"Anno intended Rei to be creepy"

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Re: Be careful what you tang for... B)

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Postby child of Lilith » Fri Feb 24, 2012 1:23 am

^You're going to have to provide some evidence for this claim, because I'm drawing a blank.

View Original PostAlaska Slim wrote:Her breasts would be non-existent, and her complexion rather homely, throwing in cotton-candy blue hair.

Now would you like to meet her? :heehee:
Yes. As long as she's still Rei her looks aren't important.
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Re: Be careful what you tang for... B)

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Postby Monk Ed » Fri Feb 24, 2012 2:09 am

View Original PostAlaska Slim wrote:Her breasts would be non-existent, and her complexion rather homely, throwing in cotton-candy blue hair.

Seems pretty arbitrary to declare that "if she were real" she would not have this or that feature.
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Re: Be careful what you tang for... B)

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Postby Alaska Slim » Fri Feb 24, 2012 2:21 am

View Original PostMonk Ed wrote:Seems pretty arbitrary to declare that "if she were real" she would not have this or that feature.


Not at all, she doesn't wear make-up, she doesn't do anything to treat or maintain her complexion, and anime girl bodies are stylized, to say the least.

To accurately reflect the cross-section of girls her age, it'd be just as I said.

Considering how little she does to maintain cleanliness in her apartment, it be fair to say she'd also have pimples. The build up of oils would be inevitable.

As such, in real life, she'd be even more creepy to behold, not less. Not simply because she would have pimples, but how poor a state she would truly be in if she lived like that.
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Postby Mr. Tines » Fri Feb 24, 2012 2:45 am

While there is a word for that sort of thing which is almost, but not quite human, that word being monster, it's not clear whether Rei would trigger that, or whether she'd just be that punky fujoshi girl sitting in the MC seat. Funky hair colours don't trigger any particular reaction out of the uncanny valley -- after you've seen, randomly on the street, a number of women clearly in their 50s with Utena-pink hair, it even ceases to be cause for remark.

View Original PostAlaska Slim wrote:Her breasts would be non-existent, and her complexion rather homely, throwing in cotton-candy blue hair.
So, like a Japanese cosplayer; including the snaggleteeth, no doubt. Not seeing the problem here.

View Original PostAzathoth wrote:I'm kind of surprised no one has mentioned yet that she's implied to reek of blood.
Probably because no-one has made that connection from the data -- I'm not sure which reference you are making here. Are you referring to the "smells like Ayanami" in ep 14? By that reasoning, Shinji reeks of blood as well, since Rei makes the converse remark of EVA-01's LCL.
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Re: Be careful what you tang for... B)

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Postby Monk Ed » Fri Feb 24, 2012 3:18 am

View Original PostAlaska Slim wrote:Not at all, she doesn't wear make-up, she doesn't do anything to treat or maintain her complexion, and anime girl bodies are stylized, to say the least.

To accurately reflect the cross-section of girls her age, it'd be just as I said.

Considering how little she does to maintain cleanliness in her apartment, it be fair to say she'd also have pimples. The build up of oils would be inevitable.

As such, in real life, she'd be even more creepy to behold, not less. Not simply because she would have pimples, but how poor a state she would truly be in if she lived like that.

For all we know she's been ordered to take care of her appearance. I could totally see Gendo seeing to that, to keep his precious little doll all nice and pretty. Secondly, maybe some of the infinite meds she takes relate to skin-care. Thirdly, consider her diet, and how little we know of her physiology -- a lack of the same degree of oils as most people would not be out of place. Fourthly, she sees a doctor (Ritsuko) on a very regular basis, one-on-one, and who knows what kinds of cleansing processes she's involved in with all that LCL bathing stuff and just the kinds of things all Nerv pilots seem to be involved in that require deep cleansing of their bodies (as in the Ireul episode).

She is in fact beautiful in the series, enough to be lusted after on some level by Touji and Kensuke given the way they talk about her to Shinji that first time. "If she were real", why doesn't the fact that she has breasts and lacks pimples transfer over? They could be entirely justified, and maybe the justifications would transfer over, or the lack of them might change her behavior such that new justifications might arise, etc.
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Not as pictured. Bl

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Postby Alaska Slim » Fri Feb 24, 2012 3:22 am

View Original PostMr. Tines wrote:So, like a Japanese cosplayer; including the snaggleteeth, no doubt. Not seeing the problem here.

It's like those "otaku prettyboys" who still, like otaku, lock themselves up in dark, dank, filthy places, eating snack foods all day, and who yet still look like they could swoo a young maiden's heart with a mere gesture.

Or the young lad, condemned as a slave, who works through the grime and back-breaking work at a desperate pace, and still manages to come out of it with great looking and quite clearly gelled hair.


Even your cospalyer is likely an indulgence of some sort, they applied make-up, or live in somewhat tolerable conditions day-in-day out and get some time in the sun. Rei is none of those things, and her looks, RL, would reflect accordingly.

She would be quite sullied indeed.
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Re: Be careful what you tang for... B)

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Postby child of Lilith » Fri Feb 24, 2012 3:26 am

View Original PostAlaska Slim wrote:Not at all, she doesn't wear make-up, she doesn't do anything to treat or maintain her complexion, and anime girl bodies are stylized, to say the least.

To accurately reflect the cross-section of girls her age, it'd be just as I said.
True enough.

Considering how little she does to maintain cleanliness in her apartment, it be fair to say she'd also have pimples. The build up of oils would be inevitable.

As such, in real life, she'd be even more creepy to behold, not less. Not simply because she would have pimples, but how poor a state she would truly be in if she lived like that.
How she treats her apartment and how she treats herself are two different things. She doesn't care about cleaning her apartment, but there's no indication she feels the same way about herself. And it's entirely possible to get pimples no matter how 'clean' you are, Alaska Slim.

View Original PostMr. Tines wrote:While there is a word for that sort of thing which is almost, but not quite human, that word being monster, it's not clear whether Rei would trigger that, or whether she'd just be that punky fujoshi girl sitting in the MC seat. Funky hair colours don't trigger any particular reaction out of the uncanny valley -- after you've seen, randomly on the street, a number of women clearly in their 50s with Utena-pink hair, it even ceases to be cause for remark.
I doubt she'd be viewed as a monster. Her true differences from what most people would consider normal aren't visible. Her alien nature only coming to light for those few people who would try to get close to her.
Last edited by child of Lilith on Fri Feb 24, 2012 3:40 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Monk Ed » Fri Feb 24, 2012 3:36 am

View Original PostAlaska Slim wrote:It's like those "otaku prettyboys" who still, like otaku, lock themselves up in dark, dank, filthy places, eating snack foods all day, and who yet still look like they could swoo a young maiden's heart with a mere gesture.

This is going to sound crazy, but I actually know one, and he does. He's more otaku than me -- he collects figurines and has anime and video game pictures on his walls. He is in fact exactly what you describe here. And I have no idea how he does it. He eats junk food yet stays trim, and he's a handsome fellow, and he even has a really hot girlfriend too (whom I assumed was a bimbo at first sight but it turns out she's a Masters in Chemistry who now makes more money than he does as a software engineer). She, too, is a gamer and anime fan.

It all sounds so bizarre but when you actually get to know them (as I have) it all still somehow comes together and makes sense.

So I would not be so quick to assume that Rei, "if she were real", would conform so readily to a stereotype. Real people and their lives and the way their habits (most of which are unseen by others) and genes and everything all come together to define who they are are more complex and detailed than that.
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Re: Be careful what you tang for... B)

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Postby Alaska Slim » Fri Feb 24, 2012 4:07 am

View Original Postchild of Lilith wrote:How she treats her apartment and how she treats herself are two different things..

Not really, she's shown to be rather indifferent to both, and the reason for it is the same; she doesn't care for this dreadfully silly thing called "life".


@Monk Ed: I maintain what I've said, it's not a matter of simply staying thin, and part of the difference between your friend and her, is that she's in the middle of puberty.

Perhaps your friend has found a way to do the least to maintain a status quo, who knows? But the point is, she does nothing, she barely eats, is chronically sick, and her body is quite literally one to fall apart on her. The most you can say is that she showers, other than that, there's nothing to suggest a girl in her condition would be pretty in any other sense than the depressingly cute cancer patients.
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Postby child of Lilith » Fri Feb 24, 2012 4:34 am

View Original PostAlaska Slim wrote:Not really, she's shown to be rather indifferent to both, and the reason for it is the same; she doesn't care for this dreadfully silly thing called "life".
I disagree with the former but the latter is spot on. But unlike most people Rei's indifference towards life is justified. Hard to care when your very existence is a lie.
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Postby Bagheera » Fri Feb 24, 2012 6:27 am

View Original PostAzathoth wrote:I'm kind of surprised no one has mentioned yet that she's implied to reek of blood.


I was implying that with the bad hygiene and the always wearing bandages bit, yeah.

View Original Postchild of Lilith wrote:I disagree with the former but the latter is spot on. But unlike most people Rei's indifference towards life is justified. Hard to care when your very existence is a lie.


I think you're underestimating just how creepy that'd be in real life.

And you'd seriously want to meet and get to know someone who doesn't care about herself or you, or anything you find interesting? I think you'd be in for a serious disappointment if so.
Last edited by Bagheera on Sat Feb 25, 2012 10:25 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Postby EvangelionFan » Fri Feb 24, 2012 7:25 am

So I asked Rei out on a date the other day, and she said yes, and so last night we went out to this really nice restaurant and-

SPOILER: Show
Image
Image



OHHHHHH GOD
GOD



Gaaahassgiyfdggg :spew:


UAAAAAHHHHHHH
GOD
...WHY


aaauhghgghgaaugghgh


:boohoo: :spout:


In all seriousness - I do not believe a human created from PVM is likely to have pimples, and I believe she has to have acceptable hygiene for her to be allowed to attend school and live alone as she does.
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Re: Be careful what you tang for... B)

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Postby Stryker » Fri Feb 24, 2012 9:45 am

edit: didn't read anything that followed that statement.

I love how everyone ignored my primary post.

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Re: Be careful what you tang for... B)

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Postby Mr. Tines » Fri Feb 24, 2012 1:42 pm

View Original PostStryker wrote:I love how everyone ignored my primary post.
If I could find one of the posts where Anno's original intent that she be creepy was mentioned, I would have linked it. I would have hoped also that a citation might have been provided by now.

View Original PostBagheera wrote:bad hygiene
Showering unprompted as she was when Shinji came to deliver her her new ID card?

She may have Misato's attitude to housework (but with less -- albeit also less savoury -- litter around the place), but self-maintenance seems to be just part of her rituals.
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Postby Bagheera » Fri Feb 24, 2012 3:18 pm

View Original PostMr. Tines wrote:Showering unprompted as she was when Shinji came to deliver her her new ID card?


Necessary, but not sufficient.

She may have Misato's attitude to housework (but with less -- albeit also less savoury -- litter around the place), but self-maintenance seems to be just part of her rituals.


Up to a point at least.
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Postby Sailor Star Dust » Sat Feb 25, 2012 3:03 am

View Original PostAzathoth wrote:I'm kind of surprised no one has mentioned yet that she's implied to reek of blood.


Are you thinking of Sadamoto's "Rei smells like a hospital, that sterile, clean smell" quote from that Light from the Darkness (or whatever the name was) pre-NGE special?
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Postby Hyper Shinchan » Sat Feb 25, 2012 3:40 am

View Original Postchild of Lilith wrote:Unfortunately for Anno, most people apparently can't see the forest for the trees.

Actually almost every day I laugh at his foolishness.
View Original Postchild of Lilith wrote:But that's fine. It's kind of nice being one of the very few people who actually get her.

Can we really understand fictional characters? In the end everyone probably believes that he/she's getting her, we ended up building our own vision of her.
View Original PostAlaska Slim wrote:Considering how little she does to maintain cleanliness in her apartment, it be fair to say she'd also have pimples. The build up of oils would be inevitable.

A neglected room doesn't necessarily mean that she doesn't take care of her personal hygiene, after all she was taking a shower when Shinji goes to her apartment and she's apparently quite fond of water.
View Original PostBagheera wrote:Necessary, but not sufficient.

The other characters would hardly find her attractive if she were neglecting her hygiene like you guys are implying.

Anyway this "if she were real" argument really doesn't seem to make a lot of sense to me, Asuka would probably be a monster covering her freckles under tons of make-up "if she were real", which would be even more disturbing if you were living with her like Shinji and you happened to see her without make-up, but then what? Isn't it exactly because they're not realistic that we're attracted by anime designs?
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Postby child of Lilith » Sat Feb 25, 2012 5:05 am

View Original PostBagheera wrote:I think you're underestimating just how creepy that'd be in real life.
Not likely. I've met people a little like her in the past and I thoroughly enjoyed their company. One of which I was best friends with for many years.

And you're serious want to meet and get to know someone who doesn't care about herself or you, or anything you find interesting? I think you'd be in for a serious disappointment if so.
I most definitely would. Her indifference would only spur me on into wanting to know more about her. Nothing interest me more then uniqueness. And Rei has that in abundance.

You know you really should try stepping out of your comfort zone, Bagheera. Just because someone's radically different from what society finds acceptable doesn't automatically make them bad or not worth knowing. Variety is the spice of life after all. Well, at least it is for me.

View Original PostHyper Shinchan wrote:Can we really understand fictional characters? In the end everyone probably believes that he/she's getting her, we ended up building our own vision of her.
You can't really ever fully understand anyone, real or otherwise.

And this whole hygiene debate is pointless. If Rei were real she'd be made of PWM so most hygiene issue would go right out the window. Not to mention her unearthly good looks would be a part of that as well.
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Postby Bagheera » Sat Feb 25, 2012 10:35 am

View Original Postchild of Lilith wrote:Not likely. I've met people a little like her in the past and I thoroughly enjoyed their company. One of which I was best friends with for many years.


That person was presumably born of human parents, and likewise didn't know she could be replaced thanks to a tank full of clones under a secret military base downtown. Said person also probably didn't have within her the damaged soul of the ancient progenitor of human life.

Rei isn't like other people. Comparing her to people who are mere introverts, or even people who are fully schizoid, is extremely misleading.

You know you really should try stepping out of your comfort zone, Bagheera.


You should stop making assumptions about my character. There's a line for polite discussion here, and you're stepping over it. Step back.

Just because someone's radically different from what society finds acceptable doesn't automatically make them bad or not worth knowing. Variety is the spice of life after all. Well, at least it is for me.


The question is not "is she worth knowing." The question is "is it possible to know her, and would she be even remotely inclined to let you try?" If Rei were an ordinary person those questions might be answered in the affirmative, but with the Rei in the show the answers are most certainly "no". The only reason Shinji managed it is because of his connections with Gendo and Eva.

And this whole hygiene debate is pointless. If Rei were real she'd be made of PWM so most hygiene issue would go right out the window. Not to mention her unearthly good looks would be a part of that as well.


There is no evidence whatsoever that Rei is made of PWM.
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People's deaths are to be mourned. The ability to save people should be celebrated. Life itself should be exalted. -- Volken Macmani, Tatakau Shisho: The Book of Bantorra
I hate myself. But maybe I can learn to love myself. Maybe it's okay for me to be here! That's right! I'm me, nothing more, nothing less! I'm me. I want to be me! I want to be here! And it's okay for me to be here! -- Shinji Ikari, Neon Genesis Evangelion
Yes, I know. You thought it would be something about Asuka. You're such idiots.

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Postby Reichu » Sat Feb 25, 2012 10:46 am

View Original PostBagheera wrote:There is no evidence whatsoever that Rei is made of PWM.

There is evidence (search "Rei PWM"), so it would probably be fairer for you to say, "I don't buy into the argument that Rei is made of PWM".
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