I feel like Shinji will withdraw from everyone in 1.0+3.0

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Re: I feel like Shinji will withdraw from everyone in 1.0+3.0

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Postby The Cruel » Mon Dec 10, 2018 12:09 am

^
Whether Shinji gains his self-respect doesn't change anything.

I don't think the Choker was the only thing Kats and Rits intended to punish with, when he is a war criminal and prisoner now.

Even if Shinji stayed at the Wunder, they would've taken further steps to make him suffer.

Matsushiro and N3I alone are enough reasons for Asuka and Kats to torture him and they don't care how honest his apologies are, because he is the very reminder of them failing at being friends and lovers.

But what Kats should know, the same as she failed at being Asukas and Shinjis guardian and preventing Shinji from starting N3I, the bigger she failed to ensure Shinjis imprisonment to prevent N4I, thanks to her arrogance of being only a commanding leader as worse as Gendo. She just represses her mistakes and shoves them to Shinji, so she doesn't have to admit them and gets away with that.

What Shinji 'll fear more than just his punishment and Kats, is of course Asuka herself, because she would punish Shinji herself. That she would 've died in Operation US if Shinji and Unit 1 wouldn't react on her, she didn't even cared that she was calling for him for being about to die. And she was only starring perplexed, for how the very person responsible for her suffering is saving her just now of all times. That doesn't hinder her to demonstrate him her pent up anger and sorrow as she hitted on bulletproof glass in front of his face, while he didn't thought of failing her back then. I don't think that this was the only thing Asuka wanted to do to punish Shinji.

That she's 28 now and Shinji being stuck in Unit 1 for 14 years, doesn't mean that they can see themselves as such. The Curse of Eva makes them perceive their aging and the passage of time as teens. Asuka gaining 14 years more of life and combat experience and she never stopped thinking about Shinji while he has none of that. They're both only Eva Pilots and Asuka being Shinjis guardian instead of Misato wouldn't fit her, because of herself being ready for combat 24/7. It would be more like she is tasked with being Shinjis prison officer, otherwise she would also be his commanding officer the same as Mari being under Asukas command. Asuka 'll never allow him to call her by her name and only addresses her as a captain at her rank, so she can distance herself from this failure of a relationship they have.

The idea of Asuka helping Shinji is totally unimaginable for the situation they are in. She won't care about his wellbeing, when she demands him to follow her orders.

She won't give him the satisfaction to take the easy way out. Dying is too easy for Shinji to happen, when Asuka intends to make him suffer.

And if Asuka does forgive him or even admit her feelings to him, Shinji would be too conflicted with his self-loathing, that he doesn't forgive himself and sees himself unworthy for being forgiven and loved. Even if he knows that she loves him and him to her, he doesn't feel like he deserves her and he only wants to be hated. The only way Shinji wants Asuka to express her love for him is to want her to torture and inflict pain to him.

Even if Kats forgives him, he wouldn't want her to forgive him too.

No matter what happens in FINAL, it doesn't mean that Shinji won't be hurt or that he hurts himself.

The only thing Shinji can do is to suffer, no matter how he accepts himself and lives on.

That Asuka hits on bulletproof glas in front of Shinjis face foreshadows the same as what happens between Frank Castle and Billy Russo  SPOILER: Show
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Last edited by The Cruel on Wed Dec 12, 2018 12:19 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: I feel like Shinji will withdraw from everyone in 1.0+3.0

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Postby Gendo'sPapa » Mon Dec 10, 2018 1:08 am

Your suffer, suffer, suffer, everyone is here on Earth to make other people suffer and no one can think or do anything to help another person unless it is to make them suffer schtick is really really old. Human interaction exists in millions of different forms and styles both good and bad. If all you see is everything leads to suffering that’s something you should really question yourself as to why you think that is the only option.

If you think Anno’s intention in the next film is to just have everyone punch Shinji in the face repeatedly then you have a poor understanding of what this series has always been about. Yes, there’s a lot of darkness but Eva in all it’s tellings the story has never been a morose crucification tale where all Shinji does is suffer and be punished for it. His characters have always in some form chosen life and never given in to complete suicidal dispair. And yes, life can be a hard for anyone - the narrative as setup doesn’t leave things set up for Shinji to have the happiest of lives - but trials and tribulations in life can always be surmounted with the right attitude and the smallest of support groups.

It’s an issue that probably deserves to be talked about elsewhere and it’s an issue that requires A LOT of genuine self-introspection offline but if all you see is Final leading to pain, misery, suffering & more suffering it might be best you just disengage from the final Rebuild entirely. It sounds very unhealthy.

It may sound like an empty platitude but it isn’t - There’s always hope. I’m certain Final, with the legwork having been done in 3.0, will directly deal with the very issue in some form or another.

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Re: I feel like Shinji will withdraw from everyone in 1.0+3.0

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Postby DarkBluePhoenix » Tue Dec 11, 2018 1:49 pm

View Original PostGendo'sPapa wrote:Your suffer, suffer, suffer, everyone is here on Earth to make other people suffer and no one can think or do anything to help another person unless it is to make them suffer schtick is really really old.

Well, someone was bound to say that eventually. :clap:

Gendo'sPapa wrote:It may sound like an empty platitude but it isn’t - There’s always hope. I’m certain Final, with the legwork having been done in 3.0, will directly deal with the very issue in some form or another.

You're right, it's not a platitude in this case. EVA, for all its psychological and giant mech aspects boils down to the basic premise that ultimately, despite everything evil in the world, hope survives and can blossom given a chance.

As fun as it is to joke that Shinji will be catatonic or otherwise reluctant to do anything, I doubt the movie will end up that way. Shinji will find some way to redeem himself and fix the issues he's caused, and undoubtedly it will involve some kind of instrumentality and introspection.
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Re: I feel like Shinji will withdraw from everyone in 1.0+3.0

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Postby The Cruel » Wed Dec 12, 2018 3:23 am

I took my time to think about it.

There is no apology for what I meant.

I won‘t forgive what happened in 3.0 and I don‘t care for a better ending in FINAL.

There is only anger.

The least I can do for now, is to stop speaking ill about that.
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Re: I feel like Shinji will withdraw from everyone in 1.0+3.0

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Postby pwhodges » Wed Dec 12, 2018 3:26 am

It's a story. How is talk of anger or forgiveness outside the story's universe appropriate or even relevant?
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Re: I feel like Shinji will withdraw from everyone in 1.0+3.0

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Postby The Cruel » Wed Dec 19, 2018 2:42 pm

View Original Postpwhodges wrote:It's a story. How is talk of anger or forgiveness outside the story's universe appropriate or even relevant?


Then let me ask this pwhodges:

Why shouldn't I be angry?

Why should I care and hope for what seems pointless and unforgiving?

All those years I only have my experience for Eva, my anger on 3.0 and my broken thoughts and fears about FINAL.

I don't know how I can help myself.

I'm truly scared about watching it.
Last edited by The Cruel on Wed Dec 19, 2018 3:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: I feel like Shinji will withdraw from everyone in 1.0+3.0

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Postby Arcadia's legacy » Wed Dec 19, 2018 2:50 pm

View Original PostThe Cruel wrote:Then let me ask this pwhodges:

Why shouldn't I be angry?

Because there a far more appropriate things in the world to be angry about, rather than just one movie?
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Re: I feel like Shinji will withdraw from everyone in 1.0+3.0

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Postby pwhodges » Wed Dec 19, 2018 3:03 pm

View Original PostThe Cruel wrote:All those years I only have my experience for Eva, my anger on 3.0 and my broken thoughts and fears about FINAL.

If you mean that literally, then...
I don't know how I can help myself.

...you need to find more serious help than a forum like this can provide.
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Re: I feel like Shinji will withdraw from everyone in 1.0+3.0

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Postby The Cruel » Wed Dec 19, 2018 3:06 pm

^

You know, I haven't dealt properly with hardships and I hindered myself to feel free to enjoy something more. I can only feel at peace when I see FINAL and be finally done with Eva and I should learn to truly value that experience.
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Re: I feel like Shinji will withdraw from everyone in 1.0+3.0

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Postby BlueBasilisk » Tue Jan 01, 2019 8:56 am

View Original PostGendo'sPapa wrote:If you think Anno’s intention in the next film is to just have everyone punch Shinji in the face repeatedly then you have a poor understanding of what this series has always been about. Yes, there’s a lot of darkness but Eva in all it’s tellings the story has never been a morose crucification tale where all Shinji does is suffer and be punished for it. His characters have always in some form chosen life and never given in to complete suicidal dispair. And yes, life can be a hard for anyone - the narrative as setup doesn’t leave things set up for Shinji to have the happiest of lives - but trials and tribulations in life can always be surmounted with the right attitude and the smallest of support groups.

[...]

It may sound like an empty platitude but it isn’t - There’s always hope. I’m certain Final, with the legwork having been done in 3.0, will directly deal with the very issue in some form or another.

Shinji's tribulations aren't even new among Anno's works. Right now he's going through the same arc Nadia did in the late stages of her own series. It's not 1:1 but it's really close. I'd argue Nadia's situation was even worse because the truths she was confronted with and her growing awareness of her own personal shortcomings and the horrible destiny that might be waiting for her drove her to attempt suicide. But ultimately? She was saved by her friends and the people that she had convinced herself must hate her guts for being such a terrible person. Because as it turns out, Nadia's assumptions were entirely wrong and her friends could cope with her issues as a person and help her get over them.

This kind of thing isn't uncommon at all in Anno's other works or the works of the other Gainax alumni who worked on Eva. Noriko gets put through hell in Gunbuster. So does Lal'C/Lar'C in Diebuster. But at the end of the day, after enduring hardship and suffering and loss, they earn a happy if somewhat bittersweet ending just like Nadia did. Hell, one of the reasons Enokido or Tsurumaki (I forget which) made Diebuster was to address something he thought Gunbuster's ending needed to make it a little happier.

People act like EoE's kill-em-all-maybe ending is representative of Anno's works but if anything it's an extreme outlier and it's still hopeful in its own way.
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Re: I feel like Shinji will withdraw from everyone in 1.0+3.0

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Postby Giji Shinka » Sat Jan 05, 2019 3:40 pm

Yes, he will withdraw from everyone, but by the end he's likely more mentally stable (I don't know what will make this change occur in him).
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Re: I feel like Shinji will withdraw from everyone in 1.0+3.0

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Postby Ryuichi » Sun Jan 13, 2019 5:06 am

At this point I have no idea what will happen.
Both the Series and EoE ended basically the same way- Shinji said no to the instrumentality project, and chose the world with people of individuals, and the pain with it.So ....EoE was a happy ending.

So will we get the same ending? Or a darker more pessimistic one this time?
The way the relationships, with both Rei and his father felt better in this rebuild series, I thought Anno might go in a more positive way, to build up for a less f/cked up last movie. But now I'm not sure, will it be an even darker EoE kind of movie? Or will Shinji just...kill himself..? I mean at this point , and knowing Anno mindfuckery, seriously anything can happen.

Also, just thought about something...while I know the "sequel" theory is not favoured anymore, could Kaworu's constant hints at "this time you'Ll get happy" thing is a breaking the fourth wall thing, directed towards us?

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Re: I feel like Shinji will withdraw from everyone in 1.0+3.0

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Postby pwhodges » Sun Jan 13, 2019 5:26 am

View Original PostRyuichi wrote:Or will Shinji just...kill himself..?

Why would he do that, the ultimate running away?

Do you seriously imagine for a moment that the conclusion of Anno's quest over the past decades would be to show suicide as the answer? That he would display such an extraordinary level of irresponsibility?
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Re: I feel like Shinji will withdraw from everyone in 1.0+3.0

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Postby Ryuichi » Sun Jan 13, 2019 6:27 am

View Original Postpwhodges wrote:Why would he do that, the ultimate running away?

Do you seriously imagine for a moment that the conclusion of Anno's quest over the past decades would be to show suicide as the answer? That he would display such an extraordinary level of irresponsibility?


No, in all seriousness, ever since the first rebuild movie, I feel like he will finally make Shinji find himself and have a kinda happy ending, in a bit less mindfuckery way than in EoE.

However, we know he ...ended up in a really depressed shape after working on Q, so I don't know if we will get a clear answer. I keep seeing people mentioning how strongly he is against "escapism", makes me wonder how satisfactory the ending will be.
And after all, it took him 15 years to get through these 4 movies. Wonder how much his planes had changed over the years.


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