How would you introduce Kaworu and Asuka

Discussion of the new series of Evangelion movies ( "Evangelion Shin Gekijōban", meaning "Evangelion: New Theatrical Edition").
The third installment debuted in Japan on November 17, 2012.

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Postby Gendo'sPapa » Fri Sep 07, 2007 3:14 pm

I don't necessarily like Kaworu as a character. But I've always liked him as a concept.

To me he fully embodies the flaw of trusting in someone without question. When Kaworu rolls around Shinji has bascially driven away everyone he could depend on for help both in physical ways (kicking Kensuke out of the series unceremoniously, not even telling Toji he was sorry) and mental (he just kinda turned his back on Misato). He was finally ALONE. More so than he was when the show began. And then in comes Kaworu and the poor kid is so desperate for human connection he latches onto him without a second doubt. I never saw anything but pure loneliness and desperate reachings in Shinji's realtionship with Kaworu. Shinji places his trust in this kid he doesn't know and pours his heart out to the dumb smiling kid. When Kaworu turned out to have been an Angel and basically broken Shinji's trust that was it for Shinji. He'd probably never trust a human being every again.

As for Kaworu the character, I just find him annoying and down right smug. And the kid always takes 10 words to say something that only needs 3.

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Postby Sailor Star Dust » Fri Sep 07, 2007 3:45 pm

I think Manga-Kaworu is like that, but imo, Anime-Kaworu is more like the intelligent and sophisticated best friend/older brother type.

He IS 15, after all. ;)
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Postby BobBQ » Fri Sep 07, 2007 4:45 pm

Sailor Star Dust wrote:I think Manga-Kaworu is like that, but imo, Anime-Kaworu is more like the intelligent and sophisticated best friend/older sister type.

She IS 15, after all. ;)

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Postby CitizenGeek » Fri Sep 07, 2007 5:14 pm

DatDude wrote:Some like the eva monkey see him as an innocent that really did care for Shinji

ME I see him as a Judas that was sent to hurt Shinji and thus inhibit his abbility to pilot. Paving the way for seeles 3I impact. What ever that would have been had eoe not gone down the way it did


So, you see him as being disingenuous? ;_;

I think he liked Shinji in a romantice way, and Shinji liked him romantically too - but, obviously, Shinji was not gay.

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Postby the_seventh_child » Fri Sep 07, 2007 5:21 pm

CitizenGeek wrote:and Shinji liked him romantically too - but, obviously, Shinji was not gay.

If he likes him romantically that automatically makes him gay, or at least bi-sexual right?
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Postby CitizenGeek » Fri Sep 07, 2007 5:33 pm

the_seventh_child wrote:
CitizenGeek wrote:and Shinji liked him romantically too - but, obviously, Shinji was not gay.

If he likes him romantically that automatically makes him gay, or at least bi-sexual right?


Hmm, I guess' bisexual' is the right term, but it doesn't seem right, if you know what I mean. The term is too mechanical to use as a label for a 14-year-old, especially one like Shinji!
Last edited by CitizenGeek on Thu Sep 13, 2007 2:21 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby Blvd.Nights » Wed Sep 12, 2007 1:11 am

I wouldn't. That's Anno's job, that's Anno's art.

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Postby Apathetic Piggy » Wed Sep 12, 2007 4:09 am

the_seventh_child wrote:
CitizenGeek wrote:and Shinji liked him romantically too - but, obviously, Shinji was not gay.

If he likes him romantically that automatically makes him gay, or at least bi-sexual right?


Pretty much. I always saw it as flattery on Shinji's part though. Kaworu was the only person to ever openly tell Shinji that he wasn't only accepted, but loved. Even if someone else cared about him, they never openly told him that he was loved. Sure, Shinji said he loved him after he was killed, but I always interpreted it as the way one loves a friend or brother rather than how one feels for a lover. Love's not just romantic, it's just an incredibly deep emotion you feel for someone you care about. Doesn't mean you want to jump their bones, so to speak.

But yes, if you are romantically interested in a member of the same sex that sounds like a homosexual tendency by the definition I'm familiar with. I could be wrong though and he may be gay, though nothing's wrong with that.

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Postby zeaven » Wed Sep 12, 2007 6:12 am

In the series, it makes no sense. There's great care to develop the characters' relationships realistically all the way through; they never act out sporadically (with some exceptions) or out of turn, and save their really interesting actions until the characters truly know each other (which might be a common Japanese trait anyway).

But with Kaworu, Shinji knows him for a very short time before Kaworu says "I love you." It's kind of uncharacteristic that Shinji isn't completely taken aback, although his reaction is kind of... well, reactionary. Surely he doesn't love Kaworu after such a short time. Hopefully if this same incident happens in Rebuild, it will be more... warranted? (Then again, the strangeness of the action is what makes it so interesting, juxtaposed with the other realistic relationships.)

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Postby CitizenGeek » Wed Sep 12, 2007 9:22 am

zeaven wrote:In the series, it makes no sense. There's great care to develop the characters' relationships realistically all the way through; they never act out sporadically (with some exceptions) or out of turn, and save their really interesting actions until the characters truly know each other (which might be a common Japanese trait anyway).

But with Kaworu, Shinji knows him for a very short time before Kaworu says "I love you." It's kind of uncharacteristic that Shinji isn't completely taken aback, although his reaction is kind of... well, reactionary. Surely he doesn't love Kaworu after such a short time. Hopefully if this same incident happens in Rebuild, it will be more... warranted? (Then again, the strangeness of the action is what makes it so interesting, juxtaposed with the other realistic relationships.)

Nevermind me, I'm just ranting.


No, no - I totally agree. Shinji's reaction to Kaworu's 'love' was very uncharacteristic of Shinji. I mean, I know Misato tried to make Shinji feel loved (in, sometimes, very direct ways) but it never really clicked with him. That's why I think Shinji had feelings for Kaworu that were beyond platonic.

Anyway, Kaworu and Asuka? I don't think they'll become the best of friends, to be honest! I wonder how Misato would react to Kaworu too!
Last edited by CitizenGeek on Wed Sep 12, 2007 1:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby DatDude » Wed Sep 12, 2007 9:27 am

I think Asuka will take a bat to kaworu time and time again as he smiles not understanding that his skull is being caved in.

ok now that thats out of my system for the moment I think he's going to hurt her the way he hurt Shinji emotionally.
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Postby Reichu » Wed Sep 12, 2007 10:19 am

CitizenGeek wrote:No, no - I totally agree. Shinji's reaction to Kaworu's 'love' was very uncharacteristic of Shinji. <snip>

It actually kind of makes sense, and not necessarily in that "lol fag0rt" way. But I think there are already threads about that.

I wonder how Misato would react to Kaworu too!

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Postby Apathetic Piggy » Wed Sep 12, 2007 5:27 pm

Reichu wrote:
CitizenGeek wrote:No, no - I totally agree. Shinji's reaction to Kaworu's 'love' was very uncharacteristic of Shinji. <snip>

It actually kind of makes sense, and not necessarily in that "lol fag0rt" way. But I think there are already threads about that.


I suppose that's another way of looking at it, though I still don't think he was at the point where he wanted to engage in a relationship. Like I said, I always read it as the first "undeniable evidence that someone cared about him ( i.e., the words "I love you").

As for Kaworu and Asuka becoming friends, it seems unlikely as he ultimately served as her replacement before revealing to NERV that he was an Angel (something which she'd likely take offense to). I still think it's possible simply because we've never seen them interact and that he doesn't claim to excel in anything, which fits with Asuka's superiority complex. Then again, he liked to do a bit too much psychoanalysis to be around Asuka. She didn't like anyone trying to understand her most of the times. It seems unconventional, in a sense, for them to befriend one another... but since when has Anno been conventional?

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Postby Sailor Star Dust » Wed Sep 12, 2007 7:28 pm

Smith wrote:im in ur post, fixin ur wurdz


Thanks, ;) Hehe, "what we lack in numbers we make up for in enthusiasm" indeed. btw, are you gonna contribute to the Project (EvaWiki)? It needs MOAR Smith.

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Um, could you please not write the word "bisexual" like that? It bothers me. (I'm Bi in case you didn't know.) Writing "Bisexual" or just "Bi" is perfectly fine. /Pet Peeve

Re: Shinji 'n stuff: While Sexuality is a continuum (fluid, not fixed) and the teenage years are when kids start to question their sexuality, Shinji's feelings seemed to be more confused than anything.

But technically-speaking, if Shinji DID love Kaworu in a romantic sense, yes; it would make him Bi since he's also in love with Asuka. ZOMG.

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Anyway, seeing Kaworu and Asuka becoming friends would be pretty cool, provided Anno doesn't fail us and go along with Kaworu's personality in the GoS2 game. *shudders* If that's not the case, I hope it wouldn't be that stereotypical love rival crap. (Again ala the GoS2 game.) I like the game, I just don't like how certain things are done in it. Hence why the GoS2 "Angelic Days" Manga is better in some respects, IMO.
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Postby UrsusArctos » Wed Sep 12, 2007 8:03 pm

CitizenGeek wrote:No, no - I totally agree. Shinji's reaction to Kaworu's 'love' was very uncharacteristic of Shinji. I mean, I know Misato tried to make Shinji feel loved (in, sometimes, very direct ways) but it never really clicked with him. That's why I think Shinji had feelings for Kaworu that were beyond platonic.

Anyway, Kaworu and Asuka? I don't think they'll become the best of friends, to be honest! I wonder how Misato would react to Kaworu too!


Doubt it. Shinji was such a mental wreck that he was looking for someone, anyone, to be friends. Compare Kaworu's intro with everyone else's. Misato comes in style and shows her unusual side to him pretty quick, Toji beats him up and Kensuke is interested only in the Eva. Rei comes in bandaged at first, and then there's him falling on top of her when she's naked, and her slapping him. Asuka yells and shouts and acts big and bossy straight off. Of all these people, first meeting Misato is the only thing close to pleasant.

Kaji and Kaworu (Yes, both of them) were very friendly to Shinji, but Kaji sort of kept his distance. Kaworu was actually pretty pushy to be Shinji's friend, and after everything that happened, Shinji gave in easily. Anyone would do for a friend, especially someone who cared for him.

About Asuka and Misato...either Asuka's going to do the obvious by hating him, or she's going to dump Baka-Shinji for Baka-Kaworu. Misato and Kaworu would probably get along very well- but that's heading into dangerous territory!

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Postby BobBQ » Wed Sep 12, 2007 8:03 pm

Sailor Star Dust wrote:btw, are you gonna contribute to the Project (EvaWiki)? It needs MOAR Smith.

I did get a little bit in, but was then swamped by school stuff. I don't have enough spare time to dig through all the ANF archive topics or master wiki software right now, and TToR404 takes priority when I do have free hours.

I'll probably get back to it at some point, though.


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