SPOILER: Show
>J says (11:10 PM)
who do you think is the main character of evangelion?
>Laven says (11:11 PM)
Shinji
>J says (11:11 PM)
why
>Laven says (11:11 PM)
why?
because he is the main protagonist
>J says (11:11 PM)
haven't you seen this pic
look who's in the seat
pretty sure Rei is the main character
>Laven says (11:11 PM)
what?
>J says (11:12 PM)
doesn't the main character always sit in that seat
>Laven says (11:12 PM)
like you mean in other shows
>J says (11:12 PM)
doesn't Rei have the most development
>Laven says (11:12 PM)
lol
>J says (11:12 PM)
like she develops into a giant monster
Shinji doesn't even get taller
>Laven says (11:13 PM)
lololol
yes
you got me
>J says (11:13 PM)
so Rei is the mc of evangelion
but who's the main villian
>Laven says (11:14 PM)
what trope are we basing this decision off of?
>J says (11:14 PM)
well what does the villian try to do
like defeat the main character or something
who tries to defeat Rei
>Laven says (11:14 PM)
Gendou sort of
>Laven says (11:15 PM)
Unit 01
Shinjis mom
>J says (11:15 PM)
no man
>Laven says (11:15 PM)
she develops
from a human into a giant robot
>J says (11:15 PM)
who literally tries to
and succeeds
>Laven says (11:15 PM)
defeat?
I guess Shinji
>J says (11:15 PM)
no man
who strangles her to DEATH
>J says (11:16 PM)
who invented a computer that "accidentally" caught a virus that tried to kill rei2
who murdered rei1
who worked with gendo aka someone who opposed Rei in the end
>Laven says (11:17 PM)
So Akagi is the villian
she was actually a bad person though in the show
>J says (11:17 PM)
her mom.
>Laven says (11:17 PM)
the mom?
No, Ritsuko Akagi
>J says (11:17 PM)
when did she strangle Rei
>Laven says (11:17 PM)
Oh wait, no the mom yeah
>J says (11:18 PM)
yeah see it all comes together
>Laven says (11:18 PM)
Well, it doesn't come more together
>J says (11:18 PM)
what do you mean
we boiled it down
>Laven says (11:19 PM)
you are still using the confines of the story to tell a new interpretation
so it was always so
you just changed who we call the mc and mv
>J says (11:19 PM)
but now we know the real story
instead of having the wrong idea
focusing on the wrong guy
>Laven says (11:19 PM)
the events were unfolded for us
its up to us how we see them
>J says (11:20 PM)
gotta pay closer attention to Rei vs akagi
when you think about it
Rei is just yui
and akagi is obviously on gendo's side
so it's yui v gendo
wife v husband
she wanted to become a robot
he trapped her soul in the body of a child
isn't it more clear who the good and bad guys are
>Laven says (11:21 PM)
more clear?
That stuff was present all long
along*
>J says (11:22 PM)
yeah but I bet you thought gendo was a good guy
>Laven says (11:22 PM)
that was always the most fascinating part imo
lolol
no way
Gendou was bad
>J says (11:23 PM)
but now you know he's bad because he opposes yui
instead of thinking he's bad because he's mean to Shinji
aka some side character
>Laven says (11:23 PM)
I can't tell if you are joking around or not
>J says (11:24 PM)
well I can't tell if you're joking or not
>Laven says (11:24 PM)
Im not joking
>J says (11:24 PM)
neither am I
>Laven says (11:24 PM)
ok, so Shinji isn't a side charecter
>J says (11:24 PM)
well he's not a main character
>Laven says (11:24 PM)
yeah he is
>J says (11:24 PM)
how is he
he's not involved with the main part of the story
>Laven says (11:25 PM)
the universe can exist however it does in that world
>J says (11:25 PM)
he just goes with the flow
>Laven says (11:25 PM)
but we are shown Shinji to be the main charecter
and it is ultimatley up to him for humanity to survive
>J says (11:25 PM)
just because it shows him the most it doesn't mean he's the main character
>Laven says (11:25 PM)
yes it does
>J says (11:26 PM)
no
>Laven says (11:26 PM)
as a work of fiction
it does
>J says (11:26 PM)
that's not how it works
just because he gets the most screentime even though he's unimportant
>Laven says (11:26 PM)
screen time, internal dialog, the key to the show
>J says (11:27 PM)
that's all a distraction
a red herring, a cinema trick
>Laven says (11:27 PM)
Its not that deep
>J says (11:27 PM)
are you implying evangelion isn't deep
>Laven says (11:27 PM)
it is as deep as people make it
it wasn't originally that deep
>J says (11:28 PM)
are you joking around again
so you're saying that it isn't meant to be any deeper than Shinji vs angels
>Laven says (11:28 PM)
Look, its my favorite thing, but its still an anime made by a crazy guy
that ran out of money
>J says (11:29 PM)
does money dictate his ideas
just because there was no animation doesn't change the story
>Laven says (11:29 PM)
I see the point you are getting at
but I disagree
and assert that Shinji, while I would entertain the argument that he may not be the mainest charecter
is still a main charecter
and, its some Japanese cartoon
we're the ones making it deep
the story can have many complexities and plot elements, but its not really a philosophically life changing work of art.
>J says (11:31 PM)
did I say it was
>Laven says (11:32 PM)
aren't you taking that stance that it is
>J says (11:32 PM)
I just pointed out that I figured out who the main character is
you know how you keep thinking of something
I was like aha
I understand it a little more now
>Laven says (11:33 PM)
idk
go post your theory on evageeks
>J says (11:33 PM)
make me
>Laven says (11:33 PM)
or don't, I don't care
Im just curious what they would say
>J says (11:34 PM)
what are they like
do they think Shinji is the main character too
>Laven says (11:34 PM)
no, its just a forum of eva scholars
>J says (11:35 PM)
so you're saying it's not deep at all but there's a forum of scholars
are they all fools
>Laven says (11:37 PM)
Its like a painting
Starry night is some dumb swirly bullshit
but, its up to other people to determine its artistic value and deepness
Anno had a literary story told through animation
that we can choose to analyze the ins and outs
which I like to do
or, accept it at face value
>J says (11:39 PM)
how do you even know what the face value is
who gets to decide what that is
>Laven says (11:40 PM)
Thats the question
>J says (11:40 PM)
so there's only the one option
>Laven says (11:40 PM)
Like I said, its up to the viewer
you get out of it what you take
I don't buy your theory
>J says (11:41 PM)
it's not my theory you're just ignoring evidence
>Laven says (11:41 PM)
Its a theory unless anno says "yeah, thats where I was going with that"
its all speculation
its like trying to solve a murder with no body to ever find
>J says (11:42 PM)
I wonder if he ever said who the main character is
or if he said it was Rei
>Laven says (11:42 PM)
There can be more than one main character
>J says (11:42 PM)
ok yeah
all 3 are the main characters to varying degrees
but if you had to pick one main character
that makes the story happen
>Laven says (11:43 PM)
you can't, its not one dimentional
>J says (11:43 PM)
I didn't say it was
I'm just saying Rei is the most important main character
he's a main character to a degree
like it's told from his point of view mostly
>Laven says (11:45 PM)
Thats not what you started with
and I even said
I would entertain the idea of him not being the mainest
>J says (11:45 PM)
look this show is so deep I don't understand it all
sorry if I haven't been watching it for years and years
I JUST NOW figured out who the main character is
if we want to say there are multiple main characters Shinji can be one
>Laven says (11:46 PM)
he has to be one
his role in the outcome of things is too great
>J says (11:46 PM)
that's pretty true I guess
but he's still below a lot of people
well not Asuka
what does she even do
>Laven says (11:47 PM)
she goes with Shinji
>J says (11:47 PM)
goes where
>Laven says (11:48 PM)
like, relationship wise
or like, on the organizational chart of feelings
they have their thing
>J says (11:48 PM)
when
pretty sure that role would be kaoru
>J says (11:49 PM)
Asuka and Shinji hated each other
>Laven says (11:49 PM)
it was more dynamic
>J says (11:49 PM)
didn't the whole series end with him strangling her and she saying 'you make me sick'
>Laven says (11:49 PM)
yeah, it ended on hate
but he visits her in the hospital
and whacks it there
>J says (11:49 PM)
like a creepy guy
>J says (11:50 PM)
doesn't affect the plot
or even any other characters
>Laven says (11:50 PM)
I guess she only matters because she affects Shinji
>J says (11:50 PM)
it's a nice side story yeah
>Laven says (11:50 PM)
otherwise, yeah
she is irrelevant
>J says (11:50 PM)
it tells the tale of her on the side
>J says (11:51 PM)
and Shinji's view of things
>Laven says (11:51 PM)
yeah
>J says (11:51 PM)
but the main character obvious has to be Rei then
shiji is a framing device
>Laven says (11:51 PM)
I dunno if I can accept that
>Laven says (11:52 PM)
But I kind of can
>J says (11:52 PM)
just because he's the focus doesn't mean he has to be the main character
>Laven says (11:52 PM)
I dunno, the tale is about Shinji
>J says (11:52 PM)
the tale is about Rei
viewed through Shinji
it only shows like a week of his life
>Laven says (11:53 PM)
no, Rei is hella important to the setting and story, but it ends up being Shinji doing everything at the end
its about him
and his mind
>J says (11:53 PM)
it's told via his mind
>Laven says (11:53 PM)
He
is
instrumentality
>J says (11:54 PM)
take away the viewpoint and just imagine describing what happens
throughout the series
what does Shinji do
it starts and ends with Rei
>Laven says (11:54 PM)
it doesn't end with Rei
it ends with Shinji
and it starts with angels
like adam
>J says (11:54 PM)
is Rei not an angel
>Laven says (11:55 PM)
and then yui + 01 becomes important
Rei is from lilith
so lilith is important
>J says (11:55 PM)
Rei is lillith and yui
by definition
so she is the most important
I guess yeah it does start with the angels
but the angels aren't really the main character
but one angel personified is
>Laven says (11:56 PM)
I didn't say they were main
you said take away Shinji
so I'm imagining the story
>J says (11:56 PM)
yeah you're right
it does start with angels
and end with Rei taking action
>Laven says (11:56 PM)
no, it ends with Shinji breaking instrumentality
Where is Rei at the end
>J says (11:57 PM)
right behind him I think
Laven says (11:57 PM)
nope
>J says (11:57 PM)
isn't her head there
well I guess she isn't at the last second
>Laven says (11:58 PM)
its severed
I remeber the head
but the LCL is whats important
>J says (11:58 PM)
because once again it's from Shinji the bystander's pov
>Laven says (12:01 AM)
I don't know if Shinji was able to break instrumentality only,
like if it was his role to reset the earth, or if his proximity to the situation and Rei allowed him to come back first like he does
>J says (12:01 AM)
pretty sure it was Rei being nice to him
sometimes the main character can't do it all
>Laven says (12:01 AM)
No, he works at it
>J says (12:01 AM)
it's like goku gathering energy for the spirit bomb
>Laven says (12:02 AM)
not like that
>J says (12:02 AM)
Rei initiated instrumentality and was like go Shinji
tag in
>Laven says (12:02 AM)
she didn't, gendou did
Ok, so Ill buy all of this in the context of end of eva
>Laven says (12:03 AM)
but the TV series is about Shinji and his life, regardless of the more important things going on around him
so that makes him a main character in terms of the literary story
>J says (12:03 AM)
it makes him the focus
you can be the focus and not be the main character
>Laven says (12:04 AM)
I don't think that applies here
the show starts and ends with Shinji
they clap for him at the end
>J says (12:04 AM)
it's very clever
the story was about the progression of Rei
but told from the point of view of a different person
>Laven says (12:05 AM)
how do you explain the end of the TV then
>J says (12:05 AM)
it's from his pov but that doesn't change the events
>Laven says (12:05 AM)
no, its equally about the progression on Shinji
>J says (12:05 AM)
where does he progress
>Laven says (12:05 AM)
explain to me the events of the last 2 TV episodes
where is Rei
who claps for Rei
>J says (12:06 AM)
lol exactly
that's why it's tricky
it doesn't matter how many people clap
>Laven says (12:06 AM)
its a trick
>J says (12:06 AM)
Rei is the main character
you could have a movie theater full of americans clapping as hard as they can for Shinji
>Laven says (12:06 AM)
the show is about Shinji and his struggles as well as its about Rei
how does that equate
its in the show
>J says (12:06 AM)
ok it's about Shinji too
but he's not the main character
>Laven says (12:07 AM)
I disagree
>J says (12:07 AM)
he's just a framing device
>Laven says (12:07 AM)
I disagree
he isn't just a framing device
>J says (12:07 AM)
it's an interesting way to tell a story about a clone of an angel
>Laven says (12:07 AM)
he is a framing device
but more
>J says (12:08 AM)
he doesn't actually do anything important
you can't just change the main character of events by changing the focus
Rei does all the important stuff and sits in that seat
>Laven says (12:08 AM)
So like, Huck Fin and Tom Sawyer both have books about them
Is Huck Fin not the main charecter of his book, even though they meet together in the same continuity
>J says (12:09 AM)
idk how those books go but whoever is the most important character is the main one
it's like sherlock holmes
>J says (12:10 AM)
it's told from watson's pov
>Laven says (12:10 AM)
thats not the same
its almost the same
>J says (12:10 AM)
but obviously sherlock is the mover and shaker
>Laven says (12:10 AM)
What if the book was about Watson
>J says (12:10 AM)
it is
it's constantly from his pov
>Laven says (12:10 AM)
Eva isn't first person from the pov of Shinji
I mean, a book about watson
and all of his doings
>J says (12:11 AM)
it is all of his doings
>Laven says (12:11 AM)
and it mentions sherlock a few times
>J says (12:11 AM)
evangelion is the same way
>Laven says (12:11 AM)
but its focused on watson constantly
then of that story, watson is the main charecter
and he has a friend who is a great detective
the world event timeline of eva is one thing
>J says (12:12 AM)
but the story exists for Rei
>Laven says (12:12 AM)
but the story, told about Shinji form start to finish
makes Shinji the main charecter
>J says (12:12 AM)
Shinji interacts with the main character
>Laven says (12:13 AM)
nope
>J says (12:13 AM)
the story doesn't live and die by Shinji
>Laven says (12:13 AM)
the story does
the world/universe can do what it wants
like the hobbit
Bilbo isn't the main charecter in lord of the rings
>Laven says (12:14 AM)
but he is in The Hobbit
>J says (12:14 AM)
well isn't that a different time
>Laven says (12:14 AM)
different time?
>J says (12:14 AM)
i never read lotr
is it simultaneously happening with the hobbit
>Laven says (12:14 AM)
its a continuity
many of the charecters are alive during both stories
but time passes
>J says (12:15 AM)
yeah that's what I thought
>Laven says (12:15 AM)
But Gandolf isn't the main charecter in either
>J says (12:16 AM)
I couldn't tell you who the main character is
>Laven says (12:16 AM)
though you can't have the story without him
idk then
>J says (12:16 AM)
in the time that NGE happens over, Rei is the main character
>Laven says (12:16 AM)
obviously you see it this way and I can't convince you
>J says (12:17 AM)
if you pick like a day where Rei is sleeping and Shinji fights a bully, he's the main character
>Laven says (12:17 AM)
you don't get to pick a day
>J says (12:17 AM)
I know
>Laven says (12:17 AM)
its the story as a whole
>J says (12:17 AM)
and the main character over that whole story
is Rei
it's a tale of her
>Laven says (12:19 AM)
idk man, Shinji is the main protagonist of the story
>J says (12:19 AM)
Shinji is the main visual focus of the story
Rei is the central character
>Laven says (12:20 AM)
"Rei Ayanami is a fictional character from the Neon Genesis Evangelion franchise.
"Shinji Ikari is the Third Child, the main protagonist of the series and the designated pilot of Evangelion Unit-01."
>J says (12:20 AM)
yeah the third child
>Laven says (12:20 AM)
yeah the main protag
>J says (12:20 AM)
how is he a protagonist
>Laven says (12:21 AM)
its defined right there
and seriously, I just explained why
>J says (12:21 AM)
just because his robot is #1
>Laven says (12:21 AM)
yep
>J says (12:21 AM)
Rei is the main character if there was ever one
Shinji is the framing device to make it interesting
so many stories are told from the main character's pov
Shinji relates the world to the audience
he's like our source to the story in which Rei is the main character
think about this
if Shinji was the main character
why didn't fender make a guitar with him on it
I have another question for you
who is the main character of haruhi
isn't it the same deal?
>Laven says (12:25 AM)
I don't feel like talking about it
>J says (12:25 AM)
just answer 1 more
I'm really curious
>Laven says (12:25 AM)
I haven't seem haruhi enough times to make an argument about it
>J says (12:26 AM)
well me neither
just a gut feeling
not an argument
is it the focus kyon or the mover & shaker haruhi?
>Laven says (12:26 AM)
I would think that its Haruhi
>J says (12:26 AM)
yeah
>Laven says (12:27 AM)
her name is on the title
and she is doing stuff with them equally
and is the key
the story is about her
>J says (12:27 AM)
exactly exactly
>Laven says (12:27 AM)
kyon is just first person explaining the events.
but
Shinji isn't just exmplaining the events
he is doing his thing and runs into Rei and then keeps doing his own thing
>J says (12:29 AM)
exactamundo
>Laven says (12:29 AM)
right
thats why he is a protag and not a frame
because he has his own story apart from what Rei is up to
>J says (12:30 AM)
kyon has his own story besides haruhi
>Laven says (12:30 AM)
barely
>J says (12:30 AM)
he has a house and a sister and relationships with the other characters
>Laven says (12:30 AM)
ok
Im done
>J says (12:31 AM)
it's funny how people can trick us for so long
then one day you find yourself looking at a seating chart
and the whole world gets flip turned upside down
>Laven says (12:31 AM)
for some people I guess
I am comfortable in my understanding of how the show works
who do you think is the main character of evangelion?
>Laven says (11:11 PM)
Shinji
>J says (11:11 PM)
why
>Laven says (11:11 PM)
why?
because he is the main protagonist
>J says (11:11 PM)
haven't you seen this pic
look who's in the seat
pretty sure Rei is the main character
>Laven says (11:11 PM)
what?
>J says (11:12 PM)
doesn't the main character always sit in that seat
>Laven says (11:12 PM)
like you mean in other shows
>J says (11:12 PM)
doesn't Rei have the most development
>Laven says (11:12 PM)
lol
>J says (11:12 PM)
like she develops into a giant monster
Shinji doesn't even get taller
>Laven says (11:13 PM)
lololol
yes
you got me
>J says (11:13 PM)
so Rei is the mc of evangelion
but who's the main villian
>Laven says (11:14 PM)
what trope are we basing this decision off of?
>J says (11:14 PM)
well what does the villian try to do
like defeat the main character or something
who tries to defeat Rei
>Laven says (11:14 PM)
Gendou sort of
>Laven says (11:15 PM)
Unit 01
Shinjis mom
>J says (11:15 PM)
no man
>Laven says (11:15 PM)
she develops
from a human into a giant robot
>J says (11:15 PM)
who literally tries to
and succeeds
>Laven says (11:15 PM)
defeat?
I guess Shinji
>J says (11:15 PM)
no man
who strangles her to DEATH
>J says (11:16 PM)
who invented a computer that "accidentally" caught a virus that tried to kill rei2
who murdered rei1
who worked with gendo aka someone who opposed Rei in the end
>Laven says (11:17 PM)
So Akagi is the villian
she was actually a bad person though in the show
>J says (11:17 PM)
her mom.
>Laven says (11:17 PM)
the mom?
No, Ritsuko Akagi
>J says (11:17 PM)
when did she strangle Rei
>Laven says (11:17 PM)
Oh wait, no the mom yeah
>J says (11:18 PM)
yeah see it all comes together
>Laven says (11:18 PM)
Well, it doesn't come more together
>J says (11:18 PM)
what do you mean
we boiled it down
>Laven says (11:19 PM)
you are still using the confines of the story to tell a new interpretation
so it was always so
you just changed who we call the mc and mv
>J says (11:19 PM)
but now we know the real story
instead of having the wrong idea
focusing on the wrong guy
>Laven says (11:19 PM)
the events were unfolded for us
its up to us how we see them
>J says (11:20 PM)
gotta pay closer attention to Rei vs akagi
when you think about it
Rei is just yui
and akagi is obviously on gendo's side
so it's yui v gendo
wife v husband
she wanted to become a robot
he trapped her soul in the body of a child
isn't it more clear who the good and bad guys are
>Laven says (11:21 PM)
more clear?
That stuff was present all long
along*
>J says (11:22 PM)
yeah but I bet you thought gendo was a good guy
>Laven says (11:22 PM)
that was always the most fascinating part imo
lolol
no way
Gendou was bad
>J says (11:23 PM)
but now you know he's bad because he opposes yui
instead of thinking he's bad because he's mean to Shinji
aka some side character
>Laven says (11:23 PM)
I can't tell if you are joking around or not
>J says (11:24 PM)
well I can't tell if you're joking or not
>Laven says (11:24 PM)
Im not joking
>J says (11:24 PM)
neither am I
>Laven says (11:24 PM)
ok, so Shinji isn't a side charecter
>J says (11:24 PM)
well he's not a main character
>Laven says (11:24 PM)
yeah he is
>J says (11:24 PM)
how is he
he's not involved with the main part of the story
>Laven says (11:25 PM)
the universe can exist however it does in that world
>J says (11:25 PM)
he just goes with the flow
>Laven says (11:25 PM)
but we are shown Shinji to be the main charecter
and it is ultimatley up to him for humanity to survive
>J says (11:25 PM)
just because it shows him the most it doesn't mean he's the main character
>Laven says (11:25 PM)
yes it does
>J says (11:26 PM)
no
>Laven says (11:26 PM)
as a work of fiction
it does
>J says (11:26 PM)
that's not how it works
just because he gets the most screentime even though he's unimportant
>Laven says (11:26 PM)
screen time, internal dialog, the key to the show
>J says (11:27 PM)
that's all a distraction
a red herring, a cinema trick
>Laven says (11:27 PM)
Its not that deep
>J says (11:27 PM)
are you implying evangelion isn't deep
>Laven says (11:27 PM)
it is as deep as people make it
it wasn't originally that deep
>J says (11:28 PM)
are you joking around again
so you're saying that it isn't meant to be any deeper than Shinji vs angels
>Laven says (11:28 PM)
Look, its my favorite thing, but its still an anime made by a crazy guy
that ran out of money
>J says (11:29 PM)
does money dictate his ideas
just because there was no animation doesn't change the story
>Laven says (11:29 PM)
I see the point you are getting at
but I disagree
and assert that Shinji, while I would entertain the argument that he may not be the mainest charecter
is still a main charecter
and, its some Japanese cartoon
we're the ones making it deep
the story can have many complexities and plot elements, but its not really a philosophically life changing work of art.
>J says (11:31 PM)
did I say it was
>Laven says (11:32 PM)
aren't you taking that stance that it is
>J says (11:32 PM)
I just pointed out that I figured out who the main character is
you know how you keep thinking of something
I was like aha
I understand it a little more now
>Laven says (11:33 PM)
idk
go post your theory on evageeks
>J says (11:33 PM)
make me
>Laven says (11:33 PM)
or don't, I don't care
Im just curious what they would say
>J says (11:34 PM)
what are they like
do they think Shinji is the main character too
>Laven says (11:34 PM)
no, its just a forum of eva scholars
>J says (11:35 PM)
so you're saying it's not deep at all but there's a forum of scholars
are they all fools
>Laven says (11:37 PM)
Its like a painting
Starry night is some dumb swirly bullshit
but, its up to other people to determine its artistic value and deepness
Anno had a literary story told through animation
that we can choose to analyze the ins and outs
which I like to do
or, accept it at face value
>J says (11:39 PM)
how do you even know what the face value is
who gets to decide what that is
>Laven says (11:40 PM)
Thats the question
>J says (11:40 PM)
so there's only the one option
>Laven says (11:40 PM)
Like I said, its up to the viewer
you get out of it what you take
I don't buy your theory
>J says (11:41 PM)
it's not my theory you're just ignoring evidence
>Laven says (11:41 PM)
Its a theory unless anno says "yeah, thats where I was going with that"
its all speculation
its like trying to solve a murder with no body to ever find
>J says (11:42 PM)
I wonder if he ever said who the main character is
or if he said it was Rei
>Laven says (11:42 PM)
There can be more than one main character
>J says (11:42 PM)
ok yeah
all 3 are the main characters to varying degrees
but if you had to pick one main character
that makes the story happen
>Laven says (11:43 PM)
you can't, its not one dimentional
>J says (11:43 PM)
I didn't say it was
I'm just saying Rei is the most important main character
he's a main character to a degree
like it's told from his point of view mostly
>Laven says (11:45 PM)
Thats not what you started with
and I even said
I would entertain the idea of him not being the mainest
>J says (11:45 PM)
look this show is so deep I don't understand it all
sorry if I haven't been watching it for years and years
I JUST NOW figured out who the main character is
if we want to say there are multiple main characters Shinji can be one
>Laven says (11:46 PM)
he has to be one
his role in the outcome of things is too great
>J says (11:46 PM)
that's pretty true I guess
but he's still below a lot of people
well not Asuka
what does she even do
>Laven says (11:47 PM)
she goes with Shinji
>J says (11:47 PM)
goes where
>Laven says (11:48 PM)
like, relationship wise
or like, on the organizational chart of feelings
they have their thing
>J says (11:48 PM)
when
pretty sure that role would be kaoru
>J says (11:49 PM)
Asuka and Shinji hated each other
>Laven says (11:49 PM)
it was more dynamic
>J says (11:49 PM)
didn't the whole series end with him strangling her and she saying 'you make me sick'
>Laven says (11:49 PM)
yeah, it ended on hate
but he visits her in the hospital
and whacks it there
>J says (11:49 PM)
like a creepy guy
>J says (11:50 PM)
doesn't affect the plot
or even any other characters
>Laven says (11:50 PM)
I guess she only matters because she affects Shinji
>J says (11:50 PM)
it's a nice side story yeah
>Laven says (11:50 PM)
otherwise, yeah
she is irrelevant
>J says (11:50 PM)
it tells the tale of her on the side
>J says (11:51 PM)
and Shinji's view of things
>Laven says (11:51 PM)
yeah
>J says (11:51 PM)
but the main character obvious has to be Rei then
shiji is a framing device
>Laven says (11:51 PM)
I dunno if I can accept that
>Laven says (11:52 PM)
But I kind of can
>J says (11:52 PM)
just because he's the focus doesn't mean he has to be the main character
>Laven says (11:52 PM)
I dunno, the tale is about Shinji
>J says (11:52 PM)
the tale is about Rei
viewed through Shinji
it only shows like a week of his life
>Laven says (11:53 PM)
no, Rei is hella important to the setting and story, but it ends up being Shinji doing everything at the end
its about him
and his mind
>J says (11:53 PM)
it's told via his mind
>Laven says (11:53 PM)
He
is
instrumentality
>J says (11:54 PM)
take away the viewpoint and just imagine describing what happens
throughout the series
what does Shinji do
it starts and ends with Rei
>Laven says (11:54 PM)
it doesn't end with Rei
it ends with Shinji
and it starts with angels
like adam
>J says (11:54 PM)
is Rei not an angel
>Laven says (11:55 PM)
and then yui + 01 becomes important
Rei is from lilith
so lilith is important
>J says (11:55 PM)
Rei is lillith and yui
by definition
so she is the most important
I guess yeah it does start with the angels
but the angels aren't really the main character
but one angel personified is
>Laven says (11:56 PM)
I didn't say they were main
you said take away Shinji
so I'm imagining the story
>J says (11:56 PM)
yeah you're right
it does start with angels
and end with Rei taking action
>Laven says (11:56 PM)
no, it ends with Shinji breaking instrumentality
Where is Rei at the end
>J says (11:57 PM)
right behind him I think
Laven says (11:57 PM)
nope
>J says (11:57 PM)
isn't her head there
well I guess she isn't at the last second
>Laven says (11:58 PM)
its severed
I remeber the head
but the LCL is whats important
>J says (11:58 PM)
because once again it's from Shinji the bystander's pov
>Laven says (12:01 AM)
I don't know if Shinji was able to break instrumentality only,
like if it was his role to reset the earth, or if his proximity to the situation and Rei allowed him to come back first like he does
>J says (12:01 AM)
pretty sure it was Rei being nice to him
sometimes the main character can't do it all
>Laven says (12:01 AM)
No, he works at it
>J says (12:01 AM)
it's like goku gathering energy for the spirit bomb
>Laven says (12:02 AM)
not like that
>J says (12:02 AM)
Rei initiated instrumentality and was like go Shinji
tag in
>Laven says (12:02 AM)
she didn't, gendou did
Ok, so Ill buy all of this in the context of end of eva
>Laven says (12:03 AM)
but the TV series is about Shinji and his life, regardless of the more important things going on around him
so that makes him a main character in terms of the literary story
>J says (12:03 AM)
it makes him the focus
you can be the focus and not be the main character
>Laven says (12:04 AM)
I don't think that applies here
the show starts and ends with Shinji
they clap for him at the end
>J says (12:04 AM)
it's very clever
the story was about the progression of Rei
but told from the point of view of a different person
>Laven says (12:05 AM)
how do you explain the end of the TV then
>J says (12:05 AM)
it's from his pov but that doesn't change the events
>Laven says (12:05 AM)
no, its equally about the progression on Shinji
>J says (12:05 AM)
where does he progress
>Laven says (12:05 AM)
explain to me the events of the last 2 TV episodes
where is Rei
who claps for Rei
>J says (12:06 AM)
lol exactly
that's why it's tricky
it doesn't matter how many people clap
>Laven says (12:06 AM)
its a trick
>J says (12:06 AM)
Rei is the main character
you could have a movie theater full of americans clapping as hard as they can for Shinji
>Laven says (12:06 AM)
the show is about Shinji and his struggles as well as its about Rei
how does that equate
its in the show
>J says (12:06 AM)
ok it's about Shinji too
but he's not the main character
>Laven says (12:07 AM)
I disagree
>J says (12:07 AM)
he's just a framing device
>Laven says (12:07 AM)
I disagree
he isn't just a framing device
>J says (12:07 AM)
it's an interesting way to tell a story about a clone of an angel
>Laven says (12:07 AM)
he is a framing device
but more
>J says (12:08 AM)
he doesn't actually do anything important
you can't just change the main character of events by changing the focus
Rei does all the important stuff and sits in that seat
>Laven says (12:08 AM)
So like, Huck Fin and Tom Sawyer both have books about them
Is Huck Fin not the main charecter of his book, even though they meet together in the same continuity
>J says (12:09 AM)
idk how those books go but whoever is the most important character is the main one
it's like sherlock holmes
>J says (12:10 AM)
it's told from watson's pov
>Laven says (12:10 AM)
thats not the same
its almost the same
>J says (12:10 AM)
but obviously sherlock is the mover and shaker
>Laven says (12:10 AM)
What if the book was about Watson
>J says (12:10 AM)
it is
it's constantly from his pov
>Laven says (12:10 AM)
Eva isn't first person from the pov of Shinji
I mean, a book about watson
and all of his doings
>J says (12:11 AM)
it is all of his doings
>Laven says (12:11 AM)
and it mentions sherlock a few times
>J says (12:11 AM)
evangelion is the same way
>Laven says (12:11 AM)
but its focused on watson constantly
then of that story, watson is the main charecter
and he has a friend who is a great detective
the world event timeline of eva is one thing
>J says (12:12 AM)
but the story exists for Rei
>Laven says (12:12 AM)
but the story, told about Shinji form start to finish
makes Shinji the main charecter
>J says (12:12 AM)
Shinji interacts with the main character
>Laven says (12:13 AM)
nope
>J says (12:13 AM)
the story doesn't live and die by Shinji
>Laven says (12:13 AM)
the story does
the world/universe can do what it wants
like the hobbit
Bilbo isn't the main charecter in lord of the rings
>Laven says (12:14 AM)
but he is in The Hobbit
>J says (12:14 AM)
well isn't that a different time
>Laven says (12:14 AM)
different time?
>J says (12:14 AM)
i never read lotr
is it simultaneously happening with the hobbit
>Laven says (12:14 AM)
its a continuity
many of the charecters are alive during both stories
but time passes
>J says (12:15 AM)
yeah that's what I thought
>Laven says (12:15 AM)
But Gandolf isn't the main charecter in either
>J says (12:16 AM)
I couldn't tell you who the main character is
>Laven says (12:16 AM)
though you can't have the story without him
idk then
>J says (12:16 AM)
in the time that NGE happens over, Rei is the main character
>Laven says (12:16 AM)
obviously you see it this way and I can't convince you
>J says (12:17 AM)
if you pick like a day where Rei is sleeping and Shinji fights a bully, he's the main character
>Laven says (12:17 AM)
you don't get to pick a day
>J says (12:17 AM)
I know
>Laven says (12:17 AM)
its the story as a whole
>J says (12:17 AM)
and the main character over that whole story
is Rei
it's a tale of her
>Laven says (12:19 AM)
idk man, Shinji is the main protagonist of the story
>J says (12:19 AM)
Shinji is the main visual focus of the story
Rei is the central character
>Laven says (12:20 AM)
"Rei Ayanami is a fictional character from the Neon Genesis Evangelion franchise.
"Shinji Ikari is the Third Child, the main protagonist of the series and the designated pilot of Evangelion Unit-01."
>J says (12:20 AM)
yeah the third child
>Laven says (12:20 AM)
yeah the main protag
>J says (12:20 AM)
how is he a protagonist
>Laven says (12:21 AM)
its defined right there
and seriously, I just explained why
>J says (12:21 AM)
just because his robot is #1
>Laven says (12:21 AM)
yep
>J says (12:21 AM)
Rei is the main character if there was ever one
Shinji is the framing device to make it interesting
so many stories are told from the main character's pov
Shinji relates the world to the audience
he's like our source to the story in which Rei is the main character
think about this
if Shinji was the main character
why didn't fender make a guitar with him on it
I have another question for you
who is the main character of haruhi
isn't it the same deal?
>Laven says (12:25 AM)
I don't feel like talking about it
>J says (12:25 AM)
just answer 1 more
I'm really curious
>Laven says (12:25 AM)
I haven't seem haruhi enough times to make an argument about it
>J says (12:26 AM)
well me neither
just a gut feeling
not an argument
is it the focus kyon or the mover & shaker haruhi?
>Laven says (12:26 AM)
I would think that its Haruhi
>J says (12:26 AM)
yeah
>Laven says (12:27 AM)
her name is on the title
and she is doing stuff with them equally
and is the key
the story is about her
>J says (12:27 AM)
exactly exactly
>Laven says (12:27 AM)
kyon is just first person explaining the events.
but
Shinji isn't just exmplaining the events
he is doing his thing and runs into Rei and then keeps doing his own thing
>J says (12:29 AM)
exactamundo
>Laven says (12:29 AM)
right
thats why he is a protag and not a frame
because he has his own story apart from what Rei is up to
>J says (12:30 AM)
kyon has his own story besides haruhi
>Laven says (12:30 AM)
barely
>J says (12:30 AM)
he has a house and a sister and relationships with the other characters
>Laven says (12:30 AM)
ok
Im done
>J says (12:31 AM)
it's funny how people can trick us for so long
then one day you find yourself looking at a seating chart
and the whole world gets flip turned upside down
>Laven says (12:31 AM)
for some people I guess
I am comfortable in my understanding of how the show works
