Netflix Release General Discussion

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Postby kuribo-04 » Sat Jun 22, 2019 4:27 pm

View Original Postkuribo-04 wrote:Ok, episode 9 has another change and I don't know if it comes from the bluray.
When Shinji activates his SDAT accidentally after Asuka falls asleep next to him, it's a different sound...right?

Correction. This is only the case in the Japanese stereo mix. In 5.1 it sounds as always.
Shinji: "Sooner or later I'll be betrayed... And they'll leave me. Still... I want to meet them again, because I believe my feelings at that time were real."
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Postby Gendo'sPapa » Sat Jun 22, 2019 4:37 pm

Is anyone afraid this Netflix release is going to bring that odd Guy Fawkes mask wearing guy back or has he truly moved on?

Also, is it just me or were the subtitles for the entire second half of Episode 23 off by like a full second? Because the show is so tightly edited and paced there were moments where a character would start speaking in frame and the subtitle would appear on the other characters reaction shot.
Is it just my Netflix or do other people have this issue?

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Postby TheFriskyIan » Sat Jun 22, 2019 7:36 pm

View Original PostSailor Star Dust wrote:No "Fly Me to the Moon" is a damn shame for sure, but even Funimation had problems with the licensing :shrug:


IIRC, my FUNimation copy of 1.11 had a FMTTM trailer for 2.0; hard for me to know for sure though, most of my anime is in a box at my sister's house.

Gendo'sPapa wrote:Is anyone afraid this Netflix release is going to bring that odd Guy Fawkes mask wearing guy back or has he truly moved on?


Is that the guy with the Youtube videos saying that there was a home video release of the original 1.0 and wasn't mentioning 1.01?
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Postby Gendo'sPapa » Sat Jun 22, 2019 8:32 pm

I didn't have any real interactions with him but he was just some dude who dressed up as the character from V For Vendetta and would make rambling unfocused diatribes in posts or in videos about what everything in Evangelion meant BUT only he understood things corectly and everyone needed to listen to him. I could never tell if his whole act was an elaborate joke he found funny or if he was just a jerk or if he needed help. One day he just disappeared. I think he really didn't like how Evangelion 3.0 didn't fulfill his fans theories and took it personally so he just up and left.
Not worth talking about.

I just watched Death(True)². I think this is the first time I've watched this cut of Death. It still doesn't really work for me. It might be the one Anno created Eva thing that I feel indifferent about. The few moments of new animation are glorious and I applaud them making probably the most elaborate clip show ever but it's still just an elaborate clip show. It bugs me how the footage they use from the show is just blown up to fit a wider frame so everything just looks blown out - on my giant TV I was truly shocked by how jittery everything was in Death while the show was fine - and relatively perfect compositions from the show feel off. I understand some people love it but Death is definitely the one bit of Classic Eva I have no problems skipping on a rewatch.

Short of convenience next time I watch Evangelion I'll stick to the copies I have. I miss Fly Me To The Moon and it missing from Eps 15 + 21 really hurt the scenes it was involved in. But it's nice people can experience Evangelion now.

One Question: What Netflix Original did they push on you between episodes? I watched the show on my TV and every time an episode ended in the 15 seconds in between before Netflix would autoplay the next episode they always recommended I try watching Adam Sandler's Murder Mystery (I wonder how long it took to come up with that title). Which is funny because I literally have not watched ANY of the Sandler/Netflix joints nor ever will. I was wondering if anyone had something different pushed on them by the algorithm or if that's there for everyone across the board.

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Postby cyharding » Sat Jun 22, 2019 8:59 pm

View Original PostTheFriskyIan wrote:IIRC, my FUNimation copy of 1.11 had a FMTTM trailer for 2.0; hard for me to know for sure though, most of my anime is in a box at my sister's house.

My copy of 1.11 has it too, but apparently it wasn't supposed to have it. Future editions of the moive don't have it.

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Postby Reichu » Sat Jun 22, 2019 10:56 pm

@Gendo'sPapa: DEATH is really Masayuki's thing. Anno wasn't as involved in that one.

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Postby Gendo'sPapa » Sat Jun 22, 2019 11:19 pm

Thank you @Reichu! I wasn’t aware of that. I always figured it was and never looked it up. I love learning new things about Eva! :D

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Postby Tumbling Down » Sat Jun 22, 2019 11:30 pm

View Original PostReichu wrote:The layered dialogue in that flashback doesn't get subtitled, either, so people watching only on Netflix are being deprived on some important lore information. Oh well.

This is my biggest problem, and I'm surprised the Kaworu stuff is getting more attention.

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Postby silvermoonlight » Sun Jun 23, 2019 5:40 am

View Original PostTumbling Down wrote:This is my biggest problem, and I'm surprised the Kaworu stuff is getting more attention.


I'm not because it looks regressive rather than progressive and the rumour that studio Khara were behind it only adds to the problem as Evangelion is loved by a lot of people because it questions gender roles, sex, sexuality and you can read in to underlying themes for LGBT in to it so for this to be stripped out to some feels like direct betrayal since in the older ADV dub kept the line in and ran with it.
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Postby kuribo-04 » Sun Jun 23, 2019 5:49 am

∆ It's not a rumor. The guy who translated is works for khara.
I get why people want this to be a homosexual relationship. But honestly I feel even with the new transaltion the homoerotic undertones are there.

I personally never knew what Kaworu actually thinks or feels regarding a romance, but that's just my interpretation.
But his dialogue being more ambiguous seems natural to me.
Also there have been countless subtitles and suki has been translated as like before.
While I kinda rejected this new translation at first, I'm warming up to it.

(Interesting take on this:
https://jimpluff.tumblr.com/post/185760086479/ah-so-kaworu-x-shinji-shippers-are-just-now
Read the notes of the post by jimpluff. His opening might sound a little confrontational but his thoughts in the notes are very interesting.)


In any case, comments I'm seeing acusing the translator of being a homophobe, fascist and child pornography advocate, all taken out of thin air or by mistranslating (intentionally?) quotes are extremely immature and I'm really sad at the level the debate is at (not here, other places).

To summarize: Kaworu being gay is still a valid interpretation under the new subs I think.
Shinji: "Sooner or later I'll be betrayed... And they'll leave me. Still... I want to meet them again, because I believe my feelings at that time were real."
Ryuko: "I'm gonna knock ya on your asses!"
-Asuka: THINK IN GERMAN!!! -Shinji: Öh... Baumkuchen...
Hayashida: "As game developers, our work is special. All of us here can put smiles on very many people's faces with our work."
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Postby Reichu » Sun Jun 23, 2019 6:03 am

View Original Postsilvermoonlight wrote:I'm not because it looks regressive rather than progressive and the rumour that studio Khara were behind it only adds to the problem as Evangelion is loved by a lot of people because it questions gender roles, sex, sexuality and you can read in to underlying themes for LGBT in to it so for this to be stripped out to some feels like direct betrayal since in the older ADV dub kept the line in and ran with it.

The only real problem with what was done, in my opinion, is the unnecessary substitution at the end of the episode, which I've written about previously. But this is more because it's an unnecessary liberty than anything else; it simply has no reason to exist. The "like" thing by itself is fine -- translating it as "love" was always an unnecessary interpretative decision imposed upon the audience. I can understand getting attached to a decision made in line with one's own predilections, but that doesn't mean it was the correct decision. Khara "reversing" something they originally had nothing to do with is not a betrayal; they are not beholden to previous localizations, nor to fans' attachment to said localizations. They are beholden solely to NGE itself, which is as it should be.

Another part of this whole brouhaha to keep in mind is that, from a Japanese point of view, Kaworu never once came out and said "I love you". Yet the Kawoshin fandom in Japan is a force to be reckoned with. Now why would this be, if the cries of censorship and erasure in the west are to be believed...?

There are so many things we could potentially be discussing now that we've been given not just one but two new interpretations of NGE, but two moments in episode 24 are all that matter. :um:

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Postby silvermoonlight » Sun Jun 23, 2019 6:35 am

View Original Postkuribo-04 wrote:∆ It's not a rumor. The guy who translated is works for khara.
I get why people want this to be a homosexual relationship. But honestly I feel even with the new transaltion the homoerotic undertones are there.

I personally never knew what Kaworu actually thinks or feels regarding a romance, but that's just my interpretation.
But his dialogue being more ambiguous seems natural to me.
Also there have been countless subtitles and suki has been translated as like before.
While I kinda rejected this new translation at first, I'm warming up to it.

(Interesting take on this:
https://jimpluff.tumblr.com/post/185760086479/ah-so-kaworu-x-shinji-shippers-are-just-now
Read the notes of the post by jimpluff. His opening might sound a little confrontational but his thoughts in the notes are very interesting.)


In any case, comments I'm seeing acusing the translator of being a homophobe, fascist and child pornography advocate, all taken out of thin air or by mistranslating (intentionally?) quotes are extremely immature and I'm really sad at the level the debate is at (not here, other places).

To summarize: Kaworu being gay is still a valid interpretation under the new subs I think.


Thank you for the Tumblr stuff I'll have a deeper read ^_^

Yeah I've been thinking about this as a lot of you guys and girls on here can speak Japanese some of you live in Japan you understand the change of language context but most people who are new to anime or even old fans who have never learnt Japanese or prefer dubs may not be educated on the Japanese context or the language correction being more true all they will see is you changed love to like and like in English not meaning the same as love.

I am not condoning any of the bash lash behaviour that's happening regarding Khara, I'm only bringing this up as I can see why that's happening but I also don't think the guys handling of it has been great as he is not educating on how Japanese and English are different culturally he's just said I made this change which will make certain groups really angry.
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Postby hui43210 » Sun Jun 23, 2019 9:06 am

View Original PostGendo'sPapa wrote:

Funimation doesn’t have pockets as deep as Netflix but had they gotten licensees for it they sure wouldn’t have released the show without Fly Me To The Moon included.


They cut Raidohead out of Ergo Proxy on their online streaming, so I wouldn't put anything past them.
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Postby Mr. Tines » Sun Jun 23, 2019 9:36 am

View Original Postsilvermoonlight wrote: most people who are new to anime or even old fans who have never learnt Japanese or prefer dubs may not be educated on the Japanese context or the language correction being more true all they will see is you changed love to like and like in English not meaning the same as love.

Image
Apparently the original VHS release also used "like", and it's the DVDs that are the odd one out here.
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Postby SEELE-01 » Sun Jun 23, 2019 9:58 am

View Original PostReichu wrote:"S2 Drive" will take some getting used to. It's not a bad change, at all, since "engine" always felt a bit... ungainly to me.


I'm surprised the English dub has so many of these little quirks...
The Spanish dub and subtitles leave most of everything as it was in the 90's... It corrected (sometimes) the AT Shield thing, but key things like dummy plug, S2 engine, the technobabble and the biology-inspired structure of Nerv is left as it is...
I suspected they would base themselves on the new English dub, but now I think they translated directly from Japanese or at least, relied heavily on the 90's translation... Which would explain why End of Eva's dub was so messy :chinscratch:
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Postby silvermoonlight » Sun Jun 23, 2019 10:02 am

View Original PostMr. Tines wrote:Image
Apparently the original VHS release also used "like", and it's the DVDs that are the odd one out here.


That's really interesting let me do a recheck on my UK ADV DVD version as I'm curious if it was like but my 19 year old self didn't take it in enough line wise when I watched where as now I'm more self aware hence why I'm seeing this issue more in the present ^_^
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Postby Reichu » Sun Jun 23, 2019 10:04 am

Mr. Tines wrote:Apparently the original VHS release also used "like", and it's the DVDs that are the odd one out here.

The comparison should have really included the Collection DVD subtitles for completeness' sake. I was there when the VHS images were being collected (they were snapped by my husband, in fact), so I dunno why I failed to act at the time...

SPOILER: Show
Image

Image

Image


A lot of people experienced it solely through the dub, which in Collection uses "love" (also translates koui as "sympathy", for the curious). We would need someone with the dubbed VHS tapes to know if this was an alteration or not.

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Postby BlueBasilisk » Sun Jun 23, 2019 10:55 am

^I have the dubbed VHS but I'm not sure if we still have a vcr or not. ^^; I'll check when I get home.

View Original Postsilvermoonlight wrote:I am not condoning any of the bash lash behaviour that's happening regarding Khara, I'm only bringing this up as I can see why that's happening but I also don't think the guys handling of it has been great as he is not educating on how Japanese and English are different culturally he's just said I made this change which will make certain groups really angry.

I think it would help if people would draw attention to the other example from episode 26 where the same change happens. Near the end of Instrumentality, Shinji and the others say "Maybe I can learn to like myself!" That's previously been translated as 'love' and as I understand it, it's the same word Kaworu says to him in 24.

Something I find rather silly about all this is that Rebuild Kaworu never says that he loves Shinji either. It's all informed by the other things he says and does. Yet 3.0 is like the holy grail of KawoShin.
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Postby Guy Nacks » Sun Jun 23, 2019 11:56 am

Outside of dub/soundtrack/translation feedback, one thing I was surprised to see was that EOE received the same TV-14 rating that the rest of the main series received.

Kinda surprised since, you know:

-The hospital scene
-Asuka's death scene
-Rei being naked for like 90% of her onscreen time
-Multiple labias
-Misato's boom headshot
-etc.
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Postby Chuckman » Sun Jun 23, 2019 12:41 pm

Oh please, like a fourteen year old doesn’t know what a handful of cum looks like.

(The censors probably didn’t watch it.)

Edit: Anybody know a good way to get screenshots from the Netflix streams? I want to grab some snaps to illustrate my theories, since it’s clearer than the DVD rips I had.
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