The true indentities of Clockiel & Tunniel

Discussion of the new series of Evangelion movies ( "Evangelion Shin Gekijōban", meaning "Evangelion: New Theatrical Edition").
The third installment debuted in Japan on November 17, 2012.

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The true indentities of Clockiel & Tunniel

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Postby Defectron » Fri Feb 04, 2011 5:57 pm

Here's a thought I don't think anyone may have considered. The new angels might be the old angels in this continuity. What I mean is this, the angels form appears to be determined by its imagination, what we saw in the magma diver episode may have been sandalphon taking on a new form based on its imagination. Now in rebuild some of the old angels we knew have already taken on slightly different forms such as Zeruel for example. So far everyones assumed that tunnel and clocky are new beasts altogether, but maybe they aren't. Maybe in this continuity, these are maybe Lelial and Sandalphon for example, but here they imagined a different sort of form to assume for whatever reason then what they use in the regular eva continuity. Tunneliel being Sandalphon would make a lot of sense given that angel was actually captured like what almost happened to Sandalphon in regular eva continuity.
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Postby Jornophelanthas » Fri Feb 04, 2011 6:30 pm

Interesting comparison. I don't know if it can fly all the way, though.

However, if there is indeed some sense to it, I agree with the parallel between the 3rd Angel and Sandalphon.

I would then associate the 7th Angel with Matarael (the spider-like thing) because of its appearance. And/or with Gaghiel, because it introduces Asuka and Unit-02.

Furthermore, I would like to point out that some of the "familiar" Angels had their roles expanded to fulfill the functions of multiple of the "original" Angels.

- 9th Angel not only looks like and fulfills the role of Bardiel, but also plays Arael's role in Rebuild (because it removed Asuka as an active pilot).
- 10th Angel not only looks like and fulfills the role of Zeruel, but also plays Armisael's role in Rebuild (because it was the cause of Unit-00's destruction).

Furthermore (and this is speculation), the 10th Angel could also easily play the part of Leliel in Rebuild 3.0, because the Shinji-is-liquified-inside-the-entry-plug-and-won't-come-out story sequence could easily be fitted into the aftermath of this battle.

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Postby Defectron » Sat Feb 05, 2011 10:13 pm

Yeah, matarael and gaghiel are more likely, I was just using Leliel as an example off the top of my head.
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Postby Kendrix » Thu Feb 17, 2011 4:45 pm

Just like Gaghiel, Clockiel destroys a lot of ships (This is an injoke - Soryu is named after an aircraft carrier. During her introduction, aircraftt carriers are destroyed. Guess what gets destroyed when Shikinami arrives... yes, destroyers!)

I actually named Tunneliel 'Raziel' in a ff, after the angel that was suposed to have Sachiels role in the Proposal. It seemed fitting since tunneliel is inserted 'before' Sachiel XD
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Postby Eva 04 » Thu Feb 17, 2011 5:48 pm

View Original PostJornophelanthas wrote:Interesting comparison. I don't know if it can fly all the way, though.

However, if there is indeed some sense to it, I agree with the parallel between the 3rd Angel and Sandalphon.

I would then associate the 7th Angel with Matarael (the spider-like thing) because of its appearance. And/or with Gaghiel, because it introduces Asuka and Unit-02.

Furthermore, I would like to point out that some of the "familiar" Angels had their roles expanded to fulfill the functions of multiple of the "original" Angels.

- 9th Angel not only looks like and fulfills the role of Bardiel, but also plays Arael's role in Rebuild (because it removed Asuka as an active pilot).
- 10th Angel not only looks like and fulfills the role of Zeruel, but also plays Armisael's role in Rebuild (because it was the cause of Unit-00's destruction).

Furthermore (and this is speculation), the 10th Angel could also easily play the part of Leliel in Rebuild 3.0, because the Shinji-is-liquified-inside-the-entry-plug-and-won't-come-out story sequence could easily be fitted into the aftermath of this battle.


What do you mean the 9th angel looks like and fulfills the role of Bardiel and the 10th angel looks like and fulfills the role of Zeruel? They both are Bardiel and Zeruel respectively.

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Postby Reichu » Thu Feb 17, 2011 6:19 pm

Eva 04: No official materials have identified the NME Angels by names.

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Postby Eva 04 » Thu Feb 17, 2011 6:58 pm

View Original PostReichu wrote:Eva 04: No official materials have identified the NME Angels by names.


But do you really need an official source to identify those two?

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Postby Reichu » Thu Feb 17, 2011 7:46 pm

Some people feel that, until the NME Angels are official identified with names, they should be designated by ordinal only. Since NME is a separate continuity, you can't say for a FACT "That's Zeruel" or "That's Shamshel", although other fans will understand you if you do.

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Postby Eva 04 » Thu Feb 17, 2011 8:04 pm

View Original PostReichu wrote:Some people feel that, until the NME Angels are official identified with names, they should be designated by ordinal only. Since NME is a separate continuity, you can't say for a FACT "That's Zeruel" or "That's Shamshel", although other fans will understand you if you do.


Eh? No offense but that's kinda stupid IMO. But if that's how some people are when it comes to the names then there's not much I can to do about it. Personally,I'm still gonna identify them as Bardiel and Zeruel because honestly,that's what their names are to me.

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Last edited by Eva 04 on Thu Feb 17, 2011 11:24 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Postby Twin Drive Sigma Aquarion » Thu Feb 17, 2011 8:24 pm

You know what would be awesome? What if their names really are Kushiel and Othniel when the names get released?
Last edited by Twin Drive Sigma Aquarion on Thu Feb 17, 2011 8:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby esselfortium » Thu Feb 17, 2011 8:38 pm

View Original PostTwin Drive Sigma Aquarion wrote:You know what would be awesome?

Yeah :-)

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Postby Reichu » Thu Feb 17, 2011 10:14 pm

View Original PostEva 04 wrote:Eh? No offense but that's kinda stupid IMO. But if that's how everyone is(...)

Reichu wrote:Some people feel that(...)


After working on tons of NME-related updates to the Wiki, I'm starting to compulsively refer to the NME Angels by number... (That damned thing makes me blink with disbelief every single time I see a forum member refer to an Eva, Lilith, or Adam as a "she", too. "What? We're allowed to call them tha-- oh, right.")

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Postby Defectron » Fri Feb 18, 2011 10:04 am

What if their names really are Kushiel and Othniel when the names get released?



If any names ever get released. I don't know why but I have a feeling we'll never know for sure what these guys are named. Though until if/when we do get any names I'll just think of them as being updated sandalphon and matariel which they might actually end up being too.
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Postby Jornophelanthas » Fri Feb 18, 2011 10:23 am

View Original PostReichu wrote:Some people feel that, until the NME Angels are official identified with names, they should be designated by ordinal only. Since NME is a separate continuity, you can't say for a FACT "That's Zeruel" or "That's Shamshel", although other fans will understand you if you do.


I second this post. By the way, I have always found it jarring that the Angels received names in NGE, but these names were never used on-screen (or arguably in-universe).

However, for easy reading in my own posts, I am still using the NGE names in quotes as nicknames. The quotes serve to indicate that these names are not canon in Rebuild. The "new" Angels just don't receive a name, just a number.

e.g. The Sixth Angel ("Ramiel")
e.g. The Seventh Angel

(However, I am also inclined to believe that the Third and Seventh Angels are redesigns of Sandalphon and Matarael, respectively. Because this is ambiguous and may amount to mere guesswork, however, I don't use those names as nicknames.)

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Postby Ornette » Fri Feb 18, 2011 3:08 pm

View Original PostJornophelanthas wrote:I second this post. By the way, I have always found it jarring that the Angels received names in NGE, but these names were never used on-screen (or arguably in-universe).

They were named in the recap part of episodes 14 and 23, at least the Angels up to that point.

Example: http://wiki.evageeks.org/FGC:Episode_14_Cut_132
http://wiki.evageeks.org/FGC:Episode_14_Cut_194
http://wiki.evageeks.org/FGC:Episode_14_Cut_231
etc.

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Postby Jornophelanthas » Fri Feb 18, 2011 3:39 pm

View Original PostOrnette wrote:They were named in the recap part of episodes 14 and 23, at least the Angels up to that point.

Example: http://wiki.evageeks.org/FGC:Episode_14_Cut_132
http://wiki.evageeks.org/FGC:Episode_14_Cut_194
http://wiki.evageeks.org/FGC:Episode_14_Cut_231
etc.


I stand corrected on my formulation.

Let me reformulate. The Angels' names were only ever shown to the viewers. Nowhere were there any indications that these names were actually known to the characters (Adam, Lilith and Lilin excepted).

While it is imaginable that SEELE could derive such names either from the Secret Dead Sea Scrolls, or from talking to Kaworu (who seems to know than he can say in the few lines he has), none of these names were ever spoken. (Again, Adam, Lilith and Lilin are the exceptions.)

If the only reason why an entity (most Angels don't qualify as characters, in my opinion) is named is for the benefit of the viewers (and perhaps to give them some obsure clues), I question whether these labels may be justifiably be called names.

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Re: The true indentities of Clockiel & Tunniel

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Postby DarkBluePhoenix » Sat Apr 07, 2018 12:40 am

View Original PostDefectron wrote:Here's a thought I don't think anyone may have considered. The new angels might be the old angels in this continuity.

Found this thread while doing research for my fic. I have to say, that's one hell of a theory, but it does hold a certain amount of sway, I mean, Clockiel does have the spindly bits Matarael does, and Tunniel could be something like Gaghiel or Sandalphon if it was captured and stripped to the bone. I would lean towards Gaghiel, considering Tunniel moves around like a fish, and lacks Sandalphon's claw arms.
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Re: The true indentities of Clockiel & Tunniel

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Postby Blockio » Sat Apr 07, 2018 9:13 am

To me, the Wunder looks quite a ot like a cross between Gaghiel and Sandalphon
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Re: The true indentities of Clockiel & Tunniel

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Postby DarkBluePhoenix » Sat Apr 07, 2018 9:16 am

I think of the Wunder as Arael, but with a solidified form.
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Re: The true indentities of Clockiel & Tunniel

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Postby ACGT-Samael » Mon Apr 09, 2018 10:32 am

Personally, I'm liking referring to get Third Angel as Lucifer. While looking doesn't match the importance of that being in Judeo-Christian lore, physically speaking it does match descriptions of Lucifer as a serpent cast down onto the Earth (doesn't get more cast down than underground). It's even contained in Cocytus, where Dante said the Devil was.

The Seventh combines the size and aquatic nature of Gaghiel with the bird-like features of Arael (I can't be the only one who thinks it looks like a bobbing bird), so either of those names seems valid.

The Twelfth, means, is a strand like being that takes on elements of Lilith / Rei and then dies when it merges with an Eva. Bonus points for being around 2 Evas that look like Units 00 and 01. Zeruel may be taken on traits of Armisael but the Twelfth here seems to borrow a ton from it as well, so I'm just going to call it Armisael and be done with it.


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