I feel like Shinji will withdraw from everyone in 1.0+3.0

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I feel like Shinji will withdraw from everyone in 1.0+3.0

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Postby AdamMalkovitch » Mon May 28, 2018 1:49 pm

Shinji was already pretty fragile and withdrawn before, but after trying to get close to others and it always going horrifically wrong, plus his interactions with two people in particular causing immense harm to both the entire planet and his personal psyche, I believe Shinji will become repressed and antisocial in FINAL. He'll likely push away or ignore others no matter what. Even if someone he becomes close to is endangered, he will do nothing because of what happened when he tried to save Rei. If he does eventually pilot (which is very unlikely in the first place), he'll likely be as passive and out-of-the-way as possible to avoid interfering or interacting with anything. If even this fails him, I don't think it's too far fetched to believe he'll completely lose his mind and voluntarily activate beast mode in hopes he can destroy everything so that no one will feel pain again, a much more literal and physical approach to what he did in End of Evangelion.
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Re: I feel like Shinji will withdraw from everyone in 1.0+3.0

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Postby Lennik » Thu May 31, 2018 9:20 pm

I think this depends on what Wille does with him. If Misato gives him nothing to do except wander the ship and try not to break anything, I assume he'll spend a lot of time making himself as scarce as possible and speaking to no one unless they initiate conversation with him. In that case, I think his guilt and shame will be debilitating; he'll keep his head down and try to go unnoticed, because he thinks that every time anyone on the crew looks at him, they'll be reminded of everything they've lost because of him. If this is what happens, however, it will be very hard for him to snap out of it.

However, that's dependent on Misato not giving him anything to do.

She could very well put him in some position on the ship where his talents, which are still considerable, could be useful. This could be anything from putting him in the kitchens and having him cook for the crew to putting him in an Eva on standby in case of emergency. I imagine his demeanor will be the same (quiet and brooding, because at this point he'll probably feel guilty just for smiling) but still active in doing his part to save the world.

Recently I've been thinking a lot about Guardians of the Galaxy and how important the walkman is to the characters and theme, and it reminded me of Shinji's SDAT. I couldn't help but imagine the cooking staff on the Wunder having a stereo but no music to listen to (the post-Third Impact world is rough) and Shinji bringing his cassette along, and when combined with his mastery at cooking, Shinji turns the mess hall of the Wunder into the coolest hangout on the ship. This would not only give him a way to contribute in a meaningful way toward morale, but also a way for him to bond with the crew and re-form some human connections.

I'm only half joking. I don't think Shinji's been listening to 70s classic rock on that SDAT, but a man can dream.

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Re: I feel like Shinji will withdraw from everyone in 1.0+3.0

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Postby AdamMalkovitch » Fri Jun 01, 2018 12:16 pm

View Original PostLennik wrote:I think this depends on what Wille does with him. If Misato gives him nothing to do except wander the ship and try not to break anything, I assume he'll spend a lot of time making himself as scarce as possible and speaking to no one unless they initiate conversation with him. In that case, I think his guilt and shame will be debilitating; he'll keep his head down and try to go unnoticed, because he thinks that every time anyone on the crew looks at him, they'll be reminded of everything they've lost because of him. If this is what happens, however, it will be very hard for him to snap out of it.

However, that's dependent on Misato not giving him anything to do.

She could very well put him in some position on the ship where his talents, which are still considerable, could be useful. This could be anything from putting him in the kitchens and having him cook for the crew to putting him in an Eva on standby in case of emergency. I imagine his demeanor will be the same (quiet and brooding, because at this point he'll probably feel guilty just for smiling) but still active in doing his part to save the world.

Recently I've been thinking a lot about Guardians of the Galaxy and how important the walkman is to the characters and theme, and it reminded me of Shinji's SDAT. I couldn't help but imagine the cooking staff on the Wunder having a stereo but no music to listen to (the post-Third Impact world is rough) and Shinji bringing his cassette along, and when combined with his mastery at cooking, Shinji turns the mess hall of the Wunder into the coolest hangout on the ship. This would not only give him a way to contribute in a meaningful way toward morale, but also a way for him to bond with the crew and re-form some human connections.

I'm only half joking. I don't think Shinji's been listening to 70s classic rock on that SDAT, but a man can dream.

I hate to say this, but that seems far too optimistic for this new world. From what we've seen, everyone at WILLE is simply focused on survival, striking back at the remains of NERV when they can. Because of this, I predict Shinji will be locked up, not even allowed to roam, as to keep him from doing anything at all. It would actually likely be more merciful to kill him than detain and monitor him as heavily as I foresee. Misato and Ritsuko will take all possible precautions to keep Shinji from doing anything. Sure, when he returns Misato will likely break down after thinking she killed him (there's no way the crew wouldn't be able to tell that the choker didn't perform it's directive), and no one was able to report to WILLE that Shinji lived, as Mari simply ejected his plug and vanished, and Asuka lost communication with WILLE after ejecting her own plug from Unit 02 Dash, but I doubt Misato will allow Shinji any freedom at all.
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Re: I feel like Shinji will withdraw from everyone in 1.0+3.0

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Postby one-eyed » Thu Aug 23, 2018 12:03 pm

Honestly, it's the best thing that can happen to the poor bastard. He must find the truth for himself and as far as possible from Misato, Asuka, and Co. IF Hideaki Anno has the least decency as a storyteller, in the end, Shinji and Wille will never meet again. Any bond between them died and the bridges are ashes.

I do not want reconciliation, I just want truth and resolution. I will never have it because Evangelion is a popularity contest and Shinji is just a punching bag for Anno to dump his frustrations.

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Re: I feel like Shinji will withdraw from everyone in 1.0+3.0

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Postby pwhodges » Thu Aug 23, 2018 1:42 pm

Never meet Wille again? But Asuka's Wille, and she's dragging him along by the arm, so he's not easily getting away.
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Re: I feel like Shinji will withdraw from everyone in 1.0+3.0

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Postby one-eyed » Fri Aug 24, 2018 7:16 am

I hope they separate ways, like in the video "Until you come to me." While Shinji is with Asuka and Wille he will not get answers because Anno will turn it into a popularity contest, and it is obvious that Shinji will lose. Lose horribly!

In Q, I expected answers about what happened in Ha. How did Eva wake up? Gendo really removed the security locks of Eva 01? Was Kaworu really aware of the plan with that "Promised Time" story? What do I get? Misato, Asuka, and Cia take that childlike humiliation antics with parades of prisoners and cold treatment. It's going to be even worse now.

When Shinji "betrayed" Kaworu by blocking him, my first thought was: how he knew how to do it? How can the co-pilot block main pilot? I can understand that Kaworu could block Shinji, but not the opposite (makes sense to me, after all, Kaworu is manipulating Shinji and Asuka could have convinced him to give up simply by talking to him). Why did not Kaworu stop him? The answer: Kaworu was too sick to push a single button and so did nothing. He would not dare deny Shinji anything!

Less than a minute later Kaworu easily regains control, makes his Messianic speech, and dies. Kaworu's death was crucial for me to realize that the answer to all my questions is simply: Who cares? The important thing is that Shinji is the one to blame for everything, how and why are irrelevant.

The final balance of Q?

Gendo confirmed his omnipotence, omniscience and his divine right to ascend from King of Lilins to God Emperor of the Gods!

Wille are tragic heroes fighting the infinite power of the Supreme Being of the Universe: Gendo, the Divine!

Even Fuyutsuki had his chance to shine it! He euthanized Seele and helped manipulate Shinji.

And Shinji is below Seele! The cultists had a sweet, quiet death believing that their dreams would be fulfilled (and maybe they are still, who knows?). Shinji nor the death blow, will be thrown into some hole and forgotten, mulling over his absolutely impossible story of misery and useless suffering.

I know I'm being a grumpy old man, but this is Evangelion, man! Gendo, Misato, Kaworu, Fuyutsuki, Marisuka, etc. are the real protagonists. They sell merchandising. They are magazine covers. They are what are important. Shinji is nothing, at best he is a simple plot device and a sin eater. He exists for the glorification of Gendo's genius, to receive hatred, to be manipulated and cursed. Shinji was this in EoE and Q, he will be again 1.0 + 3.0.

I can no longer immerse myself in the story anymore and my voluntary suspension of disbelief has already been exceeded. I want the truth and answers and I will not get it in a contest of popularity competing with the Mari’s Melons swaying in front of me, the Rei’s nudity and probably the officialisation of Marisuka.

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Re: I feel like Shinji will withdraw from everyone in 1.0+3.0

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Postby Arcadia's legacy » Fri Aug 24, 2018 8:29 am

View Original Postone-eyed wrote:Shinji is nothing, at best he is a simple plot device and a sin eater. He exists for the glorification of Gendo's genius, to receive hatred, to be manipulated and cursed. Shinji was this in EoE and Q, he will be again 1.0 + 3.0.

And if your expectations are defied again and he turns out not to be?
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Re: I feel like Shinji will withdraw from everyone in 1.0+3.0

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Postby one-eyed » Fri Aug 24, 2018 10:15 am

There is no shame in any analysis of a work of fiction because any interpretation is valid. I have as much right as do the Gendofags and Shinji haters to complain and defend my points of view.

If I'm wrong I'd bow my head and acknowledge it, but I find it impossible for the reasons I've already said. Anno is repeating himself and insanity is doing the same thing and expecting a different result.

P.S.: I did not understand the "again".

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Re: I feel like Shinji will withdraw from everyone in 1.0+3.0

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Postby Arcadia's legacy » Fri Aug 24, 2018 10:35 am

View Original Postone-eyed wrote:P.S.: I did not understand the "again".

Was referring to....
In Q, I expected answers about what happened in Ha. How did Eva wake up? Gendo really removed the security locks of Eva 01? Was Kaworu really aware of the plan with that "Promised Time" story? What do I get? Misato, Asuka, and Cia take that childlike humiliation antics with parades of prisoners and cold treatment. It's going to be even worse now.
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Postby one-eyed » Sun Aug 26, 2018 4:17 pm

Got it. I usually make mistakes with positive predictions. Unfortunately, the negative predictions I usually hit.

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Postby DarkBluePhoenix » Wed Sep 05, 2018 5:23 am

View Original PostLennik wrote:I'm only half joking. I don't think Shinji's been listening to 70s classic rock on that SDAT, but a man can dream.

Nope just Linkin Park :hitthetable:
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Postby Lennik » Tue Sep 11, 2018 7:28 pm

View Original PostDarkBluePhoenix wrote:Nope just Linkin Park :hitthetable:


:lol: As big of a part as Linkin Park played in my formative years, "Numb" and "In The End" are not gonna turn the mess hall into the coolest hangout on the Wunder, I'm sorry to say.

But Redbone's "Come and Get Your Love"? The sky's the limit.

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Re: I feel like Shinji will withdraw from everyone in 1.0+3.0

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Postby Super Knight » Mon Nov 19, 2018 9:56 am

I believe Shinji's fate will be similar to how it was with Misato after 2nd Impact. He will be kept in a isolation room and will be under observation at whatever Lilin settlement the trio are going. He will be treated of physical injuries he received inside Unit-13 but like Misato, his psychological wounds will take a very long time to heal.

Misato was mute for two years due to whole trauma of losing her dad and witnessing the 2nd Impact. Shinji's mental state was already in terrible shape before getting into Unit-13 and now he ended up in same position as her or probably worse. Witnesses Kawrou's head getting blow off who sacrificed himself so Shinji could live and all while surviving in the center of 4th Impact.

I just don't see Shinji recovering in even months time. He was already antisocial and used his SDAT player to withdraw himself from the world he hated. At the end of 3.0, he has no person alive to trust anymore and that SDAT player was either got left behind or if Rei picked it up, it might have broken again. Personally I don't think even that SDAT player will offer him any comfort at all since he had already thrown that away till Kawrou came along and took the collar off him, giving him some hope. In 1.0+3.0, I believe history will repeat itself and Shinji will now become mentally mute or what that condition's name is.

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Re: I feel like Shinji will withdraw from everyone in 1.0+3.0

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Postby pwhodges » Mon Nov 19, 2018 11:06 am

Remember that however bad Shinji's state, it will be something that can be resolved within the span of this one film.
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Postby DarkBluePhoenix » Thu Nov 22, 2018 12:00 am

^ It'll have to be, otherwise it'll be a very silent movie. Though if he's comatose the whole time, he won't have the capacity to complain about anything :lol:
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Postby BlueBasilisk » Sun Dec 02, 2018 1:26 pm

I don't think he will. Or rather, he can't. Shinji has nowhere left to run and hide and nobody to mollycoddle him. Nerv left him behind, Unit 01 rejects him, Tokyo 3 is gone, and he doesn't have his SDAT.

What does that mean? It means whether or not he wants to he's going to confront the world and whatever truths it holds for him. The last scene of 3.0 is Asuka literally dragging him out of the shell he was hiding in to sulk after things fell apart. It's the same thing he did at NERV whenever confronted with something unpleasant. He holed up in his room and blocked the world out of his mind and his heart with the SDAT (that's how he described it to Rei previously). And Kaworu enabled this behavior when he fixed it for Shinji.

It also means Shinji is going to need to self actualize and find his purpose and his own happiness that isn't reliant on others. He keeps externalizing these things on other things or people: Eva, Misato, his father, Rei, Kaworu. What did he do at Nerv with nothing to do and no Eva to pilot? He wandered around aimlessly and then clung to Kaworu and what he thought was Rei. He needs to finally take Kaji's advice and find his own internal motivation just for himself. Or like Kaworu said, his own happiness.

He's right where he needs to be and he's with the person who won't lie to him to help him pull his head out of the sand.
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Re: I feel like Shinji will withdraw from everyone in 1.0+3.0

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Postby LightDragonman » Wed Dec 05, 2018 4:49 am

Are we sure that the SDAT represents him withdrawing from everything like in the original series? Cause when he threw it away in 2.0, he was very much shown to be at his lowest point, and ironically withdrew himself from everything soon afterwards.

If anything, the player seems to more represent something else. Plus, I also don't exactly see the whole idea that Asuka is the sole person who will save him in the end, especially given how Rei Q looks down at the discarded SDAT player with a sad look in her eyes, not unlike when the original Rei recovered it in 2.0.
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Postby BlueBasilisk » Wed Dec 05, 2018 11:58 am

LightDragonman wrote:Are we sure that the SDAT represents him withdrawing from everything like in the original series? Cause when he threw it away in 2.0, he was very much shown to be at his lowest point, and ironically withdrew himself from everything soon afterwards.

If anything, the player seems to more represent something else. Plus, I also don't exactly see the whole idea that Asuka is the sole person who will save him in the end, especially given how Rei Q looks down at the discarded SDAT player with a sad look in her eyes, not unlike when the original Rei recovered it in 2.0.

Yeah. In one of the train sequences, Rei asks Shinji why he always wears it and that's what he tells her. I believe it's when he blacks out after stomping on HQ.

The SDAT has a few meanings. In that same scene we find out it used to belong to Gendo and Shinji took it after it was left behind, so it also represents a link between the two of them. When Shinji gets pissed off at Gendo and leaves Nerv, he throws it in the trash. When he screams and throws it at the wall, isn't that right after he has his talk with Fuyutsuki and finds out Gendo has planned everything?

It also becomes linked to Rei. She saves it from the trash and has it with her on board Unit 00 when she's devoured. To Shinji it's proof that he did save her because she had it with her and it showed up in Unit 01's plug after he was recovered. Then he finds out....well, he didn't quite do that.

There's a bit of an sinister undertone to the way it links Shinji, Gendo and Rei since we know he's pushing them together and using Rei to manipulate Shinji into following his bidding. We'll have to wait and see what ReiQ does with it. It shouldn't mean much of anything to her outside of being one of Shinji's possessions. She's clearly hurt by his rejection so there's some kind of relationship developing there.

I don't think Asuka will be the only one to save him. Ultimately I think he'll have to save himself. I do think that Asuka's the best person to be with him right now because she's blunt enough to give him the hard truth and she has no ulterior motives or designs for him like Gendo or Kaworu or Fuyutsuki and she doesn't project herself onto him like Misato did/does. Asuka's issues with him are based around his attitude and being alone with her is a good opportunity to address the problem between them, which in turn gives Shinji more stable footing by having a familiar case in his corner.
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Postby LightDragonman » Wed Dec 05, 2018 12:42 pm

Man, being someone who was really invested in seeing Shinji and Rei's relationship develop in this series, be it romantic or sibling, I hate the fact that Anno decided to frame it in such a negative light in 3.0 simply because he sees it as a metaphor for escapism, and we all know how much he despises escapism.

It also really starts to show his blatant favoritism towards Asuka given how she now is apparently the perfect person to help him out with no real flaws or undermining motives or projections regarding him. Nope, she is the absolutely best and most flawless person for Shinji to be with and talk to right now, and will probably end up being with him in the end, solely because she represents reality according to Anno. Who needs things like development or chemistry, when you've got symbolism.

Yeah, I'm a bit bitter.
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Postby BlueBasilisk » Wed Dec 05, 2018 4:31 pm

You realize we're told midway through 1.0 that Gendo and Yui set all of this up, right? Before Shinji and Rei even properly bond and before Asuka ever enters the picture?

And I'm not sure how you can possibly think Anno is making Rei look bad when Rebuild Rei is a squeaky clean nice girl who's learning to be in touch with her feelings and gets along with pretty much everyone including Asuka. She's like Kaworu, except without any of his flaws or sinister motivations. All the negative aspects of her relationship with Shinji are completely external from Rei herself. It's either shit Gendo has done or Shinji's ignorance and tendency toward extremism, which is a flaw in his character that has driven wedges in all of his other relationships and actually got Kaworu killed.

Even in 3.0 there's no shade thrown at Rei personally. Nobody speaks ill of her, the movie doesn't suddenly reveal that she was actually manipulating Shinji all along or anything like that. What it does is bring the bizarre and uncomfortable circumstances of her existence into light where Shinji can see them (just like Ep.23), but they'd still be the same whether he knew of them or not. This is a good thing for their relationship in the long-run because Rei has some pretty big secrets in her closet that are immediately relevant to Shinji but she understandably wasn't being forthcoming with those. I imagine she was ordered to keep that stuff 100% secret. Shinji still doesn't know about her connection to Lilith, but that'll likely come soon too.

If he's pursuing a relationship with Rei, be it a sibling relationship or a romantic one, he does need to know these things so he can have a more complete grasp of who and what Rei is. She's the cute, quiet girl who goes to school and pilots Eva with him. She is also, in some way or other, an ancient being who gave birth to life on Earth, one in a series of clones, and a replica of Shinji's mom. If he can only accept the former but can't come to terms with the latter, then any relationship they have is doomed to implode eventually because it's not built on solid foundations. But if he can accept all of Rei they're pretty well set.

To Shinji's credit, when he has his little meltdown at Rei Q, it's the fact that she's not his Rei that seems to put him off the most. He doesn't make a fuss about all the rest.

What blatant favoritism? The favoritism that has her spending all her screen time with Shinji in 3.0 pissed off at him and trying to physically assault him? Or in 2.0 where...she spends a good chunk of her screen time berating or physically attacking him, and him not even being aware that she has a crush on him because she friendzones herself after like two scenes to play wingman for Rei? And then getting written out for a good chunk of that movie?

The movies sure as hell do not portray her as flawless. She's an antisocial short-tempered jerk with a superiority complex, few friends, and little patience for Shinji's antics. I don't know if you can really even call Shinji and Asuka friends in the movies, and he hasn't shown even a hint of returning her old crush as far as I can see. Hell, I think Asuka has better chemistry with Rei than with him.

Which is what makes Asuka a good person for him to be stranded with in that desert. He needs to know the truth of things so he can stop fucking up and start healing. She knows the truth, has no qualms about reading him the riot act and has no reason to worry about protecting his feelings if the truth is harsh because they're not on great terms, but she's a familiar face that Shinji can kinda get on with. Rei Q is just as in the dark as he is and he rejected her when he found out she's not the same person as his Rei (and he was really made to look like a cruel ass for doing that), he barely knows Mari, and if Rei was there it'd be an entirely different movie.

Edit: Personally, I don't see anything romantic happening between Shinji and Asuka. Partly because of the above and partly because she's so much older than him now. What I think is going to happen is that Asuka will take over Misato's old role for Shinji and the new Rei, and Shinji's romantic options will be Rei, Kaworu or staying single.
Someday I hope that we'll be reunited if that is what's destined to be. Perhaps we'll discover that elusive bible. And then we will finally be free!


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