Moments where you hated characters you usually like

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Postby NemZ » Tue Sep 06, 2011 6:53 pm

No, she was cryptic as hell on the drive over and did almost everything she could to fill him with doubt about this whole affair from getting lost in her own base to talking about the remote chance the unit will work right in front of him. Nobody tells him the true stakes involved. Nobody says anything the least bit reassuring. Nobody really asks him anything, they just alternate between telling him what he's going to do and talking over him like he isn't in the room.
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Postby Bagheera » Tue Sep 06, 2011 7:36 pm

View Original PostNemZ wrote:No, she was cryptic as hell on the drive over and did almost everything she could to fill him with doubt about this whole affair from getting lost in her own base to talking about the remote chance the unit will work right in front of him. Nobody tells him the true stakes involved. Nobody says anything the least bit reassuring. Nobody really asks him anything, they just alternate between telling him what he's going to do and talking over him like he isn't in the room.


Mmmm. What part of "This is humanity's last chance" was unclear, then? It was Ritsuko who said it, but claiming nobody told him the stakes is inaccurate. Elaboration would have been helpful, yes, and it should have happened sooner rather than later, but it's not like he had no inkling of the stakes involved from day one.

And really, when you have a big giant monster stomping around after getting nuked the stakes kinda speak for themselves.
For my post-3I fic, go here.
The law doesn't protect people. People protect the law. -- Akane Tsunemori, Psycho-Pass
People's deaths are to be mourned. The ability to save people should be celebrated. Life itself should be exalted. -- Volken Macmani, Tatakau Shisho: The Book of Bantorra
I hate myself. But maybe I can learn to love myself. Maybe it's okay for me to be here! That's right! I'm me, nothing more, nothing less! I'm me. I want to be me! I want to be here! And it's okay for me to be here! -- Shinji Ikari, Neon Genesis Evangelion
Yes, I know. You thought it would be something about Asuka. You're such idiots.

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Postby NemZ » Tue Sep 06, 2011 10:25 pm

View Original PostBagheera wrote:What part of "This is humanity's last chance" was unclear, then?


I actually thought that was a 'creative translation' for the dub. In the text script I'm looking at she refers to 01 as humanity's trump card, which doesn't have the same implication of impending doom.
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Postby Bagheera » Thu Sep 08, 2011 9:08 am

View Original PostNemZ wrote:I actually thought that was a 'creative translation' for the dub. In the text script I'm looking at she refers to 01 as humanity's trump card, which doesn't have the same implication of impending doom.


Except the Eva isn't a trump card. A trump card is something you expect will work, and even assure victory, and that couldn't be farther from the truth with Eva. I don't know how the original Japanese was supposed to be translated but "Humanity's last chance" fits the situation far better than "Humanity's trump card" does.

But again, the giant monster stomping around killing people kinda speaks for itself. The fact that they even bothered to call Shinji, rather than use a trained professional for the task, also speaks volumes. Misato doesn't have to spell it out to get the point across.

(FWIW I was referring to a fansub, not the dub; I avoid the dub like the plague if I can help it. I bring this up mainly to note that others have also translated it as "Humanity's last chance".)
For my post-3I fic, go here.
The law doesn't protect people. People protect the law. -- Akane Tsunemori, Psycho-Pass
People's deaths are to be mourned. The ability to save people should be celebrated. Life itself should be exalted. -- Volken Macmani, Tatakau Shisho: The Book of Bantorra
I hate myself. But maybe I can learn to love myself. Maybe it's okay for me to be here! That's right! I'm me, nothing more, nothing less! I'm me. I want to be me! I want to be here! And it's okay for me to be here! -- Shinji Ikari, Neon Genesis Evangelion
Yes, I know. You thought it would be something about Asuka. You're such idiots.

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Postby CJD » Thu Sep 08, 2011 11:00 am

View Original PostBagheera wrote:Misato doesn't have to spell it out to get the point across.


Remember who we're talking about here.

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Postby NemZ » Thu Sep 08, 2011 2:22 pm

View Original PostBagheera wrote:Except the Eva isn't a trump card. A trump card is something you expect will work, and even assure victory, and that couldn't be farther from the truth with Eva.


Gendo certainly thinks it is, and it has to be if all they need Shinji to do is get in. Most of the angels would probably reflexively shit themselves on merely seeing the color purple after their encounters with it.
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Postby Razeil100 » Thu Sep 08, 2011 3:05 pm

When Shinji is in Unit 01's cage in EoE.

He had so completely given up on everything it was frustrating.
Previously, he'd always snap out of his funk and pilot if it meant protecting someone, but he couldn't even do that then.

I understand his situation there was the absolute lowest someone could be, so I guess I can't really say its completely unjustified. Plus, the Bakelite, but I don't remember the entry plug being covered and he could have broken out of it if he'd tried.
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Postby SaVaGe » Thu Sep 08, 2011 8:55 pm

View Original PostXard wrote:Keeping in mind how Anno felt he had fucked up Rei's arc with that scene by having her and Shinji succesfully, truly communicated at the scene it's hard to see how "smiling at imaginary Gendo" would be feasible. This is first time I've heard anyone interprept it like that to be honest. The Gendo flashback comes at the moment when Rei is pondering on Shinji's words "you should smile" and after the flashback the camera pulls kind of "ah, I understand" realization trick common in anime. If I remember Rei even blinked and/or gasped there, further keys that usually signify realization when done like this.

There's enough time pass between that moment and her smile anyway to make it somewhat strenuous :shrug:


I didn't know the bold. I suppose I am wrong. My mistake.

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Postby Bagheera » Fri Sep 09, 2011 10:02 am

View Original PostNemZ wrote:Gendo certainly thinks it is, and it has to be if all they need Shinji to do is get in.


What does Gendo have to do with it? Ritsuko didn't think that, and Misato didn't even really know what was going on herself at that point (remember that she didn't know what was in NERV's basement either until Kaji showed her).
For my post-3I fic, go here.
The law doesn't protect people. People protect the law. -- Akane Tsunemori, Psycho-Pass
People's deaths are to be mourned. The ability to save people should be celebrated. Life itself should be exalted. -- Volken Macmani, Tatakau Shisho: The Book of Bantorra
I hate myself. But maybe I can learn to love myself. Maybe it's okay for me to be here! That's right! I'm me, nothing more, nothing less! I'm me. I want to be me! I want to be here! And it's okay for me to be here! -- Shinji Ikari, Neon Genesis Evangelion
Yes, I know. You thought it would be something about Asuka. You're such idiots.

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Postby Kendrix » Fri Sep 09, 2011 11:58 am

Well, I wouldn't say "hated", but many characters, most of all Shinji, have there moments where you just wanna shout at them and tell them to do/say something.
It's the painful dramatic irony of knowing how the characters feel and seeing how they're unable to tell it to others. That technique always gets me.
But then again, it's an intended part of the experience.
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Postby Sachi » Fri Sep 09, 2011 2:17 pm

View Original PostRazeil100 wrote:Plus, the Bakelite, but I don't remember the entry plug being covered and he could have broken out of it if he'd tried.

I doubt it. The bakelite is designed to keep the Evangelions restrained, exactly as it did with Unit-00 during the first activation test. No matter how much Shinji wanted it, he would not have been able to break out of the bakelite. It's supposed to be an awesome moment when we see Unit-01 break out of the bakelite on its own and push Shinji to make an action.
Last edited by Sachi on Sat Sep 10, 2011 2:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Final Messenger » Fri Sep 09, 2011 2:55 pm

I don’t like Rei when she gets in the way (yes I know that is very cryptic)
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Postby NemZ » Fri Sep 09, 2011 2:59 pm

View Original PostBagheera wrote:What does Gendo have to do with it? Ritsuko didn't think that


But she's the one who said that all they expected of him was to get in, so clearly she had some idea of what might happen. Almost certainly something Gendo rubbed off on her, so to speak.
Rest In Peace ~ 1978 - 2017
"I'd consider myself a realist, alright? but in philosophical terms I'm what's called a pessimist. It means I'm bad at parties." - Rust Cohle
"Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize that half of 'em are stupider than that." - George Carlin
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Postby Bagheera » Fri Sep 09, 2011 5:59 pm

View Original PostNemZ wrote:But she's the one who said that all they expected of him was to get in, so clearly she had some idea of what might happen. Almost certainly something Gendo rubbed off on her, so to speak.


Well she was fucking him at the time, so I guess that was inevitable.
For my post-3I fic, go here.
The law doesn't protect people. People protect the law. -- Akane Tsunemori, Psycho-Pass
People's deaths are to be mourned. The ability to save people should be celebrated. Life itself should be exalted. -- Volken Macmani, Tatakau Shisho: The Book of Bantorra
I hate myself. But maybe I can learn to love myself. Maybe it's okay for me to be here! That's right! I'm me, nothing more, nothing less! I'm me. I want to be me! I want to be here! And it's okay for me to be here! -- Shinji Ikari, Neon Genesis Evangelion
Yes, I know. You thought it would be something about Asuka. You're such idiots.

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Postby Fireand'chutes77 » Fri Sep 09, 2011 10:53 pm

But she's the one who said that all they expected of him was to get in, so clearly she had some idea of what might happen. Almost certainly something Gendo rubbed off on her, so to speak.
View Original PostBagheera wrote:Well she was fucking him at the time, so I guess that was inevitable.

So one could say it got rubbed into her, eh? ;)
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Postby NemZ » Sat Sep 10, 2011 12:27 am

G: "Ughhh."
R: "..."
G: "Now make me a sandwich and go do some science. No crust."
R: "..."
G: "..."
R: "..."
G: "...Ritzipoo."
R: "That's better."
Rest In Peace ~ 1978 - 2017
"I'd consider myself a realist, alright? but in philosophical terms I'm what's called a pessimist. It means I'm bad at parties." - Rust Cohle
"Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize that half of 'em are stupider than that." - George Carlin
"The internet: It's like a training camp for never amounting to anything." - Oglaf
"I think internet message boards and the like are dangerous." - Anno

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Postby Mr. Tines » Sat Sep 10, 2011 2:22 am

Ahem.

sudo get me some topic
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Postby Knuckles » Sun Sep 11, 2011 12:46 pm

The prevalent theme of Hedgehog's Dilemma bothered me to no end in this series. Towards the end when everyone is going to shit and no one knows how to help or accept help from anyone else, I started getting really bothered with most of the characters I enjoy.

Rei starts to show more and more human-like emotion towards Shinji, realizes she's lonely and she desires to be with Shinji, blows up.

Misato comes face to face with the fact that she's lonely and has a daddy complex, tries to sex up Shinji and gets denied, does it later anyways when he hates himself even more (although it actually helped, until oops she bled in his mouth), blows up.

Shinji grows closer to everyone, only to let everyone die cause of Touji-wank, scared to be near Rei (III) anymore, scared of Misato possibly from a mix of him being scared of her tits and because of how coldly she reacted at the end of ep23, lets everyone <strike>blow up</strike> be tanged.


That's kind of why I enjoy Rebuild more, no characters have bothered me yet. Rei (potentially) being saved and that major character development at the end of 2.0 is something that never happened in the series, and I always wanted it to.
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...and I still like Shinji/Rei."

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Postby Dream » Sat Dec 10, 2011 5:30 am

I don't think i can say "hated" But i was very critical of some of Shinji's actions during the Bardiel fight.

Touji punching the pilot who saved the city as welcome gift gave me a very bad first impression of him (later he more than redeemed tough).

Altough again hate is not the right word, Shinji's self service in the hospital scene left me like "WTF!? oh, ok, alright, well.... ewww" But seriously to me that scene came absolutely from nowhere.
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Postby SAWgunner » Sat Dec 10, 2011 1:12 pm

Shinji running away. I don't need to elaborate, we all know the scenes. It's not that I don't understand where he's coming and even identify with him to some extent, but I come from a military background where one simply does not abandon your buddies/the mission under any circumstances. I identify with his feelings of wanting to run away but not the actual act of doing so. I have to remind myself that he's 14, mentally damaged, untrained, not well integrated into his "unit", etc.
Also, in EoE. Once again, it's not that I do't know where he's coming from, and I understand that he was completely broken at that point, but I also think of all of the people that would have lived if he had been able to pull himself together; especially Misato. Not to mention he might have been in a position to stop 3I. I like Shinji but he makes it hard sometimes.

Yeah, and Rei's smile in ep. 6. Not because it did anything negative to the story, just because they drew her so fuck-all ugly.
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