Deleted Ritsuko/Rei Scene from 2.22

Discussion of the new series of Evangelion movies ( "Evangelion Shin Gekijōban", meaning "Evangelion: New Theatrical Edition").
The third installment debuted in Japan on November 17, 2012.

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Deleted Ritsuko/Rei Scene from 2.22

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Postby ONIAgent150 » Fri Feb 17, 2012 1:48 am

Sincerest apologies to the mods if this is already a topic, but I scrolled through five pages of the Rebuild forums and could find nothing specific to this purpose.

I wanted to discuss the deleted scene from 2.22, in which Ritsuko asks Rei if she wants some cuter underwear and that Gendo could help her with this. I only think this is important because it could indicate that Ritsuko has no interest in Gendo in the Rebuild. Why would she suggest Gendo as a partner for Rei if she were interested? Surely she would see Rei as a sort of competiton, so it makes little sense that she would encourage Rei towards the commander.
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Postby chaosakita » Fri Feb 17, 2012 1:58 am

Do you have a link to the script for this?
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Postby Hyper Shinchan » Fri Feb 17, 2012 2:04 am

View Original PostONIAgent150 wrote:Surely she would see Rei as a sort of competiton, so it makes little sense that she would encourage Rei towards the commander.

I'm under the assumption that Ritsuko was trying to provoke Rei rather than encouraging her, something like "I know that you're my rival".
View Original Postchaosakita wrote:Do you have a link to the script for this?

I have a link for you but the scene "should" be present in the BD/DVD, at least it's included in both the Japanese and Italian release.
EDIT: I've checked Svenge's compendium, the four omitted scenes are also featured in the American release.
Last edited by Hyper Shinchan on Fri Feb 17, 2012 2:12 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby ONIAgent150 » Fri Feb 17, 2012 2:10 am

It's so hard to tell with the unfinished animation. But after rewatching it, I can see your point. Just trying to push her buttons. Classic Ritsuko.
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Postby Ornette » Fri Feb 17, 2012 2:30 am

A bit more info about that here: http://forum.evageeks.org/post/357779/New-Eva-222-Scenes-revealed/#357779

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Postby ONIAgent150 » Fri Feb 17, 2012 10:42 pm

Ah! Thanks for the link Ornette.
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Postby Sun Stealer » Fri Feb 24, 2012 5:11 pm

How does that old saying go about things making more sense if you replace the word "despite" with "because"?
"Let me make sure I'm understanding you correctly. You've read through this entire story so far. To recap, the story has featured Rei wondering if she has become a giant insect and considering wearing a Carmen Miranda hat, Kaji completely blowing off important duties, Shinji and Asuka blowing up a building downtown, Misato driving drunk and nearly killing Rei in a hit-and-run, Fuyutski fearing imminent death from a man dressed as a giant slice of pepperoni, Rei talking to a bagel, and Shinji and Asuka digging up an entire cemetery. And now it's character derailment. Okay."-Esselfortium
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Postby Grand Duke of Yashima » Sat Feb 25, 2012 12:41 am

There's a link to the Rei/Ritsuko storyboard on YouTube Here:
[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=endscreen&NR=1&v=Wj_sV4jZoJk[/url]

From watching the scene I get the impression that Ritsuko is trying to feel Rei out if she has any sort of romantic inclinations at all, and uses the underwear question as sort of an indirect way to see if Rei wants to try to improve her appearance. It's subtle, but that scene also brings out a comparison between Rei's rather basic choice in undergarments versus Asuka's striped panties and Misato's very colorful choices.

Remember that it's Ritsuko that first makes the observation that Rei is in love. I wouldn't bring any assumptions over from the original series about what Ritsu-chan's own motivations are though, except to say I rather like the low-key Ritsu in NME versus the repressed ice queen in the original and the manga.

(PS: in living with a part-Japanese wife and daughter for the last 16 years, you can honestly tell a lot about them through their underwear choices. It's not a small issue for them.)
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Postby ONIAgent150 » Sat Feb 25, 2012 1:34 am

Fair enough. I didn't know that was such a cultural thing.

Ritsuko just also strikes me as a supremely creepy character. We see this across almost all her depictions, even in spinoffs. She exists to make the other characters uncomfortable, even more so than Rei I would argue. With Rei, there is nothing to compare her two, while Ritsuko seems relatively normal until her darker side comes out.
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Postby Azathoth » Sat Feb 25, 2012 2:34 am

I wouldn't call her creepy. She's just an asshole.
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Postby Hyper Shinchan » Sat Feb 25, 2012 2:41 am

View Original PostAzathoth wrote:I wouldn't call her creepy. She's just an asshole.

Sometimes she looks slightly creepy to me but it could be just my impression.
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Postby Kendrix » Mon Mar 12, 2012 2:45 pm

View Original PostGrand Duke of Yashima wrote:
Remember that it's Ritsuko that first makes the observation that Rei is in love. )


Not at all - In the scene where she ans Misato converse about Rei's recent changes, Ritsuko is the most surprised that she "would ever do anything for another person"dismissed the possible reason being "love" as impossible.
(When even the proposal description of Rei goes "learned about feelings after she falls in love" and as far as Rebuild is concerned, Asuka, Misato and impliedly Kensuke ("I'm so envious!" I wouldn't dismiss his Judgement as unimportant. Despite being a geek, Kensuke is also characterised as a good judge of character, seeing how he knows how to push both Shinji's and Touji's buttons throought the prologue arc, explains the meaning of Misato being very informal around him to Shinji, and makes that very accurate analysis of Rei in ep 14. Tough a lot of this got cut out for Rebuild, that character trait of his is retained, for example, in the popsicle scene, he spills the beans when Toji will not to facilitate communication between him and Shinji) are positive about it)
While saying anything about the Gendo/Ritsuko relationship would be speculation at this point, that scene clearly cements that Rebuild!Ritsuko still thinks of Rei as a thing incapable of basic human things like love or even remotely caring for someone else.

The underwear scene only adds to that - Not only does it imply that Ritrsuko either (incorrectly, since Its spartan desighn would imply that it is, in fact, Rei herself who picks it, and, we have seen Rei's underwear, it's not exactly hawt dessous, but it's fairly average stuff, nothing that would warrant that level of pity.) assumes that Gendo picks Rei's underwear (and is thus screwing her), or wants to provoke Gendo by setting an ususpecting girl up to do something as ridiculous as asking her boss for spicy underwear. Rei being Rei, she might even do that in front of Fuyutsuki, which would be quite the humilating experience for Gendo...
Ritsuko is abusing her inability to tell that "underwear" is not something you casually talk about.
That's quite mean-spirited and shows Ritsuko's disregard for Rei.
One could even interpret that action as an attempt to return the humilation she was subjected to by Gendo.

If she truly DIDN'T bear Rei any ill will and was really, as you suggest "setting her up"/giving her actual "dating advice", it would be much more logical to subtly push her towards someone her age instead of someone who's both three times her age and also her superior, wouldn't it?
Also, note the insinscere smile when she makes her suggestion, with the position of the eyebrows suggesting an evil grin.

And yes, Ritsuko IS creepy. She might have understandable motives and somehow, she's just a victim, too, but... that extreme fakeness just bugs me.

The underwear comparision might be another side aspect to it, tough.
It's not an exclusive Japanese thing - what someone wears says a lot about them, (Example: Bikini vs. Tankini vs. bathing suits of varying degrees of conservativeness vs. these wraparound thingies vs bathing shorts vs thongs vs topless... etc. ) and if that someone is forced to wear an uniform, they have to customize something else.
I initially thought that Asuka's stripes were meant to denote childishness untill some Japanese person told me they're a fetish staple (That made a certain scene in Elfen Lied much more understandable)
which I then realized Does say a lot about Asuka's character and her way of oversexualizing herself. Since Rebuild has less time to show her showing her boobs in ppls faces, they compensated by redesighning her nightwear to express the same thing in a more "passive" manner that could be inserted in other scenes without taking much screentime on its own- no more plain shorts or long nightgowns for her...
Intrestingly, when we briefly see Mari's discarded clothes, her underwear also looks pretty plain. Or maybe that was just part of her shirt.
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Postby Na7e » Mon Mar 12, 2012 4:09 pm

View Original PostKendrix wrote:I initially thought that Asuka's stripes were meant to denote childishness untill some Japanese person told me they're a fetish staple (That made a certain scene in Elfen Lied much more understandable)
which I then realized Does say a lot about Asuka's character and her way of oversexualizing herself. Since Rebuild has less time to show her showing her boobs in ppls faces, they compensated by redesighning her nightwear to express the same thing in a more "passive" manner that could be inserted in other scenes without taking much screentime on its own- no more plain shorts or long nightgowns for her...


Which doesn't make sense at all given Shikinami's character, since she's not Sohryu who is using her sex appeal in attempt to get Shinji or Kaji to notice her. Hell her entire plan to get in Shinji's good graces is to cook for him. It has nothing to do with less time for her(But thats a whole nother can of worms in the debate quality thread), but because she prefers to be alone, so over-sexualizing herself is counter-productive to that goal.

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Postby Mr. Pointy » Tue Mar 13, 2012 7:34 am

Sorry, I misread the title as Deleted Ritsuko Sex Scene From 2.22.
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Postby Kendrix » Wed Mar 14, 2012 8:09 am

View Original PostNa7e wrote:Which doesn't make sense at all given Shikinami's character,


Nope. she still has a complex to be "adult".
She still wantzs to do all the actions alone and tells Misato how she used to be oh so self-sufficient for her age and never needed anyone to take care of her, and clearly thinks of the trip to the aquarium as totally beneath her.

And then, there's her outfits which cover less than ever - No one would dare to say that Misato's, Ritsuko's or Rei's choice of outfits doesn't say a thing about their characters.

We can only speculate wether her apron-outfit was part of the intended "gift" for Shinji XD

But let's get back to teh topic, shall we?
My basic point is: Ritsuko is being a meanie in that scene and intending to use Rei's innocent mind as a tool to annoy Gendo, with no regard to Rei herself.


Since that scene never made it into the actual film, we still don't have any proof that Rebuild-Ristuko is still involved with Gendo, but remember that the original series also made it quite of a last minute revelation.
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Postby Na7e » Wed Mar 14, 2012 9:27 am

View Original PostKendrix wrote:Nope. she still has a complex to be "adult".
She still wantzs to do all the actions alone and tells Misato how she used to be oh so self-sufficient for her age and never needed anyone to take care of her, and clearly thinks of the trip to the aquarium as totally beneath her.


Yes, because when your alone you tend to be self-sufficient. And, her rambling over the phone is nerves mostly because she is doing an activation test for a new Eva. Which leads to my next point she doesn't care about anything but Eva. Its her escape from the world, her own private womb. Her career for NERV just allows her to stay near it, and cut out the world. As for the aquarium scene of course its beneath her, shes forced to go and god forbid interact with people. She doesn't care for being an adult she wants to be left alone with her Eva. So no the adult complex doesn't work.

Also, stop comparing Shikinami to Sohryu. They are different characters, this has been explained in depth.

View Original PostKendrix wrote:And then, there's her outfits which cover less than ever - No one would dare to say that Misato's, Ritsuko's or Rei's choice of outfits doesn't say a thing about their characters.


Really examples please. Enlighten me when she specifically goes out of her way to flaunt her sex appeal. Because she doesn't. Your lambasting a girl for wearing striped panties and a tanktop to sleep, in a nation thats stuck in a perpetual summer. Or, the fact shes from the west, and have different fashions. And, your right about the outfits,but its not about sex this time more about her actually portraying her as being vulnerable.

View Original PostKendrix wrote:We can only speculate wether her apron-outfit was part of the intended "gift" for Shinji XD


No just no. If she really wanted to use her sex appeal it would've happened in when she jumped in his bed. So I don't see your logic. Considering the entire bed scene shows that shes comfortable to be around him, but not yet ready to show all her baggage.

As for the rest Ritsuko, is not being nice far fucking away from it. Pretty much on the opposite side of the fence. Those facial expressions aren't someone whos in it for your best interests.
Last edited by Na7e on Thu Mar 15, 2012 1:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby robersora » Thu Mar 15, 2012 10:47 am

View Original PostKendrix wrote:Since that scene never made it into the actual film, we still don't have any proof that Rebuild-Ristuko is still involved with Gendo, but remember that the original series also made it quite of a last minute revelation.


But, there was some foreshadowing going on since Episode two. Otherwise this twist would have seemed pulled off.

And yes, Ritsuko IS creepy. She might have understandable motives and somehow, she's just a victim, too, but... that extreme fakeness just bugs me.

Ritsuko is my favorite character.... No one likes her *whine*

Oh, and that whole underwear discussion... In my opinion it was fan service... With a deeper meaning... perhaps. But we can't say that for sure until we know Shikinami better.
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Postby esselfortium » Thu Mar 15, 2012 1:06 pm

I can't really imagine Ritsuko in this scene as being anything but provocative or sardonic, all the more because she almost certainly knows exactly where Rei came from and who she's made of. I wouldn't doubt if she sometimes wonders herself about the same relationship questions that some threads on here ask.

That is to say, "So, Commander Ikari... didja?"

View Original PostKendrix wrote:The underwear comparision might be another side aspect to it, tough.
It's not an exclusive Japanese thing - what someone wears says a lot about them, (Example: Bikini vs. Tankini vs. bathing suits of varying degrees of conservativeness vs. these wraparound thingies vs bathing shorts vs thongs vs topless... etc. ) and if that someone is forced to wear an uniform, they have to customize something else.
I initially thought that Asuka's stripes were meant to denote childishness untill some Japanese person told me they're a fetish staple (That made a certain scene in Elfen Lied much more understandable)
which I then realized Does say a lot about Asuka's character and her way of oversexualizing herself. Since Rebuild has less time to show her showing her boobs in ppls faces, they compensated by redesighning her nightwear to express the same thing in a more "passive" manner that could be inserted in other scenes without taking much screentime on its own- no more plain shorts or long nightgowns for her...


Being raped by the camera doesn't make Asuka a slut.

It does express a lot about the director rather succinctly, though.

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Postby ONIAgent150 » Thu Mar 15, 2012 7:35 pm

View Original Postesselfortium wrote:That is to say, "So, Commander Ikari... didja?"


If someone could make a Ritsuko picture with the ME GUSTA face, that would be wonderful. Thinking back to the scene, I find it interesting that Ritsuko is treating Rei so much like a human. She could just ask Rei if she has had sex and Rei would answer, being Rei. But Ritsuko chooses to be (somewhat) tactful and ask a (fairly) reasonable question to ascertain this.
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Postby Kendrix » Fri Mar 16, 2012 9:53 pm

View Original PostONIAgent150 wrote: Thinking back to the scene, I find it interesting that Ritsuko is treating Rei so much like a human. She could just ask Rei if she has had sex and Rei would answer, being Rei. But Ritsuko chooses to be (somewhat) tactful and ask a (fairly) reasonable question to ascertain this.


Au contraire - I don't see how Ritsuko is treating her like a human here at all.
She doesn't directly ask "Did you fuck" because she's already convinced of that.
Her goal was to tell Gendo she "knows" he's screwing Rei/to provoke him - He is the target.
It's just that, for various reasons, Ritsuko can't or won't make her rebellion too obvious - As much as she hates/tries to fight it, she is submissive at her core and can't really resist him beyond a passive-agressive level (Even the one time she actually tried to blow him to hell after she got pushed too far, she kept apologizing for it, and he got her to meekly face her execution with but one sentence.)
She is totally using the fact that Rei isn't aware that "underwear" isn't something people just go and talk about, and setting her up for a pretty akward, embarassing situation. That she might not realize that she is in such a situation only makes the blow even dirtier - it's like Pullaski bullying Data. Rei can't really fight back, and she's shamelessly using that.
If she saw Rei as anything more than Gendo's personal blow-up doll, and thought he was screwing her, she'd make sure the poor girl stops being abused by a man thrice her age.
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