Asuka isn't Justified

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Re: Asuka isn't Justified

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Postby FreakyFilmFan4ever » Wed Sep 11, 2019 11:56 am

@Tines and Urses Arctos I didn’t understand 14-year-olds’ hormones and sex drive when I was 14, and I understand it even less now. Who in God’s Name knows why Asuka and Shinji feel the feelings they do about each other.

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Re: Asuka isn't Justified

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Postby kuribo-04 » Thu Sep 12, 2019 4:14 am

∆ Opposites attract each other and that sort of stuff.
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Re: Asuka isn't Justified

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Postby Mr. Tines » Thu Sep 12, 2019 5:40 am

View Original PostUrsusArctos wrote:I actually wonder why Shinji would be interested in Asuka in the first place.
A good-looking and somewhat exotic girl around the house? Definite side-dish material; but with that abrasive personality, really no more.

Shinji and Rei aren't any better.
Episode 6 makes a better case for Shinji having interest in Rei than anything else does with anyone else. I'm still disappointed that that strand turned into a dead end or, at best, a deliberate twist on the "brash interloper only causes a temporary set-back" storyline, in the same way that other anime standards got subverted (e.g the walking in on a girl changing incident).
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Re: Asuka isn't Justified

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Postby UrsusArctos » Thu Sep 12, 2019 7:33 am

View Original PostMr. Tines wrote:Episode 6 makes a better case for Shinji having interest in Rei than anything else does with anyone else. I'm still disappointed that that strand turned into a dead end or, at best, a deliberate twist on the "brash interloper only causes a temporary set-back" storyline, in the same way that other anime standards got subverted (e.g the walking in on a girl changing incident).


Episode 06 also shows a side of Rei that Shinji would be pretty uncomfortable with - her appalling living conditions and somewhat disconnected behavior, and Rei's proximity to Gendo. In light of her lack of character development afterwards, I don't think Shinji would get romantically interested in her. The initial subconscious connection with his mother and sympathy for his fellow Eva pilot aside, any romantic sparks that were kindled when Shinji got Rei to smile wouldn't have lasted, any more than with having the exotic but abrasive Asuka at Shinji's side.

Funny I actually typed that out...eleven years ago I shared your feelings about Episode 06 and was holding out for Shinji and Rei to get together romantically in some form, and then I started to favor Shinji and Asuka, and now I think that neither girl works romantically.
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Re: Asuka isn't Justified

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Postby FreakyFilmFan4ever » Sat Sep 14, 2019 9:43 am

View Original PostUrsusArctos wrote:now I think that neither girl works romantically.

That's kinda one of the pillars to the whole point of the show.

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Re: Asuka isn't Justified

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Postby UrsusArctos » Sat Sep 14, 2019 9:59 pm

View Original PostFreakyFilmFan4ever wrote:That's kinda one of the pillars to the whole point of the show.


Depends on how you interpret that. Eva is a work with more interpretations than you can shake a Spear of Longinus at, and you'd have to do a whole lot of shaking to keep them shippers off yer back!
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Re: Asuka isn't Justified

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Postby FreakyFilmFan4ever » Tue Sep 17, 2019 6:16 am

^ While interpretations of the show itself that involve actively shipping the characters are certainly things that exist, I think they misread how Evangelion presents human character development throughout the show. The show explicitly and blatantly piles so many psychological issues upon all of its characters that and honest reading of the show would make it implausible for all of these issues would be solved if one of the characters simply got a significant other.

I’m not saying that shippers are bad mind you. It is rather fun to imagine how different characters would behave in a healthy relationship with one another. But it’s important to separate the fun of shipping with the messages in Evangelion. I do think that interpreting the show in a way that concludes that Shinji would be happy and healthy with anybody in the emotional and psychological states as depicted in the show ignores the troubles of the characters that the show actively tries to revisit and explore.

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Postby zlink64 » Wed Sep 25, 2019 6:19 am

“, I don't get how there are people who are able to ship her with Shinji, demanding that he is a bad person who never responded to her calls for help.”


You realize that essentially the status quo of their relationship from the very begging albeit a less dramatic version. Asuka finds out Shinji is into her by the end of the dancing episode and after that he never makes a move despite his boldness in that episode then when ever she initiates, he acts like an idiot( idiot from straight guy POV u can call it something else if you want. But idiot is pretty accurate imo). This whole dynamic plus their rivalry/ emo issues fester up into your quote above after all the big events. I wouldn’t call him a bad person and I suspect you are being over dramatic with the amount comments you’ve seen actually calling him a bad person. At the very least for the reason you claim above.
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Re: Asuka isn't Justified

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Postby StrokeMeGoat » Fri Oct 04, 2019 5:13 am

I have to ask, how often are people actually justified in their actions, and who gets to determine that? Typically the younger a person is, the less justified their actions appear to be when taken into consideration--especially those young people who have undergone a greater than average number of traumatic experiences in their life. It seems kind of silly, maybe even unjustifiable ( :wink: ) to judge whether or not the actions of two people in their position were actually justifiable.

I mean, a major recurring motif in the series is the Hedgehog's Dilemma, wherein the closer two people get when interacting with one another, the more they hurt each other with their pointy quills (emotional and psychological baggage, values, belief systems, etc.). I think whether or not somebody's actions are justified are so inherently subjective as judgments that there's little to no point in actually considering how justified Asuka and Shinji were in how they treated one another (or any of the other cast, for that matter). When seriously taking into account where each of the characters is coming from when deciding to act a certain way, they're all justifiable in a way, and from all other perspectives infinitely just as unjustified. Is there any point in trying to hold them accountable, knowing that?

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Re: Asuka isn't Justified

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Postby SawItAtAge10 » Wed Oct 09, 2019 1:12 pm

View Original PostFreakyFilmFan4ever wrote:I do think that interpreting the show in a way that concludes that Shinji would be happy and healthy with anybody in the emotional and psychological states as depicted in the show ignores the troubles of the characters that the show actively tries to revisit and explore.


It could work, potentially with Asuka, maybe Mari? (I feel like Rei is completely off limits given her connection to Yui and Lilith, same with Kaworu given his connection to Adam). BUT, the story would have to delve in hard into resolving those issues first from both Shinji and whomever he ended up with.
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Postby Zoop » Thu Oct 10, 2019 3:27 am

Like pretty much having to make a 180, that's why it wouldn't happen.
That's what fanfics and spinoffs are for, usually they rewrite big portions of their progress simply to make it work.
But in NGE and NTE? Nah, story isn't about that.

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Re: Asuka isn't Justified

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Postby Shinichir0 » Thu Oct 17, 2019 3:18 am

The answer to this question is: yes, but virtually no one's behavior in Eva is justified. And justified at the same time.

First of all, Asuka's arrogance, narcissism, and selfishness are projections of her fake confidence, which she enforces on others to ensure that they won't abandon her, because of how good and perfect she is.

Second of all, Shinji's humbleness, shyness, and obedience are also projections of his fake demeanor, which he puts on to ensure that others won't abandon him, because he's so responsive.

Both pilot the Eva with those masks on, and the Eva is the way for both to feel needed and important. Both are "bad" people, because they use others to feel better about themselves. This is explained in episodes 25 and 26.

It's hard to evaluate whose past was more difficult, that matter is subjective, but Asuka seems to have more prominent emotional traumas overall.

Asuka didn't really underestimate Shinji, she was afraid of him besting her, the reason for which I explained above. Moreover, I think she saw herself in his facade, and tried to force him to drop it. I wouldn't say that calling out Shinji on his idiotic behavior is "mistreatment". In EoE's dream kitchen scene, she does exactly that, and Shinji is furious, because he knows she's right about him.

Nobody expects Shinji to empathize with her. But stating that you have no responsibility for others' problems contradicts the show's entire message. Take care of yourself. I need you. Yes, you should try and take care of your personal problems yourself, you can't depend on others there. But you need people, you need to try and connect to them, you need to try and understand each other. The main cast avoided that, and thus came their suffering.


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