Why was Shinji strangling Asuka at the end of EoE?

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Postby Blue Monday » Sun Aug 05, 2012 2:44 am

View Original PostBagheera wrote:Rei is able to project herself back through time once she merges with Kaworu and Lilith. We see her appearing to Misato and Ritsuko as they die, and she presumably appeared to Asuka as well. She is thus able to pull them into Instrumentality (and P3II) no matter when they died.

Yeah, this is what was coined as the 'Quantum Magic' stuff, right? What I was trying to get at with my 'juju' comment (See previous post) was that this ritual is above beyond anything humans have ever likely dealt with before. Just the sheer scope of it is awe inspiring. Certainly a degree of 'magic' is involved.
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Postby Ceimoa Nan » Sun Aug 05, 2012 3:31 am

View Original PostBagheera wrote:It's not really clear, but it's likely the location of the soul is far more important. How or if souls are in any way mobile remains an unanswered question.


Well, we see those little red dots flying out of peoples' tanged remains and into the Black Moon and the Doors of Guf. So souls are probably mobile. We see the Black Moon explode and all the souls return to Earth. But, yeah, whether or not Kiel's soul would need to return to that exact puddle around his cybernetic implants in his conference room, or whether he could reform his body using any bucketful of LCL on Earth (disregarding any reliance on those cybernetics), is not really clear. I wonder if my question was too off-topic anyways.

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Postby Bagheera » Sun Aug 05, 2012 4:03 am

View Original PostCeimoa Nan wrote:Well, we see those little red dots flying out of peoples' tanged remains and into the Black Moon and the Doors of Guf. So souls are probably mobile. We see the Black Moon explode and all the souls return to Earth.


That just means the souls can be moved. It doesn't mean they can move under their own power. I mostly just assume they'll all settle into the ocean and use the LCL there to reform bodies close to their point of origin should the owner wish to come back.
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People's deaths are to be mourned. The ability to save people should be celebrated. Life itself should be exalted. -- Volken Macmani, Tatakau Shisho: The Book of Bantorra
I hate myself. But maybe I can learn to love myself. Maybe it's okay for me to be here! That's right! I'm me, nothing more, nothing less! I'm me. I want to be me! I want to be here! And it's okay for me to be here! -- Shinji Ikari, Neon Genesis Evangelion
Yes, I know. You thought it would be something about Asuka. You're such idiots.

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Postby thewayneiac » Sun Aug 05, 2012 10:44 am

View Original PostBlue Monday wrote:Kaji couldn't return as he died a long time before Instrumentality was initiated.


But he is clearly shown as participating in instrumentality. (Spouting off about rainy days vs sunny days, the congratulations scene, ect.)

Anyone whose soul participates in Instrumentality would be able to return.
Rejoice, glory is ours. Our young men have not died in vain. Their graves need no flowers. The tapes have recorded their names.
I am all there is.
Negative! Primative! Limited! I let you live.
But I gave you life.
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To do what was right.
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Postby Blue Monday » Sun Aug 05, 2012 8:15 pm

Whilst I buy into concurrency between EOTV and EOE - I was thinking purely along the lines of what is presented in the movie with that statement. Even though Kaji participated in Instrumentality in EOTV; I highly doubt he would return, due to the same reasons I think Misato wouldn't.

Off the top of my head I can't really remember but does Kaji have much of a role or any dialogue in EOE? I think he has, like, a sentence or two, maybe...
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Postby TheSophist » Sun Aug 05, 2012 8:53 pm

Shinji strangled Asuka out of hatred, a continuation from when Asuka poured coffe over him and refused to help him

She touched his cheek, a sign of affection.

he broke down and started crying, a kind of post traumatic stress.

He probably realised shes another complex human being just like him.

Simple

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Postby Blue Monday » Sun Aug 05, 2012 9:09 pm

Asuka didn't pour the coffee over him - He just knocks the pot when he trips.

I wouldn't say it was out of hatred; as the strangling scene earlier in P3II is him lashing out at her in anger because she is rejecting him. He snaps. "You've hurt me, now I'm going to hurt you" kind of thing, taken to the extreme as one would expect (Really amazing scene I should add. I got choked up myself when I first saw it when I was younger. No pun intended). Anger and hatred are two very different things. Time has passed since then though as well, so it can't purely just be out of that same anger.

Honestly, as many others have posted, I agree in thinking it's really an amalgam of:
-A continuation of the aforementioned P3II scene.
-Confirming that Asuka is alive, separate or 'other'.
-Carrying out her wish of "I'd rather die than be with you!"

It always boils down to how the individual interprets it too.

As you said though, we then get the caress which is a sign of affection. The rest is... A whole other discussion.
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Postby Der Kommissar » Sun Aug 05, 2012 10:28 pm

so it can't purely just be out of that same anger.


Can't it? Time has apparently passed. Enough to unhinge the kid again and (I would assume) make him think he's been abandoned after all. Who else does he see but the girl that explicitly told him to fuck off when he was last in this situation? Not surprising he gives the same response here, albiet preemptively, considering his probably unstable state.

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Postby Blue Monday » Sun Aug 05, 2012 10:33 pm

Valid. I was going with time would have assuaged the anger somewhat.

Either way.

Going along with that though, it would also be possible to say that the anger then developed into hatred if it were to fester over that time.

Again... either way, haha.
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Postby Aurelian » Tue Aug 07, 2012 5:48 pm

3 questions after reading some comments

How Asuka could know the reason of why he was attempting to murder her?
She knows him as someone who refuses to kill humans (or just pals) even if he has to loose his life for that.

Why her eyes looked so "empty"?

Andatwhichmomentandhowdidshegotherbandages?

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Postby Der Kommissar » Tue Aug 07, 2012 7:05 pm

How Asuka could know the reason of why he was attempting to murder her?


Apparently being part of a primordial ur-being gives you unwanted, unpleasant insight into others' and yourself. It's perfectly possible that she didn't understand the exact why, just the general why (the strangling being a gesture more of hurt than malice).

Why her eyes looked so "empty"?


LCL IS A HELLUVA DRUG!

Jest aside. Post-trauma shock. Instrumentality was a lot to take in. Shinji's got the same thousand-yard stare going on, though I tend to think his is because he's been waiting around weeks or months for people to come back, slowly losing his goddamn mind.

Andatwhichmomentandhowdidshegotherbandages?


Unelaborated-upon. One imagines she projected them onto herself when she reformed (apparently the last moments with the MP Evas left an impression on her psyche). If they're covering any real injuries? Who knows. But you wouldn't be using a bisected arm to perform a caress like that, so I'd lean towards "no." Shinji similarly appears to have envisioned himself as clothed.

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Postby Aurelian » Thu Aug 09, 2012 2:52 pm

The idea of timedid not came in my mind.

Shinji "reappeared" with the same clothes he wore last time he was in Eva-01. The nude Shinji could be just a mental image.

The split arm covered of bandages is still Herp-Derp.
Even intensive medical care and time cannot repair such wound.
Asuka is alone with no equipement and her bandaged arm shows sign of functionality. Derp++
(She could still perform a caress with left hand or a knee straight into Shinji's stomach to calm the shit down.)


I don't know about the others, personally if I started to strangle someone I believe it means I want his death not just hurting.

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Postby Venez » Thu Aug 09, 2012 3:15 pm

My personal interpretation of it was as follows, feel free to argue with me, as the meaning of most things in Evangelion are 100% subjective.

I believe it was a similar circumstance to the vision he had with the broken coffee pot, maybe just seeing if it was real, confirming the existence of another person. She caressed his face, and he seemed to loosen up. I believe due to the stress on the characters, it's really anyone's guess. I mean hell the world just ended in a sense. It's better then masturbating to her body eh? Let's not forget that hospital scene.
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Postby Monk Ed » Thu Aug 09, 2012 4:29 pm

View Original PostAurelian wrote:The split arm covered of bandages is still Herp-Derp.
Even intensive medical care and time cannot repair such wound.
Asuka is alone with no equipement and her bandaged arm shows sign of functionality. Derp++

What is so "herp derp" about it? She's probably not supposed to be in any state of physical injury at that point. Remember, she was killed. The fact that she's alive again means she's been healed, so why not fully? If she can be alive again after getting torn to pieces, what's so herp-derp about her being uninjured to boot? The bandages seem to be symbolic more than anything else.
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Postby Bagheera » Thu Aug 09, 2012 4:52 pm

View Original PostAurelian wrote:The split arm covered of bandages is still Herp-Derp.
Even intensive medical care and time cannot repair such wound.
Asuka is alone with no equipement and her bandaged arm shows sign of functionality. Derp++
(She could still perform a caress with left hand or a knee straight into Shinji's stomach to calm the shit down.)


Lolwut? She turned into LCL and reformed in the shape of a human via an act of will. The bandages are symbolic, nothing more (I personally favor the notion that she has scars (for similar reasons), but in all likelihood her arm is as good as new). Only one showing derp here is you.
For my post-3I fic, go here.
The law doesn't protect people. People protect the law. -- Akane Tsunemori, Psycho-Pass
People's deaths are to be mourned. The ability to save people should be celebrated. Life itself should be exalted. -- Volken Macmani, Tatakau Shisho: The Book of Bantorra
I hate myself. But maybe I can learn to love myself. Maybe it's okay for me to be here! That's right! I'm me, nothing more, nothing less! I'm me. I want to be me! I want to be here! And it's okay for me to be here! -- Shinji Ikari, Neon Genesis Evangelion
Yes, I know. You thought it would be something about Asuka. You're such idiots.

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Postby Venez » Thu Aug 09, 2012 4:56 pm

Personally I think you can not try to find meaning in every detail. The table cloth was red... IT SYMBOLIZES THE DEATH OF HUMANITY OMG WHAT DO!? But really, there is a point where reading between the lines goes over the top. I am not saying anyone here has gotten to that point, I'm just saying consider the ceiling. The bandages could have meant a multitude of things, anyone's guess is as good as mine. I would love to see what people come up with.
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Postby Der Kommissar » Thu Aug 09, 2012 6:49 pm

View Original PostBagheera wrote:(I personally favor the notion that she has scars (for similar reasons), but in all likelihood her arm is as good as new).


I tend to suspect this is the case. Though really, after all that's happened, that's probably the last thing she needs.

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Postby Bagheera » Thu Aug 09, 2012 7:25 pm

View Original PostDer Kommissar wrote:I tend to suspect this is the case. Though really, after all that's happened, that's probably the last thing she needs.


In my personal head-canon she, after she heals up a bit, goes through one last sync experiment to essentially revitalize herself. One round of tang later she's good as new. It's a long story, one involving an unfinished MPE core and a "dummy soul", but the gist is that she develops positive applications of Eva tech and uses them to good effect.
For my post-3I fic, go here.
The law doesn't protect people. People protect the law. -- Akane Tsunemori, Psycho-Pass
People's deaths are to be mourned. The ability to save people should be celebrated. Life itself should be exalted. -- Volken Macmani, Tatakau Shisho: The Book of Bantorra
I hate myself. But maybe I can learn to love myself. Maybe it's okay for me to be here! That's right! I'm me, nothing more, nothing less! I'm me. I want to be me! I want to be here! And it's okay for me to be here! -- Shinji Ikari, Neon Genesis Evangelion
Yes, I know. You thought it would be something about Asuka. You're such idiots.

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Postby Monk Ed » Fri Aug 10, 2012 12:05 am

^ By "personal head-canon" do you mean that fic you told me about?
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Postby Bagheera » Fri Aug 10, 2012 1:28 am

View Original PostMonk Ed wrote:^ By "personal head-canon" do you mean that fic you told me about?


The fic's derived from that, yeah.
For my post-3I fic, go here.
The law doesn't protect people. People protect the law. -- Akane Tsunemori, Psycho-Pass
People's deaths are to be mourned. The ability to save people should be celebrated. Life itself should be exalted. -- Volken Macmani, Tatakau Shisho: The Book of Bantorra
I hate myself. But maybe I can learn to love myself. Maybe it's okay for me to be here! That's right! I'm me, nothing more, nothing less! I'm me. I want to be me! I want to be here! And it's okay for me to be here! -- Shinji Ikari, Neon Genesis Evangelion
Yes, I know. You thought it would be something about Asuka. You're such idiots.


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