Commentary: Episode 06

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Postby Sailor Star Dust » Fri Apr 22, 2011 11:23 pm

"You won't die, I will protect you." sounds self-explanatory to me, but... A mother's/parental instinct to protect her child no matter what (think "mama-bear" tendencies that Eva-01/Yui shows off) or at the cost of their own lives, is how it's mainly relevant in my mind. Since Rei serves as two mothers in one being (humanity's mother as Lilith and Shinji's mother as Yui) yet she's still her own unique person despite sharing Yui's DNA and possessing Lilith's soul.

If this is somehow beneficial to the Commentary, feel free to throw it in there. I was mainly replying to Nemz though.
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Postby NemZ » Sat Apr 23, 2011 12:45 am

Wouldn't be the first time the commentary had a spoilered side-discussion.

Anyway, as far as mothers go Lilith seems entirely apathetic, and depending on how you look at it, she eats her young. Rei only has Yui's form, not any of her memories or emotions, and even if she did have some residual instinct I'm really not getting any sort of protective vibe here, seeing as Yui essentially abandoned her child just as much as Gendo did.
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Postby Trajan » Sat Apr 23, 2011 11:10 am

It could also bee Rei's death seeker tendencies coming out again. If someone wants to die, what better way than to die saving someone else? Although it's not like she'll ever stay dead for long.
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Postby Kendrix » Mon Apr 25, 2011 9:31 pm

I think it's more Rei's initial "the orders are absolute" mentality. She is ordered to make sure he's safe, so that's what she will do.

---

Also, as I got it, the Death Seeking is something that stated with Rei III - No. II just didn't think she was valuable/didn't see a reason NOT to take risks... I'll elaborate once we hit eps 14 and 25 somewhere in the far future...
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Postby Sailor Star Dust » Tue Apr 26, 2011 1:00 pm

View Original PostNemZ wrote:Anyway, as far as mothers go Lilith seems entirely apathetic, and depending on how you look at it, she eats her young.


Not sure where you're getting "Lilith eats her young" from...And Lilith's apparent apathy COULD stem from taking an interest in her children and wanting to understand them that way.

Rei only has Yui's form, not any of her memories or emotions, and even if she did have some residual instinct


I see it as residual instinct, not anything like Rei having Yui's memories or emotions.

I'm really not getting any sort of protective vibe here, seeing as Yui essentially abandoned her child just as much as Gendo did.


Yui "abandoned" Shinji in an effort to protect him and the rest of humanity from Seele, it was a kill or be killed situation. While Rei doesn't have much regard for her own life (due to the clones and all), I still see Rei protecting Shinji (probably following orders, but still) as being literally self-less.

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@Kendrix: Cut 338 "This is, like many other things, emphasized in Rebuild, where they go as far as, for all intents and purposes, holding hands."

Shinji and Rei first held hands/Shinji pulled Rei out of the Plug in Sadamoto's manga post-Operation Yashima. Evangelion Prelude decided to use that as a manga nod, I guess. (Prelude has a few Sadamoto manga nods: Shinji's rant to Misato about how she and Nerv are selfish is similar to something Manga!Shinji told Misato after Kaworu's death.)
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Postby Kendrix » Mon May 02, 2011 6:10 am

Oh, and just so you know for the oncomming stuff, I'd be glad to help with any German that would need translation.
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Postby Captain Button » Sun May 08, 2011 10:31 am

#143 - This scene gives me a feeling that part of Shinji's reaction may be territorial jealousy because Unit 01 is HIS Eva. Rei can't play with his stuff!

I also wonder if Rei is deliberately trying to prod him in that area as a trick to get him to stop moping around. But I can't really see Rei playing that kind of head game. But I can see Dr. Akagi trying to do so indirectly.

#307 - Isn't it traditional for angels to explode when they die?
Last edited by Captain Button on Sun May 08, 2011 10:59 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Kendrix » Sun May 08, 2011 10:53 am

View Original PostCaptain Button wrote:#143 - This scene gives me a feeling that part of Shinji's reaction may be territorial jealousy because Unit 01 is HIS Eva. Rei can't play with his stuff!


I doubt he sees EVA 01 as "his toy" like Asuka does, he finds it very frightening and calls it a beast once - It's more that he feels useless and lost when stuff works out perfectly fine without him. His Dilemma is that while he is very afraid of the battles awaiting him, on some level, he wants them to need him (so he can keep his place in Tokyo 3).
Prologue!Arc Shinji reacts with horror whenever he's told he has a choice. (see ep 4) because it means he has to chose and can't blame the consequences on "they made me do it", and, not being very confident, he's sure those consequences will be bad.
This episode is a point where he improves significantly and comes one step closer to realizing that he's stepping into that big mecha because he wants to. He isn't forced, really- Rei could do it instead. It's just that Shinji doesn't want Rei to get hurt in battle/ doesn't want to be useless/ doesn't want to lose the small home he's estasblished for himself.

As for the brainwashing thing, I think Rei is merely stating the factsof what is going to happen/ the logical consequences of Shinji's actions, and doing so quite neutrally - She doesn't say "Stay here, or do you want XY to happen?", she says "Well, then leave if you want. We'll just do XY."
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Postby Fireand'chutes77 » Thu Jun 16, 2011 1:38 am

So..... Do we have a plan to do episode #7?
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Postby KnightmareX13 » Fri Jul 01, 2011 8:55 pm

#088 - @ thewayneiac: Misato probably had to submit a preliminary report that outlines the details of the plans so Fuyutsuki has already read it, and it may even be on Gendo's desk during this scene. He could have just asked Misato for the odds just to make sure she is confident or aware of the risks.
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Postby Kendrix » Sat Feb 11, 2012 3:13 pm

Uh.... is this dead?
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Postby NemZ » Sat Feb 11, 2012 10:52 pm

Huh, never answered this...

View Original PostSailor Star Dust wrote:Not sure where you're getting "Lilith eats her young" from...


I meant that in 3I she basically ate all her descendants.
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Postby thewayneiac » Sun Feb 12, 2012 11:38 am

View Original PostKendrix wrote:Uh.... is this dead?


No, just hibernating. As always, our chief problem is finding translators.
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To do what was right.
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Postby Kendrix » Sun Feb 12, 2012 2:57 pm

But weren't you guys at least gonna reaopen the already-translated eps 1 to 4 to pass the time?
*sigh* If I had only managed to get into that Japanese course... maybe I'll have more luck in the upcomming summer semestre. Then again, while I've gotten the impression that speaking it/getting the grammar seems to be relatively easy, reading Japanese is probably a bitch/will take more than a beginner's course for me to be useful here...
And I know an eighteenth charm, and that charm is the greatest of all, and that charm I can tell to no man, for a secret that no one knows but you is the most powerful secret there can ever be.

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Postby ath » Mon Feb 13, 2012 2:26 pm

Well, we do have a translation for Episode 19, if we ever get bored enough to do the commentary out of order...

View Original PostKendrix wrote:Then again, while I've gotten the impression that speaking it/getting the grammar seems to be relatively easy, reading Japanese is probably a bitch/will take more than a beginner's course for me to be useful here...

If you're interested, we've prepared an OCR'd version of the script for Episode 7. It's still not 100% perfect, but it should be pretty reliable. I tried to translate a little of it while I was looking up kanjis to fix the OCR's mistakes, but my knowledge of the Japanese grammar was definitely not good enough (and even if it was, my English still isn't that great).
The scene descriptions looked simple enough most of the time, though.

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Postby Sailor Star Dust » Mon Feb 13, 2012 2:52 pm

View Original Postath wrote:OCR'd version of the script for Episode 7


Good lord, my Engrish on that page... :crybaby: Yeah, the more help we can get for the Commentary translation, the better.

The scene descriptions are simple from what I've noticed, but a lot of anime/film terms are batted around which can be confusing to those who aren't familiar with them.

Reichu had something of a run down here: http://evacommentary.org/about.html#a7-further

(What surprises me is Asuka's "You really are an idiot." in Episode 12 after asking Shinji why he pilots is a thought (Mono) not her speaking aloud! Then again, their backs are turned in that shot since they're on an elevator to the Evas but still.)
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Postby ath » Wed Feb 15, 2012 6:29 pm

View Original PostSailor Star Dust wrote:Good lord, my Engrish on that page... :crybaby:

Sorry about that :wink:

Anyway, we could try to translate just the scene descriptions and then use a mix of the Platinum subtitles and the LTP script for the dialogue. Most of the descriptions are relatively simple, as they're often just explaining what it's happening on screen while adding a few hints about the animation. Many of them also repeat something that's spoken (and written) in the dialogue. That was actually a big help back when I was looking up the missing kanji in the OCR output.

I'm pretty busy at the moment with my new full-time job, but once I've finished the OA/DC comparison pages I'll try to look at the script again to see if I can be of any help. Who knows, maybe I could improve my Japanese a little...

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Postby Sailor Star Dust » Wed Feb 15, 2012 10:09 pm

View Original Postath wrote:Anyway, we could try to translate just the scene descriptions and then use a mix of the Platinum subtitles and the LTP script for the dialogue.


Personally I don't think an EGF-translation of NGE is a bad thing (at any rate it's a nice alternative to Platinum as well as the horribly outdated LTP), we just need more help with translations of course.

Good to know about the description portion.
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Postby ReiAyanami25 » Thu Feb 16, 2012 2:29 am

#006- Is there a composite image available for this cut? Perhaps I should make one.
#007- Unit 01 does this in Episode 1 too. I wonder why? Perhaps it is the from the jerk of the lift stopping on its tracks.
#012- This reminds me of a welding torch.
#015- For some reason, this scream in particular has always seemed unintentionally humorous to me.
#050- Maybe this signifies the near-death state that Shinji is in, due to the already discussed 'coffin like' appearance.
#054- As I said for cut 06, is there a composite image for this?
#066- The A.T field changed somewhat. The primary shape is still the same, but it does not have the smaller hexagons inside the shape. Perhaps the A.T field's shape varies depending on the distance between the angel and the attacker, or perhaps the shape depends on the strength of the field.
#082- The maternal expression could be another hint of Rei's identity.
#084- This scene makes me wonder why Rei is visiting Shinji at all. Gendo's glasses are already telling us that she is thinking about him, so why is she present in Shinji's hospital room? She was looking at the capsule with Shinji inside, so perhaps her preferences are already beginning to lean toward Shinji. However, it seems likely that Rei may have simply been ordered to monitor Shinji, in case he regained conciousness and was released from the capsule, so she could brief him on Operation Yashima.
#253- This reminds me of the Dummy System from 2.22, the way the head gear covers his face, but in 2.22, the attachment on the seems to be purely to inhibit Shinji's chances of witnessing the carnage Unit 01 is causing outside the confines of the plug.
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Postby Deepak » Thu Apr 12, 2012 4:50 pm

can anybody link me to the full scripts of the show so I can take a crack at translating?


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