Is Asuka Overrated as a Pilot?

[Trajan]

This idea struck me when re-watching the series the past few days. I noticed that Shinji always seems to be the one to bail the other pilots out and that Asuka loses repeatedly (thus her breakdown at the end due to her loss of self-confidence and self-worth). What strikes me as odd is that Asuka has years of training, a really high synch ratio, and “combat training” yet Shinji the novice kills more Angels. Some would say that it’s only due to Shinji going berserk and that he’s otherwise useless but don’t forget that Miss Soryu had some help from “Mama” as well. Here’s a breakdown of all the Angel fights that Asuka was present for.

Gaghiel: survives only due to Kyoko’s soul awakening and opening the Angel’s jaws.
Israfel: loses when the Angel splits and only defeats it with help from Shinji.
Sandalphon: would have died if Shinji didn’t remind her of thermal expansion…not to mention the fact that he jumped in the lava to save her from sinking.
Matariel: functions as a shield which any of the pilots could have done.
Sahaquiel: it takes all three pilots to kill the Angel so I don’t hold this against her.
Iruel: doesn’t count because Ritsuko was the one to kill this Angel.
Leliel: not much she could have done so another one I disqualify.
Bardiel: she gets her ass handed to her in about three seconds. While she was unaware of the capabilities of the Angel (and may have been taken by surprise) she loses distressingly fast.
Zeruel: loses both arms and head.
Arael: mind rape, doesn’t count.
Armisael: can’t even move the Eva.

Eva Series: only wins because of Kyoko’s help and the Eva Series just seems to stand around. Everybody points to this as how badass Asuka is, but it’s like the equivalent of a competent martial artist beating up nine drunks to me.

So if I screwed up on something don’t be afraid to point it out, or add something if you like. So…is Asuka an overrated and over hyped pilot?

Note: Rebuild 2.0 doesn’t factor into the discussion here.

[Seele00TextOnly]

...

[thewayneiac]

Gaghiel: survives only due to Kyoko’s soul awakening and opening the Angel’s jaws.

What is your evidence that Kyoko awakened then? I thought that Shinji and Asuka did that by combining to break both their synch records.

[die-yng]

I think you're missing that this is all part and parcel of the point of her character and her arc... whether or not she's actually 'the best' or even just incredibly good isn't really of interest to much anyone but herself, and she's the one who's always going on about it because she needs to for reasons involving all the psychological issues the series gets into with her.

So in a sense what you are pointing out is all very much intentional within the plot and character of the series; she overhyped and overestimated herself, doing the best she could to manufacture a reality for and about herself that ultimately didn't hold up enough under scrutiny and helped to break her.

Also, I disagree with you about the Eva-series. They were toying with her, not drunk; they had better abilities and defenses they were holding back in true shonen fashion. And it was hardly just because of Kyoko; I mean Kyoko reaching out and finally showing herself to Asuka was obviously the cause for her renewed spirit and energy, but Asuka is clearly shown to be in dominant control for the duration of the sequence.

Right on all counts, not much left to say, because your answer totally nailed it.

[Trajan]

Selee00TextOnly: The part about the Eva series being drunk is only a metaphor to illustrate the point that they were just lollygagging around and letting Asuka beat them up. A more appropriate metaphor would’ve been that “the Eva Series fight like they’re on heavy sedatives.”

Thewayneiac: I always interpreted the Eva’s eyes glowing as their soul taking control. Regardless, is still proves my point in that Asuka would’ve died without Shinji to increase their synch ratios.

I also understand that Asuka loves to hype herself up and make others think she’s some sort of uber-pilot, but considering the amount of training she presumably had it seems like she should be able to put up a better fight.

[FreakyFilmFan4ever]

she's the one who's always going on about it because she needs to for reasons involving all the psychological issues the series gets into with her.

Yes. And a lot of times, people speak the most of what they have the least. Asuka's tooting her own horn and trying to grow up too fast because she wants to feel important. Everyone else likes (character's and fans alike) her because she's cute and her Eva's hot.

(Why is there no Eva Unit 02 emoticon?)

I'm not sure how much training she's had, honestly. Though, if you think about it, we're comparing Asuka to a kid who mysteriously got lucky on his first shot, and another blue-haired kid who's prototype goes berserk most of the time and is incompatible to most of the Eva equipment. (D-type equipment, ect.) I'd say Asuka's pretty good when it comes to Eva piloting. At least she knows what she's doing, whereas half the time Shinji is just "getting lucky" with his mother's help, which Asuka herself doesn't get "lucky" in the same way with her mother until EoE.

So, without mommy's assistance, Shinji and Asuka are pretty much the same, even to the point of being rivals throughout the series.

[Bagheera]

It's a difficult question to address, actually, due to how weird the angels are. It's also difficult because Shinji is allowed to defeat opponents who should be eating him alive.

On Matariel: Don't forget Asuka came up with the plan to beat him. It wasn't a particularly genius plan or anything, but it did work. Not bad for a kid.

On Israfel and Bardiel: Both of these defeats occur off-screen, and I've always had issues with them; they don't ring true for me since we never see the Evas "knocked out" or disabled on-screen without an awful lot of trauma.

On Zeruel: No way Shinji should have been able to touch him. Asuka was going full bore with her AT field and all the firepower NERV had at hand. If that didn't work Shinji shouldn't have been able to do a damn thing (berserk Yui, maybe, but that wasn't how it went down). Also, Zeruel's arms seemed to be wimpified when they started attacking Shinji. They sliced Unit 02 to pieces like it was nothing, but when they started hitting Unit 01's core they were giving it love taps. What the hell?

On EoE: Asuka was in complete control there. It's true that the Eva series was playing with her, but she did show a good deal of tactical competance there. Again, nothing genius, really, but what I would expect of someone with combat training.

Overall, I think she is a far better technical pilot than Shinji is. She just isn't as good at syncing with her Eva (which is and isn't her fault) and doesn't have the power of PLOT on her side.

[Reichu]

And it was hardly just because of Kyoko; I mean Kyoko reaching out and finally showing herself to Asuka was obviously the cause for her renewed spirit and energy, but Asuka is clearly shown to be in dominant control for the duration of the sequence.

On EoE: Asuka was in complete control there.

At least Seele included a qualifier via the lack of total confidence...

There are many indications, frequently overlooked / hand-waved, that all is not right during Eva-02's final sortie. See e.g. this post/thread.

[Seele00TextOnly]

...

[Galaxy News Reidio]

Overrated by NERV, Marduk, SEELE, etc? No.
Overrated by herself and certain elements of the fandom? Yes, absolutely.

[chaosakita]

Overrated by NERV, Marduk, SEELE, etc? No.
Overrated by herself and certain elements of the fandom? Yes, absolutely.

I think this sums it up. Who is Asuka overrated by in the first place? I don't think it's something that most fans as well as most people in-story (besides Asuka herself, of course) do.

[Reichu]

Reichu, I've read that post and there's (snip)

I'm not completely sure what all that means, but I get the feeling that one of my classic exhibits is probably in order.

[Bagheera]

Reichu, I've read that post and there's certainly a lot of handwaving going on in it, mostly about symbolism, but I'm not buying it. I use the phrase 'dominant control' because I choose not to discount the host soul in the Eva in most battles, especially ones that have achieved the sort of notoriety this one has, especially the mythology about it you created and pointed to.

We never see Asuka confused about not having control there, or feeling or looking overridden... when I say she was clearly in dominant control, I mean it's her doing that stuff, commanding the actions, being the leader of the Asuka/Kyoko team.

Same here. Not to knock you or anything, Reichu, but all I saw in that post is handwaving. I agree that that whole sequence was bizarre, but I don't see anything that indicates what you describe is the reason. I just see Asuka kicking ass after regaining contact with her mother, doing the same sorts of things Shinji does in 19 before Unit 01 goes berserk.

IOW, pilot force of will counts for something. She has it in EoE to an extent Shinji has never demonstrated, so she managed some unprecedented (and, for her, very unfortunate) feats.

[Reichu]

I don't relish the idea that all I'm doing is handwaving. Perhaps I should consider compiling my arguments and thoughts on the matter into a more organized form. If the ideas really do have no merit, then I would at least like to properly present them and have satisfactory alternatives at the end of it. :p

[die-yng]

Overrated by NERV, Marduk, SEELE, etc? No.
Overrated by herself and certain elements of the fandom? Yes, absolutely.

a bit unfair as an ASSASSEMENT of her skills. She proves quite capable until her confidence is being shattered.
The occurences wher Shinji bests her, are not ue to him being more skilled at all, it's either "deus ex machina" events or 01 acting up on its own.

Yes, she boasts a lot to hide her insecurities, but up to a point she was a better pilot than Shinji, achieving higher synchronity and faring better in training. As stated above, when Shinji bests an Angel. without any logical explanation as to how he could possibly do it, it is absolutely not a statement for Asuka being less skilled than Shinji is.

[Galaxy News Reidio]

Your reply to my post seems to be a bit of a non sequitur. At no point do I call Asuka incapable or unskilled, and I certainly never mention Shinji.

[Bagheera]

I don't relish the idea that all I'm doing is handwaving. Perhaps I should consider compiling my arguments and thoughts on the matter into a more organized form. If the ideas really do have no merit, then I would at least like to properly present them and have satisfactory alternatives at the end of it. :p

Well...if you want to say that whole sequence was bugfuck bizarre I'll certainly agree with you. Nothing seems to operate the way it's supposed to in that fight. However, I do think you (and SSD and others) read a bit too much into what's going on there. When I rewatched it recently I caught only one vocalization from the Eva, for instance, where the arguments noting the sequence's oddity made it seem like it was a repeat occurrence (as well as similar to Unit 01's roars, which was not the case). There's also talk of the unit going berserk, which is arguable (it's moving after its clock runs out, but...well, see below). And then there're those damn lances...

Here's my thought: I think what we're seeing there is the result of Asuka forcing the Eva to sync with her. I don't think it's like Shinji syncing with Unit 01; I think it's something entirely different. I think she was in control of not just the Eva, but of the sync process as well (not consciously, mind). It growls because Asuka growls. It moves without power because Asuka wills it (too late, unfortunately). And she feels what happens to it not because it's berserk, but rather because it is synced with her.

Asuka's madness and desperation have commandeered the process. Shinji withdraws when he's desperate, hiding within himself and letting others solve his problems. But Asuka doesn't do that. When she's threatened she goes on the attack. That's what happened here -- instead of withdrawing and letting Kyoko take over, she reached out and forced Kyoko to do her bidding. It wasn't violent or aggressive (at least, not toward Kyoko), but it was a very Asuka approach to the problem.

I wouldn't swear by any of this, mind; I'm not sure the writers even thought this through. And I admit that this, also, is handwaving. But that's my working hypothesis atm.

[die-yng]

Your reply to my post seems to be a bit of a non sequitur. At no point do I call Asuka incapable or unskilled, and I certainly never mention Shinji.

Oh, just the first part of my post was a direct answer to your oprevious post.

the other half was more of a general reply to some of the other posts.

My point is, that when you discount the events, where Sinji wins out of dumb luck or to drive the plot forward, Asuka actually is the best pilot.
Since Rei's Unit 00 is almost always acting up.


Since I'm one of the Asuka followers you mentioned my emotional response to your opinion. surely is not that big a surprise. :-))

[Galaxy News Reidio]

Die-yng being one of those certain elements of the fandom I mentioned, in case anyone wanted an example.

[Sachi]

Asuka is overrated as a pilot, but there's no doubt that, of the three, she's the most trained and skillful. It's a fact that for a long while her sync ratio was much higher than both Shinji and Rei, and she's much more familiar with her Evangelion than both of the other pilots.

However, she fancies herself to be a better pilot than she is, and due to this she doesn't always take threats seriously, as we see in episode 09. Her cocky attitude plays to her detriment. She's good, but she's not that good.