Eva or pilot? Which is the dominant soul?

For serious and at times in-depth discussions only.

Moderator: Board Staff

Bender
Embryo
User avatar
Age: 28
Posts: 11
Joined: Aug 23, 2011
Location: Alberque
Gender: Male

Eva or pilot? Which is the dominant soul?

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Bender » Wed Sep 07, 2011 4:39 pm

I was re-watching episode 24 and I forget which one is the controller. Is it cause Asuka was missing or Kyoko that Kaworu could synch with it?

Azathoth
Angel
Angel
User avatar
Posts: 3495
Joined: Dec 08, 2009
Location: somewhere under noctis labyrinthus

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Azathoth » Wed Sep 07, 2011 5:23 pm

Kaworu can pilot Unit 02 because Kyoko's soul is "shutting itself up". Basically Kyoko's refusing to control Unit 02's body, so Kaworu is capable of possessing it.
Nothing is so valuable that it need not be started afresh, nothing is so rich that it need not be enriched constantly.

Hawq
Lilith
Age: 42
Posts: 137
Joined: May 25, 2010
Location: at my computer
Gender: Male

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Hawq » Tue Dec 06, 2011 3:10 pm

It probably all depends on the situation, in that case as said the soul is basically wanting nothing to do with events + he does have a slight advantage as well, in other cases (OK pretty much just those involving unit 1) it seems the pilot is kind of irrelevant to the action as they are incapacitated in some way or have no power to the controls

Xacebans
Lilith
User avatar
Age: 22
Posts: 140
Joined: Oct 07, 2011
Location: Massachuuuuusetts
Gender: Female

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Xacebans » Wed Dec 07, 2011 7:40 pm

In that particular fight, Kaworu's soul was completely dominant, but that's a special circumstance due to Kaworu's speshull nature.
I think in most fights the pilots are in command (with a bit of help from the Eva's soul, perhaps) unless there's berserking going on.

Remember the synchro rate--I think when the synchro rate is highest the Eva's soul is helping the pilot the most; their commands are more synchronized.
TehDonutKing: Break out the booze, sixth-graders, and funny hats, for Xacebans became a true EvaGeek, for checking out Eva-01.
Aiko Heiwa: @Xacebans - Oh baby.
AngelNo13Bardiel: ...good news, Reichu! I think we finally found your long-lost sibling!

liquidus118
Zeruel
Zeruel
User avatar
Age: 25
Posts: 811
Joined: Oct 30, 2010
Location: England
Gender: Male

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby liquidus118 » Wed Dec 07, 2011 8:03 pm

He said because the dormant soul within the Eva was in hiding, IIRC. That can't mean Asuka, it has to mean Kyoko.

Reichu
Space-Time Teratoma
Space-Time Teratoma
Posts: 23351
Joined: Aug 21, 2004
Location: Lost in Bat Country
Gender: Female
Contact:

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Reichu » Wed Dec 07, 2011 8:35 pm

View Original PostXacebans wrote:I think in most fights the pilots are in command (with a bit of help from the Eva's soul, perhaps)

Not "perhaps"; "definitely". Without the native soul there as a "medium", piloting isn't possible. (Unless you're Kaworu and are supposed to be inhabiting an Eva-like body.)

Remember the synchro rate--I think when the synchro rate is highest the Eva's soul is helping the pilot the most; their commands are more synchronized.

But, as we've seen, a synch rate that's too high results in the pilot dissolving and the Eva's previously suppressed consciousness -- her own soul -- coming to the fore. It's a ... Jungian thing.

chee
EGF Hate Machine
EGF Hate Machine
User avatar
Age: 31
Posts: 3337
Joined: Jul 16, 2007

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby chee » Wed Dec 07, 2011 8:52 pm

Jeff Goldlbum.

Alaska Slim
Frigus Ignoramus
Frigus Ignoramus
User avatar
Posts: 4887
Joined: Oct 08, 2007
Location: The Land Up Over
Gender: Male

Roland Emmerich be damned. Bl

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Alaska Slim » Wed Dec 07, 2011 9:01 pm

^ No, Will Smith (the pilot) was the dominant one there.
"It's all fun and games till one of you gets my foot up your ass." - FofR, TrivialBeing.net Webmaster

"I blame teenage girls for everything." - Dr. Dave

"God is in his Heaven, and free men walk upon the Earth" - Rev. Robert Sirico, President of the Acton Institute

Bagheera
Banned
User avatar
Posts: 18626
Joined: Oct 15, 2010

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Bagheera » Wed Dec 07, 2011 9:20 pm

View Original PostReichu wrote:But, as we've seen, a synch rate that's too high results in the pilot dissolving and the Eva's previously suppressed consciousness -- her own soul -- coming to the fore. It's a ... Jungian thing.


Though I do wonder if that's as much to do with Shinji as it is with Eva mechanics. What would happen if a stronger personality was at the controls? Let's say Yui was there, and Shinji was the soul of the Eva. Would she be absorbed, or would we get something more like what we see with Asuka and Kyoko in EoE?

So many unanswered questions due to small sample size . . . :sigh:
For my post-3I fic, go here.
The law doesn't protect people. People protect the law. -- Akane Tsunemori, Psycho-Pass
People's deaths are to be mourned. The ability to save people should be celebrated. Life itself should be exalted. -- Volken Macmani, Tatakau Shisho: The Book of Bantorra
I hate myself. But maybe I can learn to love myself. Maybe it's okay for me to be here! That's right! I'm me, nothing more, nothing less! I'm me. I want to be me! I want to be here! And it's okay for me to be here! -- Shinji Ikari, Neon Genesis Evangelion
Yes, I know. You thought it would be something about Asuka. You're such idiots.

Reichu
Space-Time Teratoma
Space-Time Teratoma
Posts: 23351
Joined: Aug 21, 2004
Location: Lost in Bat Country
Gender: Female
Contact:

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Reichu » Thu Dec 08, 2011 4:50 am

View Original PostBagheera wrote:would we get something more like what we see with Asuka and Kyoko in EoE?

If Asuka had reached the legendary 400% synch ratio, I'm sure Maya would have been blathering on about it. As is, Asuka's synch rate during the Soryus' last stand is 'whatever fans want to believe it is'.

It's probably simplest to say that the same thing as in 19 didn't happen because Asuka simply didn't cruise to 400%. Though for all we know the Third Branch designed safety features to guard against this, after what happened to Yui. And it wouldn't have serviced the plot for Asuka to go to 400% anyway, since I'm the only person who would have cared if Kyoko went all nature special and started ripping shit apart. :tongue:

bobbyfischer's ghost
Test Subject
Test Subject
User avatar
Age: 27
Posts: 2960
Joined: Aug 20, 2011
Location: Riverside, CA
Gender: Male
Contact:

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby bobbyfischer's ghost » Fri Dec 09, 2011 11:30 am

I think it's 50/50 between the pilot and the soul.
Current avatar: Shotoku in winter
"Political Correctness is Fascism pretending to be Manners." ~ George Carlin
Wilt Chamberlain answers the infamous question.

AshPhoenix
Clockiel
Clockiel
User avatar
Age: 22
Posts: 433
Joined: Nov 28, 2010
Location: White Moon
Gender: Male

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby AshPhoenix » Thu Dec 15, 2011 5:05 pm

View Original PostBagheera wrote:Though I do wonder if that's as much to do with Shinji as it is with Eva mechanics. What would happen if a stronger personality was at the controls? Let's say Yui was there, and Shinji was the soul of the Eva. Would she be absorbed, or would we get something more like what we see with Asuka and Kyoko in EoE?

At the point where he dissolved, though, I think that Shinji had the resolve necessary where his personality could be considered powerful. He knew what he wanted, and he would have gone through hell to get it done. I do think that what you said is true, though (that the strength of the pilot and soul is a factor in determining sync ratio).

To reply to what you asked, I would think that it would depend on the resolve of the pilot. Like I said, I think that Shinji achieved such a high sync ratio because of his resolve to not let anybody else die; if Yui had such great resolve, she may have been absorbed as well. (Although it would be kind of strange to imagine. Shinji emerging from the depths of the Eva to grant Yui's wish in a badass manner? -o-; )
Ritsuko: It can't be...an Angel devoured an Eva? That's impossible!
Maya: That's strange. The target's identification signal is turning into Zerogouki's!
~Once again proving...you are what you eat.~

(After adding something sexual to a perfectly normal post) "Fixed." --Apparently everybody on this forum.
It is unnerving to be proven wrong, particularly when you are really right and the person who is really wrong is the one who is proving you wrong and proving himself, wrongly, right. Right?

Reptile
Embryo
User avatar
Age: 28
Posts: 19
Joined: Jan 02, 2012
Gender: Male

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Reptile » Tue Jan 03, 2012 1:44 pm

''Your evas and i are composed of the very same matter, born from Adam i can synchronize with it easily as long as there is no dominant soul, and Unit 02's soul is now hiding itself'' as said by Kaworu as he is descending to Terminal Dogma, i'm re-watching Death and Rebirth and i just thought this might help a bit, basically Kyoko (Eva-02's soul) is dormant, so Kaworu can easily take control.
I told you about tumbling down, i warned you bro.

r0ach
Adam
User avatar
Age: 29
Posts: 64
Joined: Dec 11, 2010
Location: cinci
Gender: Male

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby r0ach » Fri Jan 06, 2012 11:10 pm

it's not that important
but i wish it had gone into why kyoko's soul was hiding itself

Yui seemed to have the right idea, not hiding her soul in unit-01. making it easier for Shinji to synch and whatnot

kyoko is totally a bad mom
"I knew a girl........... had a dozen guys. One of them found out about it, beat her up so bad she ended up in a hospital on Guerrero street."~ Mark

Bagheera
Banned
User avatar
Posts: 18626
Joined: Oct 15, 2010

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Bagheera » Sat Jan 07, 2012 5:45 am

View Original Postr0ach wrote:it's not that important
but i wish it had gone into why kyoko's soul was hiding itself


Arael. She wasn't hiding beforehand -- Asuka was just too closed off to reach her (see the elevator scene).

kyoko is totally a bad mom


You try reaching out when your soul's been cut in half.
For my post-3I fic, go here.
The law doesn't protect people. People protect the law. -- Akane Tsunemori, Psycho-Pass
People's deaths are to be mourned. The ability to save people should be celebrated. Life itself should be exalted. -- Volken Macmani, Tatakau Shisho: The Book of Bantorra
I hate myself. But maybe I can learn to love myself. Maybe it's okay for me to be here! That's right! I'm me, nothing more, nothing less! I'm me. I want to be me! I want to be here! And it's okay for me to be here! -- Shinji Ikari, Neon Genesis Evangelion
Yes, I know. You thought it would be something about Asuka. You're such idiots.

r0ach
Adam
User avatar
Age: 29
Posts: 64
Joined: Dec 11, 2010
Location: cinci
Gender: Male

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby r0ach » Sat Jan 07, 2012 5:10 pm

View Original PostBagheera wrote:Arael. She wasn't hiding beforehand -- Asuka was just too closed off to reach her (see the elevator scene).



You try reaching out when your soul's been cut in half.




At that point was her soul really still split? I kind of thought that the crazy part of her soul that hung itself ended up in unit-02 at some point?

It seems to me that the souls in the Evas are capable of quite a bit. Yui seemed to have no problem taking control of things when things got too out of hand. I know his scores were good for a first timer, but Yui had a pretty hand in that first battle, considering Shinji really had no idea how to pilot at that point. It seems like maybe Kyoko could probably do the same for Asuka when Asuka got really down. Keep in mind, for a tiny bit she was messed up, but still synching to her Eva somewhat. Maybe her soul is too battle-torn and messed up. I dunno.
"I knew a girl........... had a dozen guys. One of them found out about it, beat her up so bad she ended up in a hospital on Guerrero street."~ Mark

Bagheera
Banned
User avatar
Posts: 18626
Joined: Oct 15, 2010

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Bagheera » Sat Jan 07, 2012 5:20 pm

View Original Postr0ach wrote:At that point was her soul really still split? I kind of thought that the crazy part of her soul that hung itself ended up in unit-02 at some point?


That's been theorized, but we have no way of knowing whether or not it happened, nor even if such is possible. Additionally, actually doing that would be a very bad idea (putting the fragmented soul of a deranged woman in the most powerful weapon on Earth? Yeah, good idea that . . . )

It seems to me that the souls in the Evas are capable of quite a bit. Yui seemed to have no problem taking control of things when things got too out of hand. I know his scores were good for a first timer, but Yui had a pretty hand in that first battle, considering Shinji really had no idea how to pilot at that point. It seems like maybe Kyoko could probably do the same for Asuka when Asuka got really down. Keep in mind, for a tiny bit she was messed up, but still synching to her Eva somewhat. Maybe her soul is too battle-torn and messed up. I dunno.


It was cut in half, dude. It's not the same situation at all. I'm sure what's left of Kyoko really wants to help, but there's only so much she can do when most of her isn't there.
For my post-3I fic, go here.
The law doesn't protect people. People protect the law. -- Akane Tsunemori, Psycho-Pass
People's deaths are to be mourned. The ability to save people should be celebrated. Life itself should be exalted. -- Volken Macmani, Tatakau Shisho: The Book of Bantorra
I hate myself. But maybe I can learn to love myself. Maybe it's okay for me to be here! That's right! I'm me, nothing more, nothing less! I'm me. I want to be me! I want to be here! And it's okay for me to be here! -- Shinji Ikari, Neon Genesis Evangelion
Yes, I know. You thought it would be something about Asuka. You're such idiots.

Chuckman
Chuckman
Chuckman
User avatar
Age: 36
Posts: 8891
Joined: Nov 11, 2011
Location: Chuckman

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Chuckman » Sat Jan 07, 2012 9:21 pm

This verges on pure conjecture but I've always assumed that Asuka's bragging about the production model being more difficult to synch with was correct. If some sort of safety mechanism designed to prevent absorption caused Kyoko's soul to be fragmented by the process, it may have also dulled her ability to reach Asuka and prevented berserking.

That would make her end even more cruel, since she could have berserked and kicked all the harpies' asses, but her Eva was simply designed not to let her.

It makes me wonder if the SEELE monoliths didn't end one of their meetings with "Also, I'd like to file a motion of 'screw with that German bitch some more'."
the prophecy is true

Statistical fact: Cops will never pull over a man with a huge bong in his car. Why? They fear this man. They know he sees further than they and he will bind them with ancient logics. —Marty Mikalski

Bagheera
Banned
User avatar
Posts: 18626
Joined: Oct 15, 2010

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Bagheera » Sat Jan 07, 2012 9:58 pm

View Original PostChuckman wrote:This verges on pure conjecture but I've always assumed that Asuka's bragging about the production model being more difficult to synch with was correct. If some sort of safety mechanism designed to prevent absorption caused Kyoko's soul to be fragmented by the process, it may have also dulled her ability to reach Asuka and prevented berserking.


Unlikely, since it did go berserk at the end. Too late, of course, but still.

That would make her end even more cruel, since she could have berserked and kicked all the harpies' asses, but her Eva was simply designed not to let her.


No, the Lances ensured that she never had a chance. If she were a legitimate threat they would have just taken off and speared her earlier. Same if Shinji showed up, far as that goes.

It makes me wonder if the SEELE monoliths didn't end one of their meetings with "Also, I'd like to file a motion of 'screw with that German bitch some more'."


Entirely possible.

I'm only half joking.
For my post-3I fic, go here.
The law doesn't protect people. People protect the law. -- Akane Tsunemori, Psycho-Pass
People's deaths are to be mourned. The ability to save people should be celebrated. Life itself should be exalted. -- Volken Macmani, Tatakau Shisho: The Book of Bantorra
I hate myself. But maybe I can learn to love myself. Maybe it's okay for me to be here! That's right! I'm me, nothing more, nothing less! I'm me. I want to be me! I want to be here! And it's okay for me to be here! -- Shinji Ikari, Neon Genesis Evangelion
Yes, I know. You thought it would be something about Asuka. You're such idiots.


Return to “Evangelion Discussion”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest