Commentary: Episode 05

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Postby ath » Tue Dec 28, 2010 5:15 am

View Original PostKendrix wrote:When will be doing the one for ep 6? And will we be doing this for Death, EoE and Rebuild as well? *hopes so* The scripts are allways pretty enlighthening.

Episode #06 is almost ready, it needs some finishing touches (for example, the music annotations) and a translation for the next ep previews. You can try asking our editor, thewayneac, he should know more about its status.

As for the other episodes, we have the storyboards for the entire TV series pretty much ready, but we still lack translations for any episode higher than #06 (with the exception of #19, but we haven't uploaded it yet). Unfortunately, OMF, the user which maintained contacts with our translators, is on a leave from the forum as he's busy with his PhD, so don't expect anything past #06 in the short term.

Where can I see the finished commentaries for eps 1 to 4?

http://wiki.evageeks.org/FGC
Well, they never were really "finished" ;) We plan to reopen them to comments, but haven't decided yet how or when. I guess I should just go and ask the others who work(ed) on them...

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Postby Kendrix » Tue Dec 28, 2010 10:21 am

Thanks for the information^^

Oh, and just one little addition:

264: I think he just had these Sunglasses lying around somewhere and just used those instead of bothering to buy new ones - He hardly cares about what he looks like, at least since Yui's "Death" - The glasses he had before that were simple, cheap plastic ones with thick lenses (As Commander of an organization like NERV, he should be able to afford better ones), he never zips his jacket, he stopped shaving some time after the contact experiment, his hair always looks somewhat messy (well, as messy as it gets with that hair leght), we never see him wearing anything but his Uniform in the present, and look at all these lines under his eyes... This is, of course, yet another parallel to Rei who only posseses 'functional' clothes, but could also serve to accentuate both his descent into despair after Yui's dissapearance, and his attitude that everyone hates him anyway - why should he bother to shave if there's no Yui to look at him anyway and he won't be improving everyone elses opinion of him no matter what he looks like?
Another aspect his looks could represent is that he's sort of 'above' such wordly things/too concerned with his world-changing work to think of zipping his jacket.
His 'rundown' appearance is also a contrast to Fuyutsuki with his perfectly neat hair and uniform, and Ritsuko, who despite being quite a workaholic herself, manages to always wear that awful lipstick and hair dye, not to mention that her skirts are even shorter than Misato's.

Tangent split to http://forum.evageeks.org/viewtopic.php?t=10495
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Postby thewayneiac » Tue Jan 04, 2011 11:58 am

Kendrix wrote:277: when you first watch the series, you think that Ritsuko is presented as Mrs. Competent/reason-oriented and are shocked when you find out what a monster she is, but if you rewatch it, you notice all those jealous looks...


Isn't "monster" more than a little harsh? She's ruthless and willing to do what it takes to get her job done. She goes off the deep end starting in Ep. 23 of course, but with good reason. But I can't really see her throttling a 4 year old child like her mother did.
Rejoice, glory is ours. Our young men have not died in vain. Their graves need no flowers. The tapes have recorded their names.
I am all there is.
Negative! Primative! Limited! I let you live.
But I gave you life.
What else could you do?
To do what was right.
I'm perfect, are you?

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Postby Kendrix » Tue Jan 04, 2011 4:04 pm

View Original Postthewayneiac wrote:Isn't "monster" more than a little harsh? She's ruthless and willing to do what it takes to get her job done. She goes off the deep end starting in Ep. 23 of course, but with good reason. But I can't really see her throttling a 4 year old child like her mother did.


I don't really dislike her because of the "harsh measures/doing her job" thing, everyone in NERV has their moments. But after that smile in ep 23, I couldn't help but feel creeped out. That's when I realized that the reasonable, somewhat cool and more or less nice person we got to see during the rest of the series helping her young assistant and worrying about the children and Misato was as fake as her hair color. It just creeped me out and her comments in 24 just made it worse... yes, she didn't kill any little girls, but Naoko at least showed some regret/killed herself afterwards - Ritsuko vents her Anger at the clones with a very, very uncanny smile on her face
Yes, in the end, she's just a sad and lonely person that got screwed over, but there's something about her I just can't help but feel disgusted by...

If you insist on it for the sake of neutrality, just replace "what a monster she is" with "what kind of person she really is".
And I know an eighteenth charm, and that charm is the greatest of all, and that charm I can tell to no man, for a secret that no one knows but you is the most powerful secret there can ever be.

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Postby tehprognoob » Tue Jan 04, 2011 4:20 pm

she said if she screws up again that bitch will never pilot again about Asuka
that made her the symbol of asukahatred in fandom.
shes a monstah

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Postby Mr. Tines » Tue Jan 04, 2011 4:49 pm

View Original Posttehprognoob wrote:she said if she screws up again that bitch will never pilot again about Asuka
This is why we don't do dubs.
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Postby BiQ » Tue Jan 04, 2011 5:01 pm

View Original Posttehprognoob wrote:she said if she screws up again that bitch will never pilot again about Asuka


...one of these days, I think I must suffer through the dub simply to start to understand wtf goes on with evangelion fandom...

*scrapes his brain from the floor*

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Postby thewayneiac » Tue Jan 04, 2011 7:14 pm

The "little bitch" line was added to the Platinum dub; it wasn't present in the original "Perfect Collection" dub, proving once again that ADV didn't learn their lesson the first time around.

Kendrix wrote:If you insist on it for the sake of neutrality, just replace "what a monster she is" with "what kind of person she really is".


Neutrality isn't neccessary in the commentary. I just wanted you to elaborate on your feelings about Ritsuko.
Rejoice, glory is ours. Our young men have not died in vain. Their graves need no flowers. The tapes have recorded their names.
I am all there is.
Negative! Primative! Limited! I let you live.
But I gave you life.
What else could you do?
To do what was right.
I'm perfect, are you?

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Postby Kendrix » Wed Jan 05, 2011 5:00 am

Still, the mere fact that some of my contributions were accepted makes me feel honored^^
And I know an eighteenth charm, and that charm is the greatest of all, and that charm I can tell to no man, for a secret that no one knows but you is the most powerful secret there can ever be.

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Postby Xard » Fri Jan 07, 2011 12:59 pm

Might as well finally take part in this! A lot of ground has already been covered so I doubt I'll have that many comments.


**********************

109: this type of nigh-static slo mo shot is real anime cliche and especially common in older shows. This is one of the few instances in NGE when tricks like this are used.

114: This is one of my favourite shots in whole show. Coupled with nigh-identical 123 it beautifully summarizes much of Rei's personality and place in the world. I guess it's not as iconic as various "Rei and the moon" shots throughough the show but for me it's just as classic moment.

149: I guess the presence of many "animesque" elements throughout this scene are explained by the fact Junichi Satoh (director of Aria, Princess Tutu etc.) made the storyboards (credited as Kiichi Jinme). Platinum booklets specifically draws attention to this:

"The storyboards were done by Kiichi Jinme, a.k.a. Junichi Satoh, the same as for Episode Four. Rei's girlishly delighted look when Gendo appears and the comedy during the dinner scene where Misato pours curry into her ramen are distinctively Jinme's storyboard style."

Those of us who have seen man's own works propably go "ahh, figures" upon reading this.

158: More Junichi Sato faces by Misato.

176: The whole 174-177 sequence is highly reminiscent of Anno's second live action film Shiki Jitsu (2000) in terms of cinematography and editing. 176's striking use of architecture in composition is particularly reminiscent of style Anno depicts similar staircases and rundown apartment building in the film with. The never stopping sound of building demolition is another link between two works. Given that SJ takes place in Ube, Anno's childhood hometown, I wonder if the look and feel of Rei's apartment block was influenced by his own past.

195: [If I ever get around continuing/finishing my goddamn ginormous Eva analysis I'll propably go in further detail but I guess my theory about Gendo's old glasses in "Rei Arc" (eps 5-6) is worth a brief rundown here] Whatever the in-universe reasons for the act were (I think simple curiosity is enough) I think there's important thematic subtext in this scene/act and with Gendo's old glasses in general and what their usage says about relationship between Shinji and Rei in this two-ep "Rei Arc". For one there's Shinji's symbolic "identification" with Gendo by the act of putting glasses on - given what follows right after the Oedipal overtones are hard to miss.

More importantly however Gendo's glasses work as a medium that conveys what defines relationship between Rei and Shinji at this point. Or to be more specific, how they see each other. The previous scene[link to 127] in the episode where Shinji literally observed/gazed at Rei was defined by Gendo's presence and bewilderment and jealousy Shinji felt when he saw Rei talking with Gendo. "Who is this girl and what is her relationship with my father?". This is the main driving motivation behind Shinji's wish to know more about Rei.

In other words: Shinji sees Rei first and foremost through "Gendo" and nature of his connection with Rei

And in this scene Shinji sees Rei through Gendo's glasses which symbolize him throughout the series! The fact Shinji put on his glasses also is literally the trigger for the first real interaction (haw haw) between the two.

( And of course the fact they needed something that would get us the uncomfortableness of what soon happens is important factor ;) )

196: [Continuation of the above theory] ...and right next we get pov shot from Shinji's perspective in which we see blurred figure of Rei through said glasses. They went to the point of blurring the shot and adding cracks as if the glasses were pressed against fictitious "camera". This level of accuracy in pov shots isn't very common and calls attention to itself - they really went to extra lenghts to give us shot of Rei through Gendo's glasses.

The ramification of the motif and "countershot" for this cut must wait 'till ep 6, however.

204: Editing through this whole scene is marvelous but I'd like to give a shout out to the way cuts are spliced together through 202-209, something even platinum booklet noted:

"The eccentric way the cuts were split up when Shinji visits Rei's apartment was also memorable."


219: kyaa~

221: I find it funny they felt need to put in censoring obstacle in this shot as it's far less revelatory than anything we saw before. Maybe they inserted it because the lamp returns in final shot of the scene as major part of the composition. Then again, common sense says that lamp is in 236 because it is here, not other way around.

225: *JIIIII*

236: By having the same lamp and only slightly changed angle from 221 minus Rei really drives the point home that Shinji was just left there behind as if the embarrasing sequence had never happened. Nice shot too

238: If we didn't know Shinji is incredibly awkward socially this sequence would be incredibly creepy. Oh wait, it still is

285: Anno really has a fetish for putting phones down. I can't even count how many times they change scene or focus of the scene by inserting quick cut of somebody putting the phone down and usually reporting whatever just was discussed.

This is one storytelling motif that will become very, very familiar for us through the series. It does add a nice "punch" to proceedings though so it's not a bad habit.

This habit is also present in his other works, in fact Anno used it already back in Return of Ultraman tokkusatsu parody film he directed back in early 80s

298: how delusional I am if Rei's expression or something about her face reminds me of a frickin' owl?

310: @jetatomic: could've happened between 309-310

317: This scene was terrific in Rebuild. Yes it does convey Shinji's pain in original too (thanks to Ogata's screaming in large part) but 1.0's take was downright torturous to watch.

Tsuzuku: *DUN DUN DUN*


*************

It's a bit hard to elaborate on my take on Gendo's glasses and Rei and Shinji in this format, especially since ep 6 is not avalaible yet (when is it coming out?) but I think it came out ok :)

As you can see I focused on cuts without much commentary yet and in general tried to bring less-used perspective in my comments (FreakyFilmFan is one that offered the most cinematic commentary too so I avoided parts he discussed :) )

You can put 204 comment on any shot between 202-208 if 204 is a bit crowdy (I guess 202 would be second best option) if you want to include my comments.
ran1: Oh gosh this sentence gave me an internet boner. You're so tsundere.
Mugwump: Goddamn it, Xard! Take me in your arms, you magnificent sex god bastard!
And don't forget to wear the Ran mask.
Eva Yojimbo: You really are the Otaku equivalent of a Catholic and Jew rolled up into one giant dakimakura of guilt.
Gob Hobblin: Sanctimonious, subtly racist, vaguely misogynist, somehow says something while at the same time saying...nothing, really, at all....

Nice, Xard. That's nice.

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Postby Kendrix » Fri Jan 07, 2011 1:33 pm

195: @ Xard: Thanks for pointing it out, but I'd interpret this a bit differently: When you put on someone else's glasses, you see the world as blurred as their owner sees it without glasses.
This glasses are Rei's most valuable possesion (they were placed in the way of the only ray of light entering the appartment. Someone's house is aways a private place that shows that person's way of living, an intimate 'inner sanctum'. And the glasses are the relic of Rei's sanctum) and perhaps Shinji even figured out that they're Gendo's.
He's trying to understand both Rei and Gendo, so him putting the glasses on could simply mean that he's trying to see the world through their Eyes, which is what the eloborate perspective cut is meant to emphasize - and of course, while he has been fascinated by her all the time, her connections to Gendo are a further incentive for Shinji to seek her out - He wants to become part of Gendo's world, his efforts to 'see the world like Gendo does' are one of the many things that draw him to Rei, a person that Gendo puts his trust in - However, I don't think Rei's connections to Gendo are EVERYTHING that intrests Shinji about her or influences the way he sees her. He is about to make his own experiences with Rei.
And I know an eighteenth charm, and that charm is the greatest of all, and that charm I can tell to no man, for a secret that no one knows but you is the most powerful secret there can ever be.

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Postby Xard » Fri Jan 07, 2011 3:45 pm

View Original PostKendrix wrote:195: @ Xard: Thanks for pointing it out, but I'd interpret this a bit differently: When you put on someone else's glasses, you see the world as blurred as their owner sees it without glasses.
This glasses are Rei's most valuable possesion (they were placed in the way of the only ray of light entering the appartment. Someone's house is aways a private place that shows that person's way of living, an intimate 'inner sanctum'. And the glasses are the relic of Rei's sanctum) and perhaps Shinji even figured out that they're Gendo's.
He's trying to understand both Rei and Gendo, so him putting the glasses on could simply mean that he's trying to see the world through their Eyes, which is what the eloborate perspective cut is meant to emphasize - and of course, while he has been fascinated by her all the time, her connections to Gendo are a further incentive for Shinji to seek her out - He wants to become part of Gendo's world, his efforts to 'see the world like Gendo does' are one of the many things that draw him to Rei, a person that Gendo puts his trust in - However, I don't think Rei's connections to Gendo are EVERYTHING that intrests Shinji about her or influences the way he sees her. He is about to make his own experiences with Rei.


The other half of this interprepation depends on ep 6 and so I can't really touch it yet. In fact it was the ep 6 scene that initially gave me the idea. In any case I don't think the full picture I got is compatible with this, though I'm not 100% sure.
ran1: Oh gosh this sentence gave me an internet boner. You're so tsundere.
Mugwump: Goddamn it, Xard! Take me in your arms, you magnificent sex god bastard!
And don't forget to wear the Ran mask.
Eva Yojimbo: You really are the Otaku equivalent of a Catholic and Jew rolled up into one giant dakimakura of guilt.
Gob Hobblin: Sanctimonious, subtly racist, vaguely misogynist, somehow says something while at the same time saying...nothing, really, at all....

Nice, Xard. That's nice.

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Postby Kendrix » Fri Jan 07, 2011 3:52 pm

View Original PostXard wrote:The other half of this interprepation depends on ep 6 and so I can't really touch it yet. In fact it was the ep 6 scene that initially gave me the idea. In any case I don't think the full picture I got is compatible with this, though I'm not 100% sure.


Well, it's meant to be interpreted differently by different ppl anyway. This is the great thing about EVA: You can talk about it.

I can't wait to do the rest of the anime (and, now that we're at it, the movies as well XD)
And I know an eighteenth charm, and that charm is the greatest of all, and that charm I can tell to no man, for a secret that no one knows but you is the most powerful secret there can ever be.

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Postby Combs » Fri Jan 07, 2011 8:17 pm

Scene 1, Cut 44: Rei has been blasted, groped, slapped, blown up, spliced and absorbed, but this is one of the few scenes in Eva that makes me cringe. Goddamn whiplash.

Scene 07, cut 264: Square frame glasses are SO 2013.

Scene 07, cut 268: I have wondered that too. Perhaps it's akin to the rods and cones dancing around in your eyes when you wake up, as the eva is "awakened" when contact is established. I have yet to see circular fractal patterns, however.

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Postby Kendrix » Sun Jan 09, 2011 4:57 pm

Just 4 lulz: Will we be doing the alternate Life Action scene from EoE? (When we're finished with the Series, of course)
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Postby Xard » Sun Jan 09, 2011 7:14 pm

So, any idea when we get to ep 6? :)
ran1: Oh gosh this sentence gave me an internet boner. You're so tsundere.
Mugwump: Goddamn it, Xard! Take me in your arms, you magnificent sex god bastard!
And don't forget to wear the Ran mask.
Eva Yojimbo: You really are the Otaku equivalent of a Catholic and Jew rolled up into one giant dakimakura of guilt.
Gob Hobblin: Sanctimonious, subtly racist, vaguely misogynist, somehow says something while at the same time saying...nothing, really, at all....

Nice, Xard. That's nice.

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Postby EvangelionFan » Sun Jan 09, 2011 7:32 pm

I'm looking forward to Ep 6, especially with all of the varied commentary for Ep5. In the meantime, is it possible for those of us who missed the opportunity before to offer commentary for the first four episodes?
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Postby ath » Mon Jan 10, 2011 4:49 am

View Original PostKendrix wrote:Just 4 lulz: Will we be doing the alternate Life Action scene from EoE? (When we're finished with the Series, of course)

Find us a good translator who can help with the script and we'll get there faster ;). Really, the biggest thing holding the Commentary back is the translation, and it doesn't help that the editors that are currenly working on the FGC don't know enough moonspeak to translate the script without help (by the way, I wonder why the Translators Needed thread has been locked).

As I said in my previous post, #06 is almost ready, we only really need a translation for the previews at the end of the episode, especially the longer 30" version that isn't included in the ADV Platinum. Do you know a Japanese speaker that can spare a few minutes to help us with it? The previews aren't included in the scripts, so we need someone who can understand spoken Japanese.

View Original PostEvangelionFan wrote:In the meantime, is it possible for those of us who missed the opportunity before to offer commentary for the first four episodes?

I'm sorry, I said that I would ask the others that worked on the Commentary but I haven't actually done it yet. I'll ask later today, I promise (do they even read this thread?)

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Postby thewayneiac » Mon Jan 10, 2011 10:27 am

Like Ath said, Ep. 06 is nearly finished. Translation hasn't even stated on Ep. 07, so we'll probably re-open Eps. 01-04 after 06 while we are waiting for 07.
Rejoice, glory is ours. Our young men have not died in vain. Their graves need no flowers. The tapes have recorded their names.
I am all there is.
Negative! Primative! Limited! I let you live.
But I gave you life.
What else could you do?
To do what was right.
I'm perfect, are you?

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Postby Kendrix » Mon Jan 10, 2011 11:00 am

View Original Postthewayneiac wrote:Like Ath said, Ep. 06 is nearly finished. Translation hasn't even stated on Ep. 07, so we'll probably re-open Eps. 01-04 after 06 while we are waiting for 07.


YAY!

EDIT: Okay, this is definitely the last addition. I'm sorry. My last attempt to pint this thing out ended up a little... confusing which is probably while you guys didn't select it, but I'll make one last try at getting my point across because I think it might not be unimportant - if this gets rejected again, I won't complain or anything.. it's just one intresting thing I noticed when I rewatched the ep for the 10000th time:

204: Look closely, expecially at the latter frames. to answer NemZ's question, Shinji falls forwards instead of backwards because after he slipped backwards, he tried to hold on to Rei in his struggle for balance and Rei was before and not behind him. In fact they both (conciously or not) have the "glorious" idea of clinging to each other for support at the same time perhaps displaying some sort of instinctive trust. In Shinji's case, this might be related to Rei resembling a certain someone, in Rei's case, Shinji's actions in episode 01 might have played their part, and both of them might be exhibiting the first signs of some inherent compatibility/chemistry.
And I know an eighteenth charm, and that charm is the greatest of all, and that charm I can tell to no man, for a secret that no one knows but you is the most powerful secret there can ever be.


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