What are aspects you actually like about Shikinami compared to Soryu as a character?

Discussion of the new series of Evangelion movies ( "Evangelion Shin Gekijōban", meaning "Evangelion: New Theatrical Edition").
The third installment debuted in Japan on November 17, 2012.

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What are aspects you actually like about Shikinami compared to Soryu as a character?

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Postby WunderBah » Tue Jan 15, 2019 4:44 pm

I've usually seen a lot of debates around Asuka's characterization between NGE & Rebuild boil down to Soryu's being more popular (for plenty of valid reasons too).

So I figured I'd create a topic discussing what aspects from Shikinami that one may have preferred/liked more in comparison. Anyhow, what do you guys personally think?

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Re: What are aspects you actually like about Shikinami compared to Soryu as a character?

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Postby The Eva Monkey » Tue Jan 15, 2019 5:17 pm

I liked her attachment to her Wonderswan. There's something about the vagueness of whether she really likes video games, uses video games as a means of ignoring others, or some combination of the two that I find interesting and think is a nice aspect of her character.

The TV series did something similar, but I always felt it was more of a situational thing.
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Re: What are aspects you actually like about Shikinami compared to Soryu as a character?

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Postby Melkor » Tue Jan 15, 2019 5:51 pm

^A wild Eva Monkey appears! Wow, I never thought you'd be a regular poster here. With how busy you must be, I figured I'd only ever see you post once in a blue moon.

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Re: What are aspects you actually like about Shikinami compared to Soryu as a character?

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Postby Joseki » Tue Jan 15, 2019 5:51 pm

She showed empathy for Shinji after the Central Dogma incident, even if he was in the wrong and if he caused years of pain to everyone. It's a something that I deeply respect in real life.

Soryu wouldn't have pulled Shinji out of the entry plug I think.

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She also looks better.
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Re: What are aspects you actually like about Shikinami compared to Soryu as a character?

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Postby The Eva Monkey » Tue Jan 15, 2019 7:07 pm

SPOILER: Show
View Original PostMelkor wrote:^A wild Eva Monkey appears! Wow, I never thought you'd be a regular poster here. With how busy you must be, I figured I'd only ever see you post once in a blue moon.

Ah, well, you know, I did start this forum, so I do pop in every now and again to check on it. I post less often than I visit.
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Re: What are aspects you actually like about Shikinami compared to Soryu as a character?

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Postby Melkor » Tue Jan 15, 2019 7:16 pm

View Original PostThe Eva Monkey wrote:
SPOILER: Show
Ah, well, you know, I did start this forum, so I do pop in every now and again to check on it. I post less often than I visit.


As you can probably tell, I'm a new member here, but I've been a long time Eva fan and finally decided to make an account after being a lurker for some time.

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Re: What are aspects you actually like about Shikinami compared to Soryu as a character?

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Postby BlueBasilisk » Tue Jan 15, 2019 7:41 pm

I like that she doesn't throw herself at Kaji. Never cared for that bit of Soryu's character.
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Re: What are aspects you actually like about Shikinami compared to Soryu as a character?

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Postby Gendo'sPapa » Tue Jan 15, 2019 9:15 pm

I like that she’s more vulnerable and willing to care for & work with others.

While it’s easy to read the last scene of 3.0 as Asuka just being mean to Shinji & kicking him because she can, with the body language as animated there’s a lot being expressed in that while she’s wearied she understands that this lost kid is in dire need of help and while she may not like and can’t mollycoddle him she’s also accepting to be there for him. That lone shot of her walking off away from the entry plug for a second to collect her thoughts and let out one resigned sigh before diving in to make Shinji stand up speaks volumes.

Asuka of NGE would absolutely have left him to die.

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Re: What are aspects you actually like about Shikinami compared to Soryu as a character?

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Postby FreakyFilmFan4ever » Wed Jan 16, 2019 12:20 am

Shikinami’s personality traits in general aren’t as obvious as Soryu’s, and I think that has more to do with Anno’s evolution as an artist than it does anything else. Yes, Soryu’s very blunt and to the point in NGE compared to Shikinami in NTE, but that’s also true of their respective works as a whole, not just true of the characters themselves. Just like the rest of the cast, Soryu's overall pathos as it builds throughout NGE into EoE is just so raw and exposed that it’s easy to feel more attached to that character.

NTE is a little more nuanced as a whole, despise its shorter overall runtime, and as a result of that and her diminished screen time in the series, a lot of Shikinami gets overshadowed by Soryu. (This is true with a lot of the two series.) However, I do appreciate Shikinami’s consideration of others more than the storytelling around Soryu’s wounded pathos. Even as early as Eva Ha, she implicitly sets out a goal to break out of her lonly she’ll and commune with others. This starts with a possible crush on Shinji, but as she sees Rei seemingly close in on that relationship gap with Shinji instead Shikinami sticks to her greater implied goal of breaking out of her lonely shell and getting to know others better. She not only conceded that potential cat fight to Rei, but also offers to take Rei’s place in the test piloting of Unit 03 so as not to interrupt her planned dinner with the Ikari family. Plus she began opening up to Misato just minutes before piloting Unit 03. I was so shocked at this whole new arc for Asuka upon first seeing it in theaters that I completely forgot what exactly the fate of Unit 03 was and the following Angel infestation somehow struck me completely unawares despite seeing the same basic thing happening to Toji in NGE. (This shock and forgetfulness would repeat itself for at least two or three more rewatches of the film before it wouldn’t catch me off guard anymore.)

So, yeah. Shikinami is nicer than Soryu, and it has stunned me more times than is normal. And I love it!
Last edited by FreakyFilmFan4ever on Wed Jan 16, 2019 9:43 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: What are aspects you actually like about Shikinami compared to Soryu as a character?

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Postby Melkor » Wed Jan 16, 2019 1:55 am

Do you think parts of Soryu's backstory involving her mother might end up being carried over to Shikinami?

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Re: What are aspects you actually like about Shikinami compared to Soryu as a character?

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Postby FreakyFilmFan4ever » Wed Jan 16, 2019 9:56 am

I really doubt that Shikinami has the same mother issues as Soryu. Everything surrounding Soryu, her distain for dolls, comparing Unit 02 to a doll, insisting that Unit 02 was a soulless creature, crying "Mama" in her sleep, the occasional flashbacks to Asuka's younger days with her deranged (and later dead) mother, was all leading up to her "Come to Jesus" moment where she realizes that her mother has been in Unit 02 the whole time.

None of that is in Shikinami's arc in the new films. She drearily looks back at her loneliness and decides to change and get closer to others. Her arc in NTE seems to be more of learning to unite with others, as opposed to driving them away. (This is why she ultimately drags Shinji along with her at the end of Eva Q, and doesn't resist Rei Q.) She never even mentions her mother. The only one to have expressed anything about a mother is Shinji.

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Re: What are aspects you actually like about Shikinami compared to Soryu as a character?

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Postby BlueBasilisk » Wed Jan 16, 2019 11:47 am

Does Shikinami even have parents? She tells Misato she's always been alone and was fine with that. Plus Misato seems to be the only person, adult or otherwise, that she initially wants to be around. Could you imagine Soryu trying to skip out on a field trip with Kaji because she'd rather spend time with Misato? No way! :lol:

But back to the point: Asuka never mentions any family and she says she says she's always been alone, which makes me think she's either an orphan or she was a test tube baby similar to Rei. Mari doesn't mention any kind of relatives or family either. She's just paired up with Kaji.

Shikinami is grouchier and less personable than Soryu on the surface. She had already decided Rei was Gendo's kiss-ass pet and Shinji was a daddy's boy before she even met either of them. Soryu at least tried to become friends with Rei out of convenience if nothing else. Shikinami wasn't crazy about Hikari either.

But her armor isn't as thick and what's underneath isn't as fragile and broken. She doesn't like Rei initially, but she makes peace with her after confronting her in the elevator. Asuka basically concedes defeat on Shinji, but she's fine after shedding a few tears. She even helps Rei's dinner plan! Some of that's on Rei too. Rei 2.22 is waaay more personable than OG Rei II. She also rebounds easily after losing Unit 02 twice.

Shiki isn't obsessed with being an adult so she's able to act more like a normal teenage girl. She really reminds me of Lal'c from Diebuster: cool and sour on the outside, sweet and lonely on the inside. It amuses me to no end that she doesn't give two shits about Kaji but ends up paired with Mari...who shares a whole lot of her character with Kaji. :lol:
Someday I hope that we'll be reunited if that is what's destined to be. Perhaps we'll discover that elusive bible. And then we will finally be free!

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Re: What are aspects you actually like about Shikinami compared to Soryu as a character?

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Postby Melkor » Wed Jan 16, 2019 3:01 pm

I think at least the fact that Asuka's mother was a researcher who worked on the EVAs might still be true, because when Fuyutsuki shows Shinji that photograph of Yui in 3.0, you can also see a woman that somewhat resembles Asuka in it, possibly her mother. It's interesting that you mention Asuka and Mari though, because apparently one of the ideas that was being thrown around for Mari when they were first creating her was for her to be some sort of rival to Asuka that would eventually usurp her. Part of this idea somewhat carried over with Mari taking Asuka's place in the Zeruel fight, and both Asuka and Mari having a shared imagery involving cats could be a way of presenting them as mirror versions of each other. In a sense, Mari was meant to be some sort of Anti-Asuka, which might be what Anno meant by saying he wanted to "destroy Eva" with Mari. After the 14 year time skip, it seems that Asuka has grown up mentally despite being the same age physically, so what if for Mari the opposite is true, her mindset still being that of a teenager, just like her physical appearance. This could be a way of differentiating the two characters, Asuka being someone who has grown up and matured as a person, while Mari refuses to grow up and remains immature. One evolves while the other remains stagnant.

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Postby BlueBasilisk » Thu Jan 17, 2019 8:40 am

Mari changes too. In 2.0, she's a lone wolf type like Asuka. It's most apparent during the fight with the 10th Angel where she goes into battle without any support from HQ because she shut her comms of. In the next movie she's more of a team player and is apparently subordinate to Asuka since Mari follows her orders. She's also a lot less reckless and less of a risk taker. 2.0 Mari would just go full Leeroy Jenkins and hurl herself at an Angel with brute force. 3.0 Mari fights from a distance as a sniper/sharpshooter and long range support. The only time she closes ranks on an enemy is when she intercepts Unit 13 mid-fall.

There's also that little ditty she sings about how great it is being with someone else. Mari sticks out from the other characters because she seems like she's comfortable being who she is and isn't weighed down by personal or existential angst.
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Re: What are aspects you actually like about Shikinami compared to Soryu as a character?

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Postby WunderBah » Thu Jan 17, 2019 4:34 pm

View Original PostFreakyFilmFan4ever wrote:Plus she began opening up to Misato just minutes before piloting Unit 03.


BlueBasilisk wrote:Plus Misato seems to be the only person, adult or otherwise, that she initially wants to be around. Could you imagine Soryu trying to skip out on a field trip with Kaji because she'd rather spend time with Misato? No way! :lol:


Can't believe I never noticed this. :lol: :lol: Yeah there was certainly a lot less conflict between the two compared to how Soryu handled it as NGE went further on, especially at one point during her flashback with Kaji where she admitted to not having much of a high impression for Misato in the first place.

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Re: What are aspects you actually like about Shikinami compared to Soryu as a character?

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Postby ShonHam » Wed Jan 23, 2019 10:26 am

It was mainly the new way in which she presented herself in regards to other people and piloting the Eva. It's not necessarily something I favour her over Soryu for, but like the rest of the Rebuild movies, it's an interesting new direction for the Asuka character.
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Re: What are aspects you actually like about Shikinami compared to Soryu as a character?

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Postby Settie » Wed Jan 30, 2019 10:28 pm

I'd say it's the fact that Shikinami isn't a social butterfly. It's the one thing that never made much sense to me regarding Soryu, given her background it's so weird how easily she is able to fake being social and open. Soryu didn't want to open herself and desired "adultness" above anything else and that combined with her accelerated childhood, meant that she wound't have regular or natural social interactions with people her own age, so how could she know how to be social since social skills are something that is learned and not really innate. Shikinami on the other hand is very much what you would expect from someone who didn't have a normal childhood, she's awkward around others and doesn't read cues off others as easily. It's something i like about Shikinami over Soryu, it makes her more "normal" in a way.


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