Real world military vehicles

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Postby UrsusArctos » Fri Dec 06, 2013 7:37 pm

Oh, that? *Tweaks wording* Now I've removed any ambiguity. Nobody has identified the Iowas in 3.0 as far as I know. As for the other American carriers, you can see their hull number painted on the bow - for instance, 62 is the Independence and 78 is the Gerald Ford (which is incomplete in real life). Kuznetsov's paint scheme is different from that of Liaoning, which was still incomplete at the time the show was being made, so the carrier in question has to be Kuznetsov. Liaoning was completed only in late 2012, too late for it to be included in 3.0.
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Postby El Squibbonator » Fri Apr 11, 2014 8:29 am

I thought this deserved a mention also. In the first movie, you know those weird three-rotored helicopters that lower the positron rifles into position? Those are real. Or rather, they're based on a real design by a real company.

http://www.aviastar.org/helicopters_eng/mi-32.php
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Postby ElMariachi » Fri Apr 11, 2014 9:36 am

^
The soviets were really crazy, or awesome, probably both at the same time! :lol:

The fact that weird flying triangle was an actual project comfort me in the belief that the responsible of Military Material of NERV is a big military nerd that took advantage of NERV's almost unlimited funds to make real all the crazy projects from the Cold War! :hitthetable:
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Postby El Squibbonator » Sun Apr 13, 2014 9:30 pm

Also, the VTOLs that show up all the time in the show, while they may not be real aircraft, do call to mind a real jet fighter with rotating engines: the VJ-101. This was actually the first VTOL airplane ever to exceed Mach 1.
http://www.aviastar.org/air/germany/vj-101.php
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Postby Gob Hobblin » Sun Apr 13, 2014 9:34 pm

Rotating engines is something many military forces have tried to get in their aircraft for a long time, especially regarding transport craft. If you could have an aircraft with the speed of a plane and the landing ability of a helicopter, you'd have one of the best strike deployment/logistical support nets in the world.
Though, Gob still might look good in a cocktail dress.
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Re: Real world military vehicles

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Postby TMBounty_Hunter » Tue Jul 01, 2014 7:24 pm

View Original PostHyper Shinchan wrote:Type 90
Country: Japan
Appears in: Rebuild 2.22 (more research is needed for the exact moment in which is shown and to check if it's been used in other episodes as well)
Notes: it's mentioned in the Complete Works of 2.0 but I've not located it yet, it's somewhere in the movie but I'll probably have to watch it all since I can't remember where it appeared.


So for various reasons I have come across this. Have the relevant pics.

Type 90 3DCG model from CRC 2.0  SPOILER: Show
Image


Where it appears in the movie:

C-0164  SPOILER: Show
Image


C-0165  SPOILER: Show
Image


C-0946A  SPOILER: Show
Image


Also possibly C-0947 but it's too tiny to make a positive ID  SPOILER: Show
Image
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Re: Real world military vehicles

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Postby ElMariachi » Wed Jul 02, 2014 3:33 am

View Original PostTMBounty_Hunter wrote:
Also possibly C-0947 but it's too tiny to make a positive ID  SPOILER: Show

Well, if you zoom on the tanks you can see the two antennas behind the turret, which aren't present in the other types of battletanks used by NERV in Tokyo-3 (the Types 74 and Challengers 2 seen in 1.0)
and the shape of the turret is similar to that of the Type 80 ("flattened"), I think that we can conclude that those are also Types 80 in this shot.
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Kensuke is a military otaku who, at one point, is shown creepily taking pictures of girls to sell. He would clearly fit right in as an animator at Studio Gainax. -- Compiling_Autumn
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Seriously, that is the most fananked theory I've ever heard, more than Mari being Marty McFly travelling through time to keep her parents (Asushin) together. -- Jäeger

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Postby TMBounty_Hunter » Mon Jul 28, 2014 6:55 pm

The wiki is still missing a few ships from 3.0

Kongo-class destroyer:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kong%C5%8D-class_destroyer
SPOILER: Show
Image


Kongo in top right, Arleigh Burke in top left, both types are in the fleet  SPOILER: Show

Image
Image



Slava-class cruiser:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slava-class_cruiser
SPOILER: Show
Image



Hyuga-class helicopter destroyer:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hy%C5%ABga-class_helicopter_destroyer
SPOILER: Show
Image



CVN-77 George H. W. Bush is specifically mentioned in the groundwork:
SPOILER: Show
Image



Another interesting thing is that the Iowa-class ships present are of the pre-refit variety
SPOILER: Show
Image
Image


And given the fact there's at least 5 of them there
SPOILER: Show
Image
Image

That raises a whole lot of questions of what their Evaverse history was.
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Postby UrsusArctos » Mon Jul 28, 2014 8:34 pm

The warships page is due for a cleanup, all right. I think I'd left out Arleigh Burkes and Kongos because both types were seen in Episode 08, so I didn't bother adding their entries a second time. Same for the Iowas. I didn't realize that the Slavas and Hyugas were present at all. Neither did I spot CVN-77.

As for the Iowas being the pre-refit variety...well, the 600-ship Navy had been started by Ronald Reagan in the 1980s, and the Iowas were refit at that time. Those big ol' bruisers were best used for shore bombardment, although someone reasoned that the belt armor would stop things like the Exocet and other sea-skimming anti-ship missiles (nukes, those giant Russian anti-ship missiles and torpedoes would be an entirely different ball game). It's possible that had Reagan canonically existed in the Evaverse, he did not authorize a complete refit of the Iowa-class, or the plan changed altogether. That there are 5 ships suggests that Illinois and Kentucky were completed afrer all.

By the way, could you look at the bridge structure of the Iowa model and tell me if it's the Iowa herself, or one of her sister ships? Iowa had a higher bridge than the others because she was meant as a flagship - IIRC, the same thing was done for South Dakota, which had two 5" DP mounts removed to compensate for the increased topweight.
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Postby TMBounty_Hunter » Mon Jul 28, 2014 9:34 pm

Honestly I'm still new to this whole ship thing and can barely catch most detail, so even looking at this picture: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:USS_Missouri_transfers.JPG
With Missouri and Iowa side by side I can't see the any height different in the bridge (i'm assuming that's the big row of windows?).


However I have discovered something else. The very first, extremely rough 3DCG model is actually of the refit:
SPOILER: Show
Image



And then as they start doing detail passes they ditch the missle tubes and go back to the loads of WWII guns
SPOILER: Show
Image
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Postby UrsusArctos » Tue Jul 29, 2014 3:48 am

I looked up the Iowa's bridge again and it turns out that the bridge was enlarged rather than raised for the Iowas, something that wouldn't be evident in such a photograph. They did, however, delete the 40mm mount on top of turret 2 (which has not been omitted from the Iowa model).

The Iowas all had open bridge structures and only later did they build those fully-enclosed bridge structures, with the New Jersey getting a rounded bridge structure (at least temporarily). It turns out, funnily enough, that only the Japanese ever fitted their battleships with elevators and fully enclosed bridges high in the bridge structure! (That's why Captain Okita uses an elevator of his own in the Yamato! :lol:)

Now that you point it out, it's pretty peculiar that the Iowas should go back to their World War Two gun armament rather than merely missing the "Christmas tree" antennae like Illinois and Kentucky did in Episode 08. Whoever was filling in the details probably bungled this, it's pretty ridiculous to avoid fitting in missile armament on those vessels.
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WAAAAAAAAGH!!!!!(<-link to lunacy)...Taste me, if you can bear it. (Warning: Language NSFW)
The main point of idiocy is for the smart to have their lulz. Without human idiocy, trolling would not exist, and that's uncool, since a large part of my entertainment consists of mocking the absurdity and dumbassery of the world, especially the Internet.-MaggotMaster

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Postby ElMariachi » Tue Jul 29, 2014 3:50 am

Very interesting, so the pre-refit design of the Iowas wasn't an error, but quite deliberate, as for the possible reasons!

  • following a Watsonian perspective :
    - maybe the devastation from 2I changed the needs of the navies, with a return of big conventional warfare between the surviving countries, leading to the construction of the two Iowas that were never finished back in WWII.

    - Or maybe they were commissioned by NERV, and since CIWS and rockets do nothing against Angels and their AT-Fields, they preferred build them with big canons and heavy machine guns, who are (very) marginally more efficient.

    - Or maybe that was commissioned by WILLE, at the time of Q they have anti-AT Field ammo that apparently only work as shells and Eva-sized bullets, and since missiles and CIWS are still useless against AT Fields (and even more and even more against NS throwing laser nets at your face!), they preferred to use the old pre-refit configuration which lots of canons and machine-guns that can be loaded with Anti-AT Field ammo?

    There's also the possibility that in either of the three cases, they lacked the resources for a refit and decided to build them pre-refit, and maybe downgrade the ones already refitted? Although IMHO that doesn't make sense, all theses big canons and machine-guns represent more metal than a bunch of missile tubes and CIWS.

  • following a Doylist perspective, that could had been just a caprice of Anno's inner WWII-era military nerd! :lol:

Anyway, you got those images from the 3.0 Groundwork, right?

Something I notice is that all the ships are either from the JMSDF, the US Navy or the Russian Navy. Well that does make sense since these three navies are present in the Pacific Ocean, although my little euro-centrist person would had like to see a couple of British or French ships, such as the Charles De Gaulle aircraft carrier, but they are probably patrolling in the Mediterranean Sea or Atlantic Ocean!
By the way, no idea if there are ships of the People's Liberation Army Navy? It would make sense that some of their ships are also present, unless some of the Sovremenniy-class destroyers are actually from the Chinese Navy?

EDIT: I made this little modification to help with identifying the ships:
SPOILER: Show
Click on the image for a larger version.
Image

I added the Chinese flag for the Sovremenny since it's not clear if the ship was from the Russian or Chinese Navy.

Do you think it's of good quality and I should put it on the wiki, or do you think there are some modifications to add?
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Kensuke is a military otaku who, at one point, is shown creepily taking pictures of girls to sell. He would clearly fit right in as an animator at Studio Gainax. -- Compiling_Autumn
EoTV is a therapist, EoE is a drill instructor. -- Chuckman
Seriously, that is the most fananked theory I've ever heard, more than Mari being Marty McFly travelling through time to keep her parents (Asushin) together. -- Jäeger

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Postby UrsusArctos » Tue Jul 29, 2014 11:29 am

Why not? It's good enough to go.

Hmm...I'll have to work out the formatting on that page sometime soon.
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Postby TMBounty_Hunter » Fri Jan 02, 2015 6:57 pm

I have discovered a thingi. So in the past year I've tried to diversify my model building instead of just doing tiny plastic robots I've expanded into military stuff. This inevitably led to buying stuff that's relevant to tiny plastic robots.

I've bought the Tamiya 1/35 Type-74 tank kit and wanted to paint it up like it was in the opening shots.

[wkimg]01_C005_big2.jpg[/wkimg]


Looking at the kit (and ignoring the lack of Infrared illuminator) there's clearly a problem:



Image



The barrels are different. There's a thingi at the base and the bore evacuator is different shape. But wait a minute!!



Image



That certainly looks like the barrel on-screen. The 2nd barrel is from a Type-90 model kit. It seems that what Anno and co have done is take the Type 74 tank, but instead of keeping the stock Royal Ordnance L7 105mm rifled gun, they gave it the Rheinmetall 120mm smoothbore gun that Japan wouldn't get until their next-gen tank. Maybe that explains the Type-76 designation that Explanation of Evangelion 1.01 gives. Looking through both the English and Japanese wikipedia pages for the Type 74, while it's still in service and has been upgraded quite a few times, it has never received the 120mm gun in real life. Yet another military thing in the Eva-verse that deviates from fleshbag-verse.

Additional photo reference:
Vanilla Type-74 with 105 gun(note bore evacuator shape):
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Japanese_-_Type_74_tank_-_2.jpg

Type-74 with 105 gun, but with thermal shroud (note bore evacuator still the same):
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:JGSDF_Type74_tank_(Public_Information_Center).jpg

Type-90 with 120mm gun(note bore evacuator shape and base of the barrel):
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Japanese_Type_90_Tank_-_1.jpg
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Japanese_Type_90_Tank_-_2.jpg



And another thing:


Image


We know the thing on the right is the Komatsu LAV.

The thing on the left isn't int he wiki yet but it looks like a variation of ATF Dingo.

Note the old Dingo 1 grill: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:ATF1_Dingo.jpg
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Postby TMBounty_Hunter » Sun Jan 04, 2015 12:53 pm

Going through the credits for Eva Q, under 取材協力 (Research cooperation?) they list the following:
護衛艦こんごう - Kongō, which we know about
護衛艦ひゅうが - Hyūga, which we know about
輸送艦おおすみ -
LST Ōsumi, which seems to have never been mentioned on the forum or wiki and upon preliminary inspection doesn't actually appear in the film.

Anyone bored enough to try and spot it?
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Postby UrsusArctos » Sun Jan 04, 2015 6:27 pm

The 120mm guns on the tanks are an interesting observation. Looks like someone actually thought through what a renovated tank would need to mount if it had to be effective in a modern combat environment.

However, I'm not sure just how practicable that conversion would be. The 105mm cannon is substantially less powerful than the 120mm cannon, which introduces all kinds of complications with the recoil absorption and the fit inside the turret ring. It's a smart idea in one sense - yes, there are vehicles that use weapons of the same size in comparably sized turrets (The T-72 mounting a 125mm cannon in a small turret) but that would necessitate an autoloader to deal with the cramped fit. Who cooked this particular conversion up, I wonder?
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Not knowing that Monk is bi is like not knowing the Pope is Catholic - ZapX.
You're either really bad at interpreting jokes or really good at pretending you are and I have no idea which.-Monk Ed
WAAAAAAAAGH!!!!!(<-link to lunacy)...Taste me, if you can bear it. (Warning: Language NSFW)
The main point of idiocy is for the smart to have their lulz. Without human idiocy, trolling would not exist, and that's uncool, since a large part of my entertainment consists of mocking the absurdity and dumbassery of the world, especially the Internet.-MaggotMaster


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