Kare Kano - his / her circumstances - yet more anno magic

A forum for discussion of other Gainax works, people belonging or related to Gainax and the non-Eva projects they've worked on, media that reference or have distinct parallels to Eva, etc.

Moderator: Board Staff

Marzan
Adam
User avatar
Posts: 84
Joined: Feb 17, 2009
Location: Prowling around Central D

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Marzan » Fri Oct 01, 2010 2:47 pm

Yeah, the manga does go completely nuts after the play arc.

For me Kare Kano is one of the very, very few anime adaptations that is superior to the source manga. Even with the last few chapters, it's just a lot more captivating on so many levels.
And everything under the Sun is in tune, but the Sun is eclipsed by the Moon- Roger Waters

"Timeo hominem unius libris"

C.A.P.
Wabbit Duelist
Wabbit Duelist
User avatar
Age: 25
Posts: 2000
Joined: Nov 25, 2010
Location: America
Gender: Male

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby C.A.P. » Sun Nov 28, 2010 12:43 pm

Regarding the last 2/3rd of the show, I agree with the majority; truly a disappointment that Tsurumaki didn't even try to do anything creative with his tenure as the director of Kare Kano. I mean, he's creative; episode 19 was actually pretty amusing that fitted Tsurmaki's style of directing, and the show still remembered that it was a even combination of inane comedy and heartful drama that made the audeince fell in love in the first place. But somewhere around episode 20 or so, you can tell Ganiax's heart wasn't with the show anymore; plotlines were beginning to drag out, that combination was starting to get uneven (they'll be some episode that's just full of comedy just to keep the attention span busier than usual, while some episodes tried to tug the heartstrings unsuccessfully), experimenting for experiment sake, a lot of old tricks in the book to pad out episodes were being used (episode 24 and 25), charterers losing their balance on what made them appealing in the first place, you get the picture. Doesn't help that the anime just ended abruptly with no definitive end in sight; "fizzed out" is an understatement.

A shame things didn't work out in the end for anyone working on it; Kare Kano was a show that needed a strong director if it was ever going to be conspicuous to the audeince's conscience. Without that vision that was imposed to the style of the show, its' true colors were reveled that Tsurmaki didn't even bother to hide; it was just another run-of-the-mill romantic anime for schoolgirls that was spectacular only because someone had his own ideas and theories he wanted to express in the genre, and when that vision disappears, there's nothing to built upon to make an momentous piece of storytelling linger in the viewers' mind for a few more episodes. That's what happened to Kero Kano; it wasn't becuase someone else was directing that the show crumbled, it was that lack of an artistic vision that doomed the show to catch the symptom of anime endings; the thought of giving upafter the oven actually starts to cook that Christmas ham you always wanted to eat.

But it's rather amusing though that the moment Anno gave up the show and left anime for a while, the show pretty much became what Tsuda feared what the anime actually was; I guess karma sometimes bites you in ass before you realized it actually bit you.
"Free-associative internet ravings know no proprietors."-Azathoth
"Cinema's value is that it is inhuman."-chee
"I only meant to stay a while."-ELO

Hyper Shinchan
God
God
User avatar
Age: 32
Posts: 4774
Joined: Aug 07, 2005
Location: Bunga Bunga Republic
Gender: Male

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Hyper Shinchan » Sun Nov 28, 2010 1:58 pm

I heard that it was the author that wanted it more closely based on the manga and for that reason they probably gave up about being creative.
Unfortunately I can't find a good source to confirm it, does anyone have one?
So let’s make a wish.
“Please let me redo again.”
No matter how many times

From the book “All About Nagisa Kaworu: A Child of Evangelion”.

Oz
Finland Miracle
Finland Miracle
User avatar
Age: 28
Posts: 4840
Joined: Aug 02, 2009
Location: Finland
Gender: Male
Contact:

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Oz » Sun Nov 28, 2010 2:08 pm

I wonder what was the mangaka's problem with the anime since it is pretty much the same thing. Anno's direction just makes it a whole lot better. Also, the manga is ridiculously bad after the point at which the anime series ended so the mangaka's opinion shouldn't even matter in any case.
"I'd really like to have as much money as you have, Oz" - robersora
"No you wouldn't. Oz's secret is he goes without food to buy that stuff. He hasn't eaten in years." - Brikhaus

"Often I get the feeling that deep down, your little girl is struggling with your embrace of filmfaggotry and your loldeep fixations, and the conflict that arises from such a contradiction is embodied pretty well in Kureha's character. But obviously it's not any sort of internal conflict that makes the analogy work. It's the pigtails." - Merridian
"Oh, Oz, I fear I'm losing my filmfag to the depths of Japanese pop. If only there were more films with Japanese girls in glow-in-the-dark costumes you'd be the David Bordwell of that genre." - Jimbo
"Oz, I think we need to stage an intervention and force you to watch some movies that aren't made in Japan." - Trajan

Hyper Shinchan
God
God
User avatar
Age: 32
Posts: 4774
Joined: Aug 07, 2005
Location: Bunga Bunga Republic
Gender: Male

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Hyper Shinchan » Sun Nov 28, 2010 2:33 pm

View Original PostOz wrote:I wonder what was the mangaka's problem with the anime since it is pretty much the same thing. Anno's direction just makes it a whole lot better. Also, the manga is ridiculously bad after the point at which the anime series ended so the mangaka's opinion shouldn't even matter in any case.

Anno made it more a scholastic comedy and less a (psudo)drama; seriously we're talking about a manga where the protagonist thinks that he's evil because of his parents, not even Shinji is so stupid.
Probably Gainax made a mistake in adapting a manga AND giving the direction to Anno in the first place, it would have been better to either make an original story or make a shitty adaptation by leaving the direction to someone less creative.
So let’s make a wish.
“Please let me redo again.”
No matter how many times

From the book “All About Nagisa Kaworu: A Child of Evangelion”.

Gendo'sPapa
God
God
User avatar
Posts: 4797
Joined: Oct 24, 2006
Location: Everywhere
Gender: Male

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Gendo'sPapa » Sun Nov 28, 2010 6:45 pm

One of the key reasons for Anno's leaving was because he wanted to write his own ending to the anime. The manga was still ongoing (and became progressively worse with each chapter) and Anno did not want to make KareKano a multiple season anime. He wanted to write or had written some conclusion that wrapped up everyone's story alongside the School Festival to act as a Climax to the series. Most likely it was a wrap up that left it in the air whether the relationship between Yukino & Arima would be forever lasting or just a high school fling. The mangaka did not like that and wanted the series to follow the manga and it's increasingly awful storyline (read the Wikipedia article....it gets TURRIBLE!). For some reason or other, legal, Anno couldn't proceed with his version and had to stick with the manga's story.

Anno said "Fudge This" and went off to make his own live action films. Which honestly was good for him. The sad fact was KareKano was now an anime left without a Directorial Vision and an outside source who wouldn't allow them to stray too far creatively.
Which is a shame.

Lucretius
Lilin
Lilin
User avatar
Age: 29
Posts: 1398
Joined: Jul 31, 2008
Location: Italy, EU
Gender: Male

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Lucretius » Sun Nov 28, 2010 6:50 pm

Kare Kano scuked long before Anno left. His directorial bag of tricks isn't enough to make the bland, vacuous characters or tension-free story remotely interesting.

He shuddered a bit, remembering the somewhat creepy level of detail Kaji had gone into, while rubbing a watermelon in a disturbingly sexual way.

Life is a continuous nut-kicking contest where your turn comes last if ever. -majlund

Proud supporter of Shinji x Sachiel

Azathoth
Angel
Angel
User avatar
Posts: 3495
Joined: Dec 08, 2009
Location: somewhere under noctis labyrinthus

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Azathoth » Sun Nov 28, 2010 7:37 pm

View Original PostLucretius wrote:Kare Kano scuked long before Anno left. His directorial bag of tricks isn't enough to make the bland, vacuous characters or tension-free story remotely interesting.


This. It's interesting to watch muted, but trying to follow the plot gave me a headache from sheer insipidness.
Nothing is so valuable that it need not be started afresh, nothing is so rich that it need not be enriched constantly.

Hyper Shinchan
God
God
User avatar
Age: 32
Posts: 4774
Joined: Aug 07, 2005
Location: Bunga Bunga Republic
Gender: Male

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Hyper Shinchan » Sun Nov 28, 2010 10:16 pm

View Original PostLucretius wrote:Kare Kano scuked long before Anno left. His directorial bag of tricks isn't enough to make the bland, vacuous characters or tension-free story remotely interesting.

meh, both of them are probably true but it wasn't that bad before Anno left, maybe my ratings are setted to a lower standard, I dunno.
So let’s make a wish.
“Please let me redo again.”
No matter how many times

From the book “All About Nagisa Kaworu: A Child of Evangelion”.

Xard
Sex God Bastard
Sex God Bastard
User avatar
Age: 28
Posts: 14187
Joined: Jan 03, 2008
Location: Finland
Gender: Male

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Xard » Mon Nov 29, 2010 7:18 am

View Original PostLucretius wrote:Kare Kano scuked long before Anno left. His directorial bag of tricks isn't enough to make the bland, vacuous characters or tension-free story remotely interesting.


Kare Kano's cast was anything but bland and bitch can't into shoujo if you found story "tension-free"
ran1: Oh gosh this sentence gave me an internet boner. You're so tsundere.
Mugwump: Goddamn it, Xard! Take me in your arms, you magnificent sex god bastard!
And don't forget to wear the Ran mask.
Eva Yojimbo: You really are the Otaku equivalent of a Catholic and Jew rolled up into one giant dakimakura of guilt.
Gob Hobblin: Sanctimonious, subtly racist, vaguely misogynist, somehow says something while at the same time saying...nothing, really, at all....

Nice, Xard. That's nice.

shinji_ryoji_89
Shamshel
Shamshel
User avatar
Age: 29
Posts: 263
Joined: Jun 12, 2010
Location: Mexico
Gender: Male
Contact:

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby shinji_ryoji_89 » Wed Dec 08, 2010 3:28 am

Wow, I thought the characters of Kare Kano were anything but insipid and seriously you expect a romantic comedy to be tense? A story doesn't need to be tense (or intense) to be good, especially in the genre that Kare Kano is in.

Heromaster111
Ramiel
Ramiel
User avatar
Age: 30
Posts: 329
Joined: May 24, 2009
Location: Sylacauga, AL
Gender: Female

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Heromaster111 » Thu Dec 09, 2010 12:26 am

Lucretius is still just pissed at what Anno is doing with Rebuild.
Currently Playing-Battlefield:Bad Company 2 and SF4

esselfortium
Angel
Angel
User avatar
Age: 30
Posts: 3392
Joined: Aug 21, 2009
Location: Ultra Hell
Gender: Female
Contact:

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby esselfortium » Thu Dec 09, 2010 12:29 am

View Original PostHeromaster111 wrote:Lucretius is still just pissed at what Anno is doing with Rebuild.

For all the supposed complaints about Luc making troll posts, I don't think he's gone as far as making up fictional motives for other people who disagree with him about something. What ever happened to "stick to the points, not the people"?

Lucretius
Lilin
Lilin
User avatar
Age: 29
Posts: 1398
Joined: Jul 31, 2008
Location: Italy, EU
Gender: Male

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Lucretius » Thu Dec 09, 2010 11:19 am

I saw Kare Kano long before Eva 2.0. It's still an awful show.

The basic problem with the show is obvious even in the first episode. Instead of revealing themselves through their actions and dialogue, the characters flat-out tell you what you're supposed to think of them. "I act confident, but my perfect facade hides a core of insecurity!"

He shuddered a bit, remembering the somewhat creepy level of detail Kaji had gone into, while rubbing a watermelon in a disturbingly sexual way.

Life is a continuous nut-kicking contest where your turn comes last if ever. -majlund

Proud supporter of Shinji x Sachiel

SaltyJoe
Lilin
Lilin
User avatar
Age: 31
Posts: 1719
Joined: Apr 23, 2009
Gender: Male

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby SaltyJoe » Thu Dec 09, 2010 12:10 pm

View Original PostLucretius wrote:The basic problem with the show is obvious even in the first episode. Instead of revealing themselves through their actions and dialogue, the characters flat-out tell you what you're supposed to think of them. "I act confident, but my perfect facade hides a core of insecurity!"

Well, this approach was fun for a while, but it did result in the show loosing steam really fast. The first four episodes are fantastic, then comes the middle section that relies on introducing more and more characters to keep things fresh (it's still decent, though), and an incredible nosedive in the final run. I enjoyed the hell out of this show, but i have to admit that it was most likely the high of the early episodes that kept me watching, besides Anno's mad skills.
"Outside of a dog, a book is man's best friend. Inside of a dog, it is too dark to read."

Defectron
Tentacle Girl
Tentacle Girl
User avatar
Posts: 5843
Joined: Apr 09, 2005
Location: 5th dimension

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Defectron » Thu Dec 09, 2010 1:45 pm

The basic problem with the show is obvious even in the first episode. Instead of revealing themselves through their actions and dialogue, the characters flat-out tell you what you're supposed to think of them. "I act confident, but my perfect facade hides a core of insecurity!"



Normally I would agree about that, but in Kare kanos case the characters get explained in such a fun way with crazy visuals (especially yukino) that I can forgive that.
Parasite Galaxy: An experimental webcomic

http://www.parasitegalaxy.com/ Updates Monday and Thursday. Vote for me on top webcomics

If you want to support this comic buy something from me on amazon

shinji_ryoji_89
Shamshel
Shamshel
User avatar
Age: 29
Posts: 263
Joined: Jun 12, 2010
Location: Mexico
Gender: Male
Contact:

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby shinji_ryoji_89 » Thu Dec 09, 2010 2:21 pm

View Original PostLucretius wrote:I saw Kare Kano long before Eva 2.0. It's still an awful show.

The basic problem with the show is obvious even in the first episode. Instead of revealing themselves through their actions and dialogue, the characters flat-out tell you what you're supposed to think of them. "I act confident, but my perfect facade hides a core of insecurity!"


Yes, but like Defectron said the fun visuals really made that work. But also the way I saw it, the characters thought they knew each other so well only to realize that they didn't. I've known people who are exactly like Yukino and Arima and that's pretty much the way they walk when talking about themselves. Why? Because they want you think that about them. But the more you get to know them, and the more you watch the show you realize that they don't even have themselves figured out. And I do think the characters do reveal themselves through action and dialogue, in an exaggerated way (come on, it's a comedy) but there are ocassions where the show is surprisingly naunced and that's what makes it, imo, one of the best romantic comedies out there in any medium.

Gendo'sPapa
God
God
User avatar
Posts: 4797
Joined: Oct 24, 2006
Location: Everywhere
Gender: Male

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Gendo'sPapa » Thu Dec 09, 2010 4:13 pm

Every message board needs people who like to rain on everyone's parade. They're just fulfilling a need of the internet.

esselfortium
Angel
Angel
User avatar
Age: 30
Posts: 3392
Joined: Aug 21, 2009
Location: Ultra Hell
Gender: Female
Contact:

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby esselfortium » Thu Dec 09, 2010 5:22 pm

View Original PostGendo'sPapa wrote:Every message board needs people who like to rain on everyone's parade. They're just fulfilling a need of the internet.

Yeah, what ever would we do without Gendo'sPapa to tell us we should feel guilty for expressing opinions about stuff?

Mr. Tines
Administrator
Administrator
User avatar
Age: 61
Posts: 20322
Joined: Nov 23, 2004
Location: This sceptered isle.
Gender: Male
Contact:

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Mr. Tines » Thu Dec 09, 2010 5:36 pm

Play the ball and not the man, like good chaps, now.
Reminder: Play nicely <<>> My vanity publishing:- NGE|blog|Photos|retro-blog|Fanfics||MAL
Avatar: Mahou Shoujo Rapture Asuka : "Slice them up with your magical karambit, chu!"


Return to “Related Works & People”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 0 guests