Alternate Reality in Episode 26

[1731298478]

Regarding the original question, I just remembered this comment from Shinji Miyadai intended for a US presentation two years ago with Hiroki Azuma:

When I had dinner with [Anno], he revealed to me that he “originally wanted to shoot a ‘school drama’ post-armageddon (World War III.)” Toward the end of the TV series Evangelion, there is a “dream sequence” using the framework of the school drama. Anno stated that “that part was supposed to be the body of the story.” In fact, since Anno was in the state of depression just before the production, the part on the armageddon expanded and the whole story became an “Oedipal drama with the armageddon in the background.” But in its initial conception, the armageddon (World War III) was required to set up a “school as a paradise,” much like the stage for the dating simulation game Tokimeki Memorial. That is what Anno said.

While I don't doubt that Azuma is right about there being some work which served as an inspiration for the "parallel world" sequence, it seems that, according to Miyadai's account, the concept of that world was part of Eva's original intention. In that case, the "parallel world" sequence was not originally conceived of as a parody.

I don't see why they'd cut their habits down when making Eva. And they didn't, I remember Number-kun translated some Anno interview a while ago where he was discussing one Eva doujinshi with its author (saying he could never depict Asuka's issues as a girl with mestruation as well as she did IIRC)

That author was Nobi Nobita aka Nariko Enomoto, and actually there is an article written by Patrick Galbraith where he claims that Anno actually used elements from one of her works in the "theatrical versions of the series" (I was about to write EoE, since her interview with Anno took place just before that, but I wonder if he means Rebuild?). Anyway, it's surely far from impossible that Anno would do something along the lines Azuma indicated.

Edit: Want to think more about other comments.

[gwern]

I'm not sure how seriously to take that 2003 Azuma quote about NGE & moe. It's not like he said anything similar in his other interviews or essays...

...there's GENERATIONS of otaku?

Oh sure. Toshio Okada criticizes quite harshly otaku from the '90s and 2000s (and presumably this new decade as well), and he has a point - otakudom changed a great deal with the Internet and Akihibara. It's very hard to read through The Notenki Memoirs and not feel that the old-school otaku, the kind who founded conventions and Gainaxes, were quite different from modern ones. The networks and groups were just quite different.

The footnotes and capsule biographies are quite enlightening in that respect; for example, I remember there's a footnote about a renowned writing group (which reminded me extremely of that school/place in Revolutionary Girl Utena). It's hard to imagine a group like that coming into existence or even mattering in modern Japan, where would-be literateurs pour their efforts out online.

My own take on the dream world is that it was quite seriously meant - it completely destroys the in-universe thematic reason for it if it's intended as some kind of critical negative parody - but it may, accidentally, serve to illustrate Azuma's database. Isn't it interesting that in, what, 5 minutes, we get an entire stock rom-com high school suitable for spinning off as a full-fledged manga or game? That speaks of some pretty detailed stock tropes and stereotypes in the otaku database....

[busterbeam]

Gonna have to thank 1731298478 for the extra line from the Otaku Talk thing, I didn't know there was more to it.

I find Kaichiro Morikawa's ideas about otaku especially gravitating towards things normal people find awful questionable and easily argued against (as Okada did), but also kind of interesting because a less extreme version of it was said by Hiroki Azuma, namely when he went against the idea that lolicon porn leads to more real life sex crimes. He said that the real reason otaku grow to like it is because they're social outcasts and were led to believe that they're the kind of people who should be into such socially unacceptable things, that it's very rarely an extension of being attracted to real life children and not the cause of it. My initial reaction was "that's stupid" but the more I think about it I think there could be some truth to it.

[gwern]

Gonna have to thank 1731298478 for the extra line from the Otaku Talk thing, I didn't know there was more to it.

FWIW, I finally got a copy of _Little Boy_, and the whole talk is pretty long. Unfortunately, the book also includes a bunch of color pics, the original Japanese (the whole thing is bilingual), and the pages are are awfully wide, so... not entirely sure how I'm going to scan it without breaking the spine.

[Fireand'chutes77]

FWIW, I finally got a copy of _Little Boy_, and the whole talk is pretty long. Unfortunately, the book also includes a bunch of color pics, the original Japanese (the whole thing is bilingual), and the pages are are awfully wide, so... not entirely sure how I'm going to scan it without breaking the spine.

Take pictures with a digital camera, and use some way to avoid glare?

[gwern]

I've done that before, but the results are always pretty shitty. (Without using one of those specialty book cradles/mounts, anyway.)

[soul.assassin]

Coincidentally, there is a thread where AS members debate over as to whether anime has changed or not, in the light of the expending moe trend:

http://forums.animesuki.com/showthread.php?t=108520

Of late, I myself preferred an open-minded approach to what I wanted to watch, trying to taste anything on the smorgasbord, and at the same time attempt to study as to why moe has gained ascendancy with Japanese fans in the face of criticism, especially with Western fans who are sharply-divided; some argue that quality has fell down, but others felt there's more variety than before, a lot to choose from.

Going back to the topic at hand, I myself have yet to see the average Japanese fan's abode, especially his room, to see if he's a perfectly normal individual. I mean, some Western fans, having seen an "extremist's" room filled with moe-themed merchandise from top to bottom, found themselves disgusted with the so-called otaku excesses that they started blaming moe and its supporters for the purported downfall in "quality", and began lionizing pre-Eva anime that are devoted to the historical (Kenshin), to "realistic" and "non-moe" character designs (LoGH, Macross, Gundam), and to the complex (Ghost in the Shell, Akira, Lain?), and supporting industry figureheads who are said to be critical of moe (which is why, unlike the Japanese fanbase who seem to be open-minded and well-entertained with almost any type of anime, MAL is divided into several factions).

What I found more deplorable is the prevailing narrow-mindedness of some fans, much like religious factions divided over their beliefs and other matters of faith.

[gwern]

I have, at long last, transcribed the entire damn thing: http://www.gwern.net/docs/2004-okada

Enjoy.

[Henry Spencer]

You have to take it with a grain of salt, I suppose. Early on, Touji and Kensuke comment on how "sexy" the character that was supposed to be eerie was. Even though they still tried to make her unnerving.