Why was Shinji strangling Asuka at the end of EoE?

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Re: Why was Shinji strangling Asuka at the end of EoE?

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Postby Reichu » Thu Jun 22, 2017 12:36 am

A sense of retribution like yours would eventually land you in prison in most countries. Just sayin'.

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Re: Why was Shinji strangling Asuka at the end of EoE?

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Postby C.T.1290 » Thu Jun 22, 2017 1:13 am

View Original PostReichu wrote:A sense of retribution like yours would eventually land you in prison in most countries. Just sayin'.

Yeah, that seems something my dad told me when I bring up something like. Sorry if I was coming off as a little crazy.
I just happened to have a bit of a mixed emotion about Asuka; I honestly don't know what to make of her.
I think it's pretty obvious that her attitude towards people tends to make us dislike her, which is apparent at most parts.

However, there is a part of me that likes to think that there is goodness in her, but we just don't see it much, not enough to make up for her actions and bad personality. If there is more good in her, I'd like to see it, if not, then I think everyone would be better off without her.

And it's why I think that Shinji strangling Asuka towards the end during the kitchen scene was somewhat justified. He could only take so much from her before he can finally let it all loose upon her, and it's evident that all of Asuka's actions are coming back to bite her, at full force.

And I was hoping Asuka would learn something after her defeat and everything else that had happened to her, that it's not all right to treat people like shit all the time. Honestly, after Instrumentality, she would have been a better person, but apparently, she's not.
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Re: Why was Shinji strangling Asuka at the end of EoE?

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Postby pwhodges » Thu Jun 22, 2017 1:17 am

View Original PostC.T.1290 wrote:Honestly, after Instrumentality, she would have been a better person, but apparently, she's not.

And so what was the significance of her stroking Shinji's cheek if not to demonstrate the start of that change?
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Re: Why was Shinji strangling Asuka at the end of EoE?

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Postby C.T.1290 » Thu Jun 22, 2017 1:46 am

View Original Postpwhodges wrote:And so what was the significance of her stroking Shinji's cheek if not to demonstrate the start of that change?

I'm not real sure. Sure, it could be a sign of some sort of affection, but most people would argue that Asuka has no positive feelings for Shinji at all. She never cared about his well being in the first place, nor anyone else's.
Realistically, she wouldn't be capable of such positive emotions, all she knows is hate, angef, aggression, resentment towards others, and her desire to put herself before others. That's all she is.

Like I mentioned, she's all take but no give, meaning she would never return any affection even if someone where to give her some. Everything she does was out of selfish reasons, so I don't think there's any redeeming factor about her.

We never seen her go through Instrumentality, so how can we know for sure or what she learned?
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Re: Why was Shinji strangling Asuka at the end of EoE?

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Postby pwhodges » Thu Jun 22, 2017 3:43 am

That's simply denying the evidence put right there in the film showing how she's changed, to suit your preconception. I would suggest that "most people would argue" doesn't get you very far in this situation; you are just refusing to accept that change is possible for anyone, which is rather the point of the ending.
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Re: Why was Shinji strangling Asuka at the end of EoE?

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Postby Zoop » Thu Jun 22, 2017 4:41 am

I'll have to agree with pwhodges here. CT, you seem to have a very negative opinion about Asuka's character, as is your right to have an opinion, but I really don't believe that "most people" would agree with your statements.

I saw Asuka as someone would puts up a mask to hide her emotions and feelings from the world (a big theme within Instrumentality) and she most certainly cares about Shinji. Her way of showing it, however, is the exact opposite of what Shinji would want. She's fcked up alright and a bitch too (she has her reasons for being how she is). But unredeemable? Especially in a series like this which is all about these themes (opening up to eachother, character growth, coming to terms with someone's or one's own flaws, etc etc) seems a bit shortsighted, imo.

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Re: Why was Shinji strangling Asuka at the end of EoE?

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Postby Cybermat47 » Thu Jun 22, 2017 6:14 am

Personally, I just interpreted it as Shinji violently releasing all the pain, self-loathing, and misery that had been building up in him, by strangling someone who always treated him like garbage.

Then, she strokes his face, and he realises that he's trying to kill someone.

Why did she stroke his face, though? Was it merely to stop him from killing her? Or, perhaps, during Instrumentality, she realised that she and Shinji are actually very similar, and she now empathises with him?

As for her saying "how disgusting", I'd say that's her expressing her disgust at that one last time before moving on - or, at least, trying to.
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Re: Why was Shinji strangling Asuka at the end of EoE?

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Postby Tumbling Down » Fri Jul 07, 2017 11:41 pm

She gave him, as TV Tropes would call it, a Reason You Suck speech. No one had ever struck him to his core like that before. The fact that he probably agrees with what she said should maje it even worse.

I mean, he tried it earlier, after she first gave the speech. So then, when she appeared again, he tried again because seeing her brought back all that rage.

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Re: Why was Shinji strangling Asuka at the end of EoE?

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Postby TheCarkolum » Sat Jul 08, 2017 2:10 pm

View Original PostCybermat47 wrote:Personally, I just interpreted it as Shinji violently releasing all the pain, self-loathing, and misery that had been building up in him, by strangling someone who always treated him like garbage.


Exactly. He is using force because it's the only thing that's left.
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Re: Why was Shinji strangling Asuka at the end of EoE?

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Postby OtherNigel » Sat Jul 08, 2017 4:42 pm

I see the strangling as having Freudian, specifically sadomasochistic undertones.
Both Shinji and Asuka switch roles as dominant creatures. EoE is very sexual, so it would definitely fit.

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Re: Why was Shinji strangling Asuka at the end of EoE?

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Postby FreakyFilmFan4ever » Wed Jul 19, 2017 5:25 pm

"Most people would argue" that Asuka is at least one of two "best girls," and that Shinji simply needs to "stop being a pussy" and "get in the damn robot." So I don't think many people have a clear consensus as to how frustrating Asuka could be as an individual.

However, I do think there is some weight to the argument that Asuka is frustrating. Even kind-hearted Hikari was having internal complaints about Asuka's behavior come Ep 22. (I say this as someone who adores Asuka. It's not like I'm blind to her faults.) I think it's also a reenactment of the Eva battle in Ep 2, and a thematic continuation of the AT Field that's established in Ep 2 and explained in Ep 24. Like Unit 01, Shinji is also sitting on top of the other body. Instead of cracking a core with a broken rib, he's trying to strangle her with his hands. Just like Sachiel in Ep 2, Asuka reaches up to the other body's face to eliminate the threat. But instead of tearing away AT Fields, EoE's strangelation scene is about maneuvering through AT Fields and coping with others who now have them after 3rd Impact. (This is a far more harsh example of Shinji and Rei redeveloping AT Fields a couple scenes prior.)

Another possibility is that, since it mirrors Rei I being strangled in Ep 23, and since EoE flashes the silhouette of Naoko strangling Rei I after Asuka's strangling in Instrumentality, it could be that strangulation in EoE is meant to thematically connect with Naoko strangling Rei I. It could be that both Rei I and Asuka separate in some way their respective strangelers from Gendo. (Rei I does this by calling Naoko an "Old Hag," while Asuka does this by calling Shinji "Daddy's Boy.") Naoko couldn't move on from her toxic relationship with Gendo as her lover, so she succeeds in killing in an attempt to maintain that relationship. But Shinji could move on from his toxic relationship with Gendo as his father, so he ceases fighting to maintain it when he feels a supporting touch from Asuka.
Last edited by FreakyFilmFan4ever on Sat Aug 05, 2017 9:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Why was Shinji strangling Asuka at the end of EoE?

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Postby C.T.1290 » Wed Jul 19, 2017 6:25 pm

View Original PostFreakyFilmFan4ever wrote:However, I do think there is some weight to the argument that Asuka is frustrating. Even kind-hearted Hikari was having internal complaints about Asuka's behavior come Ep 22. (I say this as someone who adores Asuka. It's not like I'm blind to her faults.)

It makes me wonder how Hikari can even put up with her. What does she possibly see in her?
But Shinji could move on from his toxic relationship with Gendo as his father, so he ceases fighting to maintain it when he feels a supporting touch from Asuka.

Supporting touch? Just how is that so?
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Re: Why was Shinji strangling Asuka at the end of EoE?

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Postby Sachi » Wed Jul 19, 2017 7:30 pm

View Original PostC.T.1290 wrote:Supporting touch? Just how is that so?

It was a gentle caress that purposefully mirrors Yui's farewell to Shinji. While Shinji feels he is only capable of hurting others with his hands, Asuka reminds him of the potential for connection.
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Re: Why was Shinji strangling Asuka at the end of EoE?

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Postby Josdavi/Armisrael » Fri Aug 04, 2017 11:24 am

Maybe he realized that he fuck up the world (when he denies the instrumentalization), Rei goes off, his mother says goodbye to him, that Rei/litith dead body over the planet , anyone in that situation would kill oneself to that.
But Shinji saw Asuka at the end, and he did not wanted to see Asuka suffer the rest of her life in the same situation that him. And thats the reason that he tries to kill her (after that, maybe he would try to kill himself), but, when he realize that she is alive and show some affection to him, he stopped and maybe thought that they could make their lifes togheter.
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Re: Why was Shinji strangling Asuka at the end of EoE?

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Postby C.T.1290 » Fri Aug 04, 2017 11:48 pm

View Original PostJosdavi/Armisrael wrote:But Shinji saw Asuka at the end, and he did not wanted to see Asuka suffer the rest of her life in the same situation that him. And thats the reason that he tries to kill her (after that, maybe he would try to kill himself), but, when he realize that she is alive and show some affection to him, he stopped and maybe thought that they could make their lifes togheter.

Mercy killing? Not really sure that was his intention. It's been said that he was strangling her to confirm her existence. While at the same time, he may still feel rage towards her for not accepting his plea for help during the pre-instrumentalty sequence.

It looks like these two are going to have a tough time together. Could end up one way or another, good or bad.
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Re: Why was Shinji strangling Asuka at the end of EoE?

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Postby FreakyFilmFan4ever » Sat Aug 05, 2017 9:05 pm

View Original PostC.T.1290 wrote:It makes me wonder how Hikari can even put up with her. What does she possibly see in her?

This is the same girl who claims to see the kind side of Toji, and I don't think she's misguided in thinking that. She's the most optimistic character in the entire show, and perhaps the most mentally healthy and stable of any given character in the franchise.

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Re: Why was Shinji strangling Asuka at the end of EoE?

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Postby robersora » Sun Aug 06, 2017 12:34 am

^
She is, but given her expression in E22, we can see how fed up and overwhelmed she is with Asuka. I think she's just a very polite girl who tries to do the right thing, even if it is to her own detriment.
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Re: Why was Shinji strangling Asuka at the end of EoE?

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Postby Sachi » Sun Aug 06, 2017 12:58 am

Hikari's character flaw is she is the responsible one. She NEEDS to be. We know she takes care of both her sisters, even though one is older. Given that she's in Class 2-A, her mother is likely dead. I imagine it's too difficult for the father to juggle a job and care for three daughters, so Hikari was forced to step up and did what she felt was the responsible thing to do. She was forced to grow up quickly, more quickly than her elder sister. This quality of hers is likely what got her the role of Class Rep in the first place. However, I'd say this all probably happened at the expense of her childhood. Because of this, Kensuke wins the role of least damaged Eva character.

With Asuka, Hikari took on more responsibility than she was prepared for, and as a result enabled Asuka to continue being self destructive. Goes to show that even good intentions can be harmful.
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Re: Why was Shinji strangling Asuka at the end of EoE?

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Postby C.T.1290 » Sun Aug 06, 2017 11:38 pm

You have to admit, Hikari has an amazing level of tolerance when it comes to being around people such as Asuka. If it were me, I'd probably won't last that long. But I guess if Asuka could tone down her haughtiness and keep her temper in check, then I'd probably be fine.

Shinji probably had that same tolerance level too as Hikari, due to his pasive nature. He just doesn't have the ability to lash out at people, no matter how frustrating it can be, which is a total opposite from Asuka.
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Re: Why was Shinji strangling Asuka at the end of EoE?

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Postby VoidEater » Thu Aug 10, 2017 4:25 pm

Much of narrative surrounding identity of the individuals points to the self that is in the ego, and seen externally or superficially by others, versus the self that it is hidden behind the ego, and experienced subjectively only by the individual (becoming more accessible as everyone turns into orange soup).

I have always interpreted the choking scene to be part of the reintegration of individuality - we see how they act without their ego self as they reintegrate: Shinji finally expressing his anger and resentment towards the way Asuka has treated him throughout their relationship (choking her), and Asuka finally expressing her feelings of desire towards Shinji (stroking his cheek).

As integration continues and ego is finally reaffirmed, Shinji becomes newly aware of what he is doing and draws back, while Asuka's last line can be made to have sense (regardless of whether it was intended to make sense): her ego is disgusted by the gentle interaction and feelings she has for Shinji, trained as it has been to reject such.
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