From Your Lips to the Author's Ears: Story Ideas

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Re: From Your Lips to the Author's Ears: Story Ideas

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Postby El Squibbonator » Thu Feb 22, 2018 11:53 am

View Original PostAsuka'sBigBrother wrote:Since when did a 2 stories need to be similar to be put together...


They don't, but it definitely helps. Writing a story is like cooking--you can't throw ingredients together at random, you have to know which ones complement each other. Otherwise you'll be left with a disgusting slop.
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Postby Asuka'sBigBrother » Thu Feb 22, 2018 12:05 pm

View Original PostEl Squibbonator wrote:They don't, but it definitely helps. Writing a story is like cooking--you can't throw ingredients together at random, you have to know which ones complement each other. Otherwise you'll be left with a disgusting slop.

Any two stories can compliment each other if told the right way. The stories themselves aren't ingredients, they consist ingredients.
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Postby silvermoonlight » Thu Feb 22, 2018 12:16 pm

View Original PostAsuka'sBigBrother wrote:Any two stories can compliment each other if told the right way. The stories themselves aren't ingredients, they consist ingredients.


I disagree a story is like a cooking a meat stew and your ingredients need to be really good as does your gravy, you need to put thought and time in to your plot lines and have well thought out characters who feel real and who the reader can latch on to so they want to take the ride and carry on reading. The last thing you want is to give someone a poor tasting bad quality stew that tastes awful in the mouth because its under cooked or its ingredients are poor.
Last edited by silvermoonlight on Thu Feb 22, 2018 4:21 pm, edited 4 times in total.
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Re: From Your Lips to the Author's Ears: Story Ideas

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Postby Gob Hobblin » Thu Feb 22, 2018 12:25 pm

Silvermoonlight speaks the truth.

Take for example, merging Battle Angel Alita and Evangelion: these are two very different properties and settings, but you can merge the two together because they have some solid overlap with certain themes. The idea of what constitutes a human, the concept of self and identity, how are relations with one another define our actions and sense of who we are, the overall cyberpunk genre of either, and the central theme of vast systems and conspiracies, with small individuals in the midst either fighting against them, being ground down by them, or fighting to break away from them.

You can merge those stories: it would take some doing, but it can be done. That being said, there has to be a reason for it. The characters have to have reasons for why they act as they will in the story, why the even interact and meet with each other. You have to craft this recipe carefully.

If you just take a random story (let's say...Splatoon, because I'm looking at that on my desk right now), and Evangelion...how the hell do you mesh those? What's the theme? How do they interact? It's the same as cooking a beef stew with a triple-decked chocolate cake. It's going to clash, and not in a good way.

Now, you can certainly find a way to make them work (you could take the post-apocalyptic setting of Splatoon and place it solidly after Instrumentality), but you'd have to significantly alter parts of either setting (maybe both) to make the story effective. There's a big risk with that. If you can pull it off, it's brilliant. If you can't, it's a beef stew with a soggy chocolate cake in there. The savory flavor is overwhelmed by the sugar, and the sugar tastes like crap.
Though, Gob still might look good in a cocktail dress.
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Postby Ray » Thu Feb 22, 2018 1:29 pm

View Original PostAsuka'sBigBrother wrote:It's your story, you tell us.


There's this scene from a cartoon based on a Terry Pratchett book where deaths adopted daughter says something that I feels would sum up the relationship between ritsuko and her daughter quite well.

"he doesn't feel sorry for me he probably thinks sorry for me!"
I’ll escape now from this world, from the world of Jean Valjean, Jean Valjean is nothing now! Another story must begin!
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Postby Asuka'sBigBrother » Thu Feb 22, 2018 2:17 pm

View Original PostGob Hobblin wrote:Silvermoonlight speaks the truth.
Now, you can certainly find a way to make them work (you could take the post-apocalyptic setting of Splatoon and place it solidly after Instrumentality), but you'd have to significantly alter parts of either setting (maybe both) to make the story effective. There's a big risk with that. If you can pull it off, it's brilliant. If you can't, it's a beef stew with a soggy chocolate cake in there. The savory flavor is overwhelmed by the sugar, and the sugar tastes like crap.

Right, like I said, it depends on the author's abilities and how he approaches the story. You can make rugrats+nge work, but it takes skill yo do so.
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Postby silvermoonlight » Thu Feb 22, 2018 3:55 pm

View Original PostAsuka'sBigBrother wrote:Right, like I said, it depends on the author's abilities and how he approaches the story. You can make rugrats+nge work, but it takes skill yo do so.


Then please show us your skill and make it work.
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My Eva fanfiction ff.net Fading In To The Stolen Light For download version please go to AO3

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Postby Gob Hobblin » Thu Feb 22, 2018 4:17 pm

Except there are some things where you're just asking for too much skill. I mean sure you can put mud in a stew, and you might make it work....

... But 49 times out of 50 it's not going to work.
Though, Gob still might look good in a cocktail dress.
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Postby ErgoProxy » Thu Feb 22, 2018 4:44 pm

Asuka'sBigBrother wrote:You can make rugrats+nge work, but it takes skill to do so.

It's made already. 10 minutes of pure awesomeness; mecha starts circa about in 6th minute. :tongue:

(I hope it's available in your country without Polish proxy or something.)
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Postby VUX » Thu Feb 22, 2018 4:46 pm

I've got another question for when i make my next fanfic, is it possible to use angel DNA to improve the Zoanoids from Guyver
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Postby amitakartok » Thu Feb 22, 2018 5:38 pm

I think that's... kinda dangerous. Even if the two are compatible enough to mix, who's to say exactly what that Zoanoid ends up growing into?
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Postby Ray » Fri Feb 23, 2018 1:33 am

Question in regards to the 'Shinji's half sister idea'. How long had Ritsuko and Gendo been doing it before the events of the series proper kicked off? It couldn't have been right after her mom died given she was still in High School
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Postby Asuka'sBigBrother » Fri Feb 23, 2018 4:37 am

View Original Postsilvermoonlight wrote:Then please show us your skill and make it work.

SPOILER: Show
Tommy meets Asuka. Asuka and Tommy play on a slide. Tommy and Asuka go home.
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Postby Gob Hobblin » Fri Feb 23, 2018 4:42 am

That's not a story, that's a sequence of events. Why would that be interesting?
Though, Gob still might look good in a cocktail dress.
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Rei wanted to know what waffles tasted like.
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We have to remember what's important in life: friends, waffles, and work. Or waffles, friends, and work. But work has to come in third.
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Come read EVA Sessions! This place has it, too! There'll be pizza! Not really! There are other things, too! Not EVA Sessions! Did I mention the pizza!?

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Postby Asuka'sBigBrother » Fri Feb 23, 2018 4:55 am

View Original PostGob Hobblin wrote:That's not a story, that's a sequence of events. Why would that be interesting?

What I find is interesting is how you were actually expecting me to write a story...

But nah, "if it can be done, why don't u do it?" isn't a legit argument. I haven't made a lilo and stitch/Kim Possible crossover, so obviously it's not possible, cept that its been made.

Why would I spend time on that story idea when I've got something I find more intriguing that I'm working on:
thread/19228/Evangelion-2-A-Legacy-of-Angels/

SPOILER: Show
And yes, I just used this post as an excuse to advertise my story

I was asked to show my skill so...
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Postby Gob Hobblin » Fri Feb 23, 2018 5:21 am

Because silvermoonlight challenged you to write a story. That's why we expected you to do it: you're claiming that it can be done, and you're insisting on it, so...show us.

It's telling that you put it out there, act rather snidely towards us that we can't 'grasp' it, but then demonstrate that you, yourself, can't really do it either.
Though, Gob still might look good in a cocktail dress.
-Sorrow

Rei wanted to know what waffles tasted like.
-Literary Eagle

We have to remember what's important in life: friends, waffles, and work. Or waffles, friends, and work. But work has to come in third.
-Leslie Knope

Come read EVA Sessions! This place has it, too! There'll be pizza! Not really! There are other things, too! Not EVA Sessions! Did I mention the pizza!?

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Postby silvermoonlight » Fri Feb 23, 2018 6:04 am

View Original PostAsuka'sBigBrother wrote:
SPOILER: Show
Tommy meets Asuka. Asuka and Tommy play on a slide. Tommy and Asuka go home.


Okay now that you've had your little snark hows about you give the story you said you could do a try?

I personally wouldn't write your idea because I respect my limitations as a writer, I know there are certain works I could put everything in to but it still wouldn't mean they would be good reads and I would prefer that the reader gets to read the best I can offer them, so if you can pull your idea off I will be both impressed and amazed.
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Postby Asuka'sBigBrother » Fri Feb 23, 2018 7:21 am

View Original PostGob Hobblin wrote:Because silvermoonlight challenged you to write a story.


And I'm not obligated to accept that challenge because my own capacity to do so is irrelevant to my argument.

Furthermore, even if I was capable of doing so, I'm not obligated to put my skills in a topic that doesn't interest me.

All I argued is that a writer of sufficient skill and motivation(I don't know about the former, but it's a definite no for me considering the latter), could write a good story using the premise we're discussing.

And guess what? You already admitted this:
Now, you can certainly find a way to make them work

Then please show us your skill and make it work.

Except my skill was never referred to in my argument. This is a non-sequitir:
Me: A writer who is skilled enough can do it.
You: Are you skilled enough to do it?

The answer to that question proves nothing regarding what I argued.
View Original PostGob Hobblin wrote: demonstrate that you, yourself, can't really do it either.

I never argued I could. Strawman elsewhere.

Not that an absence of evidence = evidence of absence...

BTW, this is uncharacteristically intellectually dishonest from you .
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Postby Cosmo11 » Fri Feb 23, 2018 7:38 am

View Original PostRay wrote:
There's this scene from a cartoon based on a Terry Pratchett book where deaths adopted daughter says something that I feels would sum up the relationship between ritsuko and her daughter quite well.

"he doesn't feel sorry for me he probably thinks sorry for me!"


Ironically, Death is probably the most compassionate characters in the whole series. And now I'm thinking what a crossover between Discworld and Eva would look like.

Ray wrote:Question in regards to the 'Shinji's half sister idea'. How long had Ritsuko and Gendo been doing it before the events of the series proper kicked off? It couldn't have been right after her mom died given she was still in High School


Ritsuko would have been fresh out of college by the time her mother died, not high school.

I'm having trouble seeing this work because of the timing. The only way Ritsuko could have a 7 year old child from Gendo is if she slept with him while he was dating Naoko. Anytime after Naoko's suicide and Tohsa would end up being too young to really interact with the cast. Alternatively, you could have Naoko be Tohsa's mother and have Ritsuko raise her. This would fit the age you want her to be without raising too many questions,

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Postby Gob Hobblin » Fri Feb 23, 2018 7:49 am

You aren't obligated to write the story. And yet, you felt obligated to make a reply, and then mock everyone for not being able to follow up on that.

And it's doubtful anyone would, because in context of the two stories you chose...it would probably be a shit story. That's how odds work: you might win the lottery, and get something good out of it, but it's highly unlikely that you will.

Digging in to that and flailing at everyone pointing out that's its dumb isn't going to fix that: while it's certainly possible to combine anything out there into some sort of new story, it's also possible that a fudge sundae might just randomly appear out of some bizarre combination of physics, right here at my table.

You might call that 'uncharacteristic intellectual dishonesty,' but unfortunately, that's looking a lot like a characteristic chip-on-your-shoulder from you. You're picking a fight that's not worth having, because the thing that your arguing for is an inherently silly thing that you're standing by, which you've admitted, more or less: you're saying that a writer of sufficient skill and motivation could do something with it, but you won't.

Why would any writer with skill or motivation waste their time with something as silly as a Rugrats-Evangelion crossover? It just sounds bizarre: it doesn't sound workable, it doesn't feel workable, and it doesn't feel like something worth wasting time on. And that's the point of what Eva Monkey was saying: just because you CAN crossover anything you want, doesn't mean you WILL, or SHOULD. Because the final product is almost always guaranteed to be something less than even a part of either original product. And that's why skilled writers don't waste time with it: there's better and more important things to work on!

You can call that strawmanning, but that's a fact: you won't work on it, because you have no clue how to make it work (and you don't care enough to). You don't want to, and who can blame you? Why would anybody? It's a dumb idea for a crossover. You deflect it by saying any writer with sufficient skill, but, see above: any writer with skill probably thinks that's a stupid idea! And they're going to look at a lot of those other crossovers, and think the same damned thing.

If you want to prove me wrong, and show that you can make the most amazing fucking crossover ever with two completely outlandishly clashed properties, you go for it and prove me wrong. I would love to read something that brilliant. Meanwhile, I'll be waiting for my sundae.
Though, Gob still might look good in a cocktail dress.
-Sorrow

Rei wanted to know what waffles tasted like.
-Literary Eagle

We have to remember what's important in life: friends, waffles, and work. Or waffles, friends, and work. But work has to come in third.
-Leslie Knope

Come read EVA Sessions! This place has it, too! There'll be pizza! Not really! There are other things, too! Not EVA Sessions! Did I mention the pizza!?


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