyWolk » Sat Nov 17, 2012 9:44 am

View Original PostShinoyami65 wrote:Why would it not be Shinji?
Who knows? The other souls fused with his, making him potentially crazy? The Eva's angelic side, pretending to be him? Even if not, he could be tainted by crazy Eva/Angel/Impact powers. One of pics show him marked as "S. Ikari??", which would fit this train of thought.

Do we even know that they actually tried to get him out (this time), or did he perhaps even just showed up as they experimented on getting EVA-01 ready as power source? They'd have enough reason to be weary of him then.

Gezora
Embryo
Age: 35
Posts: 4
Joined: Nov 17, 2012
Gender: Male

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Gezora » Sat Nov 17, 2012 11:09 am

View Original PostJimmyWolk wrote:Isn't it likely that the collar is just a failsafe in case it would turn out that whatever they extracted from the Eva isn't actually Shinji?


Yeah, that was the feeling I got, or that he might have been contaminated somehow. But either way it's to stop 4th Impact at all costs. It's called an Anti-Deification collar for a reason. I'm not really making any moral/character judgments on Shinji or Misato at this point.

Ynnead
Embryo
User avatar
Age: 27
Posts: 25
Joined: Nov 16, 2012
Location: Unforunately Arizona
Gender: Male

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Ynnead » Sat Nov 17, 2012 8:16 pm

What bugs me is that from what I heard Misato is giving Shinji the cold shoulder for what he did, which would normally be understandable but here's the thing...SHE TOLD HIM TO DO IT, she blatantly encourage something that even before being told was third impact she had to have known was bad, and she encouraged him to do it anyways when Shinji himself was not in a rational decision making place.

xanderkh
Donor
Donor
User avatar
Posts: 2613
Joined: Sep 12, 2011
Gender: Male

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby xanderkh » Sat Nov 17, 2012 8:21 pm

View Original PostYnnead wrote:What bugs me is that from what I heard Misato is giving Shinji the cold shoulder for what he did, which would normally be understandable but here's the thing...SHE TOLD HIM TO DO IT, she blatantly encourage something that even before being told was third impact she had to have known was bad, and she encouraged him to do it anyways when Shinji himself was not in a rational decision making place.


And now she regrets that decision. Shinji himself is the very symbol of her failure to make the right decision, so being in his very presence is a constant reminder of that mistake.
"You're na�ve, Cecil. Even knowing betrayal and despair, you would depend on the whims of others?" - Golbez
---------------------------------------
Sephiroth: "Do you miss the Light?"
Golbez: "Hmph...I merely have duties to fulfill."
Sephiroth: "Too close to the brightness, and you may get scorched."
Golbz:.............
Golbez: Your loss can strengthen you.

"NGE Shinji is broken, Manga Shinji is an asshole, Rebuild Shinji is an idiot. Which is best? Uh, can I get some other options? All of these really suck." -Bagheera

Hyper Shinchan
God
God
User avatar
Age: 31
Posts: 4774
Joined: Aug 07, 2005
Location: Bunga Bunga Republic
Gender: Male

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Hyper Shinchan » Sat Nov 17, 2012 8:26 pm

^
In other words, Misato confirmed for being still a child in an adult body even after 14 years.
So let’s make a wish.
“Please let me redo again.”
No matter how many times

From the book “All About Nagisa Kaworu: A Child of Evangelion”.

Ynnead
Embryo
User avatar
Age: 27
Posts: 25
Joined: Nov 16, 2012
Location: Unforunately Arizona
Gender: Male

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Ynnead » Sat Nov 17, 2012 8:30 pm

View Original PostHyper Shinchan wrote:^
In other words, Misato confirmed for being still a child in an adult body even after 14 years.

If nothing else the trend of every adult in Shinji's life being a hypocritical bastard towards him continues.

gorgeousshutin
Gaghiel
Gaghiel
Posts: 385
Joined: Apr 12, 2012
Contact:

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby gorgeousshutin » Sat Nov 17, 2012 9:29 pm

Japan culture is famous for two things:

1) People of all ages having difficulties in expressing their emotions (see NGE and the retarded-ness that's Gendo).

2) People having strong needs to place blames and hold grudges whenever bad things happen, to the point that they accept and allowed the blaming of not just known criminals, but also said criminals relations and friends (see Penguindrum, where innocent children who got adopted by terrorists got cursed by their world to die).

That being said, if Misato is staying even remotely in-character in 3.0, then her putting the bomb collar on Shinji has to be out of (what she felt is )necessity and not plain spite. I lean towards the theory that Shinji has now been deemed as an angel-like life form and could start 4th impact if left unwatched, thus making him a living hazard to mankind.

That being said, I will not put it past her to (consciously or unconsciously) ignore in-depth communication with Shinji in 3.0, as the boy now is a living reminder of her screwing humanity over with her passionate encouragement scene in 2.0.. The woman does have her flaws and weaknesses, after all.
The Gorgeous Shut-in
Current fics:
(SKU/MPD) Seinen Kakumei Utena (Completed as of May 12, 2018)
(PSOH/SKU) Revolutionary Human Leon (Updated to Part 4 as of Nov, 2017)
(NGE) The End of Hedgehog_s Dilemma (Updated to Part II Chapter 6 as of May 17, 2016)
(Banana Fish)Medusa (Updated to Chapter 3 as of Mar 01, 2016)
http://archiveofourown.org/users/gorgeousshutin/works
or
https://www.fanfiction.net/u/3978886/

Seele00TextOnly
Phospholipid Bilayer
Phospholipid Bilayer
User avatar
Age: 38
Posts: 1806
Joined: Sep 23, 2007
Location: Wilmington, NC
Gender: Female

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Seele00TextOnly » Sat Nov 17, 2012 9:46 pm

I'm really liking how this all plays for Misato's characterization. She's been devoting the last 14 years of her life to righting the wrongs to whatever extents she made them at Nerv. She puts the collar on Shinji sure but can't bring herself to press it at first till it's too late; even later when they're at war with him near Terminal Dogma she doesn't do it till the last moments. In fact, some readings of the last scenes say it activates once it registers Code Blue finally from Kaworu, but who knows.

I don't expect Misato to get off as a white knight. She never did before, and that's not Eva's style anyway. I expect her to end up sacrificing herself for Shinji in the next movie, rattled with newfound guilt in reflection over her actions in this one with the collar. Rebuild now is forming in perspective to me to revolve fully around guilt and how one deals with it. Gendo, Shinji, Misato... it's very interesting indeed.

In fact I think that's something I'm liking more about Misato and the rest of Wille in this. Here are people who realize they were working for some evil motherfuckers and, though not perfect themselves, are now dedicated to stopping them. It's just so cool.

As an aside, I'm noticing in all the art and stillshots she is looking tough as nails, as if she is really broken up inside and holding herself together in desperation to atone, even if she's acting slightly reckless in that respect (see parallels with Shinji in this movie that I'll have to address in the Shinji thread eventually...). But basically as always she and Shinji are mirroring eachother, and she is again elevated to a major co-lead character as she belongs.
Check out my AMVs: Kaji/Misato in "18 Apostolos" & Kaworu and the Harpies in "The Beast That Shouted 'I' at the Heart of the World" w/ music by Esselfortium!!
Shinji embraces the otaku empowerment fantasy and dives headfirst into his mother's basement. -Chrad
Acts of man are better than acts of god. -Misato


Return to “Rebuild of Evangelion”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 7 guests