[Books] Shizo/Parano

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Postby 1731298478 » Sat Dec 04, 2010 2:15 am

Not sure where to post this, but I'll try here ^^

I just noticed this comment from Rei's Japanese wikipedia page.

『スキゾ・パラノ』によると、厳密には「肉体はユイとアダムの遺伝子を半分ずつ受け継いでいる肉体」だと言われている.

"According to 'Schizo/Parano', to be exact, '[Rei's] body inherits half each of Yui and Adam's genetics.'"

The source for this is page 180 of Schizo (『スギゾ・エヴァンゲリオン』180ページでの貞本義行の発言), and the person speaking is Sadamoto.

Could Sadamoto possibly have been right about this or is he just way out of the loop (or did no one really have any idea at the time?). Is there any way this could be true?

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Postby Hyper Shinchan » Sat Dec 04, 2010 2:38 am

View Original Post1731298478 wrote:The source for this is page 180 of Schizo (『スギゾ・エヴァンゲリオン』180ページでの貞本義行の発言), and the person speaking is Sadamoto.

Do you have any additional info about this book, when was it published? Is it possible that Sadamoto was referring to Adam but implying that it was Lilith (I strongly doubt it, usually you give these infos only after the anime is finished)?
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Postby LiLi » Sat Dec 04, 2010 2:44 am

^According to amazon.co.jp, it was published in 1997.

Thanks for the informative post, 1731298478 (can I call you 1731?)
These books look interesting...
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Postby Hyper Shinchan » Sat Dec 04, 2010 2:50 am

So it's probably not the case (unless the interview was older than the book), thank you for the clarification Lili.
LiLi wrote:(can I call you 1731?)

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So let’s make a wish.
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From the book “All About Nagisa Kaworu: A Child of Evangelion”.

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Postby 1731298478 » Sat Dec 04, 2010 2:54 am

View Original PostLiLi wrote:Thanks for the informative post, 1731298478 (can I call you 1731?)


Of course! ^^

Hyper Shinchan wrote:Let's worship the value of the CTRL+C/CTRL+V combo.


My apologies for that ^^

Anyway, here's the pages for both books on Amazon.
http://alturl.com/io5v3
http://alturl.com/7f37j

Schizo was discussed briefly before.
http://forum.evageeks.org/viewtopic.php?t=9405

I've seen some excerpts from these books, but never the full thing.

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Postby LiLi » Sat Dec 04, 2010 3:25 am

^I was just in the process of ordering from amazon.co.jp's marketplace. ;)

I should hopefully get them within a week or so.
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Postby Hyper Shinchan » Sat Dec 04, 2010 3:32 am

View Original PostLiLi wrote:^I was just in the process of ordering from amazon.co.jp's marketplace. ;)

I should hopefully get them within a week or so.

Good news, Lili. Maybe from the contest it'll make sense.
1731298478 wrote:My apologies for that ^^

Nah, my nick is also quite stupid and it's usually abbreviated (but mainly because it's stupid). And thank you for bringing the attention on that Sadamoto's phrase.
So let’s make a wish.
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From the book “All About Nagisa Kaworu: A Child of Evangelion”.

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Postby 1731298478 » Sat Dec 04, 2010 3:33 am

View Original PostLiLi wrote:^I was in the process of ordering from amazon.co.jp's marketplace. :)

I should hopefully get them within a week or so.


O_O.... すごい~!

I will say, I'm under the impression that the roundtables (and maybe the interviews) are a bit... strange at times, but apparently very revealing. IIRC, I've seen speculation that there was drinking involved.... ^^

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Postby LiLi » Sat Dec 04, 2010 3:41 am

View Original Post1731298478 wrote:I've seen speculation that there was drinking involved.... ^^


That seems indeed very likely. And I'm (half) serious. ;)

There are some other books I'm looking into, like that End of Evangelion book attributed to Anno... but before ordering I need to find more info... I gave Khara/Gainax enough money as it is! :lol:

PS: Do we have a dedicated thread to discuss things such as these? :rei_blush:
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Postby Hyper Shinchan » Sat Dec 04, 2010 3:41 am

View Original Post1731298478 wrote:I will say, I'm under the impression that the roundtables (and maybe the interviews) are a bit... strange at times, but apparently very revealing. IIRC, I've seen speculation that there was drinking involved.... ^^

Actually I was suspecting since the beginning but I didn't say anything since I've a lot of respect for Sadamoto.
EDIT:
PS: Do we have a dedicated thread to discuss things such as these?

Such as this book? Maybe the old thread linked by 1731298478 could do the job.
So let’s make a wish.
“Please let me redo again.”
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From the book “All About Nagisa Kaworu: A Child of Evangelion”.

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Postby LiLi » Sat Dec 04, 2010 3:48 am

Back to the topic at hand... and relating to the info brought up by 1731... IIRC, in the (in)famous ep.24 drafts the Giant in the Basement was said to be ADAM, not Lilith... maybe Sadamoto's line goes back to this unused concept? (In their crazy rush to finish Eva they forgot to fax him the latest developments or the interview actually dates back to a bunch of months before the publication of the book?)

Also, getting drunk with your co-workers is nothing to be embarrassed about here in Japan, it seems. :lol:
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Postby Hyper Shinchan » Sat Dec 04, 2010 4:05 am

View Original PostLiLi wrote:Back to the topic at hand... and relating to the info brought up by 1731... IIRC, in the (in)famous ep.24 drafts the Giant in the Basement was said to be ADAM, not Lilith... maybe Sadamoto's line goes back to this unused concept? (In their crazy rush to finish Eva they forgot to fax him the latest developments or the interview actually dates back to a bunch of months before the publication of the book?)

Now this is an interesting idea, I wasn't remembering that part from those drafts; it's a possible explanation, it seems rather solid but in 1997 he was aware of that (I suppose), it'd work only if (as I supposed) the interview is older than that year.
So let’s make a wish.
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Postby LiLi » Wed Dec 08, 2010 9:55 am

@1731&HSC:
Got the books (both Schizo & Parano) in the mail today. Still haven't gotten around to unwrapping them, but here they are. ;)
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Postby 1731298478 » Wed Dec 08, 2010 7:46 pm

View Original PostLiLi wrote:@1731&HSC:
Got the books (both Schizo & Parano) in the mail today. Still haven't gotten around to unwrapping them, but here they are. ;)


Well, I think there's no doubt that they are going to be very strange, and very interesting books.

On 2ch, there's a particular excerpt that has circulated a few times. As this is 2ch, I don't know 100% if it's real, except that someone at one point posted the page reference (Parano p. 95 first edition), and it seems consistent with what Anno has said elsewhere. In it, he basically says that he more or less cut Rei out of Eva after Episode 6 because he didn't know how to develop her any further after she smiled. In addition he has no empathy with Rei and doesn't understand her; she is related to him only through his "unconscious". In this interview Anno says something to the effect that he (consciously) identifies with Shinji, Asuka, and Misato, but Kaworu and especially Rei belong to his unconscious (Kaworu is his "shadow").

I wonder if comments like this shed any light on "Rebuild"?

The other purported excerpts I've seen are from a very "loose" Masayuki/Tsurumaki/Sadamoto roundtable. They seemed to be real, but I can't be sure, and I've never gone through them. The conversation looked...very strange. Actually I think I also saw something from the "Devilman and the Oedipus Complex" section from Schizo, and that also seemed pretty strange.

Anyway, I don't know if/when you have time to look at them, but I'd be very interested to hear your thoughts on these books!

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Postby LiLi » Thu Dec 09, 2010 2:58 am

View Original Post1731298478 wrote: As this is 2ch, I don't know 100% if it's real, except that someone at one point posted the page reference (Parano p. 95 first edition), and it seems consistent with what Anno has said elsewhere. In it, he basically says that he more or less cut Rei out of Eva after Episode 6 because he didn't know how to develop her any further after she smiled.


I took a quick peek at Parano. From what I can tell the bit about Rei's smile and her lack of development afterwards is an excerpt from p.96: after she smiled, it seems Anno suddenly realized her character development was "done", so to speak. (There is also more about Rei in p.95 et al.)

This is especially interesting to me, since I was under the impression they didn't know how to portray her after that... so they just cut her screen-time drastically. This partly confirms it, to an extent, and partly sheds a new light on things... Thank you for sharing this interesting find. :emogendo:
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Postby Sailor Star Dust » Fri Dec 10, 2010 3:15 am

View Original PostLiLi wrote:like that End of Evangelion book attributed to Anno... but before ordering I need to find more info...


FWIW, I asked Reichu about the book awhile ago and she said it's nothing informative. Apparently it has random episode phrases (for instance: ep 20 "A soup of life, huh?" ep 26' "This is the world you wished for.") strung together.

Also: nice find about Rei-chan!
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Postby Reichu » Fri Dec 10, 2010 3:25 am

A while ago? It was only 11/27. :tongue:

Reichu wrote:I have that book [Boku to iu shingo], and it’s nothing special. Just bits of script from the entire show rearranged into “chapters” about… who the fuck knows. (Maybe some loose association process. “Where are we?” “LCL Sea.” “The contents of the plug have chemically altered to resemble the blah blah…” “A soup of life, huh?”) Book is mostly some kind of graphic design exercise. Much more interesting Eva books out there.


I'll have to split this thread later...

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Postby LiLi » Fri Dec 10, 2010 3:27 am

^Ah, I see. I guess that's why amazon said it was...poetry or something to that effect IIRC! :lol:

Thanks for the info. I agree that my preciousss might be better spent on hunting for other things ATM. ;)

:EDIT: Please do, Reichu.

:EDITTRUE^2: BTW, are the Proposal pages all in one issue of Evangelion Chronicle or would I have to buy all of them? Can I get away with buying the digest versions? (I checked the wiki but couldn't figure it out... thanks for any input!)
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Postby Reichu » Fri Dec 10, 2010 3:41 am

Will have to split after sleep... Regarding Proposal pages, I have no idea if they're in the Digests. Some research would be required to find out. In the regular issues, the Proposal is spread out -- gotta catch 'em all!

If you want high-res scans or something so you can conserve your moneys, I might still have them in my backups somewhere -- my NGE pics are still a total mess after HD crashes from a year ago --; otherwise, they'd be easy enough to redo. I'd be more than willing to provide, since the whole thing was never translated, and the translations that were done haven't been double-checked, and I can always hope... :wink:

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Postby SaltyJoe » Fri Dec 10, 2010 7:17 am

View Original Post1731298478 wrote:but Kaworu and especially Rei belong to his unconscious (Kaworu is his "shadow").

As in, the Jungian term? That would be mighty interesting. Many have alraedy said that it would be wothvile to try and push NGE through a Jungian filter as a from of analysis. That interview sounds like a really fascinating find.

he (consciously) identifies with (...), Asuka, and Misato

Anno really must have had a thing for guys with ponytails when he made NGE.This quip is supposed to be funny.
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