EvaGeeks.org - an Evangelion Fan Community

Re: Kaji has Alzheimers

Eva Yojimbo — Fri Feb 23, 2007 4:43 am

Author: Eva Yojimbo

Posted: Fri Feb 23, 2007 4:43 am

I also think his wording of the line "they'll find out I diverted THE SAMPLE of Adam to Ikari" is strange. Sample? Huh? Did Kaji think there was more to Adam than just that embryo? A sample is generally something that is representative of the whole, so if Kaji believes the Adam he delivered to Gendo was a "sample", did he think perhaps the "Adam" in Terminal Dogma was the rest of him and they needed the sample for something?

Re: Kaji has Alzheimers

Eva Yojimbo — Fri Feb 23, 2007 4:34 am

Author: Eva Yojimbo

Posted: Fri Feb 23, 2007 4:34 am

Ok, let's look at some facts:

1. Kaji brings the Adam embryo to Gendo in episode 8.
2. Lilith is never referenced by anyone at that point in the series. In fact, we have no way of knowing whether or not Kaji or Misato knew there even was a Lilith.
3. Kaji had no reason to hide the truth from Misato. In fact, it seems throughout the series he's trying to find out Seele's/Gendo's plans and the truth behind everything as much as she is. Him sending her the capsule at the end is proof of this.
4. The only "Giant White Being" they've ever known has been Adam.

Ok, so what do we have here? Kaji has brought Gendo Adam, and then several episodes later we see him and Misato find Lilith on the cross, only to call it "Adam".

Why do we have any reason to believe that Kaji thought this was anything else but Adam? We have to figure he didn't know what Gendo's plans for Adam was, so when he walks in and finds Lilith, he figures "so this is why Gendo wanted Adam." Nobody would've ever guessed Gendo's ACTUAL plans for Adam.

I also think this was done for dramatic purposes. Think about this:

We see Gendo and Fuyutsuki referencing "The Adam Project." Now, the Adam Project might also involve Lilith. They already had Lilith, so they're calling it "The Adam Project" because I imagine the Gendo hand/Adam fusion couldn't have been easy. The Lance into Lilith could've also been part of this project.

Then we see Kaji/Misato find Lilith, and they assume it's Adam. Everything in the dialogue/show up to this point has suggested it's Adam, ergo the audience assumes it's Adam.

I think this was done to intentionally create the "WTF?" moment of ep. 24 when we finally learn that the being in Heaven's Door is ACTUALLY Lilith.

So I say chalk some of it up to dramatic effect and storytelling, but I think it also fits in with the story. Kaji made a mistake. He delivers Adam to Gendo, sees giant inside Terminal Dogma, figures giant for Adam, and so does the audience. There was some trickery alright, but it was done on the part of Anno to the audience, me thinks.

Re: Kaji has Alzheimers

Sailor Star Dust — Thu Feb 22, 2007 12:34 pm

Author: Sailor Star Dust

Posted: Thu Feb 22, 2007 12:34 pm

*sniff* I love that man. :cry: (No, not in the sick way Asuka does, LOL!)

Re: Kaji has Alzheimers

Anonymous_Evafan — Thu Feb 22, 2007 12:27 pm

Author: Anonymous_Evafan

Posted: Thu Feb 22, 2007 12:27 pm

Sailor Star Dust wrote:

Just wanted to ask because I can't remember the conclusion that was reached in the end: DID Kaji know Lilith=giant on cross and for God knows whatever reason, didn't bother telling Misato??

The only think I could think of is he either wants he to figure it out on her own (oh boy, a puzzle!) or he felt telling her then would not...um, be good? I dunno! :cry:

Well, he did sacrifice himself so SEELE wouldn't kill Misato, or worse.

ep #21 wrote:

KAJI:
Long time no see.
I've put the guards outside to sleep for a while.

FUYUTSUKI:
This will cost you your life.

KAJI:
I just want to get closer to the truth within myself.
Besides, it looks like they'll find out
that I diverted the sample of Adam to Commander Ikari,
so I have to guard my own interests too,
or various bad things will happen.

Re: Kaji has Alzheimers

Sailor Star Dust — Thu Feb 22, 2007 12:19 pm

Author: Sailor Star Dust

Posted: Thu Feb 22, 2007 12:19 pm

Just wanted to ask because I can't remember the conclusion that was reached in the end: DID Kaji know Lilith=giant on cross and for God knows whatever reason, didn't bother telling Misato??

The only think I could think of is he either wants he to figure it out on her own (oh boy, a puzzle!) or he felt telling her then would not...um, be good? I dunno! :cry:

Re: Kaji has Alzheimers

Sailor Star Dust — Sun Dec 03, 2006 9:43 pm

Author: Sailor Star Dust

Posted: Sun Dec 03, 2006 9:43 pm

Because of that Seele and Kaworu scene in 24', does that mean it IS a continuity/plot error since Kaworu thinks at first "white neekid giant on cross = Adam"??

Re: Kaji has Alzheimers

Anonymous_Evafan — Sun Dec 03, 2006 3:28 pm

Author: Anonymous_Evafan

Posted: Sun Dec 03, 2006 3:28 pm

zeaven wrote:

I still can't even remember if Ritsuko knows it's Lilith.

She never says if she does or not like many other things in NGE. I'd say she certainly does know it's Lilith on the cross.

Quote:

??:
And Adam, the progenitor of the Angels
who are the true successors from the lost white moon.

??:
His salvaged soul exists only within you.

KEEL:
However, his resurrected body already exists within Ikari.

KAWORU:
Shinji's father...
So, he is also the same as me.

Think about it who else other than Ritsuko and Fuyutsuki would know about that? I supose Kaji might have known. Fuyutsuki wasn't talking to SEELE, Ritsuko on the other hand was pissed at Gendo.

On a funny side note if Misato used her brain she should have noticed the beings she was massacring were human. Guess she wanted to get even with daddy too much to notice that.

Quote:

episode #20
MISATO:
What does that mean?! Just what is an Eva?!

RITSUKO:
It is something created by man in man's own image.
I really can't describe it any other way.

MISATO:
Something created by man?
Didn't you just copy what you found then at the South Pole?
I'm sure the original would be appalled to hear this.

RITSUKO:
This is not just a copy, because it is imbued with a human will.
----
MISATO:
The artificial human Evangelion...
----
episode #16
MISATO (MONO):
I know that the Evas aren't just copies of the First Angel.

I'm not quite sure why she was digging for info when it was right in front of her for the most part.

Re: Kaji has Alzheimers

jakewashere — Sat Dec 02, 2006 10:15 pm

Author: jakewashere

Posted: Sat Dec 02, 2006 10:15 pm

Shin-seiki wrote:

zeaven wrote:

Perhaps this entire discussion will be rendered irrelevant once Rebuild is done.

Tho it's too early to say for sure, there are some vague indications that Rebuild may be setting up a divergent continuity from the original series/movies. In which case, it's canonicity as regards issues such as this will be problematic, to say the least...

Well, it'll be different, but at least Anno's got the advantage of having had ten years to think about it.

Re: Kaji has Alzheimers

Sachi — Sat Dec 02, 2006 2:18 pm

Author: Sachi

Posted: Sat Dec 02, 2006 2:18 pm

Kaji is a secret Agent.
he only told Misato that that was Adam as a cover up
he knew that the monster on the cross was Lilith, but he just wouldnt tell Misato.

Re: Kaji has Alzheimers

Shin-seiki — Sat Dec 02, 2006 8:39 am

Author: Shin-seiki

Posted: Sat Dec 02, 2006 8:39 am

zeaven wrote:

Perhaps this entire discussion will be rendered irrelevant once Rebuild is done.

Quote:

The answer might also be that Anno worked Lilith into the plot way after the first 20 episodes had been produced.

Lilith's existence is (very cryptically) alluded to as early as #14. Also, keep in mind that Sachiel is the third Angel.

Re: Kaji has Alzheimers

zeaven — Sat Dec 02, 2006 7:39 am

Author: zeaven

Posted: Sat Dec 02, 2006 7:39 am

If people knew it was Lilith, maybe they could do some research and figure out what's really going on. And that's bad for Gendo and SEELE both. So they call it Adam all the time to confuse people.

A very unlikely idea is that Kaji called it Adam for Misato because he was trying to protect her? Maybe her having knowledge of Lilith would be crazy dangerous and get her on a kill list. I still can't even remember if Ritsuko knows it's Lilith.

The answer might also be that Anno worked Lilith into the plot way after the first 20 episodes had been produced.

Kaji would be a shitty spy if he had Alzheimer's. :P

Perhaps this entire discussion will be rendered irrelevant once Rebuild is done.

Re: Kaji has Alzheimers

MaggotMaster — Sun Nov 19, 2006 8:01 pm

Author: MaggotMaster

Posted: Sun Nov 19, 2006 8:01 pm

Crusaious27 wrote:

Or, the most likely explanation. The writers made an error!11!1one1 :o

GTFO we're trying to fanwank here

Re: Kaji has Alzheimers

Crusaious27 — Sun Nov 19, 2006 7:31 pm

Author: Crusaious27

Posted: Sun Nov 19, 2006 7:31 pm

Or, the most likely explanation. The writers made an error!11!1one1 :o

Re: Kaji has Alzheimers

MaggotMaster — Sun Nov 19, 2006 2:05 pm

Author: MaggotMaster

Posted: Sun Nov 19, 2006 2:05 pm

But you know, if you think about this, there's pretty much two possible explanations:

1) Kaji doesn't know what he's talking about (unlikely since he saw Adam himself)

2) Kaji is lying to Misato (but why?)

Re: Kaji has Alzheimers

AuthenticM — Wed Nov 15, 2006 1:39 am

Author: AuthenticM

Posted: Wed Nov 15, 2006 1:39 am

MaggotMaster wrote:

OT: Adding to the confusion of the whole "LOL LILITH IS ADAM" thing, Gendo apparently reffers to Lilith during the Iruel invasion but reffers to her as Adam, TO FUYUTSUKI, who supposedly KNOWS that it's Lilith and not Adam.

That's probably because he was around people other than Fuyutsuki. He didn't want to take any chances, so he called her 'Adam'.

Re: Kaji has Alzheimers

Timstuff — Tue Nov 14, 2006 11:57 pm

Author: Timstuff

Posted: Tue Nov 14, 2006 11:57 pm

ZOMG! Gendo tricked Kaji by telling him to bring him the Adam embryo so that he could harvest it's stem cells and cure Kaji's alzhimers but he was actually LYING and wanted to cause third impact and Kaji was too absent minded from his alzhimers to realise it! :shock:

Re: Kaji has Alzheimers

Ornette — Tue Nov 14, 2006 4:32 pm

Author: Ornette

Posted: Tue Nov 14, 2006 4:32 pm

MaggotMaster wrote:

It's not clear if Gendo was referring to Lilith in terminal dogma. Terminal Dogma was never mentioned, the thing that was mentioned was:

ep13 plat subs wrote:

HYUGA (OFF):
The contaminated area is descending further.
It's spreading all over Sigma Unit from the Pribnow Box!

FUYUTSUKI:
That's a bad area.

IKARI:
Yes, it's too close to Adam.
Stop the corrosion within Sigma Unit!

Who knows what "Sigma Unit" is? Well, it seems that it is either above or inside Central Dogma, which is above Terminal Dogma:

ep13 plat subs wrote:

WOMAN (OFF):
All of Central Dogma under Sigma Unit
will be completely closed off in sixty seconds.
Thirty seconds until activation of vacuum pump.

Maybe the Adam sample was stored somewhere in the Sigma Unit?

Re: Kaji has Alzheimers

MaggotMaster — Tue Nov 14, 2006 4:24 pm

Author: MaggotMaster

Posted: Tue Nov 14, 2006 4:24 pm

OT: Adding to the confusion of the whole "LOL LILITH IS ADAM" thing, Gendo apparently reffers to Lilith during the Iruel invasion but reffers to her as Adam, TO FUYUTSUKI, who supposedly KNOWS that it's Lilith and not Adam.

Re: Kaji has Alzheimers

Reichu — Tue Nov 14, 2006 3:44 pm

Author: Reichu

Posted: Tue Nov 14, 2006 3:44 pm

Sailor Star Dust wrote:

And if she is indeed female, wouldn't it make their "if they had a romantic-realtionship" straight after all, not yaoi?

Re: Kaji has Alzheimers

Sailor Star Dust — Tue Nov 14, 2006 2:29 pm

Author: Sailor Star Dust

Posted: Tue Nov 14, 2006 2:29 pm

Reichu wrote:

Why the hell am I writing in Japanese, anyway?

'Cause it's fun and a good way to pratice?

Reichu wrote:

だが、私もエッチんだよ。フフフ…

Kusu kusu... Like they said on the Simpsons, "Ain't nothing wrong with a little hey-hey!"

Reichu wrote:

cat42 wrote:

Is it pervy to want to see Kaworu and Shinji together?

はい！カヲル君はレズだなぁ。そしてシンジ君の四人目の母さん役ね。【カヲルとシンジ＝ヤオイ】は情緒的な近親相姦。
(Yes! Kaworu-kun is a lesbo and Mother Figure #4 to Shinji. "Kaworu & Shinji = Yaoi" is emotional incest.)

I'm probably gonna get smacked for not getting the reference (let me guess, something involving Lilith=Rei?? thus the inner lesbian?), but uh, why is Kaworu queer? And if she is indeed female, wouldn't it make their "if they had a romantic-realtionship" straight after all, not yaoi?

....Wow, that was one poorly constructed sentence. I need more sleep. *promptly passes out on keyboard*

Re: Kaji has Alzheimers

Reichu — Tue Nov 14, 2006 12:23 am

Author: Reichu

Posted: Tue Nov 14, 2006 12:23 am

cat42 wrote:

Is it pervy to want to see Kaworu and Shinji together?

はい！カヲル君はレズだなぁ。そしてシンジ君の四人目の母さん役ね。【カヲルとシンジ＝ヤオイ】は情緒的な近親相姦。
(Yes! Kaworu-kun is a lesbo and Mother Figure #4 to Shinji. "Kaworu & Shinji = Yaoi" is emotional incest.)

Why the hell am I writing in Japanese, anyway?

Quote:

I think not. And even if it is, well... Santa Barb... :D

Leave her out of this!

Quote:

I know the last bit is laughing, I can read that much. Unless I'm wrong.

Yes, "fufufu" is like "heh heh heh". The rest says, "Daga, watashi mo ecchi 'n da yo." (However, I am also a perv.)

Re: Kaji has Alzheimers

cat42 — Mon Nov 13, 2006 9:57 pm

Author: cat42

Posted: Mon Nov 13, 2006 9:57 pm

Is it pervy to want to see Kaworu and Shinji together? I think not. And even if it is, well... Santa Barb... :D

Reichu wrote:

だが、私もエッチんだよ。フフフ…

The robo translator gives me hints that you're agreeing with me that you're a perv? I know the last bit is laughing, I can read that much.
Unless I'm wrong.

Re: Kaji has Alzheimers

Reichu — Mon Nov 13, 2006 9:51 pm

Author: Reichu

Posted: Mon Nov 13, 2006 9:51 pm

cat42 wrote:

It's more spider related than squid related. :D

Fails the Google Test, whatever it is.

BTW, what I wrote was: "Angels aren't pervs. (Except Sachiel and Shamshel... And maybe Armisael and Bardiel, too.) You're the perv here, amirite?"

だが、私もエッチんだよ。フフフ…

Re: Kaji has Alzheimers

cat42 — Mon Nov 13, 2006 9:25 pm

Author: cat42

Posted: Mon Nov 13, 2006 9:25 pm

Reichu wrote:

We'll have none of that Cthulhu-speak here.

It's more spider related than squid related. :D

Anyway though, Kaji would most likely have seen the photos of the giant of light, maybe he just assumed that since they were both white, that the sad sack of marshmellow is what happends to the giant when the light goes out?

Re: Kaji has Alzheimers

Reichu — Mon Nov 13, 2006 7:57 pm

Author: Reichu

Posted: Mon Nov 13, 2006 7:57 pm

cat42 wrote:

Adam's growth was impeded by what she was encased in, and yet managed to grow itself to be that large reguardless. If one were to take it out it might make sense for it to have insane growth.

Kaji was apparently talking about Adam BEING restored (passive) rather than restoring herself (active). This fits in with Ritsuko's blather, "The god they had gone to such lengths to find also vanished completely. But then they tried to revive the god on their own. That [god] was Adam."

Quote:

Al, Usstan h'ros kampi'un dos, lu' nin Usstan guu'lac dos shlu'ta kampi'un uns'aa. Nindel morfethen udossa tangis', unless dos shlu'ta read nindol, t'yin ol usbyr morfethen dos mzild yeunn, xor alur, depending lu'oh dos lor a ol.

We'll have none of that Cthulhu-speak here.

Re: Kaji has Alzheimers

cat42 — Mon Nov 13, 2006 6:56 pm

Author: cat42

Posted: Mon Nov 13, 2006 6:56 pm

Adam's growth was impeded by what she was encased in, and yet managed to grow itself to be that large reguardless. If one were to take it out it might make sense for it to have insane growth.

I dunno.

Reichu wrote:

使徒はヘンタイじゃないよ。(サキエルとシャムシェルを除いて…　あら、アルミサエルとバルディエルも、多分。）で、君がその者なのか。
[Shito wa hentai ja nai yo. (Sachiel to Shamshel o nozoite... Ara, Armisael to Bardiel mo, tabun.) De, kimi ga sono mono na no ka.]

Re: Kaji has Alzheimers

Sailor Star Dust — Mon Nov 13, 2006 6:39 pm

Author: Sailor Star Dust

Posted: Mon Nov 13, 2006 6:39 pm

Reichu wrote:

I don't care about people here hotlinking to my site, but be courteous of others.

I totally understand and agree. And thanks for pointing that out!

So, because Kaji was a "triple-agent", is that why people think he should have had some idea that "Adam" was really Lilith? What puzzles me about this is does anyone besides Gendou, Fuyutsuki, Ritsuko(??) and possibly Rei even KNOW of Lilith's exisitance and or what/who Lilith is? If that's the case, how would Kaji know? Then again, if he has some inkling of what Adam is, I guess that's why?

Re: Kaji has Alzheimers

Reichu — Mon Nov 13, 2006 6:34 pm

Author: Reichu

Posted: Mon Nov 13, 2006 6:34 pm

Sailor Star Dust wrote:

I thought that I was embedding, but whatever.

You were embedding AND hot-linking.

Embedding displays the image in your post, as opposed to providing a hyperlink that must be clicked on before the image can be viewed.

As for hot-linking, this provides the gist:

Quote:

A hotlink is a direct link to an image on someone else's web server. For example, if you saw an image that you like ... and you put the image on your weblog using the image URL source of that other person's site, then you are hotlinking. And, unless the owner of that site permits this, then you are stealing bandwidth, which is unacceptable.

The right thing to do, if you are allowed to use an image from someone else's site but not allowed to hotlink, is to save that image on your computer. Then, upload the image on your own server. You can then link the image to your weblog. If you do not have your own server, then try using [a] free image hosting [service].

Just swap "weblog" for "forum post". I don't care about people here hotlinking to my site, but be courteous of others.

Re: Kaji has Alzheimers

Sailor Star Dust — Mon Nov 13, 2006 5:48 pm

Author: Sailor Star Dust

Posted: Mon Nov 13, 2006 5:48 pm

I thought that I was embedding, but whatever.

Edit: fixed the above image.

Re: Kaji has Alzheimers

Reichu — Mon Nov 13, 2006 4:32 pm

Author: Reichu

Posted: Mon Nov 13, 2006 4:32 pm

ObsessiveMathsFreak wrote:

What about

Episode #21' wrote:

....when the guf doors open start the cooling...

Sailor Star Dust wrote:

http://purlace.net/eva/three/three-z09.jpg

Hot-linking is bad, mmkay.

Re: Kaji has Alzheimers

Sailor Star Dust — Mon Nov 13, 2006 4:24 pm

Author: Sailor Star Dust

Posted: Mon Nov 13, 2006 4:24 pm

I'm going along with the idea that Kaji giving Adam to Ikari in episode 8 and seeing the "white naked giant on cross" in episode 15 made him simply think it was indeed a "grow your own Angel kit" and still Adam.

....Kinda like a "grow your own Rei"!
http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i267/sailorstardust/GrowaReithree-z09.jpg
(ZOMG Time paradox!)

EDIT: "Fixed."

Re: Kaji has Alzheimers

ObsessiveMathsFreak — Mon Nov 13, 2006 3:45 pm

Author: ObsessiveMathsFreak

Posted: Mon Nov 13, 2006 3:45 pm

What about

Episode #21' wrote:

....when the guf doors open start the cooling...

Re: Kaji has Alzheimers

Reichu — Mon Nov 13, 2006 2:56 pm

Author: Reichu

Posted: Mon Nov 13, 2006 2:56 pm

ObsessiveMathsFreak wrote:

What about the Gauf doors?! Aaaaahhh!!!

Totally different things.

Haven't you been paying attention, lad? Those are vaginas that magically open up on the palms of uber-beings, and gateways to and from the fabled Chamber of Guf (note spelling), which is probably some pocket dimension that manifests in the core (or the next best thing) and is used as a reservoir for souls or somethin'. I did a visual presentation about this shiznat on ANF a little while back.

Re: Kaji has Alzheimers

ObsessiveMathsFreak — Mon Nov 13, 2006 1:50 pm

Author: ObsessiveMathsFreak

Posted: Mon Nov 13, 2006 1:50 pm

Reichu wrote:

Just FYI, "Heaven's Door" refers to the entire vault containing Lilith. Don't ask me why, it just does.

What about the Gauf doors?! Aaaaahhh!!!

Re: Kaji has Alzheimers

Reichu — Mon Nov 13, 2006 11:13 am

Author: Reichu

Posted: Mon Nov 13, 2006 11:13 am

Shin-seiki wrote:

Say whaaa??

Ara-ara. my brain is doomed to miss certain crucial details.

Quote:

was he the "inside man" responsible for the power outage in #11?

Episode #11's title is a reference to the classic sci-fi movie The Day the Earth Stood Still -- anybody seen it? Just in case ya haven't: The extraterrestrial man, Klaatu, stopped most of the electricity on Earth for one day, and, the moment this went into effect, he was inside an elevator with the story's heroine. [spoiler]Incidentally, he also entrusted her with some secret info before he died that she was required to use in order to save the world.[/spoiler]

Quote:

Also, I think you're being too harsh on Kaji for calling the giant in Terminal Dogma "Adam" in #15, given that in the previous episode we have Gendo and Fuyutsuki refering to the so-called "Adam Project", even in a private conversation

Why do you say "so-called 'Adam Project'"? We're not really sure what this actually entails. Also, Fuyutsuki is more saying, "Then, what about the Spear of Longinus?" Could be referring to something totally separate from the "Adam Project".

Quote:

I think we the audience were (as of #15) simply supposed to be impressed that Kaji had discovered the mind-boggling secret behind Heaven's Door; but if Gendo and Fuyutsuki were calling it "Adam", why would you expect Kaji to do otherwise at this point?

Because he is st00pid lol.

Just FYI, "Heaven's Door" refers to the entire vault containing Lilith. Don't ask me why, it just does.

Re: Kaji has Alzheimers

Shin-seiki — Mon Nov 13, 2006 9:54 am

Author: Shin-seiki

Posted: Mon Nov 13, 2006 9:54 am

Reichu wrote:

Are there indications that he is actually reporting to Seele the way he's reporting to the Japanese gov't?

Say whaaa??
(#20)
---
KEEL:
However, our concerns are not limited to Unit 01 .

COMMITTEEMAN ?:
Correct. Serious damage was sustained by Units 00 and 02.
Headquarters was partially destroyed, Central Dogma exposed.
The damages are enormous.

COMMITTEEMAN ?:
We can't even estimate how much money and time we've lost.

COMMITTEEMAN ?:
All this is because we didn't put a bell around Ikari's neck.

COMMITTEEMAN ?:
There is a bell, it just didn't ring.

KEEL:
A bell that doesn't ring serves no purpose.
We'll have the bell take action next time.
---
And, in case there's any doubt who they're talking about, here's the next cut:

KAJI:
My, my, what an unexpected turn of events.

Reichu wrote:

Ornette Coleman wrote:

He wasn't the one that kidnapped Fuyu? Or was that just suspicion on Nerv's part.

Kidnapped him in the manga, I think. Kind of weird that he would kidnap Kozo and then be the one to set him loose. (Or maybe I just lack imagination.)

Quote:

KEEL:
A bell that doesn't ring serves no purpose.
We'll have the bell take action next time.

Also note that Kaji's behavior is rather suspicious in a few earlier episodes, especially #13. I would say that Kaji was intended to serve as an all-purpose secret agent; whenever the story called for skullduggery, they just had him do it, rather than go to the trouble of introducing other 'spy' characters. Thus, he ends up serving at least five different clients at one time or another: his public job with NERV; his secret job doing Gendo's dirty work (swiping the Adam sample, rescuing Fuyutsuki, and possibly having something to do with Jet Alone); acting as a mole for the Japanese Government (was he the "inside man" responsible for the power outage in #11?); acting as a "bell on the cat" for SEELE, i.e keeping an eye on Gendo, and doing their dirty work in #21 and (possibly) #13; and finally, finding out what NERV and SEELE were really up to, for himself, and later, by extension, Misato.

Also, I think you're being too harsh on Kaji for calling the giant in Terminal Dogma "Adam" in #15, given that in the previous episode we have Gendo and Fuyutsuki refering to the so-called "Adam Project", even in a private conversation:
(#14)
FUYUTSUKI:
What is the status of the Adam Project?

IKARI:
Proceeding smoothly. It's not even two percent behind schedule.

FUYUTSUKI:
Then, the Lance of Longinus is...

IKARI:
It's going as planned. Rei is carrying out the operation.

I think we the audience were (as of #15) simply supposed to be impressed that Kaji had discovered the mind-boggling secret behind Heaven's Door; but if Gendo and Fuyutsuki were calling it "Adam", why would you expect Kaji to do otherwise at this point?

Re: Kaji has Alzheimers

Reichu — Mon Nov 13, 2006 4:20 am

Author: Reichu

Posted: Mon Nov 13, 2006 4:20 am

使徒はヘンタイじゃないよ。(サキエルとシャムシェルを除いて…　あら、アルミサエルとバルディエルも、多分。）で、君がその者なのか。
[Shito wa hentai ja nai yo. (Sachiel to Shamshel o nozoite... Ara, Armisael to Bardiel mo, tabun.) De, kimi ga sono mono na no ka.]

Re: Kaji has Alzheimers

cat42 — Mon Nov 13, 2006 4:08 am

Author: cat42

Posted: Mon Nov 13, 2006 4:08 am

Look, Adam is a white giant too, and all white giants look alike. :D

Misato has a decent excuse in that she barely saw the thing, and it was sooooo many years ago. Kaji has an excuse, because Anno was fucking with him just like he was with us. Kaworu...

So caught up in his utter lust/love for Shinji that he wasn't paying attention.

(Oh, Shinji, I've been a bad boy, crush me like the insect that I am :D God, the angels are pervs...)

:D

Re: Kaji has Alzheimers

Reichu — Mon Nov 13, 2006 4:05 am

Author: Reichu

Posted: Mon Nov 13, 2006 4:05 am

Then Kaji totally sucks. Because the Evas are supposed to be based upon Adam, so a revived Adam should look kind of like ... an Eva, not a giant, white, humanoid blob. I mean, for crissake. Even Misato and Kaworu can't seem to tell the difference, and Kaworu bloody IS Adam. Narrativium must do damning things to one's senses.

Re: Kaji has Alzheimers

cat42 — Mon Nov 13, 2006 3:46 am

Author: cat42

Posted: Mon Nov 13, 2006 3:46 am

Reichu wrote:

But why would Kaji think Lil was Adam in the first place? You know, the principle of CONSIDERING ALL POSSIBILITIES? "Maybe it's, like, something I don't know about -- time to investigate!" The wackiness of the transition from tiny embryo to that thing on the cross must have elicited at least some suspicion. I mean, COME ON.

Because truthfully, he was trying to fool the audience. When the episode was over, he pulled Misato aside and explained it to her.

Or maybe he thought that the giant might be related to the Adam revival project...?

Re: Kaji has Alzheimers

Reichu — Mon Nov 13, 2006 3:32 am

Author: Reichu

Posted: Mon Nov 13, 2006 3:32 am

But why would Kaji think Lil was Adam in the first place? You know, the principle of CONSIDERING ALL POSSIBILITIES? "Maybe it's, like, something I don't know about -- time to investigate!" The wackiness of the transition from tiny embryo to that thing on the cross must have elicited at least some suspicion. I mean, COME ON.

Re: Kaji has Alzheimers

cat42 — Mon Nov 13, 2006 3:03 am

Author: cat42

Posted: Mon Nov 13, 2006 3:03 am

MaggotMaster wrote:

cat42 wrote:

Simple, he learned after he showed "Adam" to Misato.

But he knew that Gendo had Adam and that Adam was a small embryo since EP 8, lol time paradox

What?

He brought a "grow your own angel" kit to Gendo. Gendo Called it Adam. Kaji later finds a giant that can only be an angel in the basement. He does the math.
Gendo + "Grow your own Adam" kit = Giant fucking Adam nailed to a red tree. He shows it to Misato under this belief. He learns more truths (including who is really in the basement), puts it in a capsule, and gives it to Misato. She finally gets the info in ep 23, and that's when she learns that Lilith is in the basement.

Re: Kaji has Alzheimers

MaggotMaster — Mon Nov 13, 2006 2:58 am

Author: MaggotMaster

Posted: Mon Nov 13, 2006 2:58 am

cat42 wrote:

Simple, he learned after he showed "Adam" to Misato.

But he knew that Gendo had Adam and that Adam was a small embryo since EP 8, lol time paradox

Re: Kaji has Alzheimers

cat42 — Mon Nov 13, 2006 2:57 am

Author: cat42

Posted: Mon Nov 13, 2006 2:57 am

Simple, he learned after he showed "Adam" to Misato.

Re: Kaji has Alzheimers

MaggotMaster — Mon Nov 13, 2006 2:55 am

Author: MaggotMaster

Posted: Mon Nov 13, 2006 2:55 am

master0rolando wrote:

as fer the whole "This is Adam" line...he may have been trying to trick Misato...

But why, the info he left for Misato before getting killed was (supposedly) accurate, otherwise I can't see how she could know about Lilith in EoE.

Re: Kaji has Alzheimers

Reichu — Sun Nov 12, 2006 4:11 am

Author: Reichu

Posted: Sun Nov 12, 2006 4:11 am

master0rolando wrote:

or maybe when calling it Adam to Gendo...he was trying to trick Gendo

Gendo called the embryo "Adam", not Kaji.

Re: Kaji has Alzheimers

master0rolando — Sun Nov 12, 2006 3:58 am

Author: master0rolando

Posted: Sun Nov 12, 2006 3:58 am

as fer the whole "This is Adam" line...he may have been trying to trick Misato...

or maybe when calling it Adam to Gendo...he was trying to trick Gendo

Re: Kaji has Alzheimers

Reichu — Sat Nov 11, 2006 10:52 pm

Author: Reichu

Posted: Sat Nov 11, 2006 10:52 pm

Ornette Coleman wrote:

He wasn't the one that kidnapped Fuyu? Or was that just suspicion on Nerv's part.

Kidnapped him in the manga, I think. Kind of weird that he would kidnap Kozo and then be the one to set him loose. (Or maybe I just lack imagination.)

Quote:

How would he have been able to smuggle Adam from Seele if he wasn't able to be inside?

"i dunno lol"

Are there indications that he is actually reporting to Seele the way he's reporting to the Japanese gov't? They make the double-agent part quite clear in #15, to the point that Misato points a gun at him and lets him know that the secret is out.

Episode #15 wrote:

MISATO:
Is this your day job, or your side job?

KAJI:
I wonder which?

MISATO:
Ryoji Kaji of Special Duty Organization Nerv's
Special Inspection Department...
Also, Ryoji Kaji of the Investigation Department
of the Japanese Ministry of Home Affairs.

KAJI:
So you know all about it.

MISATO:
Don't underestimate Nerv.

KAJI:
Is this an order from Commander Ikari?

MISATO:
My own discretion.
If you keep doing this other job, you'll die.

KAJI:
Commander Ikari is using me. I can still keep going.
However, I will apologize for hiding it from you.

The Bastard King wrote:

Best explenation I've seen so far, besides the one which leaned towards Maya doing it. The one that I made. It was great.

Reichu wrote:

Seele are ... the ones who had him shot dead.

Re: Kaji has Alzheimers

The Bastard King — Sat Nov 11, 2006 8:59 pm

Author: The Bastard King

Posted: Sat Nov 11, 2006 8:59 pm

Hexon.Arq wrote:

Kaji killed Kaji.

Best explenation I've seen so far, besides the one which leaned towards Maya doing it. The one that I made. It was great.

But yeah, Kaji... He would have to have something wrong with him, being on NGE and all. I don't see why not.

Re: Kaji has Alzheimers

Hexon.Arq — Sat Nov 11, 2006 6:12 pm

Author: Hexon.Arq

Posted: Sat Nov 11, 2006 6:12 pm

Kaji killed Kaji.