Remaining Questions I Have From NGE

For serious and at times in-depth discussions only, covering the original TV series, the movies End of Evangelion and Death & Rebirth.

Moderator: Board Staff

Forum rules
By visiting this forum, you agree to read the rules for discussion and abide by them.
Bagheera
Asuka's Bulldog
Asuka's Bulldog
User avatar
Posts: 18679
Joined: Oct 15, 2010

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Bagheera » Sat Feb 25, 2012 5:33 pm

Karex_Usyrion: Your response is full of obvious errors, and not worth specific replies. Please rewatch the show and get your facts straight and we'll try again later.

View Original PostJornophelanthas wrote:What I believe the MPEs are doing is summoning Lilith towards Unit-01. Whatever the MPE-ritual specifically consists of, it is directed at Lilith, and Rei therefore senses it in her soul, which is Lilith's. And she feels compelled to act on it.


I don't believe that's the case. SEELE has said that Lilith is not necessary for their iteration of 3I (though I can't find the specific reference at the moment), which means the MPEs' efforts had another target. Since they are also noted as being substitutes for the Lance I believe their role was to mark and bind Unit 01 so it could become a repository for humanity's souls. They continue in their task when the Lance returns because they (presumably) do not know whether or not it will play ball. But when Lilith shows up and the Lance does its own Tree of Life thingie the Harpies go "oh, well, never mind" and just sorta sit around until Lilith tells them to stab themselves and release their souls.

(I should probably wait to explain this in the thread I promised to make on the subject, but it's proving to be a greater project than anticipated. Might take awhile, but I'm working on it.)

However, I also believe the MPE's were meant to do more. Specifically, I believe they were meant to direct Lilith in directing Third Impact towards SEELE's conception of Instrumentality. Since Lilith is strictly an Angel, it has no will of its own, and needs guidance according to SEELE's wishes. The SDSS provide the manual.


That probably fits with one iteration of their plan. All they really need to make it work is some MPEs and Unit 01; they can also do it with the Lance, with Lilith, or with some combination of all of the above.

As for the rest . . . meh.
For my post-3I fic, go here.
The law doesn't protect people. People protect the law. -- Akane Tsunemori, Psycho-Pass
People's deaths are to be mourned. The ability to save people should be celebrated. Life itself should be exalted. -- Volken Macmani, Tatakau Shisho: The Book of Bantorra
I hate myself. But maybe I can learn to love myself. Maybe it's okay for me to be here! That's right! I'm me, nothing more, nothing less! I'm me. I want to be me! I want to be here! And it's okay for me to be here! -- Shinji Ikari, Neon Genesis Evangelion
Yes, I know. You thought it would be something about Asuka. You're such idiots.

Karex_Usyrion
Adam
Age: 46
Posts: 77
Joined: Feb 19, 2012
Location: california
Gender: Male

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Karex_Usyrion » Sat Feb 25, 2012 6:18 pm

Your response is full of obvious errors, and not worth specific replies. Please rewatch the show and get your facts straight and we'll try again later.



Outrageous. I'm the one using numbered episodes, quotes from the characters dialogue, depicted events, clear answers and that's full of "obvious" errors? Where do you have a single episode reference? You are out of line, atrocious, even disrespectful implying I have not watched enough times. Thank you for not replying actually, I see how weightless your feedback and input is.
Last edited by Karex_Usyrion on Sat Feb 25, 2012 6:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
20 years living the Evangelion_Lifestyle

Mr. Tines
Administrator
Administrator
User avatar
Age: 66
Posts: 21373
Joined: Nov 23, 2004
Location: This sceptered isle.
Gender: Male
Contact:

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Mr. Tines » Sat Feb 25, 2012 6:39 pm

I usually stay out of thread like this that verge on the theological, where intricate webs of inference are built over places where the story looks like this

Image

@Bagheera
Would it hurt to cite specific examples of "obvious errors" -- even just a couple -- rather than just make an airy dismissal?

View Original PostJornophelanthas wrote:He would have become a terrible, all-powerful patriarch god, and the entire world would have been locked in that stasis for all eternity.


We have a "Gendo wins" scenario in the NGE2 game as a benchmark.

Also

uniting Shinji's and Yui's souls inside of his divine form  SPOILER: Show
Image
Reminder: Play nicely <<>> My vanity publishing:- NGE|blog|Photos|retro-blog|Fanfics &c.|MAL|𝕏|🐸|🦣
Avatar: art deco Asuka

Alaska Slim
Frigus Ignoramus
Frigus Ignoramus
User avatar
Posts: 5013
Joined: Oct 08, 2007
Location: The Land Up Over
Gender: Male

Adress. Bl

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Alaska Slim » Sat Feb 25, 2012 6:52 pm

View Original PostKarex_Usyrion wrote:There is totally a program.

There is a program, but it's pretty ad hoc.

Shinji was more or less destined to be a child, given Yui's plans.

Rei might have been an accident, unclear, but she got in due to Gendo's meddling, not because she fell under some kind of directive. Seele's implied not to even know the full extent of her existence.

Asuka is neptotism equal to Shinji, her mother was a key researcher on the project, and likely knew what was to happen to her or at least had an idea.

Without knowing who Touji's mother was, he's the sole pilot here who wasn't in some way meddled into being a destined child. A pool of candidates, kids whose mothers were dead or dying were collected, with relatives who were already associated with NERV in some way, and he was one of them.

View Original PostKarex_Usyrion wrote:military tactical and strategic knowledge

Don't oversell it, he's shown to be ecstatic over military tech, he speaks nothing over how it is used or tactics in which to use them.

The closest you have to that, is Asuka.

View Original PostKarex_Usyrion wrote:After second impact America is not what it was, likely mostly in ruins after the nuclear exchanges, not leaders and not leading any project.

They made a majority of the U.N. fleet, had two of the NERV branches, and were the only ones to fight the NERV budget.

Their power has shrunk, but they are implied to still be a force in the world.

View Original PostKarex_Usyrion wrote:There is no natural nor logical relation nor progression between branch locations and a pilot's nationality.

This I agree, since all the "4th level" candidates are in Shinji's class, that's where they would likely come from next (Kawrou aside).

Asuka technically is an American, so the political representation is already there.

View Original PostKarex_Usyrion wrote:For the purposes of and during the S2 test. Unit 04 was perhaps core-less during the test but is not viable without a soul outside of the test.

The core is more than likely were the soul is kept, this is a stretch, not a given.
"Therefore encourage one another and build one another up, just as you are doing." - 1 Thessalonians 5:11

"It is one of the blessings of old friends that you can afford to be stupid with them." -Ralph Waldo Emerson

"God is in his Heaven, and free men walk upon the Earth" - Rev. Robert Sirico, President of the Acton Institute

Bagheera
Asuka's Bulldog
Asuka's Bulldog
User avatar
Posts: 18679
Joined: Oct 15, 2010

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Bagheera » Sat Feb 25, 2012 7:50 pm

View Original PostMr. Tines wrote:@Bagheera
Would it hurt to cite specific examples of "obvious errors" -- even just a couple -- rather than just make an airy dismissal?


I tried that already, and it didn't work. But since you ask, fine:

-- Kaji's investigations tell us quite explicitly that the Marduk Institute is a front, and that there's nothing to it. The "program" yields exactly one candidate over the course of the show. Gendo gathered the kids in class 2A by his own means, and for all we know the same happened independently at other branches around the world (note all the named kids in class 2A, apart from Asuka (who came to Japan after she was selected to be an Eva pilot ten years earlier in Germany), are Japanese).

-- He speaks of moving the kids from class 2A to Germany to "tie up loose ends", and when I note they aren't loose ends starts going on about Section 2 and monitored phone calls -- things that are only ever seen to matter in the context of the Eva pilots.

-- When I said the kids in the class were ordinary children, and thus not of much use to SEELE, and hence likely were not moved to Germany to become the souls of the MPEs, he responded with a digression about the Eva pilots -- who were never slated to make such a move.

-- He claims Kensuke's special and supports this notion by citing traits common to every military otaku on the planet.

-- He says America's in ruins after 2I even though it's home to two NERV branches and controls the bulk of the U.N. Fleet.

-- He claims there's no relation between the locality of the Branch that builds an Eva and the nationality of its pilot, despite the fact that Units 00 and 01 were built in Japan and had Japanese pilots while Unit 02 was assembled and maintained in Germany and had a German pilot (technically American, yes, but she was raised in Germany). There's no reason things wouldn't have been the same with Units 03 and 04 if the activation of Unit 04 hadn't been sabotaged.

-- He claims Unit 03 couldn't have an American pilot because it already had the soul of Toji's mother. But we know from ep. 17 that Unit 03's core is prepared after it's set to be delivered to Japan. That is to say, after the disaster with Unit 04 in Nevada. Had the disaster not occurred it would not have been transferred, and thus would never have received the soul of Toji's mother.

-- He says that Unit 04 was probably coreless during its test but nonetheless had a soul. How he makes that work in his head when all available evidence indicates the Eva's soul is housed in its core is beyond me.

And that's off the top of my head. There's an impressive amount of wrong in his arguments.
For my post-3I fic, go here.
The law doesn't protect people. People protect the law. -- Akane Tsunemori, Psycho-Pass
People's deaths are to be mourned. The ability to save people should be celebrated. Life itself should be exalted. -- Volken Macmani, Tatakau Shisho: The Book of Bantorra
I hate myself. But maybe I can learn to love myself. Maybe it's okay for me to be here! That's right! I'm me, nothing more, nothing less! I'm me. I want to be me! I want to be here! And it's okay for me to be here! -- Shinji Ikari, Neon Genesis Evangelion
Yes, I know. You thought it would be something about Asuka. You're such idiots.

Reichu
Admin Emeritus
Admin Emeritus
Posts: 24046
Joined: Aug 21, 2004
Location: Sailing for the white shores
Gender: Female
Contact:

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Reichu » Sat Feb 25, 2012 8:15 pm

Eva-04 would have needed a core to house the S2 Engine, at least.
さらば、全てのEvaGeeks。
「滅びの運命は新生の喜びでもある」
Departure Message | The Arqa Apocrypha: An Evangelion Analysis Blog

driftking18594
Nerv Scientist
Nerv Scientist
User avatar
Age: 29
Posts: 1660
Joined: Sep 26, 2011
Location: WILLE Irish Outpost
Gender: Male

Re: Remaining Questions I Have From NGE

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby driftking18594 » Sun Feb 26, 2012 7:54 am

View Original PostRightstated wrote:13.)
What was the soul of the Mass Production Evas? Explain.


I kinda thought that they used the souls of people that SEELE would have considered "pure" - e.g. nuns or children brought up in SEELE's "care".

AuraTwilight
Evangelion
Evangelion
User avatar
Posts: 3331
Joined: Mar 16, 2008
Location: Za Warudo

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby AuraTwilight » Sun Feb 26, 2012 4:06 pm

For the purposes of and during the S2 test. Unit 04 was perhaps core-less during the test but is not viable without a soul outside of the test. Precept still holds: it was not going to be unmanned, needed a child pilot since no dummy plugin system yet, therefore had been planned with and had a soul.


Doesn't mean a pilot and soul were actually SELECTED yet, just that it was going to be.
J_Faulkner, be warned that some of your statements could be construed as ad hominem attacks. -- Priceless, eternal irony

Anno has perfected the side boob --Gendo'sPapa

Karex_Usyrion
Adam
Age: 46
Posts: 77
Joined: Feb 19, 2012
Location: california
Gender: Male

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Karex_Usyrion » Mon Feb 27, 2012 12:38 am

Readers dedicating time to this thread will discern that the author of "obvious errors" , Bagheera, does not propose or uphold any other alternative theories to Class 2-A souls in the MP Evas and has only intensified efforts to discredit that single theory. Having an agenda is having something which is to be done, discredit is what is to be done, along the way turning to being disrespectful, using imperative language and being dismissive upfront. I joined 19 Feb 2012. Instead of any form of Netiquette, many would see this as `stomp out the newbie' : this is what is an impressive amount of wrong.

"obvious errors" are being laid out by paraphrasing in a manipulative way, thus creating them only there. They do not convey the source meaning, instead changing what I wrote to something else in several places with a different meaning altogether. No one else is independently confirming any "obvious errors".

To the points :

Kaji's investigations tell us quite explicitly that the Marduk Institute is a front, and that there's nothing to it


The Marduk Institute is a front. A front is a facade concealing deception. A front doesn't mean there's nothing to it and it is not a meaningless void: it is an artifice. Being a front doesn't mean it did not play a role, nor that it did not carry out actions and exert authority to select, prepare and establish candidates and pilots. It was Tokyo centric and more so for the command actually behind. Point for this framework not being conducive to have American pilots for Unit 03 and 04 still stands. As pointed out, Asuka already fulfilled political representation for America in Unit 02. Yet more American pilots would have met resistance: why are the majority of the pilots Americans?

He speaks of moving the kids from class 2A to Germany to "tie up loose ends"


The conjecture about the kids moving from Class 2-A to Germany was expressed in the context of the storyboard collection which was brought up by someone else. I never wrote that they were moved to Germany in fact in any TVE nor EoE. The possibility is left open, there are no facts to cancel it. There are unfinished, unsettled details as in loose ends : the kids are monitored, they can't run away nor leave at will, it's not only pilots (it was Kensuke's phone call).

When I said the kids in the class were ordinary children, and thus not of much use to SEELE, and hence likely were not moved to Germany


The kids in Class 2-A were not ordinary. There are no errors with the layout I wrote with examples and factual reasons they are far from ordinary.

He claims Kensuke's special


Granted, I oversold the point with Kensuke's military attributes but the instances and characteristics are additive in effect, and still contribute to the proposal. In TVEpisode 1 Kensuke generates a 3D model of the entry plug.

Reichu: "Kensuke's doing it from memory - I'm actually surprised it's as accurate as it is".

He says America's in ruins after 2I


I wrote likely mostly in ruins. Ruins are across different regions and aspects (society in ruins, law & order in ruins, economy in ruins, actual rubble, etc), I did not write `absolutely, completely in ruins'. TVEpisode 21 : there were nuclear exchanges and UN headquarters had to move to Japan.

He claims there's no relation between the locality of the Branch that builds an Eva and the nationality of its pilot


The Marduk Institute and those behind as I've laid out, the diminished status of America seem factors that overbear a simplistic approach reduced to "country of the branch equals a pilot from that country".

Had the disaster not occurred it would not have been transferred


This is incorrect. The Angels were not visiting America ever. Unit 03 and Unit 04, had the disaster not occurred, were going to Tokyo.

It could have been planned beforehand for Unit 03 to have Toji's mother's soul in it or Toji could have been selected beforehand. There's no definitive order of whether the mother's soul is selected first fixing the pilot or whether the pilot with an available mother's soul is fixed first.

He says that Unit 04 was probably coreless during its test but nonetheless had a soul.


I wrote "perhaps core-less". To clarify, I meant "perhaps with the core removed" as in temporarily core-less. I did not describe any Eva that does not have a core, that was or could have been built with any sort of design that does not require a core.
20 years living the Evangelion_Lifestyle

Na7e
Bardiel
Bardiel
User avatar
Age: 30
Posts: 795
Joined: Dec 08, 2011
Location: New York
Gender: Male

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Na7e » Mon Feb 27, 2012 1:39 am

View Original PostKarex_Usyrion wrote:The Marduk Institute is a front. A front is a facade concealing deception. A front doesn't mean there's nothing to it and it is not a meaningless void: it is an artifice. Being a front doesn't mean it did not play a role, nor that it did not carry out actions and exert authority to select, prepare and establish candidates and pilots.


It had a role, as a 'secret' selection committee off investigators. As for the rest since Nerv hand picked all the pilots it really didn't have authority or prepare and establish candidates.

View Original PostKarex_Usyrion wrote:As pointed out, Asuka already fulfilled political representation for America in Unit 02. Yet more American pilots would have met resistance: why are the majority of the pilots Americans?


Asuka has duel citizenship from the fact that her father was American. But, born and raised in Germany. Unit-02 was built/designed in Germany. So America really can't claim political representation from her. And, even then the nationalities would be 2 Japanese, 2 American, 1 German. If anything Germany should be pissed.

View Original PostKarex_Usyrion wrote:Granted, I oversold the point with Kensuke's military attributes but the instances and characteristics are additive in effect, and still contribute to the proposal. In TVEpisode 1 Kensuke generates a 3D model of the entry plug.


Kensuke's not even in the first episode, he isn't officially introduced until episode three.

As for the military tactics he's like every other young kid, in "WAR IS AWESOME!" he doesn't think about the consequences just he wants to be the brave hero to fight in the awesome battle. And, has no idea how to actually do anything, since you know he's not formally trained.

As for the 3d model of the entry plug, it's not exactly hard it's a giant cylinder.

Reichu
Admin Emeritus
Admin Emeritus
Posts: 24046
Joined: Aug 21, 2004
Location: Sailing for the white shores
Gender: Female
Contact:

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Reichu » Mon Feb 27, 2012 1:55 am

View Original PostNa7e wrote:As for the 3d model of the entry plug, it's not exactly hard it's a giant cylinder.

Kensuke was recreating the interior array from memory.

SPOILER: Show
Image


The intel division really needs to neuralize that kid.
さらば、全てのEvaGeeks。
「滅びの運命は新生の喜びでもある」
Departure Message | The Arqa Apocrypha: An Evangelion Analysis Blog

Karex_Usyrion
Adam
Age: 46
Posts: 77
Joined: Feb 19, 2012
Location: california
Gender: Male

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Karex_Usyrion » Mon Feb 27, 2012 2:23 am

Kensuke's not even in the first episode, he isn't officially introduced until episode three.


I made a typo, my apologies. In TVEpisode 3 Kensuke generates a 3D model of the entry plug.

I don't see just a cylinder in the image. If you have ever used AutoCAD, OrCAD, MicroStation or similar or if you research creating the composite shown you will recognize a good skill set.
Last edited by Karex_Usyrion on Mon Feb 27, 2012 2:32 am, edited 1 time in total.
20 years living the Evangelion_Lifestyle

Alaska Slim
Frigus Ignoramus
Frigus Ignoramus
User avatar
Posts: 5013
Joined: Oct 08, 2007
Location: The Land Up Over
Gender: Male

Politics is more fickle. B/

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Alaska Slim » Mon Feb 27, 2012 2:24 am

View Original PostNa7e wrote:So America really can't claim political representation from her.

No one would stop them if they did.

Whether Asuka is the American representative is entirely dependent on America's choice in the matter, not anyone else.

It's not if she can be, it's if American would want her to be, or if given her primarily European background, would say she's not enough.

In the Olympics, it's now allowed for representatives to not even be citizens of the nation they represent, they need only have some fractional bloodline to the country in question.

In that respect, Asuka more than qualifies.
"Therefore encourage one another and build one another up, just as you are doing." - 1 Thessalonians 5:11

"It is one of the blessings of old friends that you can afford to be stupid with them." -Ralph Waldo Emerson

"God is in his Heaven, and free men walk upon the Earth" - Rev. Robert Sirico, President of the Acton Institute

Reichu
Admin Emeritus
Admin Emeritus
Posts: 24046
Joined: Aug 21, 2004
Location: Sailing for the white shores
Gender: Female
Contact:

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Reichu » Mon Feb 27, 2012 2:30 am

Perhaps the OP can chime in at some point and let us know if further clarification is needed on anything. This thread seriously lacks direction without.
さらば、全てのEvaGeeks。
「滅びの運命は新生の喜びでもある」
Departure Message | The Arqa Apocrypha: An Evangelion Analysis Blog

Na7e
Bardiel
Bardiel
User avatar
Age: 30
Posts: 795
Joined: Dec 08, 2011
Location: New York
Gender: Male

Re: Politics is more fickle. B/

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Na7e » Mon Feb 27, 2012 3:00 am

View Original PostAlaska Slim wrote:Whether Asuka is the American representative is entirely dependent on America's choice in the matter, not anyone else.


Not really considering she was born and raised in Germany. Germany has every right to claim her as their representative. But, given the fact global politics have shifted since second impact it gets rather iffy. Shouldn't have spoken in absolutes though, how about 'hard time claiming representation'.

View Original PostAlaska Slim wrote:In the Olympics, it's now allowed for representatives to not even be citizens of the nation they represent, they need only have some fractional bloodline to the country in question.


See that's the thing though, Asuka's a quarter German, Japanese, most likely has English in her considering the name Langley. By that logic, a number of nations could lay claim to her.

Alaska Slim
Frigus Ignoramus
Frigus Ignoramus
User avatar
Posts: 5013
Joined: Oct 08, 2007
Location: The Land Up Over
Gender: Male

Re: Politics is more fickle. B/

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Alaska Slim » Mon Feb 27, 2012 3:56 am

View Original PostNa7e wrote:Not really considering she was born and raised in Germany.

It doesn't matter, we've had Governors and Senators born and raised in different countries, along with Olympiads.

She could represent two nations, there's nothing stopping that. Assuming she holds dual citizenship, there could be a "referendum of understanding" or some such that makes it so.

The only obstacle, as it has always been, is whether or not America would agree to it. Their choice.
"Therefore encourage one another and build one another up, just as you are doing." - 1 Thessalonians 5:11

"It is one of the blessings of old friends that you can afford to be stupid with them." -Ralph Waldo Emerson

"God is in his Heaven, and free men walk upon the Earth" - Rev. Robert Sirico, President of the Acton Institute

Bagheera
Asuka's Bulldog
Asuka's Bulldog
User avatar
Posts: 18679
Joined: Oct 15, 2010

Re: Politics is more fickle. B/

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Bagheera » Mon Feb 27, 2012 6:51 am

View Original PostNa7e wrote:Not really considering she was born and raised in Germany. Germany has every right to claim her as their representative.


Points of order: Asuka was born in Japan. Likewise, Unit 02 was built in Japan. Both moved to Germany with Kyoko Soryu for Unit 02's final assembly and Contact Experiment. After the CE turned into a disaster (or not, depending on how you look at it) Asuka remained there with her father and new stepmother.

She likely has dual citizenship, but whether her second nationality is German or Japanese depends on Kyoko -- Japan requires that people with dual citizenship commit to one by their 22nd birthday, and given Kyoko's background and name it is (IMO) likely she chose Japan. That would make Asuka Japanese and American, despite her German background and status as a foreigner in Japan.

But in any event she's no representative of America despite her American citizenship, and that has no bearing on what the First and Second branch would do/demand regardless. And past that when we look at how things played out in the show it's clear she represents Germany (to the extent such things matter), not America, citizenship be damned.
For my post-3I fic, go here.
The law doesn't protect people. People protect the law. -- Akane Tsunemori, Psycho-Pass
People's deaths are to be mourned. The ability to save people should be celebrated. Life itself should be exalted. -- Volken Macmani, Tatakau Shisho: The Book of Bantorra
I hate myself. But maybe I can learn to love myself. Maybe it's okay for me to be here! That's right! I'm me, nothing more, nothing less! I'm me. I want to be me! I want to be here! And it's okay for me to be here! -- Shinji Ikari, Neon Genesis Evangelion
Yes, I know. You thought it would be something about Asuka. You're such idiots.

Karex_Usyrion
Adam
Age: 46
Posts: 77
Joined: Feb 19, 2012
Location: california
Gender: Male

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Karex_Usyrion » Thu Mar 01, 2012 9:34 pm

12.)
Why were 12 Mass Production Evas supposed to be built for Seele’s plan to work even though their plan succeeded with only 9?


SEELE has several scenarios which allow instrumentality to be brought about: if any one scenario is compromised, they can turn to the next. All the scenarios have in common that they are performed via highly ritualistic magic from the left hand path, that is, they are based on the Qliphoth. This in turn has strict numerology requirements. The 12 MP Evas plus Unit 01 were part of a viable scenario that can be described as the ascension of Samael via the Daath circuit where each of the MP Evas represents each of the 12 wings of Samael (the devil) and Unit 01 represents an extra wing to complete 12 + 1 = 13 wings of Elohim Tzabaoth (God) . The scenario that SEELE actually realized was with 9 MP Evas each symbolic for the Sephiroth Keter, Chokmah, Binah, Chesed, Geburah, Netzach, Hod, Yesod and Malkuth + Unit 01 in Tiphareth (Tetragrammaton Eloah Va Daath) = the 10 Sephiroth in the Four Worlds externalized as the Tree of Life. The theory of why this one scenario from among further scenarios which would have been viable as well is a whole different question.
20 years living the Evangelion_Lifestyle

Rightstated
Embryo
User avatar
Age: 30
Posts: 16
Joined: Feb 23, 2012
Location: Pennsylvania
Gender: Male

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Rightstated » Mon Mar 05, 2012 12:17 am

View Original PostKarex_Usyrion wrote:SEELE has several scenarios which allow instrumentality to be brought about: if any one scenario is compromised, they can turn to the next. All the scenarios have in common that they are performed via highly ritualistic magic from the left hand path, that is, they are based on the Qliphoth. This in turn has strict numerology requirements. The 12 MP Evas plus Unit 01 were part of a viable scenario that can be described as the ascension of Samael via the Daath circuit where each of the MP Evas represents each of the 12 wings of Samael (the devil) and Unit 01 represents an extra wing to complete 12 + 1 = 13 wings of Elohim Tzabaoth (God) . The scenario that SEELE actually realized was with 9 MP Evas each symbolic for the Sephiroth Keter, Chokmah, Binah, Chesed, Geburah, Netzach, Hod, Yesod and Malkuth + Unit 01 in Tiphareth (Tetragrammaton Eloah Va Daath) = the 10 Sephiroth in the Four Worlds externalized as the Tree of Life. The theory of why this one scenario from among further scenarios which would have been viable as well is a whole different question.




Holy crap. I'm not sure if you have been holding that information inside your head, or have just recently happened upon it, but that is something, haha. That was an answer I was looking for. Now whether or not that was intentionally made that way in the series, people could say is debatable, but if what you said is true, that is a perfect answer for me to reason with that question, ha. Thanks.

And may I ask you where you might have found this information? Its not that I doubt you, I just would be interested in possibly learning more.

KingXanaduu
DNA Donor
DNA Donor
User avatar
Posts: 2619
Joined: Sep 12, 2011
Gender: Male

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby KingXanaduu » Mon Mar 05, 2012 12:29 am

View Original PostKarex_Usyrion wrote:SEELE has several scenarios which allow instrumentality to be brought about: if any one scenario is compromised, they can turn to the next. All the scenarios have in common that they are performed via highly ritualistic magic from the left hand path, that is, they are based on the Qliphoth. This in turn has strict numerology requirements. The 12 MP Evas plus Unit 01 were part of a viable scenario that can be described as the ascension of Samael via the Daath circuit where each of the MP Evas represents each of the 12 wings of Samael (the devil) and Unit 01 represents an extra wing to complete 12 + 1 = 13 wings of Elohim Tzabaoth (God) . The scenario that SEELE actually realized was with 9 MP Evas each symbolic for the Sephiroth Keter, Chokmah, Binah, Chesed, Geburah, Netzach, Hod, Yesod and Malkuth + Unit 01 in Tiphareth (Tetragrammaton Eloah Va Daath) = the 10 Sephiroth in the Four Worlds externalized as the Tree of Life. The theory of why this one scenario from among further scenarios which would have been viable as well is a whole different question.


Don't know if this has been done to death before, but do you have the source for that 12 MP Eva/ Samael scenario? This is the first time I'm hearing about this. I understood the concept of having the 9 MP units form and inverted Tree of Life to symbolically show that man has gone above God, but this "Angel of Death" scenario is new to me.
"You're na�ve, Cecil. Even knowing betrayal and despair, you would depend on the whims of others?" - Golbez
---------------------------------------
Sephiroth: "Do you miss the Light?"
Golbez: "Hmph...I merely have duties to fulfill."
Sephiroth: "Too close to the brightness, and you may get scorched."
Golbz:.............
Golbez: Your loss can strengthen you.

"NGE Shinji is broken, Manga Shinji is an asshole, Rebuild Shinji is an idiot. Which is best? Uh, can I get some other options? All of these really suck." -Bagheera


Return to “Evangelion TV Series + EoE Discussion”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 7 guests