Roose Bolton's bastard son Ramsay Bolton betrayed the rest of the Northern army outside Winterfell, killed all the Ironborn men, took Theon hostage and burns Winterfell to ground... blaming it all on Theon.
They haven't really explained it well in the TV show, but that's how it happened in the books but we don't really know if they'll go along with that.
House of the Undying in the book was way more awesome. Dany wanders around this giant mansion always going to the right, always taking the door on the right. She witnesses some really disturbing imagery, and also hears someone recite the "Song of Ice and Fire." She eventually meets "the Undying", first some imposters, then some others who seem like the real deal. It was far more interesting.
The TV version basically cut out everything, and just threw it into the show with as little effort as possible. Also, why cut out the part of the "Song of Ice and Fire"? That's the name of the entire book series. Don't they think that's important?
Overall, season 2 was a giant wad of shit.
_________________ Awesomely Shitty
-"That purace has more badassu maddafaakas zan supermax spaceland."
-On EMF, as a thread becomes longer, the likelihood that fem-Kaworu will be mentioned increases exponentially.
-the only English language novel actually being developed in parallel to its Japanese version involving a pan-human Soviet in a galactic struggle to survive and to export the communist utopia/revolution to all the down trodden alien class and race- one of the premise being that Khrushchev remains and has abandoned Lysenko stupidity
Out of curiosity, do you have any criticisms of Season 2 that don't boil down to "They Changed It, Now It Sucks"?
_________________ -- Rachel K. Clark (a.k.a. "Reichu") Avatar: Shinji's mummy Shinji needs to be cool like Kaji and grow some melons. -Dr. Nick I shall file this under things that were never given much thought by the production team. -Anonymous_Evafan Farmer Hoggett knew that little ideas that tickled and nagged and refused to go away should never be ignored, for in them lie the seeds of destiny. -Narrator, "Babe"
Out of curiosity, do you have any criticisms of Season 2 that don't boil down to "They Changed It, Now It Sucks"?
I know it sounds like I'm mad about "they changed it, now it sucks" but that really isn't the case.
In principle I don't care that they changed it. What makes me mad is that a lot of the changes they did make ended up giving the incredible story the shaft.
Some changes were good: Arya and Tywin's scenes, someone stealing Dany's dragons in order to give her something to do, for example.
But most of the changes were to fill up the running time with tedium whether it is gratuitous sex, mind-numbingly dull conversations, or pointless scenes which do nothing to propel the story forward.
Some changes were made inexplicably. Like the shortening of the stuff in the House of the Undying. There is no reason they could not have stuck with what was originally there. The changes they made make absolutely no sense. They cut out most of it for what purpose? Budget? Clearly they had a massive budget given the previous episode, unless they blew it all on that episode, which means the people handling the show aren't thinking ahead very well.
There were a lot of changes in the first season, too, but I liked the first season a lot. They excised the unnecessary crap, and focused on what worked.
The second season, they excised stuff that worked and often times replaced it with crap. That's my biggest issue with season 2.
_________________ Awesomely Shitty
-"That purace has more badassu maddafaakas zan supermax spaceland."
-On EMF, as a thread becomes longer, the likelihood that fem-Kaworu will be mentioned increases exponentially.
-the only English language novel actually being developed in parallel to its Japanese version involving a pan-human Soviet in a galactic struggle to survive and to export the communist utopia/revolution to all the down trodden alien class and race- one of the premise being that Khrushchev remains and has abandoned Lysenko stupidity
My only real complaint so far of this season is that they took out "Sam the Slayer" but found time for all this nonsense about Pod's amazing hypno-dick or whatever.
_________________ "IGNORE ME!"- The Galactic Inquisitor Evangelion is "the equivalent of throwing an Abnormal Psych textbook into a woodchipper, gathering up the little scraps, and pasting them together with robot violence and flaming airborne crosses."- Wax Banks
_________________ Your primary source of one-note, watered-down, vapid nothingness on EGF.
"Everything has its beauty but not everyone sees it." - Confucius
"All styles are good except the tiresome kind." - Voltaire
wait for what? you can't spoil me, I've read all 5 books and the dunk/egg tales.
_________________ "IGNORE ME!"- The Galactic Inquisitor Evangelion is "the equivalent of throwing an Abnormal Psych textbook into a woodchipper, gathering up the little scraps, and pasting them together with robot violence and flaming airborne crosses."- Wax Banks
Well, it's not exactly a cult in the way we'd think of them... they do have good evidence that the red god exists and has influence on the world, so it's not crazy or faith-based. Baric Dondarian has died and been reborn multiple times since his assignment in the riverlands, with witnesses. Also they neglected to mention that as a knight Dondarian has taken the liberty to hand out titles of knighthood to many of his followers, so they aren't just swineherds as The Dog suggests (and he isn't a knight... Sandor refused to take the vows because his brother did, so technically these pauper knights all are on a social rank above him).
_________________ "IGNORE ME!"- The Galactic Inquisitor Evangelion is "the equivalent of throwing an Abnormal Psych textbook into a woodchipper, gathering up the little scraps, and pasting them together with robot violence and flaming airborne crosses."- Wax Banks
My only real complaint so far of this season is that they took out "Sam the Slayer" but found time for all this nonsense about Pod's amazing hypno-dick or whatever.
Whatever gives a chance for Tyrion/Bronn interaction, I'm always up for that; don't mind a bit if it has to do with Pod's galaxy penis. Tyrion and Bronn are by far the most amusing characters on the show, possibly only rivaled by Littlefinger and Varys.
In other news, another episode where that dick Joffrey hasn't bit it yet; I long for the day Khaleesi gives him a "crown" like the one her brother received.
_________________ Anime and manga unite us all. Much better than the Olympics. - Carl Horn |11.30.2004.
"As of this moment, we are changing from soldiers to pirates!" - Captain Jeffrey Wilder (Macross Frontier #22) ------------------------------------------------- I liked the part of the thread where Asuka became a real person reading these posts. Makes me want to serioulsy respond to every statement with "What would Kaworu do?" -- FreakyFilmFan4ever
Let's cut the bullshit, the AT Field is basically magic. -- AuraTwilight
Holy shit, fucking 80s music making me all mushy inside. --Fireball
I see Sadamoto still is indulging in his 'I'll only draw one eye and let's everyone pretend the bangs really do cover up the missing eye!' --gwern
Tyrion and Bronn are by far the most amusing characters on the show, possibly only rivaled by Littlefinger and Varys.
In other news, another episode where that dick Joffrey hasn't bit it yet; I long for the day Khaleesi gives him a "crown" like the one her brother received.
I do enjoy the witty dialogues that spawn whenever Tyrion, Bronn, Littlefinger or Varys are on screen but Tywin is quickly becoming one of my favorite characters, can't wait to see what he'll do when he finds out what happened to his son. This season also managed to get me interested in Daenerys, I never quite liked the scenes out of Westeros mostly due to my lack of interest in her character.
Yeah, as much as I want to like the Kahaleesi plot line it constantly suffers from being on the sidelines, always threatening to become relevant to the rest of the story but never quite delivering. If anything it seems to keep absorbing people who fall off the radar in the main story, growing more ponderous and bloated with each book and still not going anywhere.
It's a problem of pacing in the books overall. They stay entertaining by continuously cranking out more and more side plots, introducing more characters and killing them and the old ones off just as fast as they appear, but the big storyline everyone is waiting for refuse to progress. It gets to the point where books 4 and 5 happen simultaneously following different groups of characters because there's just too damn much going on to fit it all in one title. Dany is still off in the middle of nowhere talking about what she's gonna do but not doing it and the Watch are driving themselves nuts getting ready for the Others who too busy being mysterious to actually do anything, so there's nothing stopping everyone else from just fucking around endlessly... all the while seeming rather pointless because when the other shoe finally drops everything else will immediately cease to matter.
To my mind GoT is basically a particularly murder-y version of musical chairs, except there's only ever been one chair, new players keep joining while the game's in progress and the music may never actually end.
_________________ "IGNORE ME!"- The Galactic Inquisitor Evangelion is "the equivalent of throwing an Abnormal Psych textbook into a woodchipper, gathering up the little scraps, and pasting them together with robot violence and flaming airborne crosses."- Wax Banks
Man, I love how much Jaime has grown on me and Tywin is absolute BOSS. He needs his own spinoff, where he just goes around giving verbal smackdowns to every man, woman and child.
Also that guy torturing Theon is one hilarious sick fuck.
Well, it's not exactly a cult in the way we'd think of them... they do have good evidence that the red god exists and has influence on the world, so it's not crazy or faith-based.
They have evidence that fire magic works. All GoT/ASoIaF magic works on the principle of sacrifice. You give up something for something else. It's all very nebulous beyond that. GRRM obviously draws a lot of influence from Robert E. Howard (the tale of the Night's King is likely inspired by "The Frost Giant's Daughter") and religion and magic come off in a very sword-and-sandals, pulpy way in his world. It's nebulous, fickle, dangerous, and ultimately uncontrollable.
If any gods exist,
There are actual for real spoilers in here, not pictures of cartoon boobs Spoiler:
it's the old gods, who are literally the weirwood trees.
Re: Pacing problems- GRRM started out as a TV writer. He started writing the books to escape the limitations imposed by the television format. The influences from that are still pretty clear- his world is basically a huge, sprawling soap opera and follows a lot of the same conventions and thus tends to meander. Melodramas with vast casts tend to be hard to bring together in the end, and he set up a problem in the first book- the issue of the dragon's aging vs. the presumably more rapid advance of the Others.
not gods, just psychics. And most of the weirwood faces across Westeros were carved by the first men, not true faces of those who have grown into the trees.
_________________ "IGNORE ME!"- The Galactic Inquisitor Evangelion is "the equivalent of throwing an Abnormal Psych textbook into a woodchipper, gathering up the little scraps, and pasting them together with robot violence and flaming airborne crosses."- Wax Banks
I know how hugely popular the TV adaptation is, but is it really worth the time? I mean, as a sort of long-time reader of ASOIAF I didn't mind the first series of GOT but couldn't be bothered to continue with more. Far too contented with the books, maybe.
As an aside, when the flying fuck will The Winds of Winter drop? I really hope we don't have another 6+ years wait on our hands. GRRM should've kept the tentative title of A Time for Wolves for the final instalment too. That sounded too fuckin' badass man...
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