Puella Magi Madoka Magika [2]

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Puella Magi Madoka Magika [2]

Postby soul.assassin » Sat Apr 23, 2011 7:13 pm

This is a continuation from: viewtopic.php?t=11552&start=1500

Oh, man... I'm gonna crack on this one I'm reading here:

From AS:
Yeah, in the end Sayaka probably receives more hate than any other character. Madoka herself was probably the most often bashed for most of the series' run (There was even an online hate letter at some blog directed at her, lol), but after the finale she's finally getting the credit she deserved all along. The Church of Madoka is the best religion ever.

Though I guess it's kind of fitting that someone like Sayaka gets a hard time in real life, also, given how good she is at attracting tragedy. Poor girl just can't catch a break.



nie;dr (Not in English; didn't read)

I'm pretty sure that whatever the Eva animation director said was dumb, though, whatever it was.


:rofl: WHAT?

Then there's clarification:

Has Madoka surpassed Evangelion? Well that's not too bad.
It would be troublesome if a relic of the past remains at the top forever (refering to Evangelion)

I do have one thing to say to the staff, however

Do no confuse the quality of the show and the quality of your actual merits

So keep on focusing on what you do next, okay? (so what he's probably saying is the show itself was good, but it was not because of the staff. Since he is the photography director I am sure he is referring to the technical aspects of the show )

It's not as hostile and you make it to be.

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Postby Fireball » Sat Apr 23, 2011 9:03 pm

Omedetō Madoka

Amazing ending to an amazing show althought it really felt a bit underwhelming. Or maybe it's just the lingering feeling you have when a good show has ended and you want more. Can't really put any cohesive thoughts togehter right now besides I NEVER LONGED ANY HARDER FOR SOME YURI.
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Postby symbv » Sat Apr 23, 2011 9:06 pm

Oz picked corruption and redemption as its main theme
cramergamer picked acceptance as its main theme
I picked love and sacrifice for love as its main theme.
2chan also had a discussion of its main theme but of course there is no consensus or conclusion. I think all are right -- it is just how you interpret which is more MAIN :)

View Original Posttoe mash wrote: There are some good scenes but I was just hoping they'd pull off something truly unexpected and ballsy. Having a character sacrificing itself and somehow everything working out is annoying ENDING. And I can't believe that someone would say that westerner audiences focus too much on plot.. PMMM had a great plot so far so why wouldn't we want something to wrap it up that makes sense given the info we've received up till that point?


Yeah, I am one of those who said westerners focus too much on plot, and I will repeat it again here, with the addition that westerners want too much of something unexpected, out of the line, surprising, or mindfucking. It is not to say that Japanese do not have their share of viewers who want wacky endings (or just simply BAD END) but the "first among all" status westerners put on the "plot" thing is way overdone IMHO. And the tendency to extol an anime just because it delivers a mindfucking ending (or its reverse - struck down one anime just because it did not give an unusual ending that HE would say "fuck yes" and like) is much stronger among western fans -- apparently the idea is "hey, anime is weird stuff, right? So try me! See if I'd give a fuck" (no, toe mash, I am not talking specifically about you here... but looking at things on a more general level)

View Original Posttoe mash wrote:
Still great series, 9/10 from me, but (even though I wish I could) I can't call it a masterpiece or whatever.


Since you give it a 9 I am fine with your gripes above :wink:

To be honest, I think Ep.10 is the best episode in the series and Ep.12 is an ending that will divide people, but I give it credit for providing a clear focus on its main themes, wrapping up everything in a neat way, and (most importantly) striking a balance between giving a best end (many fans want the whole cast come back to fight and beat Walpurgis Night) and a bad end (everyone dies). Hence the "less-than-best good end". My only reservation is that by giving Madoka such a transcending god-like elevation, it may get too detached and faraway for fans to identify with. And I also question if there is a need to include historical figures as mahou shoujo.

View Original Posttoe mash wrote:
Fuck, why can't more anime be like Katanagatari and have the best rogering ending ever? God damn that was one satisfying ending that managed to really make you appreciate the whole show more.


Well, that ending is the ending in the novel. I guess it just means that you love certain type of writing (and how it ends) more than others. I don't think we could conclude much about what an anime can do for its ending from that anime. It is not as if they had a lot of freedom to change the original ending.

==========================

This is interesting stuff:

From left to right
Madoka, Homura, Sayaka, Mami, Kyouko, QB
Image


OMAKE:

The real Homura in Ep.11 ?
SPOILER: Show
Image
Ma..!! M..M..Ma...Ma..Madoka came to my place??He..heee..hee..
There is such delicious thing? Hee...


EDIT -- just noticed that this PMMM thread finally surpassed the "what anime you are watching" thread in number of views. (47842 vs 47764)
lol PMMM got more interests than all anime combined?


=======================

EDIT 2 -
soul.assassin wrote:Quote:
Looks like Evangelion's animation director has some harsh words for Madoka's staff.

http://yaraon.blog109.fc2.com/blog-entry-1649.html

Then there's clarification:

Quote:
Has Madoka surpassed Evangelion? Well that's not too bad.
It would be troublesome if a relic of the past remains at the top forever (refering to Evangelion)

I do have one thing to say to the staff, however

Do no confuse the quality of the show and the quality of your actual merits

So keep on focusing on what you do next, okay?
(so what he's probably saying is the show itself was good, but it was not because of the staff. Since he is the photography director I am sure he is referring to the technical aspects of the show )

It's not as hostile and you make it to be


Hmm... translation is a bit different form how I understand from the original Japanese. He is not saying that the show itself is good, but he was saying that the staff got more praises than they deserved -- so it is indeed a bit hostile!!

Also if he was praising the show's technical aspects, he would have to praise the staff as well, because he was referring to "staff who made this show" which should include those who worked on the technical side too.

The original Japanese is this:
まどか★マギカ、がエヴァを超えた?けっこうなんじゃないですか、
いつまでも過去の遺物がトップじゃ困るしw。
でも、作ってる中の人に一言だけ申し上げときますけど、
スタッフの実力以上に作品が評価されているのを
自分の実力などと勘違いしないことですね。
継続して精進してください・・・・かな?

Here is my translation:
Madoka Magika surpassed Eva? Isn't it something?
It would be bad if a relic from the past stays on top forever lol
But if I am to say a word to the staff who made this, it would be
"Do not confuse the fact that the work was praised at a level above the quality of the staff as things like it is the quality of the staff itself.
Just keep going and try hard to improve..." I guess?

The guy who wrote that is Junni Suzuki,
Eva TV - animation director ep.1,5,7,15,23 key animation ep.9,20, 24,26
Eva TV director cut - director ep.21, animation director ep.21, 23, key animation ep.23
Rebuild 1.0 - chief animation director, key animation
Rebulld 2.0 - design works, animation director, key animation
Last edited by symbv on Sun Apr 24, 2011 3:44 am, edited 4 times in total.
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Postby Electric Sachiel » Sat Apr 23, 2011 10:23 pm

I recently downloaded and watched episodes 11 and 12. Episode 11 was nuts with its freaking fight scene with Homura. I loved it! For what they were it was a satisfying ending....though i did think Madoka visitng previous Mahou Shoujo in the past and present timelines was a bit silly at first. To have one wish and one person being the savior....fascinating. I was expecting a darker ending lol.

Not sure what to think of the world that Homura and others are in now. So they beat demons now that materialize from human despair? Isnt that sort of the same thing as witches? Or something very similar?

So is anyone here going to be getting the Japanese blu ray releases? I for one will pass since they dont have subtitles. However, as soon as a North American distributor gets their mitts on this one, i'll definitely look into getting this on blu ray.

Maybe two years down the road unfortunately.....


P.S. Homura with Madokas red ribbons looks so kawaii..... :love:

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Postby symbv » Sat Apr 23, 2011 10:29 pm

^ I am thinking of getting the Blue Ray. Unfortunately as I am moving out of Japan I cannot join the long list of Japanese buyers to pre-order the disks here...

The first volume is out on Apr 27. The HMV Japan twitter was saying that after the broadcast of the last episodes, the order for vol.1 became a deluge and even they had reserved a big quantity already, they now feared they might have no disc to put on their shopfront as all discs go to those who pre-ordered. The last time such thing happened was Bakemonogatari but at that time its huge sales was a bit unpredicted, not this time though...

Not sure what to think of the world that Homura and others are in now. So they beat demons now that materialize from human despair? Isnt that sort of the same thing as witches? Or something very similar?


Those demons are called Majuu (魔獣 magical beast -- though they look human...). The difference is that mahou shoujo did not turn into witches at the end. If their Soul Gem was overwhelmed by darkness or power was used up, they just died and disappeared, perhaps having a visit by Madoka-sama first. On the other hand, getting Grief Seed from Majuu and use it to re-energize Soul Gem, with the used-up Grief Seed taken by QB to reverse the entropy of the universe is the same as the old system.


soul.assassin wrote:Quote:
Looks like Evangelion's animation director has some harsh words for Madoka's staff.

http://yaraon.blog109.fc2.com/blog-entry-1649.html

Then there's clarification:

Quote:
Has Madoka surpassed Evangelion? Well that's not too bad.
It would be troublesome if a relic of the past remains at the top forever (refering to Evangelion)

I do have one thing to say to the staff, however

Do no confuse the quality of the show and the quality of your actual merits

So keep on focusing on what you do next, okay?
(so what he's probably saying is the show itself was good, but it was not because of the staff. Since he is the photography director I am sure he is referring to the technical aspects of the show )

It's not as hostile and you make it to be


Hmm... translation is a bit different form how I understand from the original Japanese. He is not saying that the show itself is good, but he was saying that the staff got more praises than they deserved -- so it is indeed a bit hostile!!

Also if he was praising the show's technical aspects, he would have to praise the staff as well, because he was referring to "staff who made this show" which should include those who worked on the technical side too.

The original Japanese is this:
まどか★マギカ、がエヴァを超えた?けっこうなんじゃないですか、
いつまでも過去の遺物がトップじゃ困るしw。
でも、作ってる中の人に一言だけ申し上げときますけど、
スタッフの実力以上に作品が評価されているのを
自分の実力などと勘違いしないことですね。
継続して精進してください・・・・かな?

Here is my translation:
Madoka Magika surpassed Eva? Isn't it something?
It would be bad if a relic from the past stays on top forever lol
But if I am to say a word to the staff who made this, it would be
"Do not confuse the fact that the work was praised at a level above the quality of the staff as things like it is the quality of the staff itself.
Just keep going and try hard to improve..." I guess?

The guy who wrote that is Junji Suzuki 鈴木俊二
Eva-related work he did:
Eva TV - animation director ep.1,5,7,15,23 key animation ep.9,20, 24,26
Eva TV director cut - director ep.21, animation director ep.21, 23, key animation ep.23
Rebuild 1.0 - chief animation director, key animation
Rebulld 2.0 - design works, animation director, key animation


Perhaps the guy was upset by some people in 2chan and blogs lining up PMMM alongside Eva. One even wrote:

1963 - Tetsuwan Atom
(16 years later)
1979 - Mobile Suit Gundam
(16 years later)
1995 - Neon Genesis Evangelion
(16 years later)
2011 - Puella Magi Madoka Magika

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Last edited by symbv on Sun Apr 24, 2011 4:53 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby cramergamer » Sat Apr 23, 2011 11:04 pm

So does anyone think Homura found happiness/a somewhat normal life in the new world or what?

She seemed pretty happy at first, but her speech at the end before fighting the demons was pretty cynical and left me a bit uneasy.

It makes it seem like everyone had a happy ending but her.

Now I just want a sequel. Direct Sequel. With More Homura. I normally do not want continuations due to fear of messing up what is already there, but I really do not care in this case.

I want to see more Homura. I want to make sure she is happy. And if she isn't, I want to see her go through a chain of events that ends with her being happy.

Also, think, a whole new world, with some new rules and new enemies. They could pull some new shocks and twists on us.

I dont care though. I just want more.
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Postby Oz » Sat Apr 23, 2011 11:07 pm

View Original Postcramergamer wrote:I want to see more Homura. I want to make sure she is happy.

Think of Madoka's ending as EoE's ending. The characters have found their "happiness", but the world is still a bitch. The struggle is worth it, though.
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Postby soul.assassin » Sat Apr 23, 2011 11:19 pm

View Original Postsymbv wrote:Perhaps the guy was upset by some people in 2chan and blogs lining up PMMM alongside Eva. One even wrote:

1963 - Tetsuwan Atom
(16 years later)
1979 - Mobile Suit Gundam
(16 years later)
1995 - Neon Genesis Evangelion
(16 years later)
2011 - Puella Magi Madoka Magika

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


Maybe there's some truth and good advice in his message, but still it's so funny, history must be repeating itself! :rofl: Anyone who read the Notenki Memoirs knows that Tomino instigated a "Death to Eva" party after it was clear back then that Eva was upstaging and challenging his franchise's dominion.

I'm toying with something new at this point...

ShinjiXMadoka anyone?

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Postby Azathoth » Sat Apr 23, 2011 11:25 pm

View Original Postsoul.assassin wrote:ShinjiXMadoka anyone?


"Most likely couple to cry during sex"

I doubt Shinji could tolerate her though, she's all the worst attributes of himself and Kaworu
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part c of Ep.12

Postby symbv » Sat Apr 23, 2011 11:32 pm

View Original Postcramergamer wrote:So does anyone think Homura found happiness/a somewhat normal life in the new world or what?

She seemed pretty happy at first, but her speech at the end before fighting the demons was pretty cynical and left me a bit uneasy.

It makes it seem like everyone had a happy ending but her.


She is happy I believe. She thought only she remembered Madoka but meeting Madoka's brother and mother told her it was not exactly the case. She stayed behind but she is now doing what her original wish is also about -- help Madoka. She is now maintaining the order of the new world as reconstituted by Madoka.

As for the Part C of Ep.12 (in Japan, footage after ED is aired is called "Part C"), I have written a summary of audience views of the Homura with black wings here

However, I have found an explanation in 2chan that seem to trump those theories, at least in terms of evidence given. So here it goes:

(the text inside is the translation of what the 2chan person who posted the theory wrote)
SPOILER: Show

Homura walking on the Earth alone? (is she the only human survivor?)
Image

In Part B, Homura's wings were white. It has become dark now. Did she go through lots and lots of battles just not so long ago? (how long has time passed since end of Part B?)
Image
Image

We did not get to see Homura's eyes but it seemed Homura had realized some key things or made some key decision. Something uncertain or not going too well?
Image

Darkness on the wings was creeping in. Homura heard Madoka (death flag?) and she smiled. We did not get to see her eyes.
Image

Homura going on a final suicidal attack?
Image

The ominous darkness now spread to the whole screen. Darkness finally enveloped Homura?
Image

The line of all the mahou shoujo past and present. The red ribbon fell from Homura's silhouette. (Homura fought to her Soul Gem limit and as per the new system departed from this world?)
Image

The ribbon fell to the pink Soul Gem representing Madoka. Homura was saved and taken in by Madoka? And after that, all mahou shoujo were gone and only the pink Soul Gem remains.
The rune below said OSHIMAI (The End). The world of Madoka Magika finally came to an end?
Image


Many said it was unimaginable that Butch Gen would write an ending that did not have everyone killed. If the theory above is correct, then it means that Butch Gen really wrote an ending as people said he would after all -- everyone really dies (annihilated?) at the end


View Original Postcramergamer wrote:Now I just want a sequel. Direct Sequel. With More Homura. I normally do not want continuations due to fear of messing up what is already there, but I really do not care in this case.


I just want a heart-warming comedy and I'd say to hell with continuity. Just get everyone back and let's have some fun!
Last edited by symbv on Sat Apr 23, 2011 11:49 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Postby soul.assassin » Sat Apr 23, 2011 11:46 pm

View Original PostAzathoth wrote:"Most likely couple to cry during sex"

I doubt Shinji could tolerate her though, she's all the worst attributes of himself and Kaworu


Provided with a bit more of character development, I'd like to see that.

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Re: part c of Ep.12

Postby child of Lilith » Sun Apr 24, 2011 12:38 am

View Original Postsymbv wrote: However, I have found an explanation in 2chan that seem to trump those theories, at least in terms of evidence given. So here it goes:

(the text inside is the translation of what the 2chan person who posted the theory wrote)
SPOILER: Show

Homura walking on the Earth alone? (is she the only human survivor?)
Image

In Part B, Homura's wings were white. It has become dark now. Did she go through lots and lots of battles just not so long ago? (how long has time passed since end of Part B?)
Image
Image

We did not get to see Homura's eyes but it seemed Homura had realized some key things or made some key decision. Something uncertain or not going too well?
Image

Darkness on the wings was creeping in. Homura heard Madoka (death flag?) and she smiled. We did not get to see her eyes.
Image

Homura going on a final suicidal attack?
Image

The ominous darkness now spread to the whole screen. Darkness finally enveloped Homura?
Image

The line of all the mahou shoujo past and present. The red ribbon fell from Homura's silhouette. (Homura fought to her Soul Gem limit and as per the new system departed from this world?)
Image

The ribbon fell to the pink Soul Gem representing Madoka. Homura was saved and taken in by Madoka? And after that, all mahou shoujo were gone and only the pink Soul Gem remains.
The rune below said OSHIMAI (The End). The world of Madoka Magika finally came to an end?
Image


Many said it was unimaginable that Butch Gen would write an ending that did not have everyone killed. If the theory above is correct, then it means that Butch Gen really wrote an ending as people said he would after all -- everyone really dies (annihilated?) at the end
This is pretty much what I think happened. Although I hadn't noticed the ribbon part. I don't however believe they were all annihilated. Yes they all died (just like normal people do) but they then get to spend eternity in heaven with Madoka. And that sounds like a pretty good deal to me.
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Postby soul.assassin » Sun Apr 24, 2011 1:54 am

Seems that in the conceptual stages for designing Homura, inspirations were drawn from Dr. Who and from Dio Brando.

The second link to the Flash... damn it, IT MADE ME LAUGH SO HARD! :rofl:

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Majuu design in PMMM Ep.12 part C

Postby symbv » Sun Apr 24, 2011 2:17 am

View Original Postcramergamer wrote:Yo, symbv, I got one last piece of work for you to translate. This one looks pretty interesting.

Image


cramergamer, I have not forgotten that leaked "monster design" for Part C of Ep.12

Here is my translation. And it is a SHOCKING ONE !!!

(to the right of majuu)
(top right)
Small pieces of Grief Seed are cubic.

(top of the majuu, to the right)
Deliberately look like CG. Polygon?
something with straight lines

White giant men. 3m or so.

<-- Body: use cel (inside the rectangle)
* not visible, just like majo/witch
* normally visible
(symbv: not sure why there are two contradictory comments here)

To the right of the big bold (
Mahou (shoujo) power:
curvic feminine power
random mutlipyling
^
|
v
Maju/demon-beast power:
straight line masculine power
organized contracting
simple

<-- clothes that look like priests
swingng slowly left and right

(hidden settings (inside the vertical rectangle)
They move using power different from Mahou (shoujo)
In order to retake the balance of the world that had become twisted and zigzagged, they gather Grief Seed
They sucked out Feelings that was also the source of power for Mahou (shoujo) from people and changed it to Grief seed
The person who got sucked became a wasted person.

[Left hand side]
#12 Majuu (demon beast)

They look godly.
(picture of a bunch of majuu with rays of light above)

Their attack is fine beams of laser coming from their hands
(picture of laser beams shooting from fingers)

(picture of black wings)
<-- Many pieces of aura joined together like collage. Mahou (shoujo)'s power

@ Homura ED ver.
Here she looks like the villain




Basically the universe/the world that human lives enters into a new age. Emotions and feelings are out of the way, and human is heading for (or reached) extinction. In the new age, Majuu will be the gods and they will rule a world/universe that is orderly and organized. :gasp: :gasp: :gasp:
Last edited by symbv on Sun Apr 24, 2011 4:31 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: part c of Ep.12

Postby Mr. Tines » Sun Apr 24, 2011 2:37 am

View Original Postsymbv wrote:I just want a heart-warming comedy and I'd say to hell with continuity. Just get everyone back and let's have some fun!
Madoka Kaname Raising Project, anyone?
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Postby symbv » Sun Apr 24, 2011 3:49 am

Someone asked me whether they are the seiyuu who voiced the respective roles in PMMM. The answer is: Correct!

From left to right
Madoka, Homura, Sayaka, Mami, Kyouko, QB
Image

Somebody in 2chan put some touches on their photos and got them in some cosplay mode :lol: Homura does not need any change though :lol:

=================

I love the YURI-YURI in Ep.12 :heart: :heart:

(click for bigger image -- Homura's tears are more visible)
Image
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Postby InstrumentalityOne » Sun Apr 24, 2011 4:01 am

I really want to punch every guy who seriously compares PMMM to Eva.
Sure, there are some parallels, both being trolololo and all, but the end of EvaTV was actually satisfying.

And what´s that fuss about Madoka surpassing Eva?
Someone elaborate?

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Postby symbv » Sun Apr 24, 2011 4:22 am

View Original PostInstrumentalityOne wrote:I really want to punch every guy who seriously compares PMMM to Eva.
Sure, there are some parallels, both being trolololo and all, but the end of EvaTV was actually satisfying.


I object. The end of EvaTV was actually NOT satisfying. That's why we have EoE and everyone who watched EvaTV is always advised to check EoE for the "true ending" and nobody said that you can just watch the TV series by itself and it is alright.

On the other hand, PMMM ending is quite satisfying (watched 3 times already). Any movie that will be done is for those who are not happy with this ending.

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By the way, the seiyuu list (I use last name - first name for seiyuu name; for characters in anime I follow the usual first name - last name convention)

Yuuki Aoi - Madoka
(Victorique - Gosick; Tohru - A Channel; Jyuubei - Samurai Girls)
Saitou Chiwa - Homura
(Lucchini - Strike Witches; Hitagi Senjogahara - Bakemonogatari)
Kitamura Eri - Sayaka
(Nao - Oniichan no koto; Yui - Angel Beats; Yachiyo Todoroki - Working!)
Mizuhashi Kaori - Mami
(Minami Shimada - Baka Test; Aniese - Shukufuku no Campanella)
Nonaka Ai - Kyouko
(Meme Tohwa - Denpa Onna; Fuuko Ibuki - Clannad ~after story~; P.N. - Sayonara Zetsubou Sensei)
Katou Emiri - QB
(Ryuuko Mifune - Denpa Onna; Yuuko/Hideyoshi Kinoshita - Baka Test; Mayoi Hachikuji - Bakemonogatari)

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Let's bring back old memory. This is where all the legend started;
http://youtu.be/pUhiZ63PJZA
I never thought I would come back to Evangelion after EoE,
But I discovered Re-Take (or it found me?) and
now here I am.
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Asuka FAN FOREVER
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Oz
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Postby Oz » Sun Apr 24, 2011 4:39 am

This is topic derailment, but EoTV would be perfect on its own, but EoE is just way more epic - hence the more likable conclusion.
"I'd really like to have as much money as you have, Oz" - robersora
"No you wouldn't. Oz's secret is he goes without food to buy that stuff. He hasn't eaten in years." - Brikhaus

"Often I get the feeling that deep down, your little girl is struggling with your embrace of filmfaggotry and your loldeep fixations, and the conflict that arises from such a contradiction is embodied pretty well in Kureha's character. But obviously it's not any sort of internal conflict that makes the analogy work. It's the pigtails." - Merridian
"Oh, Oz, I fear I'm losing my filmfag to the depths of Japanese pop. If only there were more films with Japanese girls in glow-in-the-dark costumes you'd be the David Bordwell of that genre." - Jimbo
"Oz, I think we need to stage an intervention and force you to watch some movies that aren't made in Japan." - Trajan

symbv
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Postby symbv » Sun Apr 24, 2011 4:50 am

View Original PostOz wrote:This is topic derailment, but EoTV would be perfect on its own, but EoE is just way more epic - hence the more likable conclusion.


The problem with watching EoTV ending only is that most likely people would draw a very different conclusion if they did not watch EoE as well. Of course we can say that it is "perfect" in its own way even if it means a different conclusion is drawn from watching the TV ending alone.

Anyway, as the tv ending was kind of forced compromise. They never really got to do what they really wanted to do, so they told at most half the story for the final 2 episodes.

On PMMM, Madoka after removing her ribbon...

Image
I never thought I would come back to Evangelion after EoE,
But I discovered Re-Take (or it found me?) and
now here I am.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Asuka FAN FOREVER
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


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