[FILM] "Alien" Series (no "AvP")

A subforum for discussions about Film, TV, and Videos.

Moderators: New Moderators, Board Staff

Bagheera
Banned
User avatar
Posts: 18626
Joined: Oct 15, 2010

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Bagheera » Fri Mar 29, 2013 3:48 pm

View Original PostElect G-Max wrote:Yeah, don't bother actually addressing my points or anything. :rolleyes:


They were already addressed upthread. That's why I said your defense was a waste of time -- Muggy's post covers the only redeaming features the flick has to offer (and as usual he did a decent job of it), and in light of that quibbling about specific plot points is silly.
Last edited by Bagheera on Fri Mar 29, 2013 4:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.
For my post-3I fic, go here.
The law doesn't protect people. People protect the law. -- Akane Tsunemori, Psycho-Pass
People's deaths are to be mourned. The ability to save people should be celebrated. Life itself should be exalted. -- Volken Macmani, Tatakau Shisho: The Book of Bantorra
I hate myself. But maybe I can learn to love myself. Maybe it's okay for me to be here! That's right! I'm me, nothing more, nothing less! I'm me. I want to be me! I want to be here! And it's okay for me to be here! -- Shinji Ikari, Neon Genesis Evangelion
Yes, I know. You thought it would be something about Asuka. You're such idiots.

Elect G-Max
Tunniel
User avatar
Age: 39
Posts: 198
Joined: Mar 01, 2013

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Elect G-Max » Fri Mar 29, 2013 4:03 pm

View Original PostBagheera wrote:Muggy's post covers the only redeaming features the flick has


Mugwump's post was mostly a lot of over-analytical jacking off about how Alien 3 and Alien Resurrection complemented each other thematically, without actually addressing the quality of the movie itself.
"Whatever the story or the development of the characters, I made them without a plan... We only started working on the next script once the previous one was done." - Anno, 1996

"Sometimes, putting your toothbrush in its holder upside down can express your feelings towards life in general, your secret desire to commit suicide, the feelings for your long-lost mother that you never got to know, and your favorite color. But sometimes that toothbrush is simply a toothbrush." - Nuclear Lunchbox

Bagheera
Banned
User avatar
Posts: 18626
Joined: Oct 15, 2010

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Bagheera » Fri Mar 29, 2013 4:11 pm

View Original PostElect G-Max wrote:And I'm pointing out that the list of such features is itself longer than most give it credit for.


Claiming it doesn't make it so, sorry. Both of your points were addressed upthread, and both failed to pass muster (the failed clones have some dramatic weight in light of Ripley's story, but in terms of rationalizing the rest they fail utterly because they're still an atrocity against biology 101). Flawless script? Please. :lol:

Mugwump's post was mostly a lot of over-analytical jacking off about how Alien 3 and Alien Resurrection complemented each other thematically, without actually addressing the quality of the movie itself.


Because that's all it had to offer. It was utter shit otherwise, for all the reasons given upthread.

And now I feel unclean for even entertaining these silly ideas, but at least I got to give Muggy props for his wonderful posts upthread. If others read those (along with Reichu's equally insightful replies) perhaps this waste of a bump might serve some purpose after all.

Blue: Forgot to mention, that script looks interesting. It's a damn sight better than most other Alien 3 scripts I've seen floating around the net. Though that's not saying much.
Last edited by Bagheera on Fri Mar 29, 2013 5:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.
For my post-3I fic, go here.
The law doesn't protect people. People protect the law. -- Akane Tsunemori, Psycho-Pass
People's deaths are to be mourned. The ability to save people should be celebrated. Life itself should be exalted. -- Volken Macmani, Tatakau Shisho: The Book of Bantorra
I hate myself. But maybe I can learn to love myself. Maybe it's okay for me to be here! That's right! I'm me, nothing more, nothing less! I'm me. I want to be me! I want to be here! And it's okay for me to be here! -- Shinji Ikari, Neon Genesis Evangelion
Yes, I know. You thought it would be something about Asuka. You're such idiots.

FreakyFilmFan4ever
(In)Sufficient Director
(In)Sufficient Director
User avatar
Age: 32
Posts: 8238
Joined: Jun 09, 2009
Location: Playing amongst the stars
Gender: Male

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby FreakyFilmFan4ever » Fri Mar 29, 2013 5:30 pm

Script is flawed in a lot of ways. For one, it was the foundation for such a horrible movie. A script contains more than dialogue, ya know. It details entire scenes and sometimes even specific shots for the crew and gestures for the actors. If a scene is flawed or feels clumsy and it's apparent that there was nothing taken out of the scene during editing, that's usually the fault of the script.

Guy Nacks
Evangelion
Evangelion
User avatar
Posts: 3025
Joined: Nov 28, 2012
Gender: Male

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Guy Nacks » Fri Mar 29, 2013 5:59 pm

View Original PostElect G-Max wrote:What's TDSA?


One of the most enthusiastic kaiju fans of all time with a rather unique, and somewhat appreciated opinion on films, usually giving high ratings to films that are generally perceived to be bad and/or giving bad ratings to films that are generally perceived to be classics.
Among the people who use the Internet, many are obtuse. Because they are locked in their rooms, they hang on to that vision which is spreading across the world. But this does not go beyond mere ‘data’. Data without analysis [thinking], which makes you think that you know everything. This complacency is nothing but a trap. Moreover, the sense of values that counters this notion is paralyzed by it.

And so we arrive at demagogy. - Hideaki Anno, 1996

Blue Monday
Angel
Angel
User avatar
Age: 30
Posts: 3360
Joined: Jun 17, 2012
Location: Earth-33

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Blue Monday » Fri Mar 29, 2013 11:45 pm

View Original PostElect G-Max wrote:a lot of over-analytical jacking off

Welcome to the boards!

:tongue:


View Original PostBagheera wrote:Blue: Forgot to mention, that script looks interesting. It's a damn sight better than most other Alien 3 scripts I've seen floating around the net. Though that's not saying much.

Pretty much. An interesting read in the least, hehe.
"Eva(Geeks) is a story that repeats."
Warren Peace, #643919

thewayneiac
Committeeman
Committeeman
User avatar
Posts: 1585
Joined: Aug 26, 2004
Location: How Kaworu got to the Moon

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby thewayneiac » Mon Apr 01, 2013 7:49 pm

View Original PostElect G-Max wrote:What's TDSA?


Here's an example:

[url]http://forum.evageeks.org/thread/12241/Tangent-TDSA-hates-nanoha-but-everyone-already-knew-that/0/?[/url]
Rejoice, glory is ours. Our young men have not died in vain. Their graves need no flowers. The tapes have recorded their names.
I am all there is.
Negative! Primative! Limited! I let you live.
But I gave you life.
What else could you do?
To do what was right.
I'm perfect, are you?

Kaminoyouni
Zeruel
Zeruel
User avatar
Age: 31
Posts: 815
Joined: Feb 21, 2007
Location: here
Gender: Male
Contact:

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Kaminoyouni » Mon Apr 01, 2013 9:41 pm

I suppose its come time to Necro this with a look at the most resent entry in the series with.. Colonial Marines. Now before we start beating a dead Ox with how awful the game is (although I suppose the games failure won't be totally complete until all the DLC is out.) I fully recognize all the criticism that the game has and I fully agree with most of it. However despite its massive flaws I really wanted to try and see where I could get a glimpse of what was suppose to make this game good originally, story wise that is. (I say this because I got the collector's edition, which i like to think I paid 60 for the statue and 40 for a shitty game.)


SPOILER: Show
I want to say I can sometimes see something to it, I'd have to say that because of a multitude of reasons (partly by outsourcing the games development not to mention Sega's rushing of said development) a lot of things probably didn't make it into the game. However things like what really happened After A3 (which BTW I should point out that this a is really a sequel to A3 more then it is to Aliens) that brought the Sulaco back to LV426, or the "supposed" connection to Bella we were meant to feel, though not one person gave two shits about her through the game. I feel Jared here conveys some this really well http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sEE2ZHo8jyI

Like when I've been re-playing it, I can sometime try and make some connection to try and see what Mikey was trying to but it and ultimately didn't get into, like O'neals relationship with Bella, like they were together before hand but split up,
Proud Member of F.A.P.
"A twenty-nine year-old woman having her way with a fourteen year-old boy? This is perversion! This is ephebophilia!"
"Ephebophelia...? This is SHOTA!"

WARNING: Brik is being incredibly awesome

Join the Evageeks discord!

Tribblepoo
Israfel
Israfel
User avatar
Age: 42
Posts: 483
Joined: Mar 02, 2012
Location: Head is firmly up...nevermind.
Gender: Male

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Tribblepoo » Tue Apr 02, 2013 4:44 pm

My impressions of the series, and please bear with me if these seem somewhat lengthy.

Alien
Like has been said before, a masterpiece of a film. Scott delivered a gripping sci-fi/horror (or a suspense/thriller, depending on your point of view) that drove home what horror should be. Not a lot of blood and guts, but much more of a play on realizing just how easily humans can be taken off the pedestal of top dog in the food chain. I have seen both the theatrical release and the director's cut (do not watch the director's cut without a strong stomach) and both versions are equally as good. I can tell they had a hard time deciding what to cut to make it acceptable for theatrical release.

Aliens
There's still some debate as to whether or not Ridley Scott got screwed out of his own sequel, but James Cameron stepped up and fucking delivered. This film is on my list of favorite films of all time for a reason. Everything in this movie just sparkled. The plot was great and flowed logically and the performances of the actors involved really sold the story. The spectacular sets and effects only helped all this along. To this day, I don't think I have seen an action movie that has been so well put together or so plot-oriented.

I also think Aliens is an oft-overlooked landmark film in a couple of areas. This movie made Cameron's career, giving us a glimpse of the spectacular movie experiences we'd see later (such as Terminator 2, Titanic and Avatar). Weaver's performance (which was nominated for a Best Actress Oscar) really threw open the doors for women to be action stars.

Alien 3
When speaking of this series, I often refer to Star Trek Voyager. The apparent intent and points of failure seem to be identical in both. The point of Alien 3 seems to have been a return to the roots of the franchise; horror/suspense. However, like Voyager, it was way too heavy-handed in its approach in this. If the movie was a stand-alone plot by itself, it would have been an average film. However, when inevitably (and justifiably) compared to its predecessors, it failed. In short, it tried too hard to be like Alien, just as Voyager tried too hard to be like TOS.

Alien Resurrection
I have long been a proponent of the line of thought that one moment in a movie can completely ruin a film, no matter how good the rest of it is. Alien Resurrection is a case study in this concept. The movie begins with a great premise; man fucking with shit he shouldn't be fucking with (which in itself is a subtle reference to the AvP graphic novels and video games). The predictable results of this sort of scientific endeavor sort of throws this movie into a little bit of a techno-thriller bent, which was interesting and led to a good plot. However, there's that moment with the queen giving birth like a human...

What the flying fuck? I had no idea who thought that was a good idea for a plot twist, how they came up with it or why they thought it was good enough to toss into the latest multi-million dollar installment of a successful and loved franchise, but I really want to throttle them with a length of chicken intestine for this offense. That scene ruined what would have been a great, fun movie.

Finally, Prometheus
(I personally believe the intent of Prometheus is to be a prequel, but I know my opinion isn't shared by everyone, so I have put the following in a spoiler for those who don't want to read)
SPOILER: Show
Ridley Scott is back in the saddle of his creation and in my opinion, he didn't fail. He pulled off the switch from "enlightening journey" to "oh god, oh god we're all going to fucking die" beautifully. To me the plot was believable and the acting was decent enough to sell it, though wasn't outstanding. The big flaw in this movie is something more commonly found in the superhero genre (Spawn, Ghost Rider, Spider-Man 3); they tried to pack too much into the movie. Scott tried to cover too many points of interest into the film and ended up covering almost none of it well enough to satisfy a general audience. Now, this may be completely intentional to promote speculation on certain aspects of the film. The viral marketing campaign seems to support this. While the movie was enjoyable overall, the plot points packed like sardines really did make this a sub-par franchise film.


If I were to list the movies in order of my enjoyment of them, I'd have to list them in the following order;
1) Aliens
2) Alien
3) Alien 3
4) Prometheus (if one considers this a part of the franchise).
5) Alien Resurrection
"Having sex with extreme gas must be how the Scots came up with the idea for bagpipes."

Elect G-Max
Tunniel
User avatar
Age: 39
Posts: 198
Joined: Mar 01, 2013

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Elect G-Max » Tue Apr 02, 2013 7:28 pm

One line can ruin an entire post. In this case, what ruined your entire post was your claim that the plot of Prometheus was something other than schizophrenic keyboard diarrhea.
"Whatever the story or the development of the characters, I made them without a plan... We only started working on the next script once the previous one was done." - Anno, 1996

"Sometimes, putting your toothbrush in its holder upside down can express your feelings towards life in general, your secret desire to commit suicide, the feelings for your long-lost mother that you never got to know, and your favorite color. But sometimes that toothbrush is simply a toothbrush." - Nuclear Lunchbox

Tribblepoo
Israfel
Israfel
User avatar
Age: 42
Posts: 483
Joined: Mar 02, 2012
Location: Head is firmly up...nevermind.
Gender: Male

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Tribblepoo » Tue Apr 02, 2013 7:38 pm

View Original PostElect G-Max wrote:One line can ruin an entire post. In this case, what ruined your entire post was your claim that the plot of Prometheus was something other than schizophrenic keyboard diarrhea.

Oh yay, an insult because I hold a different view than you. Go tell someone who cares.
"Having sex with extreme gas must be how the Scots came up with the idea for bagpipes."

moonwolf2024
Armisael
Armisael
User avatar
Age: 34
Posts: 917
Joined: Dec 12, 2012
Location: Deep Space, FL
Gender: Female

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby moonwolf2024 » Wed Apr 03, 2013 6:57 pm

Totally agreed with everything you said here. Couldn't have said it more eloquently. As for Resurrection, loved it, but the whole human looking alien was not working for me. Didn't mind how it gave birth...just what it gave birth to. EWW :yuck:

And yes, Aliens was the best one. I think everyone can quote something from that movie.


View Original PostTribblepoo wrote:My impressions of the series, and please bear with me if these seem somewhat lengthy.

SPOILER: Show
Alien
Like has been said before, a masterpiece of a film. Scott delivered a gripping sci-fi/horror (or a suspense/thriller, depending on your point of view) that drove home what horror should be. Not a lot of blood and guts, but much more of a play on realizing just how easily humans can be taken off the pedestal of top dog in the food chain. I have seen both the theatrical release and the director's cut (do not watch the director's cut without a strong stomach) and both versions are equally as good. I can tell they had a hard time deciding what to cut to make it acceptable for theatrical release.

Aliens
There's still some debate as to whether or not Ridley Scott got screwed out of his own sequel, but James Cameron stepped up and fucking delivered. This film is on my list of favorite films of all time for a reason. Everything in this movie just sparkled. The plot was great and flowed logically and the performances of the actors involved really sold the story. The spectacular sets and effects only helped all this along. To this day, I don't think I have seen an action movie that has been so well put together or so plot-oriented.

I also think Aliens is an oft-overlooked landmark film in a couple of areas. This movie made Cameron's career, giving us a glimpse of the spectacular movie experiences we'd see later (such as Terminator 2, Titanic and Avatar). Weaver's performance (which was nominated for a Best Actress Oscar) really threw open the doors for women to be action stars.

Alien 3
When speaking of this series, I often refer to Star Trek Voyager. The apparent intent and points of failure seem to be identical in both. The point of Alien 3 seems to have been a return to the roots of the franchise; horror/suspense. However, like Voyager, it was way too heavy-handed in its approach in this. If the movie was a stand-alone plot by itself, it would have been an average film. However, when inevitably (and justifiably) compared to its predecessors, it failed. In short, it tried too hard to be like Alien, just as Voyager tried too hard to be like TOS.

Alien Resurrection
I have long been a proponent of the line of thought that one moment in a movie can completely ruin a film, no matter how good the rest of it is. Alien Resurrection is a case study in this concept. The movie begins with a great premise; man fucking with shit he shouldn't be fucking with (which in itself is a subtle reference to the AvP graphic novels and video games). The predictable results of this sort of scientific endeavor sort of throws this movie into a little bit of a techno-thriller bent, which was interesting and led to a good plot. However, there's that moment with the queen giving birth like a human...

What the flying fuck? I had no idea who thought that was a good idea for a plot twist, how they came up with it or why they thought it was good enough to toss into the latest multi-million dollar installment of a successful and loved franchise, but I really want to throttle them with a length of chicken intestine for this offense. That scene ruined what would have been a great, fun movie.

Finally, Prometheus
(I personally believe the intent of Prometheus is to be a prequel, but I know my opinion isn't shared by everyone, so I have put the following in a spoiler for those who don't want to read)
[spoiler]Ridley Scott is back in the saddle of his creation and in my opinion, he didn't fail. He pulled off the switch from "enlightening journey" to "oh god, oh god we're all going to fucking die" beautifully. To me the plot was believable and the acting was decent enough to sell it, though wasn't outstanding. The big flaw in this movie is something more commonly found in the superhero genre (Spawn, Ghost Rider, Spider-Man 3); they tried to pack too much into the movie. Scott tried to cover too many points of interest into the film and ended up covering almost none of it well enough to satisfy a general audience. Now, this may be completely intentional to promote speculation on certain aspects of the film. The viral marketing campaign seems to support this. While the movie was enjoyable overall, the plot points packed like sardines really did make this a sub-par franchise film.
[/spoiler]
Maybe if you shut up and stop over analyzing everything you just might get it........

movieartman
Pilot
Pilot
Age: 28
Posts: 2107
Joined: Feb 24, 2014
Gender: Male

Re: [Film] Prometheus + Sequels

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby movieartman » Thu Mar 14, 2019 3:50 am

Latest Alien related news...

A comic adaption of William Gibson's early Cold War metaphor focused Alien 3 script is currently being released (would like to see more comic/graphic novel adoptions of unmade film projects in general), haven't read but looks decent besides Ripley being in a coma most of the series I think (?), better then her being killed off before the start of the film like one of the other scripts had happen.

Most excitingly, we will be getting 6 official Fox produced Alien short films for the 40th anniversary.
Trailer & synopsis here...
https://www.comicbookmovie.com/sci-fi/a ... ms-a167137
Love this idea, hope they might do the same with Predator down the road.


Return to “Film and Video”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest