Commentary: Episode 05

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Postby JC Denton » Mon Nov 08, 2010 11:14 am

well I'll especially pay attention to this on my upcoming 10th Eva run-through, but I never needed d&d concepts like soul splitting to understand what happens in Eva, thank you very much

can't see where Kyoko would come in in this theory, either; Eva-02, and what else...?
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Postby thewayneiac » Mon Nov 08, 2010 11:33 am

View Original PostJC Denton wrote:can't see where Kyoko would come in in this theory, either; Eva-02, and what else...?


Only the maternal aspects of Kyoko's soul went into Unit-02; the rest stayed with Kyoko. This explains why she doesn't recognize Asuka and why she didn't turn into LCL; she didn't lose her entire soul.

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Postby UrsusArctos » Mon Nov 08, 2010 11:35 am

View Original PostJC Denton wrote:I never needed d&d concepts like soul splitting to understand what happens in Eva


If it helps, you're hardly the only one to have trouble accepting the idea. Nevertheless, it's the only thing that works- and unless I'm mistaken, it's more or less confirmed somewhere... (bad memory on my end)
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Postby The Fourth Evangelion » Mon Nov 08, 2010 11:36 am

016: Let's Rock!

019: It seems that EVA-00 wants to cause less damage as possible at first. Instead of using one big blow to break free, she tries to build up power when she senses that she can't break free.
That, or the restraints are just REALLY strong.

027: It seems that her headache has only increased.

028: How can you be working THAT calmly when a Giant Biomecha with one hell of a headache slowly comes towards you?
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Postby Dr. Nick » Tue Nov 09, 2010 11:11 am

I notice I made a small typo here.

View Original PostDr. Nick wrote:201: Notice the rainbow. I bet that's symbolic, too.


This should have gone to cut 210, because that's where the rainbow effect is visible. I see wayne has placed it in 213, which might be close enough, though. It's just an anchor comment, so that once we reach the stupid and unfortunate territory of "is Shinji gay" speculations, I can link back to it and be a smart-ass.

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Postby Sailor Star Dust » Tue Nov 09, 2010 12:30 pm

View Original Postthewayneiac wrote:[url]http://wiki.evageeks.org/Classified_Information_(Translation)#The_Second_Children[/url]


Not sure why the CI didn't mention this, but the insane part of Kyoko went inside Eva-02 after she died. There's the two-times "Please die with me!" screaming admist the "You must live/Don't die/Don't kill her." lines in M25'.

Also, Rei-1 (in Eva-00) and Rei-2 after the 23' battle remerge.

...I wish there was more info on soul splittting and merging somewhere.
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Postby Logan Payne » Fri Nov 12, 2010 5:11 pm

View Original PostCody MacArthur Fett wrote:237: *reads caption* Really? Rei's hair is damp? Huh, I never noticed that. Perhaps it's a side effect of her hair color that water doesn't show up easily?


I figured it'd be in the spirit of the commentary to mention this is actually Law #32 of The Laws of Anime.

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Postby Cody MacArthur Fett » Sat Nov 13, 2010 2:27 am

View Original PostLogan Payne wrote:I figured it'd be in the spirit of the commentary to mention this is actually Law #32 of The Laws of Anime.

Hmm, would you believe I never heard of that document before coming here?

Also, just how of curiosity, just how long do these commentaries usually go for? I've got a lot of comments I want to make on episodes 7 and 8, so I want to know if I'm going to have to write them down and recall them in a couple of months.

Also, here's some additional comments, mostly responses though there is at least one new comment in there.

SPOILER: Show
Scene 02: 101: OK, allow be elaborate on my position. Shinji's position in the story is that of the Audience Surrogate, which means that his job is to act as the viewer would if they were to find themselves in his circumstances. This also means that while adapting a work an Audience Surrogate's mannerisms have to be slightly altered to fit the cultural norms so they can do their jobs effectively. In this particular instance a Japanese person would not curse but an American almost certainly would, thus Shinji curses in the ADV dub so that American viewers may more easily place themselves in his position.

As for the fandom influencing the dubbing: I don't believe that's the case, in fact I think it's the exact opposite. People's opinions of people like Gendo, or Asuka, or whoever, are the way they are because Evangelion is a tale told from Shinji's perspective. People only see things from Shinji's perspective most of the time, and as a result his opinions and biases start to become the viewers as well. It's sort of like a reverse case of Becoming The Mask, albeit with the added “benefit” of fandom Flanderization.

Also, I can't really comment on Ritsuko's treatment in the English dub since I haven't seen much of the Japanese dub (especially the parts dealing with Ritsuko) to compare it with, and even if I did I don't understand a lick of Japanese anyway. So for all I know she could be talking like the Japanese version of Gilbert Godfrey and I'd be none the wiser. It's just not something I can talk about with any degree of accuracy. Though it is worth noting that I never saw Ritsuko as being totally evil while watching the dub – mentally unstable in the last few episodes, sure, but not evil.

Scene 08: 299: You know, they may sound morbid, but I've always wondered how those holograms are projected. If it's just standard sci-fi magic then there's no problem, but if there's projectors in floor and ceiling combined with some kind of airborne nano particle dust to make the images then anybody who fell off the command platforms would go blind in addition to their broken bones and profuse bleeding. Not fun.

305: Ah! That makes perfect sense, which is a shame. There goes my theory of Ramiel's beam being super-heated molten steel fired from a gravity acceleration cannon powered by micro black holes, which I favor just because it sounds so much cooler then plasma beam or energy pro...ject...tor . . . Holy smokes! Ramiel's a singing Covenant Assault Carrier, we're all doomed! [obvious sarcasm]After all, it's not like there's still twenty episodes left in the series.[/obvious sarcasm]

Scene 05: 216: Hmm, I didn't remember that scene, not surprising since I tend to filter out most of the symbolism in Eva. Still, that doesn't at all mean that Rei isn't asexual, since asexuality is, quite simply, the absence of sexual attraction. We can still gain pleasure from sex on some level, and we most certainly still seek out human companionship, but things like breast size or pectoral muscles and the like just don't factor into that equation. So for me (and other asexuals) no [half-]naked man or woman in anime is ever fanservice, it is only annoying, disturbing, or meh.

Make sense?
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Postby Tsukaji » Sat Nov 13, 2010 6:04 am

028: Would it have been too hard to take battery out for testing purposes? Or does Eva need power for vital functions?

078: So they do not have any idea how angel's power source works and few months later they can mass produce it? That is some fast researching! They do not even know excatly what material angels are at this point.
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Postby thewayneiac » Sat Nov 13, 2010 11:47 am

View Original PostCody MacArthur Fett wrote:Also, just how of curiosity, just how long do these commentaries usually go for? I've got a lot of comments I want to make on episodes 7 and 8, so I want to know if I'm going to have to write them down and recall them in a couple of months.


Episode 06 should be up in a couple of months. I'm not sure if translation has even been started on Ep. 07. OMF is the one who in touch with our translators, and he is taking a little time off right now. I wouldn't expect 07 until spring at the earliest.

For an example of the way in which Ritsuko's personality was altered, go to the scene in ep. 23 where she is speaking on the phone to her grandmother. In Japanese she sounds genuinely concerned. In English she sounds like she is blowing her off. She practically sounds like "Don't call me, I'll call you, granny." Ritsuko comes off as a lot more one dimensional in the dub.
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Postby Logan Payne » Sat Nov 13, 2010 4:44 pm

View Original PostCody MacArthur Fett wrote:Hmm, would you believe I never heard of that document before coming here?


Blaspheme! Heresy! Treachery!

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Postby NemZ » Sat Nov 13, 2010 5:59 pm

007: Clearly the unit was ready for pylons to be added... so why didn't they bother? I'm thinking this is actually evidence that the pylons don't have anything at all do to with restraining the eva, even thought that makes very problematic to explain why Adam has them later.

010: So pylons aren't important but LED tags to identify the giant orange cyborg are? Why even include the light-up signage in the design, and not just paint it on? Clearly the same nutbar who put a skylight on the helmet is responsible for these.

016: And now the signs turn off? What, did the designers think they could pretend it was someone else's giant out of control cyborg?

018a: This is just about the silliest possible diagram for whatever this is supposed to be. Surely it would be better for things to actually be as readable as possible and skip the animation in favor of a simple color change for maximum ease of reference to the technical staff.

025: Why do the thrusters fire here, when that would serve to keep plug in the socket?

032: I get the feeling that at this moment Gendo is so lost in thought about the possibility that his grand plan has already failed that he simply doesn't notice the danger he's in until the last frame.

048: I'm guessing there's actually a short time-skip here. There's simply no way he would have been able to cover the distance involved.

059: This also finally explains that giant hand in the background of the episode 1 elevator scene.

072: I know it's just a common Japanese thing, but I can't look at Shinji in that helmet and not be reminded of the metools from Megaman.

077: the background voices offer the first hint of other Nerv bases, and specifically mentioning the German installation this acts as the second hint of Asuka's later arrival (the first being the pilot designations and an obviously missing number).

078: ...or perhaps Ritsuko isn't on the need-to-know list for that data. It probably isn't even supposed to still exist, what with Gendo's last minute escape from Antarctica and all.

080: Rainbow displays... where have we seen that before, hm?

093: Ritsuko looks strangely annoyed with him in the following cuts as well, at least for a little while.

106: Hmm, that's interesting. Might suggest she's she was intended to still be slightly injured and thus excused from participation.

108: ...yeah, that isn't a dunk. LoL Japan.

114: or perhaps they're calling out to him because he's staring in their direction? In any case, his complete lack of response should probably be rather off-putting to any of the 'fanclub' paying attention who haven't already started mentally rewritting him as a tragic prince.

120: Two comments for her legs but no mention of her butt, that which almost all her fanservice-y images seem to focus on? Peculiar.

123: To quote "Rei's poem" from ep 14: All of them the same. All of them useless.

129: The pylons stop at the green band. Above that is probably a lighter-weight version of the launching track.

132: How does he control the view's zoom function, I wonder?

more comments later...
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Postby thewayneiac » Sun Nov 14, 2010 10:47 pm

View Original PostNemZ wrote:
123: To quote "Rei's poem" from ep 14: All of them the same. All of them useless.


Could you elaborate on how that applies to this cut? Are you saying that she's sitting apart because she considers her classmates useless?
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Postby NemZ » Tue Nov 16, 2010 12:14 am

thewayneiac wrote:Could you elaborate on how that applies to this cut? Are you saying that she's sitting apart because she considers her classmates useless?


In the sense that they don't have a specific purpose like she has, yes. Even if Rei doesn't understand her feelings of loneliness I suspect she's built a solid rationalized defense against them all the same: a measure of contempt for these normal children, created without purpose or design.

016: From a metatextural standpoint, they probably disappeared when the action started purely to make it easier on the animation staff.

EDIT:

You left off the original "Rei's poem" comment for cut 123, which is rather important for the follow-ups to make any sense.

Also, Star Wars jokes are fine but my nod to Megaman wasn't worth inclusion?

141: Oh, I’m sure at least one apartment somewhere nearby has been converted into an outpost for the children’s security detail.

146: If she really thinks it’s good that way, why didn’t she make a cup o’ noodle for everyone? That’s a pretty big failure of hospitality.

161: What’s stopping her from dropping it off after dinner? Her motives here are quite dubious.

174: Why exactly are they being demolished anyway? Just designate the area a preferred location for confronting angels and let things play out. Besides, if the world’s going to end soon anyway and the city’s population is dwindling what do they really need the space for?

186: I thought that was black mold. This begs the question of just what the hell was burning to cause that.

190: Kinda makes you wonder why they weren’t paired up as roommates already, no?

192: Could be a sign that she’s strongly predisposed to following in Yui’s footsteps academically. Heck, they might even actually be from Yui’s library, given to Rei as a gift.

204: I’ve watched this several times and the mechanics of how he slips backwards but ends up falling forwards still makes no sense to me. I might as well be watching the JFK Zapruder tape.

219: Of course, because he expects punishment for this. After that he’s just plain baffled at her reactions or lack thereof.

231: Yep. Notice the bloody pillow in the corner of the frame.

245: I actually suspect that Rei was generally annoyed by Shinji’s existence from ep1 through the end of ep6. Merely by being here he is evidence of her failure to live up to the commander’s expectations.

247: Rei may not see a reason to show her nervousness, but her lack of comment earlier betrays her true feelings on the matter.

254: Rei’s faith in Gendo is the only thing keeping her moving, and he’s trying to undermine it right before she faces another possible failure in the commander’s eyes. Hell yes he had that coming.

255: So I suppose that confirms that Shinji is left handed?

260: They reused the frame(s) from her earlier smile at the glasses.

265: Oh hey, another rainbow in the background. Darn things are just everywhere in this episode.

268: “Normal shape typology” is a rather odd thing to concern oneself with. The shape of what?

Oh, and another rainbow snuck into the activation (and later deactivation) sequence.

298: I’ve lost count of the rainbows, and it’s surely no accident that the new angel is essentially a giant prism.

307: Where do the track extensions come from? They seem to just sort of quickly grow out of the top of the ones exposed here, and not in a telescoping manner.

312: It isn’t visible in the frames offered on the left, but if you watch carefully at the moment Ramiel fires there’s yet another rainbow effect centered on the point where the blast originates.
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Postby thewayneiac » Tue Nov 16, 2010 1:41 pm

View Original PostNemZ wrote:
You left off the original "Rei's poem" comment for cut 123, which is rather important for the follow-ups to make any sense.


Whoops! Duh.... fixed.

Also, Star Wars jokes are fine but my nod to Megaman wasn't worth inclusion?


I'm not familiar with Megaman, so I wanted to look up what you were talking about before I posted it. Then I forgot.
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Postby MasonFighter » Tue Nov 16, 2010 1:45 pm

View Original Postthewayneiac wrote:I'm not familiar with Megaman, so I wanted to look up what you were talking about before I posted it. Then I forgot.

Yeah, the "Mettaur" mooks from every Megaman game look similar to Shinji's helmet.
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Postby NemZ » Tue Nov 16, 2010 2:50 pm

for reference:

Image

These little guys (and many, many variations thereof) have been in every game in the main series and show up in some form in most of the spinoffs and cameo appearances of megaman as well.
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Postby thewayneiac » Tue Nov 16, 2010 3:47 pm

^ I added a link to that image to the cut.
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I am all there is.
Negative! Primative! Limited! I let you live.
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What else could you do?
To do what was right.
I'm perfect, are you?

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Postby NemZ » Tue Nov 16, 2010 4:39 pm

cool.

Oh, and can you just change my comment on 186 to:

"I thought that was black mold. This just rouses the further question of what the hell was burning to leave that much soot residue... perhaps a grease fire? Was it something that Rei did or is it leftover from previous tenants?"
Last edited by NemZ on Tue Nov 16, 2010 5:10 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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"Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize that half of 'em are stupider than that." - George Carlin
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Postby thewayneiac » Tue Nov 16, 2010 5:05 pm

^ Change made and my comment removed.
Rejoice, glory is ours. Our young men have not died in vain. Their graves need no flowers. The tapes have recorded their names.
I am all there is.
Negative! Primative! Limited! I let you live.
But I gave you life.
What else could you do?
To do what was right.
I'm perfect, are you?


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