Why was Shinji strangling Asuka at the end of EoE?

For serious and at times in-depth discussions only.

Moderator: Board Staff

Blue Monday
Evangelion
Evangelion
User avatar
Age: 28
Posts: 3309
Joined: Jun 17, 2012
Gender: Male

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Blue Monday » Fri Aug 10, 2012 2:41 am

View Original PostVenez wrote:Personally I think you can not try to find meaning in every detail. The table cloth was red... IT SYMBOLIZES THE DEATH OF HUMANITY OMG WHAT DO!?

I've found the community here to be pretty good in this regard so far, i.e. letting anyone know if they're grasping at straws or over-analysing something to the point of being ridiculous. Different strokes for different folks though - If some people want to do that, they can...
"Eva(Geeks) is a story that repeats."
Warren Peace, #643919

Ornette
Administrator
Administrator
User avatar
Age: 43
Posts: 11733
Joined: Dec 26, 2005
Location: Pittsburgh/New York City
Gender: Male
Contact:

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Ornette » Fri Aug 10, 2012 3:09 am

Well, there's a difference between deriving personal meaning from something and trying to figure out what the creators was trying to say. But both involve looking at specific details as well as the big picture on multiple levels, including color symbolism.
Paganini's 14th Caprice in Eb Maj - recordings from 2004 -Vinyl collection at Discogs.
I have a haiku,
Okay, Okay, here it is,
damn, I forgot it

Venez
Embryo
User avatar
Posts: 24
Joined: Aug 09, 2012
Gender: Male

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Venez » Fri Aug 10, 2012 11:12 am

I realize this, I'm just saying there is a point where it becomes a little much. Again not saying anyone has done this, I've just seen it around when it's come to Evangelion.
Truth is Subjective

Aurelian
Lilith
User avatar
Age: 73
Posts: 148
Joined: Aug 05, 2012
Location: Assland
Gender: Male

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Aurelian » Sat Aug 11, 2012 10:55 am

Venez, the masturbation is armless at least XD (Basta the concerned noticed nothing and did not get abused like the girl in "Kill Bill".)


I R attempting to synthesize what I read :derp: :

Asuka in the hospital (room 303) mental state. Back to the state (same?).
Asuka last wounds inside (Head and right arm). Bandages covering them ( just in appearance?)
Shinji last clear scene with Asuka (but not real), the choke. Back to where things were left.

Time. (How much time passed?)
State of the environnement. (Reality? Dream?=> Test on Asuka? |D)
State of people. (Clothes, wounds, "revived"?, etc.)

It is not sure that Asuka died. The poor Eva-02 surely did, but for Asuka , we don't know.



Bagheera: "Only one showing derp here is you."
No...
U!

Venez
Embryo
User avatar
Posts: 24
Joined: Aug 09, 2012
Gender: Male

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Venez » Sat Aug 11, 2012 11:03 am

It takes a bit to actually die from suffocation, he loosened up after the caress, so I assume she isn't dead. On a barren planet with no food or water I would assume you wouldn't live long past that though?
Truth is Subjective

Joe
Adam
User avatar
Age: 23
Posts: 78
Joined: Aug 08, 2012
Location: France
Gender: Male

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Joe » Sat Aug 11, 2012 11:07 am

It is not sure that Asuka died. The poor Eva-02 surely did, but for Asuka , we don't know.


She died. The sync' with Eva-02 was so high that his arm was split in two, so when the Mass product eva shredded Eva-02 a few seconds later, Asuka died.

Venez
Embryo
User avatar
Posts: 24
Joined: Aug 09, 2012
Gender: Male

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Venez » Sat Aug 11, 2012 11:41 am

View Original PostJoe wrote:She died. The sync' with Eva-02 was so high that his arm was split in two, so when the Mass product eva shredded Eva-02 a few seconds later, Asuka died.


So at the end of EoE I'm assuming she was dead as well? Or would the bandages suggest otherwise?
Truth is Subjective

Joe
Adam
User avatar
Age: 23
Posts: 78
Joined: Aug 08, 2012
Location: France
Gender: Male

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Joe » Sat Aug 11, 2012 11:48 am

At the end of EoE, she reborn with her own visualisation of her body. During the battle against the MPE, she didn't accepts to lose, so in his mind she is not dead/shredded.
Bandages are symbolic and in my opinion.
But it is unclear, because it means that dead people before the instrumentality project can revive from the the LcL sea.
And it means that the death concern the body, not the soul, and those souls take place in the intrumentality project.

maybe I've written a lot of crap, but that's what I think.

Why Shinji is strangling Asuka ?
... ... I need to watch EoE again in order to make me an opinion.

Bagheera
Banned
User avatar
Posts: 18626
Joined: Oct 15, 2010

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Bagheera » Sat Aug 11, 2012 11:59 am

View Original PostVenez wrote:It takes a bit to actually die from suffocation, he loosened up after the caress, so I assume she isn't dead. On a barren planet with no food or water I would assume you wouldn't live long past that though?


Why would you assume there's no food or water? Far as I can tell 3I didn't do much of anything to either.
For my post-3I fic, go here.
The law doesn't protect people. People protect the law. -- Akane Tsunemori, Psycho-Pass
People's deaths are to be mourned. The ability to save people should be celebrated. Life itself should be exalted. -- Volken Macmani, Tatakau Shisho: The Book of Bantorra
I hate myself. But maybe I can learn to love myself. Maybe it's okay for me to be here! That's right! I'm me, nothing more, nothing less! I'm me. I want to be me! I want to be here! And it's okay for me to be here! -- Shinji Ikari, Neon Genesis Evangelion
Yes, I know. You thought it would be something about Asuka. You're such idiots.

Aurelian
Lilith
User avatar
Age: 73
Posts: 148
Joined: Aug 05, 2012
Location: Assland
Gender: Male

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Aurelian » Sat Aug 11, 2012 12:09 pm

The combo of ideas you're suggesting stand up.

The rate of the sync cannot drastically change within a short lapse of time?

Joe
Adam
User avatar
Age: 23
Posts: 78
Joined: Aug 08, 2012
Location: France
Gender: Male

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Joe » Sat Aug 11, 2012 12:14 pm

The rate of the sync cannot drastically change within a short lapse of time?


I think that the rate of the sync is mainly controled by Terminal dogma's team, and only them can modified it rapidly.
But it can change because of an external (Asuka's mind rape).

Aurelian
Lilith
User avatar
Age: 73
Posts: 148
Joined: Aug 05, 2012
Location: Assland
Gender: Male

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Aurelian » Sat Aug 11, 2012 12:36 pm

Oh ,boy. So much points escaped me.

I thought Dogma's team had some control uppon the sync (they are the one behind that process afterall.) Yet , I thought the sync depended principaly on the Eva (human soul inside) and the pilot conditions, leading to some (more or less) good surprises.
The team gave me the feeling to be only capable to watch the failure (or its opposite) powerless sometime and trying to rectify or change what they could according to the situation.
Which is why I thought Asuka's death occured or not is a mystery.

Ornette
Administrator
Administrator
User avatar
Age: 43
Posts: 11733
Joined: Dec 26, 2005
Location: Pittsburgh/New York City
Gender: Male
Contact:

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Ornette » Sat Aug 11, 2012 12:36 pm

View Original PostJoe wrote:I think that the rate of the sync is mainly controled by Terminal dogma's team, and only them can modified it rapidly.
But it can change because of an external (Asuka's mind rape).

What do you mean by "Terminal dogma's team?" Is that the small group of all the people who are really in the know at Nerv (e.g. Gendo, Fuyu, maybe Ritsuko)?

As far as just Nerv, I don't think they controlled Shinji/Eva-01 to achieve 400% sync. And that instance was a drastic, unexpected change, from deactivated to 400%. By all indicators it's between the pilot and the soul in the Eva, with some training thrown in.

The bandages, plugsuit, Shinji's school uniform, etc can be chocked up to the "self-image is pseudo-substantiating" the clothing/bandages/etc. There's a precedence of this, in an in-story explanation, in Episode 20 when Ritsuko explains why there's a plugsuit floating around in the LCL in the entry plug (when Shinji wore no such thing earlier).

As for the food/survivability post 3I, there's a lot of touching on those points throughout the (long) passage of time thread.

As for Asuka dying after the MPE fight, there's this archived thread: "Does Asuka die?" or this Asuka's Fate thread.

This thread is about the final scene, let's keep these tangents in their appropriate threads.
Paganini's 14th Caprice in Eb Maj - recordings from 2004 -Vinyl collection at Discogs.
I have a haiku,
Okay, Okay, here it is,
damn, I forgot it

Joe
Adam
User avatar
Age: 23
Posts: 78
Joined: Aug 08, 2012
Location: France
Gender: Male

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Joe » Sat Aug 11, 2012 12:47 pm

What do you mean by "Terminal dogma's team?" Is that the small group of all the people who are really in the know at Nerv (e.g. Gendo, Fuyu, maybe Ritsuko)?

Sorry, I am very wrong expressed.

I am talking about them :
SPOILER: Show
Image
Image
Image

For exemple, against Bardiel, fuyutsiku ask Maya to put the sync' rate at 28%.
It appears that eva pilots cannot adjust the sync' rate by themself.

Yes, sorry, I come back to the main topic now.

Aurelian
Lilith
User avatar
Age: 73
Posts: 148
Joined: Aug 05, 2012
Location: Assland
Gender: Male

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Aurelian » Sat Aug 11, 2012 2:06 pm

We're trying to pick up some clues to understand this very scene and to shape or/ and narrow the field of possibilities. I'm aware I can't respect the limit that is imposed. The clues are into a tree of topics that has to be partially tackled to gather enough information (or assumptions ) I'm lacking and that I need to be lead into.

EvaBrothers
Sachiel
User avatar
Age: 32
Posts: 219
Joined: Nov 08, 2011
Location: Italy
Gender: Female
Contact:

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby EvaBrothers » Wed Aug 15, 2012 2:23 pm

When I watched the scene the first time (I'm one of those who attribute some kind of importance to first impressions), this is what I felt:

Shinji is just back to real, material world. Asuka lays beside him and she looks so real too. He tries to strangle her because it's a way to reconnect to his pre-3I life, and because he needs to make sure everything still real around him, 'back to normal' in a certain way.

When Asuka caresses him, he's come to full realization. I interpreted his tears as the moment a shell cracks around him, making him say, inside, something like "We're alive".**


**This interpretation may be linked to my personal biography, though, so it may be wrong.
~ Luana Spinetti ~ Jabber: luanaspinetti@linuxlovers.at
Avatar courtesy of sinkerhooks. It's Misato because I'm 29 just like her this year.
"On the floor of the midbrain is the ventral segmental system, that neurobiologists call region A10. Cells soaked in dopamine, certain emotions are processed here: such as the thoughts of two lovers - or a parent and a child. And it is the synchronization of the threads and bundles of A10 that splice pilot and Eva together; to become one entity, to fight. In other words, the power of love drives this weapon of mass destruction." -Yoshiyuki Sadamoto

King Pen Pen of Tokyo 3
Embryo
Age: 22
Posts: 5
Joined: Aug 02, 2012
Location: Tokyo 3
Gender: Male

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby King Pen Pen of Tokyo 3 » Sat Aug 18, 2012 10:22 pm

Oh my Gendo, this. Well there are a multitude of theories of what this scene was about, as many have stated before. The crazyest being that she represented all of humanity and choking her/ humanity was basically showing how Shinji fealt about humanity as a whole at the time. This coming from the fact that her eye color was different and her plug suit was slightly different. Of course this alone doesn't give much evidence to this, but again just a theory, and of course this being one of Anno's works there's no limit to how strange things can get.
Man fears the darkness, and so he scrapes away at the edges of it with fire. -Rei Ayanami

AuraTwilight
Evangelion
Evangelion
User avatar
Posts: 3294
Joined: Mar 16, 2008
Location: Za Warudo

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby AuraTwilight » Sun Aug 19, 2012 10:44 am

Her eye color isn't even different. It's just a result of a red tint being over EVERYTHING IN THE WORLD, hilariously enough.
J_Faulkner, be warned that some of your statements could be construed as ad hominem attacks. -- Priceless, eternal irony

Anno has perfected the side boob --Gendo'sPapa

TheCarkolum
Tunniel
User avatar
Posts: 151
Joined: Jun 07, 2017

Re: Why was Shinji strangling Asuka at the end of EoE?

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby TheCarkolum » Sun Jun 18, 2017 6:54 pm

I don't think he wants to confirm she's real. Choking a person to see if is real? No, that seems too much craziness. And come on people, you think it's a coincidence that he chokes her "twice"? Ok, idk where the first choking actually happens, maybe in Shinji's head, but you get the idea.

I think it's frustration. Why? Let's move to the first choking. That scene is basically Shinji saying: "Give me hope Asuka. Don't let me die or disappear in the instrumentality! You are the one who can help me! You are the only one who embraces life and the only one who is not scary or a liar! I need you in order to live!"

She rejects Shinji. Shinji is impotent, so he does... it. An act of violence. I think that scene is extremely dark, and I just love it. It's so desperate, so sad, so angry and so revealing at the same time... Maybe Shinji could not do that, but you know the subconscious could be very primitive and violent (a random guy called Freud said so).

Going back to the beach, now Asuka is the real thing. Shinji was "some time" alone (no I'm not discussing the time, you guys have already done that). Imagine. For the first time he needs people and he's not scared, he needs someone around because he told Rei so. And who appears? Asuka, the girl who rejected him so many times, the girl he's never meant to understand (at least he thinks so). So he does his thing, he feels frustrated. That act of violence is the only way he knows to be in touch with Asuka, without been rejected. It's like the act of raping, an act a fucking rapist does to dominate the victim. But suddenly, Asuka gives him some love!! Yaay finally! And afterwards, Shinji cries of emotion. That's my take on the choking thing.
“The tragedy of growing old is not that one is old but that one is young.” - Oscar Wilde



"Remember kids, a smart man knows when it's time to RUN LIKE A LITTLE BITCH!!"

C.T.1290
Sachiel
Age: 26
Posts: 211
Joined: Apr 22, 2017
Gender: Male

Re: Why was Shinji strangling Asuka at the end of EoE?

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby C.T.1290 » Thu Jun 22, 2017 12:29 am

View Original PostTheCarkolum wrote:I think it's frustration. Why? Let's move to the first choking. That scene is basically Shinji saying: "Give me hope Asuka. Don't let me die or disappear in the instrumentality! You are the one who can help me! You are the only one who embraces life and the only one who is not scary or a liar! I need you in order to live!"

She rejects Shinji. Shinji is impotent, so he does... it. An act of violence.

And that was a part that I think she had coming to her, for all the time she had treated Shinji, and that was karma coming right back at her.(unless you want to also count her defeat at the hands of the MP EVAs. but then again, that might have been a little too brutal.)
And who appears? Asuka, the girl who rejected him so many times, the girl he's never meant to understand (at least he thinks so). So he does his thing, he feels frustrated. That act of violence is the only way he knows to be in touch with Asuka, without been rejected.

If he was frustrated, why couldn't he just finish her off right on the spot? I'm sure he would've been better off without her for all they went through.
But suddenly, Asuka gives him some love!! Yaay finally! And afterwards, Shinji cries of emotion. That's my take on the choking thing.

And how could Asuka ever be capable of love? She never knows what love is. It would be nearly impossible for her to show that kind of emotion, especially towards Shinji, whom she always hated. Showing love would be out of character for her, as she sees this as a weakness. For all we know, she could still feel resentment towards him, and her stroking his cheek was just her way to get him to stop, but not out of love or care. True, she has been seeking affection but will give none in return, no matter how nice someone is towards Asuka. Seriously, she's all take but no give. I could hardly imagine her ever being capable of showing genuine love towards someone who people claimed she needed. What hope is there left for Asuka?
ONE RING TO RULE THEM ALL. ONE RING YOU TO FIND IT. ONE RING TO BRING THEM ALL AND IN THE DARKNESS BIND THEM.

"KONO DIO DA!"-Dio


Return to “Evangelion Discussion”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests