On Dakimakura

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On Dakimakura

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Postby Bagheera » Thu Jul 12, 2012 11:07 pm

So, as I've noted elsewhere I am currently in San Diego, enjoying the ComiCon. There's an awful lot of merchandise here! :toothy: One thing I've noticed is that several vendors are selling dakimakura. Naturally, I have nothing against such things; if they're good enough for Xard, they're good enough for me! :sly: But one thing I have noticed that sicks out is that the girls on them all have the same damn expression: innocent embarrassment. You know what I mean: that babe in the woods look, the slight blush, the whole bit. And I keep wondering why.

Is this seriously all Otaku like? I mean, if I had something like that in my bed I'd feel like a damn pedophile. What's wrong with a woman who looks like she's glad to be there? Someone with a naughty face, a wicked smile that promises a wild night to come, an adult? Isn't that what you'd think a guy would want to see on a bedmate?

Maybe I'm expecting too much. Maybe guys who want that actually go out and get it from real women. But even still I'm surprised the blushing bit is so damn ubiquitous. Why isn't there more variety to the damn things?

(That said, blushing Rei in a dress is a lot more appealing than expressionless Rei in bandages. Mind you I'm not really keen on either of them, but given the choice . . . )
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Postby EvangelionFan » Thu Jul 12, 2012 11:28 pm

Upon seeing a thread with 'Dakimakura' in the title I immediately anticipated a pun about Xard owning a dakimakura. I was not surprised. Having said that, IIRC the Ranka/Sheryl dakimakura that he owns his actually one of the better ones I've seen, as it certainly doesn't have any of the lack-of-expression or cliche innocent embarassment that is probably the most unappealing aspect of the dakimakura one is likely to see for sale in the West.
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Postby bobbyfischer's ghost » Thu Jul 12, 2012 11:49 pm

At most con's I've been to, the Demand for body pillows is pretty high, but yes most of them do have the same innocent look on them, even Asuka I guess there's just a higher demand for innocent looking pillows. Though personally I can't understand their appeal.
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Postby Ceimoa Nan » Fri Jul 13, 2012 12:53 am

View Original PostBagheera wrote:What's wrong with a woman who looks like she's glad to be there? Someone with a naughty face, a wicked smile that promises a wild night to come, an adult?


Ugh, but that's so overdone! You look through the Sports Illustrated Swimsuit Issue, you look through a Victoria's Secret catalogue, you look at a billboard, models all have that same look. Like they're either pissed off at you, or they're trying to look cool while sleepy. Why not go for the innocent, playful, coy look every now and then? It's not that I'm attracted to "weak" women (well, maybe I am, but I don't think it's that simple), I just find the "confident, aggressive" look too monotonous, and am a little perplexed as to why it's so popular and there's not a supply and demand for this other "innocent" look like there seems to be in Japan. Is my society just not sexist and misogynistic enough for it? Maybe if America surrenders to another country after a nuclear strike, it'll develop an appreciation for cuteness.

That being said, a quick Google image search of "dakimakura," and I can see a few characters that the "innocent embarrassment" look doesn't fit. Yoko from Gurren Lagann? If I'm going to buy such pathetic merchandise, it better at least be in character.

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Postby Bagheera » Fri Jul 13, 2012 1:14 am

View Original PostCeimoa Nan wrote:Ugh, but that's so overdone! You look through the Sports Illustrated Swimsuit Issue, you look through a Victoria's Secret catalogue, you look at a billboard, models all have that same look. Like they're either pissed off at you, or they're trying to look cool while sleepy. Why not go for the innocent, playful, coy look every now and then? It's not that I'm attracted to "weak" women (well, maybe I am, but I don't think it's that simple), I just find the "confident, aggressive" look too monotonous, and am a little perplexed as to why it's so popular and there's not a supply and demand for this other "innocent" look like there seems to be in Japan. Is my society just not sexist and misogynistic enough for it? Maybe if America surrenders to another country after a nuclear strike, it'll develop an appreciation for cuteness.


:???: This whole paragraph makes no sense to me. Women who are confident in their sexuality is overdone? How is that even possible? I mean, there are all sorts of things wrong with the modeling industry (on so very many levels), but depicting the models as women who are confident people who want to be where they are sure as hell isn't part of it.

I can see an argument for making them seem more genuine (so much fake out there as it stands), but that's a separate issue. They should still look confident and happy to be there and adult.

That being said, a quick Google image search of "dakimakura," and I can see a few characters that the "innocent embarrassment" look doesn't fit. Yoko from Gurren Lagann? If I'm going to buy such pathetic merchandise, it better at least be in character.


Yeah, that's the worst of it. But then, thinking about the two Reis I saw today, I can see why they did it. Cute blushing Rei is revolting, but she's a lot better than expressionless bandaged Rei. The latter is IC but who would genuinely want to sleep with her? Don't answer that.

Gods damn it, this should be in the FML thread. I can't believe I'm lamenting the fact that dakimakura are sexist. :nono:
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Postby EvangelionFan » Fri Jul 13, 2012 1:39 am

Actually there are some Dakimakura with male characters on them, and some women do own them and some even take them outside.
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Postby Mr. Tines » Fri Jul 13, 2012 2:07 am

View Original PostBagheera wrote:Is this seriously all Otaku like?
Not just otaku -- more like LOL Japan when it comes to how women are portrayed in pretty much anything that's meant to be titillating.

I mean, if I had something like that in my bed I'd feel like a damn pedophile.
But then, how old are any of the girls supposed to be? Probably 17 tops, more likely 13-14. Anything older is going to be quite niche.

View Original PostEvangelionFan wrote:Actually there are some Dakimakura with male characters on them http://www.1999.co.jp/eng/10155296
Androgynes from Code Geass hardly count -- you want an Akagi Shigeru dakimakura. No reticent blushing there.
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Postby Ceimoa Nan » Fri Jul 13, 2012 2:54 am

View Original PostBagheera wrote::???: This whole paragraph makes no sense to me. Women who are confident in their sexuality is overdone? How is that even possible?


I can see an argument for making them seem more genuine (so much fake out there as it stands), but that's a separate issue. They should still look confident and happy to be there and adult.


My examples were from modeling, but I'm really speaking more broadly about media as a whole, whether we're talking about an anime character or a pin-up model. And within media, my idea is, there's this whole spectrum of personalities that females can have that might be considered "appealing." Confidence is somewhere in that spectrum. So is naughtiness or assertiveness, and these three might be grouped together. Innocence is somewhere in that spectrum, but it might be far away from confidence. Same with coyness or ditziness.

I think finding those innocent personalities appealing is just as valid as finding confident personalities appealing, even if it smells like sexism. It sounds to me like you're saying, "They should only look confident and happy to be there and adult." We sacrifice diversity of character for, I guess, providing strong female role models. Are there not ditzy or shy women in real life? And so what if it turns me on when a girl does something ditzy or innocent? I'll admit I'm probably exaggerating how few of these representations there are nowadays; we usually think there's not enough of what we like. Maybe Japan (or just otaku culture) goes too far in valuing innocent women, but I think the West goes too far in valuing confident women. I'd rather have a mix of what's appealing in the West and what's appealing in Japan, than just what's appealing in the West.

Come to think of it, one obstacle to making characters on dakimakura appear "adult" is that so many of them are, canonically, actually twelve- or fourteen-year-olds. When deciding whether or not the dakimakura you're sleeping with should make you feel like a pedophile, "does she act like an underaged girl?" isn't as urgent a question as "is she an underaged girl?"

Mr. Tines wrote:Androgynes from Code Geass hardly count -- you want an Akagi Shigeru dakimakura. No reticent blushing there.


I didn't know who Akagi Shigeru was, but I was expecting someone like the main character of Fist of the North Star. I'm a little disappointed.

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Postby Mr. Tines » Fri Jul 13, 2012 3:39 am

View Original PostCeimoa Nan wrote:I didn't know who Akagi Shigeru was
I suppose that kinda takes the impact away.

I was expecting someone like the main character of Fist of the North Star. I'm a little disappointed.
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Postby InstrumentalityOne » Fri Jul 13, 2012 5:02 am

If I were to get a dakimakura I'd like one with a condescending and a neutral almost pitying-indifferent side.
But that's just me and that'll never happen cause otaku just want their pure pure kyun ♥ ~ blush machines that shy away from impure things like indirect kisses and pillow dickings.

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Postby Fireball » Fri Jul 13, 2012 5:25 am

Yeah, I think this ties in with otaku's obsession with purity. It provides the illussion that you are the first and only one who will see her like that.
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Postby Bagheera » Fri Jul 13, 2012 10:34 am

View Original PostFireball wrote:Yeah, I think this ties in with otaku's obsession with purity. It provides the illussion that you are the first and only one who will see her like that.


Good point. Silly me for wanting competence over purity! :rolleyes:
For my post-3I fic, go here.
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People's deaths are to be mourned. The ability to save people should be celebrated. Life itself should be exalted. -- Volken Macmani, Tatakau Shisho: The Book of Bantorra
I hate myself. But maybe I can learn to love myself. Maybe it's okay for me to be here! That's right! I'm me, nothing more, nothing less! I'm me. I want to be me! I want to be here! And it's okay for me to be here! -- Shinji Ikari, Neon Genesis Evangelion
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Postby CJD » Fri Jul 13, 2012 12:06 pm

View Original PostBagheera wrote:Good point. Silly me for wanting competence over purity! :rolleyes:


I'm failing to see incompetence.

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Postby Mr. Tines » Fri Jul 13, 2012 12:19 pm

View Original PostFireball wrote:Yeah, I think this ties in with otaku's obsession with purity.
I don't think it's just otaku; when JAVs have a reputation for girls just submitting to whatever is being done to them (playing the dead fish, with occasional crying or squeaking), it's more a culture that expects female sexuality to be suppressed.
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Postby Bagheera » Fri Jul 13, 2012 12:23 pm

View Original PostCJD wrote:I'm failing to see incompetence.


If a person's never done it before it's a given that they won't know what to do. Ignorance is a central part of the whole purity model.

View Original PostMr. Tines wrote:I don't think it's just otaku; when JAVs have a reputation for girls just submitting to whatever is being done to them (playing the dead fish, with occasional crying or squeaking), it's more a culture that expects female sexuality to be suppressed.


Yeah. And it's mind-boggling to me; if you really want that, get a Realdoll or something. If the woman's not an active participant she has no real reason to be there.
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The law doesn't protect people. People protect the law. -- Akane Tsunemori, Psycho-Pass
People's deaths are to be mourned. The ability to save people should be celebrated. Life itself should be exalted. -- Volken Macmani, Tatakau Shisho: The Book of Bantorra
I hate myself. But maybe I can learn to love myself. Maybe it's okay for me to be here! That's right! I'm me, nothing more, nothing less! I'm me. I want to be me! I want to be here! And it's okay for me to be here! -- Shinji Ikari, Neon Genesis Evangelion
Yes, I know. You thought it would be something about Asuka. You're such idiots.

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Postby CJD » Fri Jul 13, 2012 1:34 pm

View Original PostBagheera wrote:If a person's never done it before it's a given that they won't know what to do. Ignorance is a central part of the whole purity model.


Ok cool, I thought you were saying the dakimakura's or the people who made them were incompetent.

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Postby Xard » Fri Jul 13, 2012 3:41 pm

View Original PostBagheera wrote:Naturally, I have nothing against such things; if they're good enough for Xard, they're good enough for me! :sly:


Image

it's like a comedy routine already and I'm always the receiving end... it's like tsukkomi where I don't even need to act boke to get hit

a natural boke, that shall be my name orz

View Original PostBagheera wrote:Is this seriously all Otaku like? I mean, if I had something like that in my bed I'd feel like a damn pedophile.


d-demo h-hazukashii monn~~



fine fine fine, I'll just keep happily sliding down the kimo ota pedo faggot scale and admit I think there's some sensual quality to such blush and as long as it fits the character I'd rather take that than titmonster grin face :dejected: :dejected: :dejected:

View Original PostEvangelionFan wrote:Upon seeing a thread with 'Dakimakura' in the title I immediately anticipated a pun about Xard owning a dakimakura. I was not surprised. Having said that, IIRC the Ranka/Sheryl dakimakura that he owns his actually one of the better ones I've seen, as it certainly doesn't have any of the lack-of-expression or cliche innocent embarassment that is probably the most unappealing aspect of the dakimakura one is likely to see for sale in the West.


:um:

It's off the tamer end of scale (as symbv said he thought sending something more risky might've been fatal for my health, a good call...) and lacks the dakimakura characteristics because it's just slightly modified from some official magazine art:
ランカちゃん(^ω^)ペロペロ  SPOILER: Show
Image


Official art made for dakimakura to begin with already fits the mold better:

Image

though clearly they're still far from the typical doujinshi pillow look.... Which seems to be to some degree more usual with official products but clearly it depends on series...


p.s. if someone with surpluss money wants to take part in trolling me please go ahead and do so :D

View Original PostInstrumentalityOne wrote:If I were to get a dakimakura I'd like one with a condescending and a neutral almost pitying-indifferent side.


how exactly I'm the masochist out of us two? :lol:

View Original PostFireball wrote:It provides the illussion that you are the first and only one who will see her like that.


but unless youre a waifu slut that's the case!

besides, what kind of fag would you have to be to loan out your dakimakura? It really is something only you have the privilege to see like that! So yeah, it makes sense


To be frank Bagheera's criticisms are mean spirited and completely unfair. As long as you're not into used goods gals these ladies haven't gone around much: they've probably never seen much of the world beyond their birthplace where they were lovingly sewn together.

Expecting mature confidence from these hatchlings is completely unreasonable and self-centered!
ran1: Oh gosh this sentence gave me an internet boner. You're so tsundere.
Mugwump: Goddamn it, Xard! Take me in your arms, you magnificent sex god bastard!
And don't forget to wear the Ran mask.
Eva Yojimbo: You really are the Otaku equivalent of a Catholic and Jew rolled up into one giant dakimakura of guilt.
Gob Hobblin: Sanctimonious, subtly racist, vaguely misogynist, somehow says something while at the same time saying...nothing, really, at all....

Nice, Xard. That's nice.

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Postby Mr. Tines » Fri Jul 13, 2012 3:52 pm

View Original PostBagheera wrote:if you really want that, get a Realdoll or something.
You do have to clean up the Realdoll yourself; but with that sort of attitude, it's not surprising that the hug-pillow gf also took off.

View Original PostBagheera wrote:the girls on them all have the same damn expression: innocent embarrassment. You know what I mean: that babe in the woods look, the slight blush, the whole bit.
You're not the only one to have noticed this -- while looking for some links to post I hit on a review which made this comment about a new acquisition:

Rim-chan gives you the impression that she’s going to cry “Onii-chan… Dame…” at any moment,


View Original PostMr. Tines wrote:Probably 17 tops, more likely 13-14.
And then of course there's this official merch and this (never mind the doujin works).
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Postby Fireball » Fri Jul 13, 2012 4:07 pm

View Original PostXard wrote:but unless youre a waifu slut that's the case!

True. Looking at Google, the Panty & Stocking ones should be more up Bag's alley.
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Postby Xard » Fri Jul 13, 2012 4:20 pm

View Original PostMr. Tines wrote:You're not the only one to have noticed this -- while looking for some links to post I hit on a review which made this comment about a new acquisition:


lol this guy, I like the cut of his jib. A true gentleman and a scholar.

Not suprised he lives in Japan because constant exposure to Japanese fandom tends to do that. In some sense Japanese anime fandom is way less inhibited than the western outside anonymous image boards but generally (well, outside their anonymous boards) they're less rude :lol:

View Original PostFireball wrote:True. Looking at Google, the Panty & Stocking ones should be more up Bag's alley.


hah, true

Here's huge compendium of (I presume, they look like it) official dakimakuras. They're not all exactly the same in expressions and the like, even if common strains are easy to spot
ran1: Oh gosh this sentence gave me an internet boner. You're so tsundere.
Mugwump: Goddamn it, Xard! Take me in your arms, you magnificent sex god bastard!
And don't forget to wear the Ran mask.
Eva Yojimbo: You really are the Otaku equivalent of a Catholic and Jew rolled up into one giant dakimakura of guilt.
Gob Hobblin: Sanctimonious, subtly racist, vaguely misogynist, somehow says something while at the same time saying...nothing, really, at all....

Nice, Xard. That's nice.


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