Current view of the Rebuild series and last movie expectations

Discussion of the new series of Evangelion movies ( "Evangelion Shin Gekijōban", meaning "Evangelion: New Theatrical Edition").
The third installment debuted in Japan on November 17, 2012.

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Re: Current view of the Rebuild series and last movie expectations

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Postby Joseki » Fri Jan 18, 2019 6:44 am

It doesn't use another's story elements. It uses its own elements. Shinji, Asuka and Rei are their own unique characters in the movies and they are different from their NGE counterparts. It's a different story altogether.

The origin of the angel isn't relevant to the story, so they shouldn't be in the story you wrote. Then why are they in NGE in the first place?

You seem to completely miss the concept of using narrative devices to "establishing a tone and a feeling" and you just strip down every element to their purpose and explaination for the plot.

A story isn't just that.
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Re: Current view of the Rebuild series and last movie expectations

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Postby kuribo-04 » Fri Jan 18, 2019 9:03 am

If they aren't relevant to what the movies are about. then they shouldn't be in it. That they're in it despite not being relevant to what the story is about is an example of

They have their role, they just aren't the most important thing.
They are the "anxiety inducing problem", they could have been anything, but why not make them visually stunning monsters?
Also, in NGE the thematic relevance of Angels doesn't become clear till the last episodes. Let's see what the last film (25% of the movie series) brings.
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Re: Current view of the Rebuild series and last movie expectations

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Postby Saint Eva » Fri Jan 18, 2019 9:09 am

Well Gendo still has its trump card right inside as the power source of Wunder, Unit01. Ritsuko comments about how Wille is not only using Unit01 as a battery but also as a way to control Wunder. In 1.1, the footage of Unit01 going berserk was blank. Misato wondered about the coincidence of Shinji being brought in the day of Angel attack without any training and defeating it. Ritsuko also raised her concerns over Gendo making his mentally unstable son, pilot the Eva. I don't think Wille have any idea Yui being the control system of Unit01.

I guess everyone thinks that Shinji and Gendo are in cahoots and Shinji was following his Dad's plans to trying to initiate an Impact on his own in 2.0, that's why call the choker "symbol of mistrust". I honestly think Yui took control from Shinji, the moment its eyes turned red and it re-activated. No way Shinji can ever do AT field hands, levitate, eye lasers, grow halo, wings and open doors of guf. He's too emotional and inexperienced to pull-off such creative moves. His synch-rate was already over 200% and rising halfway through the fight. I think he was completely absorbed in the core, even before Unit01 made contact with Zeruel's core. Unit-13 eyes also turned red the moment Shinji grabbed the spears, it overrode both Shinji and Kaworu's controls. Mk.09 also overrode ReiQ controls and even operated without a pilot. I think Finale will give us Yui making a heel-turn and revealing her to be in cahoots with Gendo.

I think from Rebuilds, Anno intends to resolve Shinji's parental conflict for good. It still bothers me that Shinji and Gendo conflict was dropped after Ep.18 and didn't even confronted each other in EoE. Shinji's entire problems started because he witnessed Yui getting absorbed and Gendo abandoning him to some teacher. Here it's implied that it was all part of Gendo's plans that he created around Shinji's birth which needed him to get close to Rei. That's why Misato and Kaji are now more of a father and mother to Shinji then they ever were in the original.

Rebuilds are still about Hedgehog Dilemma- Hedgehog need to come close to each other share warmth during a cold weather. Where do we see the old cast- in a icy cold region with colder attitudes, and 2nd biggest "Hedgehog" after Shinji, Misato staying 10 feet away from him in the same room and not even looking at him. In NGE, once you get absorbed inside an Eva, you're never coming back. I believe Shinji's "death" really hit Misato hard, making her adopt Gendoesque clothes and colder demeanor that will keep everyone away from her. After all, she was one who has biggest hand after Gendo in making Shinji walk the painful path of an Eva pilot and cheering him which led to him getting "killed". Gendo also changed himself when Yui got "absorbed" and pushed everyone away from him. 14 years later, Shinji just comes back from "dead" and now Misato and Asuka are afraid of being close to him and experiencing same pain. Failure in coming close and communication led to all disasters in 3.0 and allowed Shinji's birth parents to manipulate him for their own goals and making sure Shinji and others may never trust each other again.

I think message of the Rebuilds will be that even after facing so many difficulties and horrors, this time not just Shinji but others too must get close and trust each other if they want to move forward in life, no matter how painful can it be.

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Re: Current view of the Rebuild series and last movie expectations

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Postby PenPen4life » Fri Jan 18, 2019 10:23 am

View Original PostJoseki wrote:It doesn't use another's story elements. It uses its own elements. Shinji, Asuka and Rei are their own unique characters in the movies and they are different from their NGE counterparts. It's a different story altogether.

They have very similar character designs, and very similar initial motivations, and start out in a very similar world. They aren't original characters, they're simply adjusted versions of nge's characters, hence why it's called Rebuild of Evangelion. This story is repurposing another story's elements to save itself some of the necessary legwork in setting up it's own narrative. If this wasn't the case, then this movie would not be tied to NGE. Because this story ties it self with the og eva, it shall be compared to the og eva. If Anno wished otherwise, he should have made a new story.

Then why are they in NGE in the first place?
Uh, because they symbolize the escapist illusion that Seele and Shinji intially wish for? And Shinji's primary arc builds up to him rejecting that illusion? Like seriously? There's so much narrative significance with the angels in NGE when you look at Seele, and Kaworu, their desire for the fruit of knowledge, how eva models mirror them, the souls of mom's? Horrible Horrible example yeah. The angels in nge aren't pointless filler and are completely relevant to what the story's about. hence their existence in the story is wholly justified.
You seem to completely miss the concept of using narrative devices to "establishing a tone and a feeling".

Establishing tone and feeling and being meaningful to the narrative are not mutually exclusive concepts.
and you just strip down every element to their purpose and explaination for the plot.

WTF? Plot=/ what the story is about. The Angels are indeed a plot element, the question is whether they're a meaningful one. If they aren't, then they're a waste of screen-time that only hold any sort of significance based on what NGE told us about them.

View Original Postkuribo-04 wrote:They have their role, they just aren't the most important thing.
They are the "anxiety inducing problem", they could have been anything, but why not make them visually stunning monsters?

Because the visually stunning monsters aren't needed to incite meaningful change in the other characters rendering the "anxiety inducing bit" rather irrelevant.
Also, in NGE the thematic relevance of Angels doesn't become clear till the last episodes. Let's see what the last film (25% of the movie series) brings.

Orrrrrrrr. We could just evaluate them based on what we've seen, and then revaluate them if the new movie adds something? Like, you're allowed to change your opinion once you get new material to re contextualize things...

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Re: Current view of the Rebuild series and last movie expectations

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Postby BlueBasilisk » Fri Jan 18, 2019 1:10 pm

The Angels are a mirror of the Hedgehog's Dilemma and one of the central themes of the movies which is the individual vs the collective. The Angels represent the monolithic individual on the one side. That's how they're introduced to us. Near-perfect beings blessed with the Fruit of Life which allows them to function fully independently and autonomously. They don't need any kind of support to live and they have the AT Field to protect them from any dangers or unpleasantness in the world.

Of course you have the Lilin on the other side, who exist and thrive as a collective entity. Weak alone, stronger together. The message is made abundantly clear in two battles: The 6th Angel and the 8th. Ramiel is a fortress unto itself, a nearly perfect foe with near impenetrable defenses. It's brought down by the combined power of Nerv, the Evas 00 and 01, and all of the energy of Japan being brought to bear against it. The system brings down the juggernaut. Same with Sahaquiel. It was larger and more powerful than any of the Evas. None of them could have defeated it alone but the three of them together did. And it just so happens that these are Shinji's two greatest successes in the movies. He's injured but he's also victorious and things look up for him. He makes connections.

His greatest failures are when he rejects others or the world and acts on his own with no consideration for other people. He bum rushed the 5th Angel, ignoring the safety of his passengers, his orders and without consideration for the potential consequences of his actions, and he was punished for it. In 2.0 he throws away his humanity and rejects any concern for the world in pursuit of his own selfish desire and the end result is that he essentially becomes an Angel himself.

Same thing happens to him again in 3.0, and it happens to Mari, Asuka and Rei. They lose their humanity and become Angels, Angel-like or part of Angels through rejection and isolation. Rei and Mari both had their greatest success against Zeruel for that brief moment where they fought it together. Asuka was infected by the 9th Angel by piloting Unit 03. Yes, she was doing something nice for Rei, but she was also blowing off a social function because she was clinging to Eva and her idea of being the elite. Even Kaworu who was ALREADY an Angel fell and became some other type of Angel by acting according to his own wishes and plans to bring Shinji happiness without really understanding what it was Shinji actually wanted and needed until it was too late. And how was he defeated? By Gendo bringing a network of resources against him again.

This conflict is mirrored at multiple levels of the story. The Evas require vast support infrastructure vs the Angels who act independently. Wille's Evas stick with this while NERV and Seele's Evas are more autonomous and exhibit more Angelic traits. Wille itself is a big, messy organization with lots of people. Neo-NERV is a lonely, desolate, abandoned shithole that's about as isolated as it can be and is almost if not fully automated. Further within NERV you have Seele, a small handful of assholes who gave up whatever humanity they had and hid away from the world to follow their own agenda for humanity regardless of what they want.

Down at the personal level you have the Children who are anti-social loners that shy away from the world and society, preferring to be on their own. Shinji's SDAT is his own metaphorical AT Field. He uses it to shut the world out of his mind and heart because it's unpleasant and cruel.

All of that's just taking the movies into consideration. You can get that with zero knowledge of the TV series or what it did just by paying attention to what the movies shows and tell you. It doesn't really matter if the Angels are aliens or ancient super weapons or whatever. What matters is what they represent and how confronting them influences the characters. You see that humans and Angels aren't so far removed when they start turning into each other and our protagonists are now somewhere in the middle.

Same theme is explored in Shin Godzilla in about two hours. Piddly little humans vs the ever-changing, nigh-indestructible single Godzilla. Humanity cooperation puts a stop to Godzilla
SPOILER: Show
with the twist that Godzilla's ultimate evolution is him splitting off into numerous smaller humanoids.
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Re: Current view of the Rebuild series and last movie expectations

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Postby AdamMalkovitch » Fri Jan 18, 2019 1:44 pm

After seeing The Curse of Evangelion (probably my favorite video essay ever), I'm incredibly excited to see what's done with the conclusion. I had never connected all of it together before, that the barren and life-devoid Tokyo-3 was a metaphor for the stagnation of the franchise despite all of Mr.Anno's best efforts to do the opposite. Even the 14 years metaphor sailed right over my head for over 3 years now. Originally, I expected for 3.0+1.0 (or is it the other way around?) to be what everyone thought End of Evangelion was; revenge, but for real this time. Now however, I'm thinking that Shinji will see and understand that his actions, his way of acting so brashly without thinking at the climax of 2.0, truly did hurt many people. I predict he will bond with Asuka and Mari, and his main goal will be to attempt to rekindle his relationship with Misato while forging a relationship with the new person known as Rei Q. After all of this, he will once again be given the choice to decide whether or not to initiate Instrumentality, but because he knows people love him, and that his life is worth something because of that, he will refuse. Fuyutsuki will absolutely die, and Gendo may, but I'm hoping there's a moment of mutual understanding between Shinji and Gendo. At the end, once again left intentionally ambiguous just like Neon Genesis and the manga adaption before, but Shinji will state, "I am NOT alone. I CAN advance. I may not be able to redo things, but we can all make them better". The film ends on a shot of Asuka's doll, Shinji's SDAT, Rei II's pill bottle, and Mari's glasses all in a circle.
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Re: Current view of the Rebuild series and last movie expectations

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Postby PenPen4life » Fri Jan 18, 2019 4:08 pm

I'm open to the idea of the angels being narrative significant without NGE(I'd appreciate if you could cite links or time stamps for some of the examples you're referencing), however they are narratively significant, then this is rendered moot:
Sure they still had questions like "what are the angels?" and such, but they weren't relevant to what the movies really are about
.

If something is on screen, it's fair game for questioning. If it's not relevant to the narrative it's a waste of time. If it is relevant to the narrative than "what are the angels?" is a perfectly fair question.

To address your comments:
View Original PostBlueBasilisk wrote:

Same thing happens to him again in 3.0, and it happens to Mari, Asuka and Rei. They lose their humanity and become Angels, Angel-like or part of Angels through rejection and isolation. Rei and Mari both had their greatest success against Zeruel for that brief moment where they fought it together. Asuka was infected by the 9th Angel by piloting Unit 03. Yes, she was doing something nice for Rei, but she was also blowing off a social function because she was clinging to Eva and her idea of being the elite. Even Kaworu who was ALREADY an Angel fell and became some other type of Angel by acting according to his own wishes and plans to bring Shinji happiness without really understanding what it was Shinji actually wanted and needed until it was too late. And how was he defeated? By Gendo bringing a network of resources against him again.

This conflict is mirrored at multiple levels of the story. The Evas require vast support infrastructure vs the Angels who act independently. Wille's Evas stick with this while NERV and Seele's Evas are more autonomous and exhibit more Angelic traits. Wille itself is a big, messy organization with lots of people. Neo-NERV is a lonely, desolate, abandoned shithole that's about as isolated as it can be and is almost if not fully automated. Further within NERV you have Seele, a small handful of assholes who gave up whatever humanity they had and hid away from the world to follow their own agenda for humanity regardless of what they want.

Down at the personal level you have the Children who are anti-social loners that shy away from the world and society, preferring to be on their own. Shinji's SDAT is his own metaphorical AT Field. He uses it to shut the world out of his mind and heart because it's unpleasant and cruel.

All of that's just taking the movies into consideration. You can get that with zero knowledge of the TV series or what it did just by paying attention to what the movies shows and tell you. It doesn't really matter if the Angels are aliens or ancient super weapons or whatever. What matters is what they represent and how confronting them influences the characters. You see that humans and Angels aren't so far removed when they start turning into each other and our protagonists are now somewhere in the middle.
[/spoiler]

While you're pointing out a lot of things from the protag side here, I'm not seeing any details regarding the angels. Unless the mystery ends up being a meaningful aspect of the narrative, seeing only one side of things greatly limits the potential impact of the angels. This matters because the story itself chooses to give the angels significant screen time. While inferring everything from the protag side is acceptable on its own, the fact that the angels were re-purposed from a show that showed both sides and did legwork regarding the angels brings into question why this change was made regarding the angels. And if the angels needed to be stripped down. then you also should strip down their screen time as they now have less to offer the narrative.

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Re: Current view of the Rebuild series and last movie expectations

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Postby kuribo-04 » Fri Jan 18, 2019 5:41 pm

And if the angels needed to be stripped down. then you also should strip down their screen time as they now have less to offer the narrative.

I just really disagree with this. Could be we have very different views on film.
They make for visually stunning set pieces that take nothing from the film. I don't see how their existence makes the film worse in any way.
And the story is still unfinished.
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Ryuko: "I'm gonna knock ya on your asses!"
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Re: Current view of the Rebuild series and last movie expectations

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Postby pwhodges » Fri Jan 18, 2019 6:29 pm

View Original PostPenPen4life wrote:If something is on screen, it's fair game for questioning. If it's not relevant to the narrative it's a waste of time. If it is relevant to the narrative than "what are the angels?" is a perfectly fair question.

You can ask, but you may not get answers. The battles with the angels help set up the tensions and issues which the pilots, and Shinji in particular, have. Thus they are serving a function in the films. But it is not necessary to know details of what they are or where they come from, because these things don't factor into setting up the psychological dynamics which are the main subject of the films.

So the answer to your question is simply: "they are the reason the pilots have to fight, which factors into their psychological states".
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Re: Current view of the Rebuild series and last movie expectations

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Postby Melkor » Sat Jan 19, 2019 3:02 am

View Original PostAdamMalkovitch wrote:After seeing The Curse of Evangelion (probably my favorite video essay ever), I'm incredibly excited to see what's done with the conclusion. I had never connected all of it together before, that the barren and life-devoid Tokyo-3 was a metaphor for the stagnation of the franchise despite all of Mr.Anno's best efforts to do the opposite. Even the 14 years metaphor sailed right over my head for over 3 years now. Originally, I expected for 3.0+1.0 (or is it the other way around?) to be what everyone thought End of Evangelion was; revenge, but for real this time. Now however, I'm thinking that Shinji will see and understand that his actions, his way of acting so brashly without thinking at the climax of 2.0, truly did hurt many people. I predict he will bond with Asuka and Mari, and his main goal will be to attempt to rekindle his relationship with Misato while forging a relationship with the new person known as Rei Q. After all of this, he will once again be given the choice to decide whether or not to initiate Instrumentality, but because he knows people love him, and that his life is worth something because of that, he will refuse. Fuyutsuki will absolutely die, and Gendo may, but I'm hoping there's a moment of mutual understanding between Shinji and Gendo. At the end, once again left intentionally ambiguous just like Neon Genesis and the manga adaption before, but Shinji will state, "I am NOT alone. I CAN advance. I may not be able to redo things, but we can all make them better". The film ends on a shot of Asuka's doll, Shinji's SDAT, Rei II's pill bottle, and Mari's glasses all in a circle.


I really like this idea. It reminds me of a dream I once had about a potential ending for 3.0+1.0 (I'm sure we've all had those kinds of dreams during this long wait for the final movie). About a week ago I made a thread where I shared another dream I had related to the Rebuilds, but this is a different one. It picks up during what I can only assume is near the end what would be the movie's story. I'll do my best to describe what I can remember and try to piece it together, given that a lot of context is missing. The ending I saw wasn't completely happy or completely tragic, but more along the lines of bittersweet. It starts by showing the end of Final Impact after Shinji has rejected Human Instrumentality, and he's inside some sort of giant red core thing filled with a swirling vortex of souls, and it's floating in the sky beneath the Gates of Guf. Unit 01 and Unit 13 are there as well, floating at opposite sides of the core thing, so I assume they played some part in initiating Final Impact. The core thing is being pulled into the Gates of Guf along with all the Failures of Infinity that were created during Third Impact, and seeing as there's no way for him to get out of the core, Shinji simply resigns himself to his fate of being pulled along with them, satisfied that he at least saved the world by stopping Human Instrumentality.

Asuka then shows up and dives into the core with her EVA in an attempt to save Shinji and pull him out, the whole scenario exactly mirroring what Shinji did at the end of 2.0 to save Rei and pull her out of Zeruel. As she's diving deeper and deeper into the core, Asuka's EVA is ripped apart and destroyed, leaving her to continue on in human form, and as this happens the contamination from Bardiel begins to spread all over her body. Asuka fights through the pain, determined to rescue Shinji, and one of the souls in the vortex she sees is that of Gendo (I guess the vortex contains the souls of the deceased, so I guess Gendo died), and she tells Gendo "You're the whole reason he ended up like this in the first place!", referring to Gendo's treatment of Shinji being what led him to become the person that he was. She eventually manages to make her way to Shinji, whose body is completely white and is just sitting there, much like Rei was inside Zeruel, and she reaches her hand out to him and says "Take my hand idiot!" Surprised to see Asuka there, Shinji grabs her hand and she pulls him out of the core with her, Asuka hugging him the same way Shinji hugged Rei after he pulled her out of Zeruel. After exiting the core, the leftover bits of Bardiel inside Asuka are destroyed, causing massive injuries to her body, and she lands in a pool of LCL on the ground below with Shinji.

As the Gates of Guf are closing, the soul of Rei II takes over as the dominant soul of Unit 01 and ejects Yui from it, after which Unit 01, controlled by the soul of Rei II, and Unit 13, controlled by the soul of Kaworu, are sent into space. Yui, now back in her human body, lands in the pool of LCL below, and as this is happening Rei and Kaworu's voices speak to her, telling her she should return to the ones who love her most rather than continuing to live in a false reality. According to Rei and Kaworu, what Yui did by placing her soul inside Unit 01 was no different than what Shinji did when he caused Near Third Impact by trying to save Rei, their selfish actions hurting the people closest to them and leading to all the grief and suffering that followed. Yui realizes her sin and decides to forget about whatever plan she had for the EVAs, ready to instead just go back to being with those who care about her.

In the next scene Shinji wakes up and finds himself in a hospital room, where he is greeted by Rei Q and Mari, and remembering what happened he asks them where Asuka is. They lead him to another room in the hospital, where Asuka is in critical condition. The damage Asuka's body sustained is severe, and now she is slowly dying. Nothing can save her now, and hearing this Shinji rushes over to her side, distraught and asking her why she went to such lengths to save him if she knew this would happen to her. Shinji apologizes to her repeatedly, saying that it's all his fault why she ended up like this and that she should have just left him, because now it's like he's killed her a second time. Asuka then reaches out towards Shinji and puts her hand on his face in a gentle manner (much like she did after Shinji tried to strangle her on the beach in End of Evangelion) and says "You can't even figure that out? You really are an idiot Shinji." smiling at him as she says this. She tells Shinji that it was her choice to do it, and, and that she doesn't regret it and would do it again if she had to. In her final moments Asuka's usual tsundere personality fades away and she shows a much kinder and softer side to Shinji. As she is dying Asuka asks Shinji to stay by her side, and he does, holding her hand until she finally succumbs to her injuries.

After this Shinji finds himself outside in the courtyard of the hospital by himself, where he remembers Kaworu's final words to him, feeling the same pain after Asuka's death that he felt after Kaworu's. Shinji now finally realizes how stupid and selfish he has really been, and that there were people who cared about him all along, one of them even going so far as to risk their life in the same way he did for Rei just to save him, but now she's dead. Shinji then breaks down into tears and starts crying, resenting the fact that he is only now realizing this when it's already too late. Seeing Shinji on his knees just bawling his eyes out like that was so heartbreaking to watch. Off in the distance, Yui, who is wearing a hospital gown and standing on one of the balconies, recognizes Shinji (at this point Shinji does not know she is back yet), and she walks down to the hospital courtyard to see him.

What follows is a really beautiful and heartfelt moment where Yui just quietly approaches Shinji hugs him. Thinking that it's Rei Q at first, the look on Shinji's face turns to one of pure shock when looks up and he sees that it's his mother Yui hugging him, not sure if what he is seeing is real or if it's a dream. Shinji must have been feeling so many different conflicting emotions in that moment. It sucks that Asuka died, and right as she and Shinji were finally opening up to each other and realizing how much the other meant to them, but at least on the plus side Shinji is now reunited with his mother. Everything then cuts to black, and all you can hear is Yui saying what she said to Shinji in End of Evangelion: "Anywhere can be paradise as long as you have the will to live. After all, you are alive, so you will always have the chance to be happy. As long as the Sun, the Moon, and the Earth exist, everything will be all right."

It then cuts to the next scene and some text appears that says "six years later" and it shows Shinji and Rei Q, who are now both older (both looking to be about 18-20), sitting in the back of a car being driven by Yui. Humanity has started to rebuild after the events of Final Impact, and things have seemingly begun to return to the way they were before. Yui and Shinji have since reconnected with each other, and Rei Q has been living with them, Yui having adopted her as a second child. Shinji now views Rei Q as his sister and Rei Q views Shinji as her brother, and the two have formed a strong sibling bond with each other. Rei Q in turn refers to Yui as "mother" and calls herself Rei Ikari, reflecting the fact that she has become a part of their family. This Rei has begun to develop a unique personality of her own, one distinct from that of the original Rei II, though she still seems a bit socially awkward. Rei also still has Shinji's SDAT, and apparently she has developed a taste for heavy metal music, which I found both odd and hilarious at the same time. Yui then stops the cars at some college campus and Shinji and Rei both get out a few suitcases they have packed, this being their first day of college. Yui tells them that she knows their teacher personally and that they will be alright, and she kisses them both goodbye before leaving.

After Yui leaves, presumably to go to work (wherever that might be now) Shinji and Rei head to their first class of the day and sit down. They are joined by Mari, who sits down next to them and appears to have aged a few years just like they have (I guess the Curse of the Eva was lifted after Final Impact, which is why Shinji, Rei, and Mari are all able to age now) and instead of her usual pigtails she now has her hair down all the way. Shinji and Mari seem to be really good friends, having stayed in contact with each other after the events of Final Impact, and they begin discussing the various nerdy things they're interested in. Next, the teacher finally walks in, and it's revealed to be Fuyutsuki, so I guess he survived the events of Final Impact and has gone back to teaching. I wonder who else survived, since there seems to be no sign of Misato or Ritsuko or any of the other Nerv staff who were a part of Willie. Perhaps teaching the next generation is Fuyutsuki's way of redeeming himself? Fuyutsuki then sees Shinji, Rei, and Mari sitting there together in the classroom, and he's immediately reminded of the time he first saw Yui in his classroom. He smiles and thinks to himself "it seems the end and the beginning really are one and the same". Hopefully this means things will turn out differently for Shinji, Rei, and Mari than they did for Gendo and Yui, and Fuyutsuki won't have to witness history repeat itself.

After this there's a quick montage of some random slice of life stuff that happens in their lives during college. In one shot Shinji is seen visiting Asuka's grave and leaving flowers, in another he and Mari are at some karaoke place singing together on stage, in another Rei seems to have made friends with a group of eccentric girls at the college and shows them a pile of love letters she has received from various boys at the college, feeling flustered and not sure what to do. Next there's a scene of Yui and Rei bonding together while gardening, and Shinji shows up with Mari. Shinji appears to be blushing, which might be a sign that he and Mari have started dating and is nervous about introducing her to Yui. The final shot then pans away to space, showing Unit 01 and Unit 13 in orbit around the Earth, and above Unit 01 is a ghostly representation of Rei II, while above Unit 13 is a ghostly representation of Kaworu (they're not literally there, but metaphorically), and that's where the dream ended. It was pretty cool getting to see how Shinji's life turned out. Shinji has suffered so much, and I'm glad he was able to be happy again and live normal life after reuniting with his mother. I guess the main underlying message behind this ending is that despite what may happen "life will go on." In a weird way, that alternate slice of life future Shinji saw in Episode 26 sort of came true, but in an unexpected way, and Asuka dying really made the whole thing bittersweet. I actually wouldn't mind reading a slice of life manga about Shinji's life after the Rebuilds, just as long as it doesn't do something stupid like making it so that nobody remembers anything about Human Instrumentality or the EVAs like the ending of the manga did, because that would pretty much invalidate all the lessons they learned.

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Re: Current view of the Rebuild series and last movie expectations

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Postby Ryuichi » Sat Jan 19, 2019 11:12 am

I think it's important to note that a story is not necessarily only about a character's phycology.

In Arthur C. Clarke's works (my favourite writer) the characters are usually just tools to explore the world. You can see that even in the movie he and Kubrick made, 2001: space odyssey. I studied astronomy and Earth sciences at university, so I definitely enjoy the scientific ideas, themes.

And the other thing I really enjoy is world building and detailed lore.

My favourite Tolkien book is the silmarillion, which is basically a lore book.

So while yeah, you can say Angels, and anything in that world is just a dressing, a random tool to put them into situations thus showing us the characters and evolving them, the world is indeed a very important part of the show, and I think I'm not alone who fell in love with it.

Also, I saw Shinji choosing the painful world , instead of closing himself off in depression in a godlike entity , twice, in the Original series and in EoE, so if we get something new, I hope it will be interesting from a world building point of view too.

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Re: Current view of the Rebuild series and last movie expectations

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Postby pwhodges » Sat Jan 19, 2019 11:17 am

View Original PostRyuichi wrote:I think it's important to note that a story is not necessarily only about a character's psychology..

But in this case that's the reason for the story to exist. That doesn't necessarily mean that the world-building can be ignored, but it does mean that it can take second place without harming the objective of the story.
"Being human, having your health; that's what's important." (from: Magical Shopping Arcade Abenobashi )
"As long as we're all living, and as long as we're all having fun, that should do it, right?" (from: The Eccentric Family )
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Re: Current view of the Rebuild series and last movie expectations

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Postby Ryuichi » Sat Jan 19, 2019 11:34 am

Though I don't know if that's the absolute priority in the show, how believable it is.
I think a real world 14 year old , seeing those monsters would star vomiting from shock and pass out. When I first so it as a ..15 year old I definitely thought the 14 year old pilot thing is a stretch.

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Re: Current view of the Rebuild series and last movie expectations

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Postby pwhodges » Sat Jan 19, 2019 2:45 pm

Ages in animanga are a bit contrived. Consider the number of school-children living on their own in any number of shows.
"Being human, having your health; that's what's important." (from: Magical Shopping Arcade Abenobashi )
"As long as we're all living, and as long as we're all having fun, that should do it, right?" (from: The Eccentric Family )
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Can't wait for 3.0+1.0? - try Afterwards... my post-Q Evangelion fanfic (discussion)

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Re: Current view of the Rebuild series and last movie expectations

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Postby PenPen4life » Sat Jan 19, 2019 6:21 pm

View Original PostRyuichi wrote:Though I don't know if that's the absolute priority in the show, how believable it is.
I think a real world 14 year old , seeing those monsters would star vomiting from shock and pass out. When I first so it as a ..15 year old I definitely thought the 14 year old pilot thing is a stretch.

The real world isn't relevant. What's relevant is what the universe itself establishes and that it plays by the rules itself establishes: internal consistency.

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Re: Current view of the Rebuild series and last movie expectations

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Postby kuribo-04 » Sun Jan 20, 2019 1:21 am

∆ I think that's true, but if a work distances itself too much from real life the story might not be interesting (if it isn't a story based on distancing itself from life, like a comedy might be). With Eva I think the distance isn't that big.
Shinji: "Sooner or later I'll be betrayed... And they'll leave me. Still... I want to meet them again, because I believe my feelings at that time were real."
Ryuko: "I'm gonna knock ya on your asses!"
-Asuka: THINK IN GERMAN!!! -Shinji: Öh... Baumkuchen...
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