Sequel theory once again.

Discussion of the new series of Evangelion movies ( "Evangelion Shin Gekijōban", meaning "Evangelion: New Theatrical Edition").
The third installment debuted in Japan on November 17, 2012.

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Sequel theory once again.

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Postby Lurkis » Thu Sep 27, 2012 8:32 pm

View Original PostTheFriskyIan wrote:And considering that was EoE and this is Rebuild.


Still saying Rebuild is a continuation.

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Postby TheFriskyIan » Thu Sep 27, 2012 10:55 pm

View Original PostLurkis wrote:Still saying Rebuild is a continuation.

NOOOOO! NO! NOPE NOPE NOPE NOPE NOPE! LALALALALALALA I CAN'T HEAR YOU! LALALALALALALA!
Please just call me Ian, "TheFrisky" is more of a title.

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Postby qu4d » Fri Sep 28, 2012 2:38 am

View Original PostLurkis wrote:Still saying Rebuild is a continuation.


It doesnt make sense in that way...

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Postby SpearofLonginus » Fri Sep 28, 2012 8:48 am

I love the idea of Rebuild as a contiuation... :x

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Postby Lurkis » Fri Sep 28, 2012 11:35 am

View Original Postqu4d wrote:It doesnt make sense in that way...


It makes perfect sense :3 All the clues are there, and I will admit most of them can be explained both as a continuation and as a remake, but it's the ones that can't that convince me. For example, Kaworu saying "this time" etc.

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Postby Sailor Star Dust » Fri Sep 28, 2012 12:10 pm

New thread created for Sequel Theory since folks won't let the topic die.

You all know the rules by now: Keep the discussion civil when arguing your points or else this thread will be locked. The Rule of the Internet applies strongly here.

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Postby Bagheera » Fri Sep 28, 2012 12:25 pm

View Original PostLurkis wrote:It makes perfect sense :3 All the clues are there, and I will admit most of them can be explained both as a continuation and as a remake, but it's the ones that can't that convince me. For example, Kaworu saying "this time" etc.


That's actually the only thing that hasn't been explained just yet. Everything else has been addressed either directly in the show or in supplemental materials.
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Postby Lurkis » Fri Sep 28, 2012 12:25 pm

View Original PostSailor Star Dust wrote:New thread created for Sequel Theory since folks won't let the topic die.

You all know the rules by now: Keep the discussion civil when arguing your points or else this thread will be locked. The Rule of the Internet applies strongly here.


I don't think this topic will ever die until it is explained (if ever). It's similar to Asuka+Choke, will never die :p

Anyway, back on topic. It's been awhile since I really looked into the theory so if anyone has any recent updates or news on it, I would live to read them ^^"
Last edited by Lurkis on Fri Sep 28, 2012 12:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby Hyper Shinchan » Fri Sep 28, 2012 12:26 pm

View Original PostSailor Star Dust wrote:New thread created for Sequel Theory since folks won't let the topic die.

Sequel theory won't ever die or at least it won't die until NME is completed. Personally I'm more prone to believe in a vaguely connected, parallel dimension style, theory rather than a sequel tout-a-court.
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Postby Bagheera » Fri Sep 28, 2012 12:27 pm

View Original PostHyper Shinchan wrote:Sequel theory won't ever die or at least it won't die until NME is completed. Personally I'm more prone to believe in a vaguely connected, parallel dimension style, theory rather than a sequel tout-a-court.


Yeah, I'm thinking either that or something in Instrumentality.
For my post-3I fic, go here.
The law doesn't protect people. People protect the law. -- Akane Tsunemori, Psycho-Pass
People's deaths are to be mourned. The ability to save people should be celebrated. Life itself should be exalted. -- Volken Macmani, Tatakau Shisho: The Book of Bantorra
I hate myself. But maybe I can learn to love myself. Maybe it's okay for me to be here! That's right! I'm me, nothing more, nothing less! I'm me. I want to be me! I want to be here! And it's okay for me to be here! -- Shinji Ikari, Neon Genesis Evangelion
Yes, I know. You thought it would be something about Asuka. You're such idiots.

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Postby cd603 » Fri Sep 28, 2012 1:01 pm

I don't know, at the end of the day it all comes down to the same thing: it's just a theory. Neither side of the argument has enough solid evidence to disprove the other and really, until 4.0, there will be no definitive answer. And seeing how the direction discussion of this has been going so far, it wouldn't surprise me if Anno and Co. decide to leave it unanswered. I'm pretty sure there are still lingering questions from the original series, so why not the same of this?

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Postby Sailor Star Dust » Fri Sep 28, 2012 1:08 pm

View Original PostBagheera wrote:That's actually the only thing that hasn't been explained just yet. Everything else has been addressed either directly in the show or in supplemental materials.


I like the idea that Kaworu's lines of "this time" and knowing Shinji is either: A) Knowing Shinji as a child (either having known Shinji personally or knowing about him. My assumption is some awful event happened in Shinji's past (eg Yui dying) and little Shinji was terribly depressed about it--whether or not Kaworu was there to console him. Or couldn't console him, thus Kaworu's vow to make Shinji happy. Also insert any one of the ADAMS theory. Four Pilots (Kaworu/Mari/Shinji/Asuka. Or is Rei in the mix too?) having been ADAMS and Kaworu knowing Shinji from NME's Second Impact. Granted, I prefer the theory of four Eva units having been the ADAMS.

OR:

B) Knowing about Shinji's status as a pilot, similar to how NGE-Kaworu had knowledge about him before they met. (Episode 24: KAWORU: Don't you feel the same? Shinji Ikari? Shinji: My name... KAWORU: Everyone knows your name. I don't mean to be rude, but I think you should be a little more aware of your position.)

And I agree that IF sequel theory ends up true on some level, it's not a flat out sequel but instead some sort of parallel or multidimensional thing going on. And/or something something Instrumentality.
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Postby Hyper Shinchan » Fri Sep 28, 2012 1:11 pm

^
Well, there's still the bit about "you're still the Third, you never change" (sorry if it's not a precise translation, I'm going by memory) which is a little hard to explain without a reference to his unchanged status as 3rd "Children"/Shonen. Every attempt at changing this reference really seems twisted and forced to me.
So let’s make a wish.
“Please let me redo again.”
No matter how many times

From the book “All About Nagisa Kaworu: A Child of Evangelion”.

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Postby Sailor Star Dust » Fri Sep 28, 2012 1:32 pm

View Original PostHyper Shinchan wrote:Well, there's still the bit about "you're still the Third, you never change" (sorry if it's not a precise translation, I'm going by memory)


I remember for awhile people thought that line had to do with either the third angel or that third moon coffin, but neither make sense from what we understand so far.

The "you never change" part is pretty straightforward with possibly knowing Shinji in the past, but the "Third again" part is really...yeah. Kaworu's literally saying the number three, nothing about pilot status.

Here's what I get from the Japanese lines, somebody correct me if I screwed something up.

1.0 wrote:Kaworu: ……分かっているよ。あちらの少年が目覚め、概括の段階に入ったんだろ
...I know. That boy down there is waking. I guess we enter the Generalization Phase.

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Kaworu: また三番目とはね。変わらないな君は。会える時が楽しみだよ、碇シンジ君
The third again, huh. You never change, do you. I look forward to meeting you, Ikari Shinji-kun.


And just for fun, Kaworu's lines at the end of 2.0:

2.0 wrote:Kaworu: さあ、約束の時だ。碇シンジ君
Come now, it's the promised time, Ikari Shinji-kun.

Kaworu:今度こそ君だけは・・・幸せにしてみせるよ
This time I will certainly make...only you happy.


Looking at all this again, it's making me think that, from what little we've know and speculated so far, the ADAMS theory (this thread) is more correct than anything. Kaworu implies in 1.0 he hasn't met Shinji, then in 2.0 he babbles about "THIS time"....

(Baw, I wanted the Eva units to be the ADAMS. The kids--besides "unknowns" like Rei and Kaworu--having been supernatural beings just doesn't sit right with me.)

Although we also have to keep in mind there's lots of babbling from both Seele and Nerv about a Contract with Lilith. Hm, something about the Adams or the Dead Sea Scrolls (Apocrypha included or not), I guess?
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Postby Sachi » Fri Sep 28, 2012 1:38 pm

I think if sequel theory is going to have any credence at all, it's still always going to remain a theory. Anno strikes me as the kind of guy that would keep it vague, dropping hints and red herrings here and there, and ultimately leave it open to interpretation at the end. It's what he's been doing so far; and it's what he did with EoE, though with different subject matter. Flat out presenting it to the audience with the twist that this is in fact a sequel seems boring and almost expected, and subverting expectation is something Anno does quite often.
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Postby Hyper Shinchan » Fri Sep 28, 2012 1:42 pm

View Original PostSailor Star Dust wrote:The "you never change" part is pretty straightforward with possibly knowing Shinji in the past, but the "Third again" part is really...yeah. Kaworu's literally saying the number three, nothing about pilot status.

We know that Shinji is related to the number three because of its pilot status in both NGE and NME, why should we have to think that it's something else when we DO already know that he could be simply referring to that? I know that you guys don't like applying Occam's Razor to fiction but I really don't see any big reason to make complicated theories about the ADAMS and whatnot when there's a simple answer.
Last edited by Hyper Shinchan on Fri Sep 28, 2012 1:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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From the book “All About Nagisa Kaworu: A Child of Evangelion”.

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Postby Sailor Star Dust » Fri Sep 28, 2012 1:46 pm

View Original PostHyper Shinchan wrote:As far as we know Shinji is related to the number three because of its pilot status


All I mean is the Japanese isn't using the NME-phrase 第3の少年 (The Third Boy) or anything similar in that scene. "Children" for the pilot numbering isn't used in NME, instead we get First Girl, Second Girl, Third Boy, etc.
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Postby Hyper Shinchan » Fri Sep 28, 2012 1:53 pm

View Original PostSailor Star Dust wrote:All I mean is the Japanese isn't using the NME-phrase 第3の少年 (The Third Boy) or anything similar in that scene.[/size]

Yeah but intuitively you could ask to yourself: "why is he saying that he's still the Third? What is the relation between Shinji and the number three?". I think that there's a quite simple and straightforward answer to that question.
"Children" for the pilot numbering isn't used in NME, instead we get First Girl, Second Girl, Third Boy, etc.

I know, I used the term, together with "Shonen=Boy", in reference to NGE.
So let’s make a wish.
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From the book “All About Nagisa Kaworu: A Child of Evangelion”.

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Postby Lurkis » Fri Sep 28, 2012 2:49 pm

It would definitely be nice to have a more definite answer by 4.0, while the vagueness worked for me in EoE, it could still be broken down and overall have a definite answer to the story.

Just really don't want to have something this controversial left hanging.

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Postby qu4d » Fri Sep 28, 2012 3:39 pm

View Original PostLurkis wrote:It makes perfect sense :3 All the clues are there, and I will admit most of them can be explained both as a continuation and as a remake, but it's the ones that can't that convince me. For example, Kaworu saying "this time" etc.


Then explain the magic behind with a logic. End of NGE = Shinji/Asuka at the beach after Third Impact. We dont know what happens after that.

NME = not that Shinji, with another backstory etc... what happens in between? World including all matter gets reset, but not the spear/lance?

It does not make sense in that way. If it's a sequel (which it could be), it would have to work another way.


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